Merry Christmas, y'all.
Enjoy your day.
Last night FWW gave me a serious adult Christmas card. I never got anything like that from her. She had written inside, and it was all very touching. She bought me a very nice gift to go with the card. She usually just buys something at a store and puts it in a bag for me, I am not accustomed to such a thoughtful gift. She said over and over how this Christmas is different, and better. She said she loves me.
I hit a rough patch yesterday evening, not sure exactly why, but we talked about it. I think it was just lots of little things like out looking at lights we drove past where OM#1 lives, past hotel where I got drunk and we had a huge fight 5 months out from dday, and little memory triggers all over the house from the years past. I slipped in to feeling guilty for stupid things, like not having tools with me when I picked her up at work and she asked if I could fix one of the kid's bikes. No reason I should have my tools with me, just old behavior coming out.
It is really hard to belive this is who she is now, and that she is happy with me, doing things for me. I guess I still have some trust issues, and have not fully dropped my guard, but I am working on it.
Ats- It's good to hear that your wife is 'getting' it. That she realizes how much she would have lost if she had lost you. And, that she is realizing that she needs to tell you and show you how much you mean to her.
That's what being married is all about. Putting the needs of the other person first!
I have been having a good Xmas eve and Xmas but... even at such a happy time of year those thoughts have a way of creeping don't they?
Especially for me... this time of year is a huge trigger (d-day was New Years).
But, like you, I have managed to push those negative thoughts out of my mind.I remind myself that he husband that I have today is NOT the same man that he was during the LTA.He is not the same man period!
He is someone who truly appreciates his wife and family in a way that he never had before. He does put my needs and the needs of our children first now!
so, progress, Ats...
make sure you tell your wife how much these gestures mean to you!
You know my feelings on this going out with drinking buddies business.
I had a very , very liberal attitude about my marriage...I was not going to be that clingy wife....
he could do his thing, I could do mine, we didn't need to be joined to the hip like other couples. I didn't need to attend all of his work functions. I didn't like to drink so he could go out with drinking buddies. He didn't like going to indie movies so I could do that with girlfriends etc.
well...that attitude did nothing to help my marriage!
In fact it ran it into a ditch!
What it did was create two parallel lives that sometimes intercepted when it came to family .
IMHO I have a much better, much richer marriage now!
We do everything together! And guess what? My husband has realized that enjoys doing things with me!
He has started doing things with me because he places my happiness before his....
he tries very hard to not fall back into his former selfish outlook.
And, the surprise is that he realizes that he enjoys going to those indie movies with me!
And he enjoys life so much more now that he is sober etc!
He prefers my company to that of his co-worker/drinking buddies.
He realizes now how screwed up his priorities were and how truly shallow, meaningless, and toxic so many of his friendships were.
I think your husbands buddies discussing the benefits of divorce with him are not friends of your marriage. And more contact with them will NOT help your marriage.
In my opinion, after infidelity, all bets are off!
Everything has to change! He or she cheats...well, then they lose priviledges!
No more Facebook friends! No more secret passwords! No more guys night out or girls night out! No more drinks or lunches with co-workers. No more work parties without the wife present.
Especially when the OW is present!
Trying to continue doing what you did before the affair happened in my opinion is NOT the right approach.
Doing all of those things ended up in infidelity..so why would anyone want to continue in the same behaviors that almost destroyed their marriage?
I think that in order to reconcile after infidelity you need to draw up a whole new contract!
You need to have a new way of doing things... because you now have a new and very different marriage.
Hopefully, a much better marriage.
Anyhoo, I'm going to try to turn it around.
NJGal: I agree with you. MC could've been a lot stronger.
I know I made my point about his immature coworkers and that H should not care so much about what they think, etc. (which he denies), and MC danced around it a bit, but there's a long way to go.
I really can't get into it right now - I just wanted to thank you for your insights.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 10:46 AM, December 26th (Sunday)]
So happy for you
I had a very , very liberal attitude about my marriage... true! People are just not loyal and loving all of the time. 100% our spouses were not. This may even INCLUDE every one of us too! We may have this in us TOO. We must have conscience boundaries set so we always are aware of right and wrong. Some people have no idea what is even right or wrong.
- I will always make my spouse feel safe. (So going to a party knowing your OW will attend is boundary crossed! But if you don’t have that boundaries, you are just not concerned; Allgood, your MC is flat out wrong, period, you need to think about getting another MC imo… You need to meet your MC and asked why he would encourage your spouse after what you have gone through your H intentionally make you feel unsafe. And continue this behavior making you feel scared)
- I will not allow my spouse to make me feel unsafe. (So if my spouse goes to a party when I have firmly communicated I won’t feel safe, that intentionally makes me feel unsafe.)
The consequences of crossing boundaries? For me, It can happen by mistake or it can happen intentionally. I am not going to accept it. A few months back, ats’s wife crossed this boundary. Do you remember what ats’s consequences were? Ats got rightly upset and It took great courage to leave his wife. Didn’t he live in a motel? If I were in allgoods shoes…. For me, I would let that party go.. but for the future, I would say to my W… That is intentionally making me feel unsafe. Do you intentionally want to make me feel unsafe? If you ever go to an event knowing OW will be there by choice, I will leave you… because that clearly says to me you just could care less about my feelings.
- I will not be married to a spouse who needs a close relationship with a man. (So going to lunches with a man (for me once every 3 months), texting, calling, drinks, online messengers, etc.. I will divorce.
- I will not develop a personal emotional relationship with another woman.
- I will not being in a marriage that is not loving by both myself or my spouse. ( I love to follow the 5 languages of love.. I live them everyday! Intentionally, with all my power of that day, with conviction, with everything I got… That is what I control. Myself…
I can assure you good boundaries in your life will help you achieve happiness! I am living proof. I hope that I can teach my adult kids and I do it is very small ways where they don’t even realize it.
My 20 year old son said to me, his GF is saying she should not come over… his GF was trying to tell my son what she thought he was thinking and feeling. My son was saying what the heck, I want her to come over but she says she better not.... I told him to make sure she knows she cannot possibly know what you are thinking or feeling and to listen to what he is saying. The only think you can do is telling her. It may take a few times. Next thing I know, she is over our house and they enjoyed each other’s company… The real reason behind all this was the day before my son spent the whole day with his HS buddies. It was the first time he had done it in months and his GF was feeling a bit rejected. It funny how some think love is supposed to be around each other all of the time… I enjoy the company of my best friend. I enjoy gambling with just him. He would never do anything that hurts my M. He is positive about my M. He is a friend of my M and I recognize it. My other best friend was not soon after my Dday. He was insisting I think about D. I had to explain to him what keeping it meant… Today, my other friend and I still have a good time and never mentions my R… we just have friends….
Can you all understand what I am saying? We all have choices…
[This message edited by trynhard at 10:05 AM, December 26th (Sunday)]
We had a M also were I felt it wasn't good to smother each other. We had friends of the M and also separate friends outside of the M. I now look back and see that was a mistake. I had set boundaries for myself and just assumed H did too. I don't think he knew what boundaries were. He told me that he didn't think that he was doing anything wrong by taking OW out to dinner, they weren't having sex at that time. How stupid.
So now we have set boundaries. One is making new friends and these friends have to be friends of the M. No more separate vacations. No more going out with the boys (that's how he got into trouble)and anyone that covered for him is not welcome at my home, or my place of business. I will D before I allow that again.
Boundaries are important.
My Christmas was very nice. WH went over and above on the presents for me, very thoughtful and on target (like a heater for my office because I mentioned that it gets freezing in there during the winter months). My parents are here; I love them, they love me, we have a completely functional relationship with no drama and I can focus on them instead of on WH. I even only thought specifically about his LTA once on Christmas Eve. All good stuff.
Hugs to the tribe. *poof*
I think about how very different things could have been. MOW and her BH’s younger daughter is home from Australia, having been delayed by our crap way of (not) dealing with the snow. Would she and her sister even have gone there if she had known about her mother and WH? Would two of my boys be in NZ or would they be here? How what we do touches and alters the lives of others. What if. The coulda, woulda, shoulda effect.
Someone’s just decided to wake up and stroll in to interrupt me. So. Time to make tea, rouse the other sleepers and throw another log on the fire.
I’ve missed reading up in here, but I’m thinking of you all and your individual situations. Peace and a happier 2011 for us all.
Hope it comes out - I'm on a tiny reduced window to stop prying!
Now..about Xmas. Glad that yours is working out OK.
I was thinking about that myself. That this Xmas was the first one that I finally felt happy and present.
Its hard to explain to anyone but another BS.
I went through the motions before but this year I definitely surprised myself with moments of joy before, and during our Xmas celebration. So, progress...
I guess I am on that 5 yr plan when it comes to recovery.
This New Years will be 4 yrs post d-day for me.
Wishing the New Year for all us to be positive with health, and lots of happiness.
Peace to all....
I am now noticing the pre-DDay dynamic in full effect, just having trouble breaking the cycle.
I get stressed out about something/everything and get annoyed with him about what he's not doing, he thinks I'm ridiculous and starting a fight about nothing, which makes me even bitchier and which, in turn, makes his behavior more hostile/defensive.
How do I break the cycle when he just doesn't seem capable of understanding that things that are not getting done around here (which are a of time sensitive nature and cannot be put off any longer) matters to me, even if it doesn't matter to him.
Maybe I should start drinking heavily and nothing will matter to me either....
Yesterday, I was able to speak to him calmly soon after blowing up and tried to have a constructive conversation about being respectful with each other, appreciating someone's else
's standpoint even if we didn't share it , etc. to no avail.
Today, I just called him a dick and walked away...
i get the sense that the issues you are referring to have to do with chores or the kids or general stuff that needs doing on a daily basis in a home especially a home that has kids...
this is where mc will help eventually, it sounds alot like something that is a marriage issue as opposed to an infidelity issue.....
and yes i understand that the marriage issues will still make you feel invalued, unprioritized and basically angry because it should be a partnership...and i could definitely relate...
for mr allgood, i get the sense that he is a little slow on the uptake of what he should be doing and how he should be doing it....and that your patience, so understandbly is short to nil...especially because of the infidelity.....and i could relate so so well....even though i am not reconcilling i am still in some kind of partnership with pfm and he is also not stepping up the way he should, also with pre-dday issues....we had a few hiccups the past 2 days and i succeeded, (not sure how) in not letting those hiccups become more then that...and they really could have....
i wish i had more to give ya...but sometimes there is just no cure for stupid...
honest: check in hon....
ats: love the picture...more then that i love that you are getting your happy together...
Nofun: you sound a lot stronger and more sure of where you are going.
NJgal: I'm glad your holiday went better than the ones past and you found some joy this year.
Nell:I'm glad your WH got you some decent presents and your Christmas went fairly well.
UKgirl: That poem is super fantastic. I am copying and pasting it, (with your permission ) It really captures how I feel. Thank you for sharing it.
You are right, these WS's did not think for one minute how their action could affect so many people. My SOB WH hasn't really thought how it not only affects me and OW, but 5 children, 3 OC's and our 2 boys.
Tryn, thank you for the great advice. It's so sad, I'm more than willing to do anything to change, change our marriage, but what can I do when WH is still married to OW? <sigh>
There is a new "app" or internet phone service called "Tango" that works on certain phones. It's a video call service and it's free. So of course that's what WH is using now. He downloaded it on my and DS15's phone, and of course OW. There is a certain ring to it. Of course yesterday, Christmas Day, it rings and it's the OC's calling. WH doesn't try to hide he's talking to them (I'm in the kitchen) asks DS12 if he wants to talk to them and DS yells NO!!! So, I had a mini meltdown, which I went into my room. SI helped. I remembered the advice "breathe, breathe" and it really helped. Although they don't celebrate Christmas over there, I KNOW OW knew it was Christmas Day here. Bitch. WH is a sob for not even trying to hide it.
I thought I was detaching, and I am, but when it's thrown in your face......
DS 30 and 35 came over and they gave me and the little guys great gifts, but did NOT have anything for WH. (They always did before) I know WH wasn't happy about that, but there was a message loud and clear.
I know it's getting to the point that NC will be the best emotionally for me. It may seem weird, but right now, this is the path of least regret right now. For right now. I know the road of D. I know how much more nasty it will get, how much more hurtful it will be with even more stupid and hurtful things that WH will most likely pull in addition to the money problems.
It occurred to me today that I'm just interchangeable, although OW has or does something special for WH. Don't know what. It doesn't matter to him who is here with him right now. Just company, just someone to keep him from feeling lonely. I'm disposable to him. Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a pity party, just trying to be realistic and trying to detach. For the most part I'm doing ok with it, but do fall into deep hurt and despair. I'm trying to follow my IC's advice, and Miracle's advice: I have to depend on myself emotionally to pull myself up and it's ok and good to get support, but I cannot depend on anyone else (and especially WH) to actually pull me up and do ALL the work. I still need the support, which you guys are giving me. You are helping me so much with your reality checks, advice and all your help. NPD WH can make me doubt myself and my opinions. ]
Yesterday, DS15 said I shouldn't need reality checks, but just realize if I feel a certain way, it's right. It's just feelings and that is the way you feel. How did he get so wise?
Love to you all.
Very quiet in Laura's house today. Everyone relaxing after Christmas. H is watching a DVD D24 bought him so I can type in peace.
NJgal and Tryn
I appreciate your reflections on boundaries and changes needed after dday. Like Nofun and others I didn't think I needed to enforce boundaries. Silly me. TRUST and/or taking the marriage for granted allowed H to have his affairs. But I do wonder - if the boundaries had been there would he have still done what he did? I think so. All his As were with nurses and began with too much personal contact at work - which I could not have known about or prevented. When he was with them he told me he was elsewhere- working down the paddock where there is no mobile reception or working at the hospital. I was at work or out of town. He never took them out for a meal or away for a holiday. He only saw them in their homes (I hope not in ours!) during the day when people would not suspect or for an hour or so late at night (he had sleepovers when I was out of town). We live in a small town (16k) and chances of getting caught were high. He was a cheater at heart and that's all there is to it! No boundaries could have stopped him.
My H never went "out" without me. He has no buddies.
I have saved your tree. I love it. Hope you don't mind. It provokes some very powerful emotions.
I think their selfishness makes them blind to and unable to appreciate the importance of some things to others. eg I look after the pool - the chemistry, clean it, maintain the equipment etc. I like it to be sparkling. My H looks after the garden around it. I keep the pool clean and nice to swim in. He has let the gardens become overgrown with weeds. I have a number of choices
1. Weed it myself (I won't do this because then it will become yet ANOTHER thing I am reponsible for).
2. Complain/nag until he fixes it. Then wait until it's overgrown again and repeat.
3. Say nothing and MAKE myself not care about it.
I have chosen option 3 because I can live with the untidiness but not with a green pool or people getting sick. I follow this logic with most things. I have done this for a long time. If the issue was very important (like paying house insurance) I'd do it myself. If it was very important and I couldn't do it myself I'd initiate WW3 and fight until I got it done.
So, my kitchen/living area is half painted and has been for 3 yrs (I'm not allowed to bring in a painter). My shower leaks and the timber doors frames in bath room are rotting - H keeps patching it up and I'm not allowed to bring in a plumber.
These may sound like important things. They are not. I can live with them.
H and I have actually had far fewer fights in recent years because the kids have left home. When they were here there were far more reasons (to do with them) to start WW3
Honey I feel like I'm watching you climb your own personal Calvary. I am so sad for you. You are a fighter and have done all you can.
WE WILL HELP YOU. STAY STRONG HONEY.
Tribe. We have baby ducklings. Not sure how many but more than a dozen. Will keep you updated on their progress and supply pics when available. It has rained here almost constantly for last 3 months. Never seen it so wet. The ducks are loving it!!!
Hope you are all enjoying a nice post Christmas rest.
[This message edited by Laura28 at 8:34 PM, December 26th (Sunday)]
But I do wonder - if the boundaries had been there would he have still done what he did? I think so
You are right. They would've done it anyway.
I torture myself with this constantly. You know what - I can't prevent it. Life can be difficult. If you are a parent, it's not all about you anymore. I could've screamed all I wanted about your hours and your company, but the bottom line is: you weren't capable of handling life.
I could've reigned him in, but, just like now, if there is a will there's a way. If you are selfish, and life (at home ) isn't all about you, you will find a way.
By the way, I'm drunk as Hell right now... and you know, what- this is great! Like, I could do this every day, escape reality, then wake up and say - O, I had a problem - and get help, and
all would be forgiven... SEriously, I'm starting to lose my grasp of why it is that I should do the right thing...
By the way, I'm drunk as Hell right now
I do this far too often. I like the numbness too. Just make sure you keep yourself safe.
You know why you do the right thing ............
ARE A GOOD PERSON.
Can't talk he is hovering
Thinking of you