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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 21
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3.

Do not hate yourself. You were handed a giant trauma and I do not know anybody who could have handled this thing without some sort of adverse reaction. I bet everyone here stopped eating and anyone who drank probably drank more. You are smart and strong but you are not superwoman. This A shit will screw up anyone. You are a good mother. Special hugs to you m3, and to Baby Paddy.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks guys. WH said I shouldn't think I did this either, but I guess Mom's just get guilt soemtimes.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M3: I know us moms love to beat ourselves up as to our shortcomings as we can never do enough for our children. But, seriousy, don't you have enough on your plate? Deep in your heart you must know this is not something you did to your daughter. And, she sounds like she's going to be getting up to speed before you know it. Don't fret over this please.

As to my H's sleeping in his car. This is one of those things that he would do. He would drink too much, sleep it off a bit, then drive. Now, if that was always bullshit, I don't know. It's certainly possible. But, I will say that he sounded completely out of it when I called - I took it for extreme drunkeness, but within 15 minutes when I called him back to tell him to stop texting while driving, he sounded much more coherent. I do think he was asleep. Maybe that's just a defense mechanism and I'm in denial, but, that's how I feel about it now.

As for filing for divorce - jeez, as much as what he did last night totally sucked, there are worse incidents that didn't lead me to pull the trigger. I'm obviously not ready.

I will be curious to see what MC says.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3,
I know, the mom guilt... it'll get ya. I couldn't say "don't feel like that" but really, don't feel like that!


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fair enough, Allgood. Your WH is not my WH. For my WH, that would be 100% bull. For yours, looks like not.

My tolerances are so low now that it's ridiculous.

Anyway, I re-read the risk factors for this sort of thing that Paddy has and you're right, there is no way to prevent it. There are risk factors, and she has several, but they're things like being the 5th or later child, having a vanishing twin, but alcohol use and malnutrition are also on the list and I guess that's what makes me feel like this.

I guess the reason I wanted to address it is that it's a variation of the typical BS JFO kind of thing -- like, what did I do, if I caused it I can prevent it, bargaining, etc. Feeling like this disturbs me most because it highlights for me that I haven't quite made as much progress as I like to think I have.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My tolerances are so low now that it's ridiculous.

I hear ya sista. True dat.

And - you've made excellent progress. Sometimes YOU can't see it. But I can see it. And, I'm sure others see it as well.

As I am getting ready to get a new mini-calendar (to record all of my H's suspicious behavior, our fights, etc.) I've been looking back to a year ago. Damn - I wasn't sleeping. I was consumed with his A. Non stop investigating. Serious hysteria over losing him and desperately wanting to keep him. Man, it's awful just thinking about it.
But, try to remember how bad it was in the beginning. You are not anywhere near that place.
I hope you have some fun this weekend.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((m3))))

As a mom I know exactly what you mean about feeling like you could/should have done something differently for Baby Paddy. But think of it this way...say you ate like crazy, no alcohol and she was born without any problems...EXCEPT that she was a miserable baby....crying all the time, would not make eye contact, no smiling, no cuddling. That could have happened just as easily as what did happen. She is a beautiful child, I bet she takes your breath away just to look at her! So stop beating yourself up. Seriously, we all have things that we could say "If only I had done X, then maybe WS wouldn't have had an A."

Let me tell you a story. My youngest, DS17 was born with an Rh antibody. No question he got it from me. I'm Rh neg. and he got the Rh pos. from FWH. Despite having gotten Rhogam with the 1st two pregnancies he still developed the antibodies against his own blood. He was in trouble even before he was born so they took him early. He spent 10 days in NICU getting two days of continuous blood transfusions in order to completely replace his blood volume. They would take 10 cc out and push 10 cc of fresh blood (without antibodies) into his little body. Beacuse he was so sick he lost the initial sucking reflex and although the blood situation cleared up within a few days he did not know how to suck and had to be fed through a tube in his nose into his stomach. He was pretty scrawny looking! It would take me HOURS to get a few ounces of breast milk in him. I couldn't nurse because he was so weak he couldn't suck enough to get the milk, so I pumped breast milk and gave it to him in a special bottle/nipple that was made for preemies. That little, skinny baby is now healthy and has the appetite of your typical 17 year old boy. He playes lacrosse, hits hard, runs 5K races and loves to dance. Funny enough..he loves to eat anything...really anything. He was the only one that would even try Vegemite on a trip our family took to Australia. (That stuff is seriously gross! Sorry to the Aussies!) So, the moral of this story is...I did everything right, I ate right, took vitamins, did the testing, took the Rhogam shots and I still had a sick baby. Give yourself a break. More important to Baby Paddy is that she has a mom that is in love with her. That's what really matters.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, wise friends. I'm going to say "screw you" to my fears and my self-protection thing and hand WH all my needs during our MC tomorrow. Scared. To. Death. So I was thinking of giving him this tonight:

Dear WH,

I am going to hand over my list of ďneedsĒ tomorrow when we meet with MC. Iím really scared to do it. First, because there are a lot of themÖ although you are currently doing some of what I wrote. Second, because Iím afraid that youíll get angry or defensive when you see them and force me to defend my needs. In fact, I worked on these for days to try and state them in a way that would lessen this type of reaction. Let me say that again. I, the woman you betrayed and disrespected for two years, was so fearful of how you would feel about my needs that I rewrote them for days. Third, because I fear that youíll decide that my happiness isnít worth the changes youíd have to make and/or the work that you would have to do, and that youíll either refuse to do anything different than what youíre currently doing or that youíll give up and walk away. Fourth, because itís just plain scary to have no way to protect myself.

Deep-down, I fear that despite your words to the contrary you donít think that the raw, uncut me is important or special enough. And Iím terrified that Iím about to get proof that Iím not important or special in the most painful way possible: by completely opening up and showing you the fears and insecurities and vulnerabilities in my heart and watching you turn your back and walk away from me.

I feel like it would be safer to just keep quiet. I feel as if Iím standing on the edge of a cliff and thereís a bank of clouds below me and I have to jump. I have no idea whatís on the other side of the cliff. Could be a soft featherbed, could be jagged rocks. Heck, it could be a pack of hungry wolves. Maybe Iíll land in a cushion of safety, maybe Iíll end up broken and bloody, maybe Iíll be devoured and nothing will be left of me.

I hope that you will consider my feelings when you respond to my needs tomorrow. I hope that I will be glad that I shared them with you. I hope that you will appreciate how scary this is for me, and how much courage it is taking for me to share this with you.

I love you. Please take care of me.

Nell

Feedback? Too long? Too much drama? Just plain FUBAR? Back to the drawing board or perhaps just burn the damn thing and go in cold?


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Excellent letter!
My only hesitation is that my H would use the cliff metaphor as a way to determine that I'm being overly dramatic. Don't know how your H would respond to that.
Personally, I think the whole thing is wonderfully stated, including the cliff metaphor, but you know how these guys are, sometimes it's like, K.I.S.S. - keep it simple (for) stupid. (Again - my apologies to the men of SI. You are excluded from this comment. Lol.)


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell,

Tear it up. You got it off your chest, but it's not going to help you with him. Tear it up and make sure your needs are concise. I'd post them -- we can help you phrase them so they are very neutral.

men do better with less words and concrete concepts.

I need you to kiss me when you get home from work.

Might be a good example.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nell:

i say forget the letter...it will make him all defensive and defensive will not get you what you want....just calmly let him know that you worked on listing your needs and will take them with you to mc using the mc to help define them....

make sure your list is short and simplified, not too wordy, a include a couple of examples of how he could meet each need, like you did for his needs....

m3: you are not responsible for baby paddys sich, shit happens sometimes and you deal with what you are given and you are clearly doing that now...

as for the rest of your sich...right now i have few words...hopefully i will find more later....i do believe you are in somewhat of a verbal and emotional abusive sich with your ws...and i worry about you and your kids...i do still believe you should line up your ducks, if for no reason then to say you have all of your affairs in order.....just in case...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not all the men here are stupid and have concrete for brains. Tryn, ats and DP are all pretty smart.

Hugs to the tribe.

[This message edited by old dipstick at 3:48 PM, December 17th (Friday)]


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And you too, dip.

as for the rest of your sich...right now i have few words...hopefully i will find more later....i do believe you are in somewhat of a verbal and emotional abusive sich with your ws...and i worry about you and your kids...i do still believe you should line up your ducks, if for no reason then to say you have all of your affairs in order.....just in case...

I agree. IC and I have spoken about this. I really like my new IC.

I'll PM you.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood-
I can't even begin to list all the issues that I have with your husband's actions.

IMHO he does not 'get it'. He is not remorseful. And, that is the #1 ingredient for a successful reconcilaition. If a FWS is truly remorseful then he or she will be extremely motivated to do anything to save the marriage!
Your husband is still putting his own selfish needs before the your best interest and what is best for the marriage.
Your husband wanted to go out with his drinking buddies and did not care how triggering or upsetting it would be for you. He wanted to go to a a party where the OW would be in attendance and he didn't care how you felt about it!
He is talking about you in a disrespectful manner by telling his drinking buddies that he has not been around because you didn't 'allow' him. He is disrespecting you in order to look like a big shot in front of these so called friends!
And...it is obvious that these drinking buddies are NOT friends of your marriage. If they are telling him that getting divorced is the best thing that they ever did!And they are encouraging him to go out drinking alone without his wife.They are not good influences or role models.

And..why would your husband repeat that to you today?Why would he tell you that his friends say that getting divorced was the best thing ever? to hurt you more? to scare you?
to humiliate you?

and....why? did he say that you could go to the party next year because he realized that it would be no problem to keep you and the OW apart during the night due to the amount of people there etc.?
He never said that he was afraid of you confronting the OW. That was not mentioned as a reason for you not going...he had said that he didn't want you to attend because you would be the only spousethere and everyone would know you were babysitting him....well, why does he now say that you should go next year?
what was the real reason that he did not want you to be there?
and...about him not talking to the OW...who knows what to believe? you weren't there...he was.. and so was she......

and don't even get me started on the after party.
Isn't that what every kind, considerate spouse would do?
Your BS is upset and worried about you attending a party with the OW present. You go to the party without regard to the pain you will cause your wife.
And then....do you rush home early? to make her feel better and more secure?
No...of course not... you go out to a second party! and stay out even later.....
of course......

I know I've said this before and you disagree but... I have been through this myself and I definitely say that your husband has an alcohol problem. It seems to be a recurrent theme for him.
And, no, you do not have to be a fall down drunk every day to be considered an alcoholic.
Binge drinking, driving while drunk, having affairs while drunk, hanging out with drinkers, escaping from family responsibilities through alcohol, drinking so much that pulling over on the side of the road to sleep it off is considered a normal way of life....well...it sounds like there's a problem.

sometimes when we are in the middle of something it is hard for us to see it.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And, no, you do not have to be a fall down drunk every day to be considered an alcoholic.
There are "functional" alcoholics who can and do hold jobs, have a family life and in general do not appear to have a drinking problem. AGNG, I don't know if your WH is an alcoholic, but I wouldn't be too quick about ruling it out. Although it does sound like he doesn't need to drink to act stupid.

Nell - I actually like your letter. If that's how you feel then I think you should say it. I know that many times it's easier for me to write out something to my FWH than to say it to his face. Cowardly?? Probably, but at this point who wouldn't be a little gunshy? Like you I have a lot of trouble laying it all out for FWH. Like you, I'm scared to death that he'll leave me...again. I talked about this with the IC yesterday. I told her that it is exhausting having him home because I am so afraid of doing something that he will take the wrong way and then he won't love me? I watch every word I say and everything I do around him takes on a whole other meaning. She wants me to be myself and see what happens, but I feel like I was myself in the years before he started his A, and obviously that didn't work out so well, so why should I expect that he'll continue to like/love me as I really am now? I'm less fun, less confident, less stable than I was before DDay so if anything I would think that I would be less attractive now than I was when he decided I wasn't enough. Upon the advice of the IC I'm going to try it though. At this point, what do I/you have to lose?


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 5:18 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3.

Thank you. I had to edit that post. I had three spelling errors in it. There are probably more.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 5:31 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, crap, people. If short and simple is what I need to give to WH then it is time for me to get out my red pen and start slashing. Simple I got. Short not so much. I had a lot of unmet needs before WH's stupid selfish asshole behavior and now thanks to him the number of needs are exponentially greater. Stupid WH. I may need to pull an all-nighter. Good thing I'm an editor.

FWIW, I already gave WH the two shortest, least risky needs. I've thought about not giving him anything else (as he hasn't deemed this an important enough task to do his work and come up with more than a couple ideas in passing for one of his three stated needs). But that's not very mature, is it? And keeping quiet seems easier but it's not going to get my needs met. And it's going to all but guarantee that this whole R idea is an enormous waste of time. Craaaaaaaaap. I'm sick of this whole stupid mature adult thing.

Okay, I'm burning the letter and going back to the editing table to work on my needs. I'm telling you this right now... there had better be something big, expensive, personal, thoughtful and awe-inspiring for me under the tree with WH's stupid name on it. Piece of [insert long string of swear words here].

If any of you need anyone phoned and yelled at, I am now in a MOOD and would be happy to let loose.

ETA: Thank you, strongish. We cross-posted. I think the others are right, though. WH would either read it, thank me for it, then not give it another thought OR get defensive and list all the ways that he has proved that he cares about me and my fears are completely unfounded. Either way, he doesn't deserve my words because he won't care for them.

(See? MOOD.)

[This message edited by ImNellNow at 5:36 PM, December 17th (Friday)]


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NJGal: Of course I agree with much of what you said. I am not dealing with this until MC tho. I stated my position before he went, He did what he wanted and accommodated my feelings on his terms. This is not lost on me. But, I am not tackling a life long pattern of being able to do whatever he wanted without limits or repurcusions without the MC. (My H will acknowledge that this is true.)

However, I wanted to clarify the point about me going next year. He did tell me that he would not want to put me and OW in the same room on purpose. I guess I didn't mention it because my posts were getting lengthy and pretty frequent, and quite frankly, it was a minor point to me. In the weeks prior to the event I had told him I would go with him if he wanted to go and would not bother her, but if she was stupid enough to approach me or him, then I'm not making any promises. And the babysitter issue is not so much that no one brings their wives - some do- it's more the fact that I never went to these things before and now everyone will see the only reason I'm going is because I caught him with OW. Now, I think he has a point about putting me and OW in the same room, but I completley disagree about what people would think about me being there and told him so. (To me - it would be like - hey - we're trying to work this out and we're trying to spend more time together. And, I love the idea of OW seeing us happily together . But, he didn't see it this way and God knows the guys that he works with are so immature he's probably the better judge of what they think, not that any of it is my concern.)
Anyway, he shouldn't have gone, plain and simple for a million reasons. And, yes, the after party, that's just the icing on the cake.

My does have some sort of problem with alcohol - when he is with people from work or our neighbor, who is also a big drinker, he just completely loses track of time, how much he's drinking, etc.

He was full of apologies today.

Anyway - thank you. Even my friend IRL who knows all about this whole debacle and who has known my H as long as I have cannot believe he went and then came home so late.
Like I said, I am not dismissing his actions, I'm just waiting to address it with MC. I already wrote notes so that if I forget exactly how F'd up any of this was, I can recall it.

Nell:

If any of you need anyone phoned and yelled at, I am now in a MOOD and would be happy to let loose

Good to know.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 7:24 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{{{{Allgood}}}}}

Hugs to everyone.

I had a meltdown today. WH and I argued. He's going on about how much he's put up with me this past year (being sad), how much he pampered me and tried to accomodate me. Angry because I don't accept the OC's. He's married and has kids and I either accept it or leave. Maybe we should be separated. He can't live like this anymore with me being upset all the time. He would've left me years ago, but he knew that I would react like this and I'll never let him go. I depended too much on him emotionally to pull me out of feeling bad over the years. Even if he divorced me years ago, I wouldn't let him go. I would make him miserable for the rest of his life even if he divorced me. I put restrictions on him when he can call me because I asked him not to call me when I can hear the OC's in the background.

It's over. I wanted to wait until after Christmas, but I'm human. His cell phone rings earlier and a picture of one of the OC's is there, It's her. She calls again later. No respect. no respect at all.

He says I'm the one who is puishing him away.

I really wanted to wait. I was trying to. I was trying to act all nice and biting my tongue.

I am so scared and upset. It feels like DDay all over again. I didn't think I'd feel that way. I thought I could calmly tell him and not fight.

I can't even control myself, I'm crying my eyes out. I feel like I hate myself. Boy does this hurt.

I don't want to leave LTA and go to D/S and lose you guys too. You have saved my life numerous times this year.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((Honest)))) HOney, why would you even think about leaving us here in LTA!! Why that's just crazy-talkin'! You're one of us and that's just the way it's gonna be!!

I feel so horrible for you tonight. PLEASE know that you are not the cause of this. Honest, this man has no respect for you, for boundries, for common decency! He's a loon! Get Nell on the phone to talk to him now!!


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
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