Which, sadly, says everything that needs to be said about your "unmarriage". ((UKG))
What does your H contribute to the M, and, objectively, what would your life look like without him, assuming you are alone with the kids.
Laura, TT is not too surprising, it's a lot to remember. I'd say as long as it's not -- Oh, hey, really there were 12 more people, you're OK.
I can't even keep up with the rest, y'all have a great day.
Do the BS’s think the WS’s deserve the WS’s Love Language filled by you?
I honestly believe everyone should have the best possible life! We only have one life… You are going to have to make your own life the best you can.
OK savedbygrace, so you made a terrible decision. Yep, that is about as bad as it gets. It has brought much pain hasn't it. You will never be able to go back. You won’t even be able to control what your H does. It will be up to your H to decide to change, accept, pardon you… You can’t control his choices. You can only control yourself and love him like a true partner is supposed to love or not.
Maybe you should not be so quick to dismiss the
“We had an MC (which was from a religious group) who eventually told us (after around 5 sessions) that we’re going to be ok… “ BS – learn to forgive her, she was stupid.” “WS – learn to forgive yourself, and don’t do it again” OMG… what kind of advice was that?”
My W has taught me an important lesson in life. People are not loving and loyal all the time. But things change. And this too.. Pain is part of life. I always saw it.. but at 47 it was the first I felt it!
My advice...People have a way of forgiving... I never thought I could... Just be a good loving woman to your H and things will fall into place...
[This message edited by trynhard at 12:20 PM, November 9th (Tuesday)]
What are the components that make up a marriage?
[This message edited by trynhard at 12:08 PM, November 9th (Tuesday)]
- A mutually satisfying Sex life
Hi Tryn, glad to see you post.
FWIW, my/our sex life is much better than it was pre-Dday. My WH always held some part of himself back. He doesn't do that anymore. It's great. He's sharing and feeling instead of performing.
What does your H contribute to the M, and, objectively, what would your life look like without him, assuming you are alone with the kids
M3: At present, he contributes financially, he watches the kids when I'm at work (depending on his schedule), he fixes stuff around the house, he helps discipline the children, he plays with the little kids, he provides companionship to me. And, of course, he will have sex with me whenever.
So - pretty good.
If we were to physically separate, he says he still would come by the house every day, and I know he would find the bare minimum place for a place to stay, so there would probably be no every other weekend/typical kind of visitation stuff. All visitation would probably take place at the house - maybe I could go out and do some errands or something, but other than that, Ithink my day to day life would change very little - except I couldn't expect the same financial contribution and I would lose the companionship, etc.
Yes, on paper, I get it. It makes sense to stay. That is why I'm staying. No mention of love tho. That's a big cost - to stay in a relationship without it.
Anyway - sorry I can't comment on any other posts at the moment - I'm up to my ass in alligators.
And, I have an appointment with a new therapist this week, so maybe I can find my way out of this funk.
ETA: Honest: I don't blame myself for the A. Now that I hear more from him - I don't think it would've mattered if I screamed less, had sex more, etc. He seems to have a completely different outlook on life than me.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 1:26 PM, November 9th (Tuesday)]
I'm still battling the "should've/could've" phase. Like could I have done things differently to prevent it? I'm still working on that... I was put in an impossible situation, trying to balance so much, tying to give to everyone so much, that it was me who lost in the end.
I'm really having a bad time these past few days. WH taking OW to this religious pilgrimage just shouts out to me that he is committed to her. He is virtually saying to the world and God, that she is his true wife.
I was telling him yesterday that I cannot put up with this anymore, and his response was he would still support me. (financially)
I gave all of myself and was settling for crumbs and was happy with that. Now the crumbs are taken away. I allowed myself to let him be my emotional support while I went on with everything I did. That is not his fault that I did that. I have to learn to be my own emotional support...... I was too busy being everyone else's.
Hugs to everyone.
I'll try to come back later and respond to posts. I'm just trying to make it through the day without having a melt down.
First, a clarification: nothing is an acceptable reason for continuing an affair.
I think the real issue is that the BS will not understand how it is the WS can proclaim to have loved the BS, how he/she could look the BS in the eye and lie over and over again without feeling guilt or without stopping the A. For me, I know I am looking for some reason to understand that despite everything my H has done, that he can be trusted now. That he won't betray me again.
Because, to be honest, my feeling is that showing your capablity to live a double life for this period of time really appears to be somewhat pathological or at the very least raises some serious concerns about the WS character. So, while it's I guess interesting in the respect that maybe the WS didn't abandon all feeling for the BS, I don't know that it alleviates all of the other concerns.
Hope that made sense.
WH taking OW to this religious pilgrimage just shouts out to me that he is committed to her. He is virtually saying to the world and God, that she is his true wife.
I met current WH when I was divorcing xWH. I told WH I wasn't ready for a relationship, but ended up going out to eat with him. From there, he called several times a week, and we talked for hours about all kinds of subjects. I often told him my problems with xWH, school, kids, etc.
As time went on, we got closer and fell in love.
WH knew how much xWH's betrayal killed me. When WH wanted to marry me, I was hesitant about starting a new family. WH lied to me about his religion. He told me that they could have more than one wife under very strict circumstances and that the first wife had to give permission. This was a blantant lie I didn't find out until after we were married a couple of years and had our first son. I went crazy and he promised on his life that he would not do that to me. I made him promise that if he ever wanted to do that, tell me first, we will try to fix our marriage and if it didn't work, we'll leave each other and he would be free to do whatever he wanted.
I was so worried about this for our whole married life. I was constantly on his case about this, having him reassure me and promising over and over he would never do this to me. When I saw red flags, I was at him, he kept reassuring me that he wouldn't ever do that to me.
I told him over and over and over that if he ever did this, it would KILL ME. I told him that I could survive a divorce, I could survive without him, but if cheated and betrayed me, IT would KILL ME.
I would say I did this at least once a month for years, down to once every few months FOR OUR WHOLE MARRIAGE.
I saw evidence he had done this, he gaslighted, his family gaslighted, I believed him. I really believed he loved me. When I was overseas, he treated me like a queen, yet the whole time he was with her, having OC's, talking to her all the time.
This is why I feel so devastated. You tell someone over and over ad nauseum that this would be the worst thing that could be done to me (leave me first!!!!!)
My God, it's like my cousin is highly allergic to peanuts and me serving her a peanut butter and jelly sandwich followed by Reese's peanut butter cups!!!
This is what I don't understand. The one thing I said would kill me, he does.
In a very stupid way, I wish I would find out there was OW#3, because it would help me really feel it's not me, it's not OW, but it's him.
Sorry for the vent. Thank you all.
Tryn’. Oh my. When I read that I remember I thought we had that. But then I guess we all did. But they are goals to work towards. While I see that I give less value now to everything in my list, your points are more encompassing. Okay, it’s late and I don’t think I’m making sense. Or maybe my marriage doesn’t make sense.
WH taking OW to this religious pilgrimage just shouts out to me that he is committed to her.
and his response was he would still support me. (financially)
I wish I would find out there was OW#3,
eta - I used the word "saying". It ain't. It's just a quote from a rather over inflated egotistical man.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 4:47 PM, November 9th (Tuesday)]
I don't have any great words of wisdom but I feel for you today/tonight. Please, please try and see that the problem is with your
WH not with you. I agree that he has been/continues to try and manipulate you. Today...start putting $$ aside. You cannot trust this man as far as you can throw him.
I'm off work today. Am quite sick. But so long as I don't move around too much I am ok to sit at the computer and type. H is at work so ideal time for me as he's not "hovering".
I had a major swearing, screaming, abusing, hitting, and vicious meltdown 3 nights ago. I let out a lot of things I had bottled up for years. It was cruel and caused him enormous pain but I'm not sorry. He needed to hear the things I said and I needed to say them. Last night we had a quiter more civilised talk.
Some things came out (from both of us) which I really finally think have given me a true picture of where we were all those years. I'll try to sum it up as best I can.
1. My husband did not see us as a family. He denies this but I know it is true. Deep down I think I always knew. There was no US. There was him and there was HIS family. We were something that belonged to him. I used to get really upset when he was talking to people and I'd hear him say my house, my farm, my horses, my children, my son, I have done.., I have (this or that) .I used to point this out to him and say ”Why can’t you say our and we” and he'd brush off my comments. I now realise that was a true reflection of WHERE HE WAS AT. Sadly he was actually very proud of us – his beautiful and intelligent wife and children and his lovely home. He was proud because they were HIS. It reflected well on him. He didn’t love us for who we were. He liked the fact that we made him look good.
2. He was never available to do things with me or the children. He was always too busy. Then when HE wanted our time or attention if he didn't get it immediately he'd be sulky. It was always about him. He could talk for hours to other people, but never had the time to talk to us – unless it was about his interests. He never wanted to listen.
3. The kids detached as they grew up and once they were older and he wanted to be with them they weren't interested. They loved me because I always put them before me, had time for them, really listened and was interested in them. He wasn’t. I guess it’s a little like the old Cat Stevens song, “Father and Son” I think it was called. I used to try to warn him this would happen years ago but he never listened.
4. Things gradually worsened in our relationship. I felt I was a convenience to him - he couldn't be bothered talking to me or doing things with me but was happy for me to work hard as a teacher, look after the kids, the house, the shopping, the cooking, the bills, help him with the horses (while he abused me if I did anything wrong), carry all the worry when things went wrong for us financially and screw me when he felt like it. I felt used in every way including in the bedroom. For this reason I began to enjoy sex less.
5. I used to so often beg him to “try” in our relationship. I sometimes thought of leaving him but didn’t want my children to grow up without a father. I tried so hard to please him with nice meals, by helping him listening to him etc but nothing I did seemed to work. I eventually started to think I’ll put up with him until they leave home and then I’ll go. One night I even said “You make me so miserable. Why do you treat me like this? I always try to make you happy. Why are you so nasty? One day I’ll be on my death bed and ask you why you’ve given me such a miserable life. How will you feel then? Please why can’t you try?”
6. He had an affair in 1994 (which later became an EA until dday) which unbeknownst to me caused me to get chlamydia. I had no symptoms at the time and it was never diagnosed. However, I found out after dday. It led to Pelvic Inflammatory Disease and chronic pelvic pain over a period of many years. Unfortunately none of the docs picked it up. I stupidly refused a test for STDs twice. I stated that there was no way either my H or I had cheated. I experienced deep pain when we had sex which of course caused me to not enjoy it. It also led to chronic cystitis. When I refused sex sometimes because of I had cystitis and rarely enjoyed it because of the PID he became even crankier.
7. I modelled my life and my behaviour on my mother. She was totally devoted to her family. I always believed that if my husband and children were happy that I would be happy. I didn’t have any interests or friends outside the family except for work which I must say gave me a lot of satisfaction. As a teacher for 32 yrs I have touched the lives of a lot of young people and am proud of this.
8. I earn almost twice as much as my H but never had lots of nice clothes, could count on one hand the number of times we went to a restaurant during our marriage and our “family” holidays were always with his family because that’s what he wanted. He never bought me a card for my birthday or anniversary – always bought chocolates and then ate them himself. I’m not whingeing here – I didn’t really care much at the time. Just trying to draw a picture.
9. But I now realise there was no ME. There was the wife, the mother and the teacher. I believed if I did all these well enough I would be happy because my husband, kids and students would be happy. I honestly believed I didn’t NEED anything else.
10. So where am I? I now know that I had a H who simply did not love me. He thought he did and would have been horrified if someone had claimed he didn’t. I don’t believe he understood what love was. For me or the children. Because of his selfishness and his lack of love for us he screwed other women for 16 years.
11. Funnily enough I actually think he now realises that he DOES love me. Over the last few months after a few foggy weeks he has tried really hard. He has made lots of mistakes (including the fucking ducks) but after our talk last night I now believe he is truly remorseful. He said so many times that he was sorry, would do anything to go back and change things, he was stupid and he was selfish. I believe he meant this. He has not tried to excuse himself in any way. He says he didn’t realise how much he loved me until he thought he would lose me.
12. So what about me? I’m actually feeling quite peaceful this morning. It may only be a high on the rollercoaster but I don’t think so. I think I now know where I’m at:
a. I hate the man my husband was. I do and always will. I am not interested in him anymore. I now feel I’m not even interested in what he did.
b. I could love the man I am seeing now - the man he wants to be. If this is who he really is now – and I believe it is, then we can be happy together. I will always carry the pain and the anger but will no longer take it out on this man. I will feel it towards the man I hate but cannot take it out on this man because he is someone else.
c. I need a life. I need to do what I want. I need to find a way to meet everyone’s needs INCLUDING MY OWN. I need experiences and events which give me pleasure which have nothing to do with my family. I would love to travel but some of this travel needs to be without them. It needs to be with friends or even strangers. If any of my family are with me I will be too concerned about whether they are enjoying themselves to get the pleasure I should from the experiences. I need to do things where all of the pleasure is mine – not vicarious pleasure I get from their experiences.
So I think I have found me. I know who I was, who my husband was and who I want to be. I also think I know who my husband is now. If I’m right, I think I can be happy.
Peace to all
PS. I have got here because of my much loved TRIBE. You have been my world for the last 5 months. Your responses to my posts and your reflections on your own experiences have helped me enormously. Reading about your relationships has helped me to see mine more clearly. You have given me a life.
Honest: Seriously now. Your H is a piece of shit. You are better off without him. I realize it hurts to be deprived of a choice to R. That is sad. But, you can do better. More importantly, this man is toxic and is hurting you and you need to stop this! Stop talking to him, it's hampering your progress. Please find some people irl that you can go out and do something, anything that interests you. It may start off as a distraction - maybe you will just get some peace for an hour or two - but it should develop into more - something to help you recognize your true worth.
ATS - your situation at work with xOM is something we might be in, but we really really hope not. I'm reading and rereading your posts about this for reference on how it makes you feel.
Although BH mentioned that at their work, much talk is about x-OM and why he isn't accepting the CTO position yet. It would be a very high career jump for him. BH appreciates though that x-OM is honoring the NC in a way (aside from the one text about asking if he would accept this position)... We hope he really doesn't. x-OM will be BH's big boss if this happens and we think x-OM's a little scared we might blow the whistle on his wife.
Anyway, although its understandable that you wouldn't trust anything FWW says, it seems you are going in the right direction. I'm glad you are.
Laura - I'm really happy for you. You are really in the high right now.. As I was reading your long post, I think you had every right to burst up like that upon learning of the A. You're really lucky and blessed the fog has lifted for you FWH. I think there's nothing more satisfying in this journey of ours than knowing where we are and what we want from it.
BH also mentioned last night that he now knows what he wants... We can work this out. Since there is this chance that the A issue might come out soon (from x-OM, or any other way), he reminded me to be confident and to tell others that we're working on our marriage and that we're almost fixed (well, the real story would be between BH and me). BH's words, "Remember, we're in a better place now than we were before DDay."
I really am glad I'm taking my time here in this group. Things have been better since I posted here.
Oh yes, BH does think about it 24/7. His words: “every minute of every day”.
Since its been emphasized over and over again that apologies are very much appreciated, I still do even if he doesn’t acknowledge it.
“Porn with skin,” yeah, I guess it does fit that description. Eyuck…
Trust – so far I think I’ve been doing the Calculus based trust for a while. Of course sometimes I falter and BH would be at my case, but soon enough, he would be forgiving. I’ll be looking far and wide on how to rebuild identity based trust (for as long as it takes). Thanks.
About OM’s NC, BH and I talked about it and I insisted if there would be any reply, it would be from BH. Later on, we decided that we wait and see x-OM’s next step. Till then, we stabilize our career and financial foundation. And yes, what you said is pretty much what BH plans to say if he talks to him.
I don't know how to capture a portion of the previous message and include in my own post (the one that's boxed). How do I do that? Sorry, couldn't find how to.
About MC's advice. I agree that its the bottomline of the healing process but we were about a month after DDay then. Can you imagine where we were when she told us that advice? I tried to ask how do we do that... she just said that she thinks we're going to be fine and we'll be able to figure it out.