I'd recommend going to free consult w/lawyer even before OC is born (or DNA ordered). Things could happen very quickly, if OW is greedy. It really pays to be proactive (from what some of the poor souls have had to endure on here). Probably a good idea to set aside some $$$, if possible, to pay retainer if something legal flows through quickly.
Honestly, OC legal issues should almost be handled like child born out-of-wedlock for single people. I'm not sure what lawyers you are seeking advice from, but with so many single-parent families, I'm kinda surprised at how they've reacted to your fWH's questions. It's like a hostile custody D, btwn OW/fWH without the D decree, right? Maybe people are just reluctant to get involved w/OW & BW issues looming in the background. Maybe more of a stereotype of WS & lawyer's personal feelings, as opposed to anything else. $$$ talks...and I'm sure fWH can find legal representation, once you/he decide what needs to be done.
fWH's lawyer was very professional about the whole thing...but, fWH waited until OC was 8 before doing everything legal (except he'd had the DNA & BC name changed/father added ASAP - did not wait for OW to file paternity case, fWH paid for DNA out-of-pocket & started paying what was OW/fWH's verbal agreement for CS once DNA+, and started overnight/whole weekend visitation).
i know i don't post in here much, but today i need your grace and experience and comfort. i've been trying to move on and it's killing XH. he was all devastated last night and i couldn't, wouldn't be his comfort. then i saw here this morning, that in addition to me moving on, he talked to OW for the first time since last summer. the baby is supposedly coming back in september and XH will start being her daddy.
it's what i wanted him to do. i D'ed him to free him up to parent the creatures he's brought into this world. i'm moving on and starting to love my life....but i'm still on the roller coaster and this morning's sudden turn makes me feel pretty ill.
i only know about it because he posted about in WS and the title was so compelling and obvious. it's weird having him here, now that i'm more of an NB than BS. he's just now investing more in what the WS's have to offer in comfort and healing after posting here and there in his more desperate moments. i don't want to read his stuff anymore. i don't want him reading mine. today i wish i could really cut ties completely, like a real breakup and not watch any of this happen. but DD loves her daddy.
these are all things i have to "let go" - i chose to go. i can't edit my life for his feelings, i can't save him, i can't undo what he did and he's free to do what he wants now. it's just that the specter of the baby returning and that trigger coming into my life for real, as DD's fucking sister...it's just too real for me right now. AND now that he's pushing away from me, he'll probably start seeing people too.
i needed to get this out so i can get on with what i'm doing for me and DD. thank you all for reading....all these months, all the tears. i can't imagine anyone else who could begin to understand.
life must be rich and full of loving--it's no good otherwise, no good at all, for anyone - j. kerouac
Give yourself some slack! All of this is still so new...it's not like you went looking for a divorce, it happened to you because of their actions. And it proves the point, again, that even divorce doesn't solve the problems that were created by the A. It hurts for him to start being a dad just as much as if you were still with him but it will get easier with time as it all settles into "normal".
I also understand the pain at knowing that your child will eventually get to know the OC as a sibling. Focus on what's best for them even if it hurts. This makes you the better person and you can be proud of yourself in how you handled the situation. That feeling of pride in your own actions will still be there after the pain has diminished.
If it would make you feel better, change your username and send out some private messages to those you want to know who you are. That way, you can continue to post without prying eyes that don't need to see you vent or know of your pain. Hang in there. Hugs.
as for him reading? i'm closer and close to "fuck it." i don't really care anymore. i don't do anything he can use against me, and the rest only hurts him if he goes seeking.
i am definitely concentrating on those kids. i'm the only reason he's doing the right thing. he HATES that him doing the right thing and me D-ing him were more important to me than "keeping the dream alive" and working on R and having NC with OW/OC. he wanted that and to me it just stank of avoidance and lack of responsibility.
(i don't believe that about all NC...i just know that XH would have used any excuse he could find to make NC the "right" choice.)
i realized yesterday, once again, and more calmly this time, that D is the only choice for me. i'm not capable of being myself or happy or building the life i want if i stay with him. it was my dealbreaker and i feel it in my bones. these things will hurt less and less for me with each detachment. i couldn't handle this still "attached."
((((all of you)))) i know there is no one on the planet who can understand this without going through it. you all have saved me so much heartache with your honest sharing of experiences and advice. i hope the best for all of you and your children.
Sorry I haven't been on much to give support, hugs to everyone. I just have been so on edge and have been partly looking forward to this day (hoping cOW makes herself look REALLY bad) and partly dreading this day because the courts haven't exactly been on fwh's side.
I will be back later once my fwh calls me with all the sordid details... :
OW/OC left BH#2 pre-A#3 for a few weeks b/c BH#2 was being mean to OC and fWH told OW that OC could not live in BH#2's household anymore. OW's mother had illuded to fact that BH#2 took things out on OC, when OW/BH#2 were fighting. OC herself had become frightened of BH#2 b/c the fighting (yelling, throwing things, etc.). I knew fWH/OW issues were in the middle of this, but fWH assured me they weren't. Turns out, while OW was moved out & fWH went over to get OC from OW's mother's (where OW/OC were staying), that a fight brewed up. Somehow OW's mother started spatting stuff about "you should leave REPEATBS326, because OC/OW need you" and stuff like "admit it, you love 2 women @same time." fWH 'claims' he told OW's mother (while OW's mother & stepdad & OW were standing around outside in arguement), that he didn't love 2 women. He said OW started crying. He started yelling @OW "I never promised I'd leave REPEAT, did I? I never made any promises that I'd be with you & OC and leave REPEAT & COM, did I?" OW admitted he never made any such promises & then she ran indoors crying. I swear, it all sounds like a soap opera. What sane mother encourages her MARRIED daughter to pursue a married man & break up his family? OMG. These people are so damaged, it isn't funny. Of course, I had never heard this story before, but I would not be surprised if it weren't true. I do know fWH loved OW during many times of the multiple As, but I think if fWH had not butted in about OC's being around BH#2 (or approached him instead of demanding OW leave fWH), EA/PA#3 might not have happened. OW's mother insisted that fWH making OW move OC from BH#2's home was all about having OW "free" to pursue himself (that he didn't like OW being attached to another man)....I have always thought the same thing myself.
I always feel like maybe the only reason fWH stays w/me, is because I've never been tainted by another man. That fWH is the only man I have been with. He's rightly stupid, if he stays w/me just b/c of that...if he truly would be happy w/someone else. Why let my past virginity hold him back? Maybe OW is just too much of a whore to consider a suitable wife for fWH!
We've had a pretty good week w/OC. Taking her back tonight @6. Job's in a crazy state, but a good week w/COM&OC is a blessing. fWH and I have gotten along pretty well also. I hope he truly loves me & will someday regret all of EA/PAs (even the one when OC was conceived). He does not have to unlove OC, to regret putting our M through all of this, does he?
[This message edited by repeatBS326 at 11:13 AM, June 20th (Monday)]
So, what's the verdict???? We are anxiously awaiting to hear how court went.
So the cOW DID show up with an attorney! However, the attorney was most likely legal aid because she didn't seem familiar with the case at all. cOW didn't talk to my fwh, but shot daggers at him with her eyes. Fwh's lawyer was in a different trial, but another lawyer from the firm was there (and was just as good as the one in trial!!!).
So obviously mediation wasn't an option, and fwh's lawyer requested all lawyer fees (over $2K) plus expenses (parking, daycare for COM, etc.). So off to the judge they go.
They walk in and yes, it's the same judge. Since she filed the contempt, cOW and her lawyer were up first. They were arguing that my fwh purposely had "ridiculous" deductions withheld from his bonus, and even that lawyer said she thought net meant after taxes but not deductions/withholdings. Fwh's job took the CS (they take it from there vs. his reg pay, mathematically it all comes out ok although I know it doesn't sound like it makes sense), his short term disability, and his stock--now mind you the cOW wanted his stock shares from the 1st trial and the judge told her no, that they are non-transferrable (hell my fwh can't even transfer them to me!). Plus the last few years he has sold, it was for a loss. Doesn't matter--the judge had ruled my fwh was only responsible for the bonus $ as additional support. So they didn't speak long.
Then my fwh barracuda...I mean lawyer started talking. Mentioned all the harrassment he got (nasty text, multiple phone calls, a threatening letter). Then his lawyer says "and your honor this is her 3rd attempt at another bite of the apple" and she brings up the last motion for reconsideration that cOW filed and was immediately denied. The judge had a puzzled look on his face and said "really?" So he's thumbing thru his papers, the other lawyer is looking at the cOW PISSED OFF because apparently cOW didn't mention that...the barracuda in a pant suit continued on saying that the cOW won't learn to stop her games unless she is forced to pay. Then the judge seems to find the motion, at the same time fwh's lawyer says "she has harrassed him constantly, she has even HARRASSED HIS WIFE'S EMPLOYER"!!! The judge already looked pissed at cOW (when fwh's lawyer was reading the text message and the letter, he shot her a not-so-friendly glance) and the cOW then starts yelling "I OBJECT TO THIS I OBJECT TO THIS!!!" The judge had finished reading, clearly had enough, and IMMEDIATELY stops the trial! Says he will mail out his ruling, good-bye, have a nice day. cOW was P.I.S.S.E.D.!!! She storms out of the courtroom, slamming the door in fwh's lawyer's face! Hopefully the judge heard the door (kinda hard not to, it's heavy and loud!). Then fwh and his lawyer walk out and see cOW and her lawyer arguing!!! He couldn't make out what she was saying exactly, but it was along the lines of how she didn't tell her lawyer about the last motion, the text message, the letter! Now mind you the cOW put in her letter she was sending it on the advice of her attorney! Oh and fwh's lawyer brought up how the CS order isn't even 6 months old yet, however she has been constantly filing something at the courthouse! Heck, fwh's lawyer didn't even get to go fully for the jugular before the judge stopped the trial!!!
So...now we hurry up and WAIT. Blah. Hoping to hear something swiftly, though. Her last motion got denied in a week, so we're hoping the same happens this time. Now the lawyer did advise my fwh that the judge may or may not order her to pay the fees since she is not working and is "poor", single mother to OC.
At the same time the lawyer did put in for paperwork for joint legal. Guess the cOW FREAKED OUT and said she was going to contest it. Fwh has to talk to his original attorney--but this attorney said she didn't think he had a good case because of the NC. Although he can argue because of the litigation that's why NC was the best choice. His original attorney thought he had a good chance. But the 2nd attorney said that it will be very costly and go over the retainer because cOW is going to fight it. And of COURSE the stupid cOW gets FREE LEGAL representation. She did say we can file a motion to have access to the medical for insurance payment purposes only, and we may go with that for now. And I just drafted a new insurance letter (since the new insurance is deductible). I think the lawyer did tell cOW's lawyer that the insurance was changing. I put in my new letter that she is NOT to call my HR dept--if she does I will be filing harrassment on her.
Whew! So that's it. Fwh said everytime he sees her he is more disgusted. Hell his lawyer even said damn she's ugly inside and out. I do wish I went but at the same time I'm glad I didn't. I would've missed work/$$$. But there if the joint legal does go forward, and it's a day I'm off (I can't take time off during my summer job because of the way I'm paid), I will be there.
So wish us luck!!! I also posted in general--we had a GREAT evening afterwards! We went to dinner and really enjoyed each other's company. Then he goes to IC the next day and becomes an irritable beast (which he has been doing lately).
Thanks for the advice on joint custody.[/bold]
[This message edited by disrespected666 at 11:16 AM, September 17th (Saturday)]
Well, fWH may not get exactly what he's asking for, but for the judge to send OW out-of-court like that, I would think he has had enough of OW himself.
I suspect the joint legal is unlikely also, but the just just might be so angry w/OW that he grants it for spite.
Hmm. I had not thought about benefits out of net pay. I would think NET would be after taxes, but pre benefit deductions (but those are pretax, so it'd be weird to calc).
fWH might need to write up a will, incase of untimely death. Those shares of stock would likely be split btwn you, COM, & OC (and any other children fWH has) if left up to courts.
Yes, if OW had to file for bankruptcy, she will be looking for a larger handout once she realizes she cannot afford OC. But, if both she & fWH don't have well-paying jobs, it's unlikely that fWH would have to pay much & most states don't consider BW's income (from what I gather). I love public records also...when u can see the actual paperwork for loan/deed for OW/BH's home, you know exactly how much they financed & how long the mortgage is.
The employee stock purpose plan has alway been taken out of my fwh bonus, as well as his short term diability. At first we were concerned too but 2 lawyers and an accountant reassured us that net = after taxes, deductions (not necessarily pre tax either...if you think about it taxes come out first and everything else is post tax), and other withholdings. An employee stock purchase, his short term dis are all ok. The CS is the only difference this time than the last time (the judge made his ruling having seen his previous bonus $ paystub that had the stock and disability taken out too). But even then, she can't get $ from the CS$...that would be like double dipping. So he shouldn't be in contempt (esp since its his employer who does this, not him). Getting the $ for the lawyer back? We aren't gaming on that but it would be nice for her to the smack down.
He's been playing phone tag with the lawyer to talk about the joint legal. Heck I would be happy with the medical clause only so my family is protected with the insurance.
Repeat I love that you get me thinking of all angles! So many little things that I wouldn't think of you make sure I have all my ducks in a row!
Edited: I now get what you said about pretax, sorry on my phone and can't edit higher up! I have a flex spending (pretax) and yes that is a benefit before taxes. But the deductions after tax are still considered acceptable deductions/withholdings. Plus this is additonal support, not primary, so its fully judge's discretion (vs if this was primary support, then he would have to go by the guidelines). I just hope its all spelled out for the stupid cOW because he gets another bonus next month.
[This message edited by IslandWahine at 8:10 AM, June 23rd (Thursday)]
I would not have known some of this stuff, except my mom found out when settling her husband's estate after she was widowed (he had COM from 2 previous M). Unfortunately, he passed away w/out a will and mom had just assumed since her name was on mortgages/deeds that she would inherit when he passed unexpectedly. NOPE. In our state, anything big (land/home) would have his share split between his heirs equally (mom, son1, & son2). She was able to get them to sign a quit claim on a smaller home they had (now a rental), but not on her primary residence which she owes many more years of mortgage on. She needed to refinance & 2xSSs credit history actually could come into play on that refinance. The dream home they bought together, is now 4/6th hers & 1/6 each stepson's. One SS is incarcerated. They could actually borrow against mom's primary home's equity. She warned us that the same thing could happen if fWH passed away (that OC would own 1/8th our land which was given/deeded to us by ILs). I certainly would not want OW (being OC's guardian), being partly responsible for our land. She could even be a butthead about it & force a sale of the property. Our mobile home (which isn't part of the deed) would have to be moved off the property, if she forced a sale or something. ILs would be livid, if something ever happened like that.
Fortunately, the life ins policy on fWH has a clear-cut beneficiary (me), but secondary are COM/OC if I have passed away.
My mom said her lawyer told her that you either need a will (but that puts land/home into probate after death), or what's better is add a survivorship clause to the deed wording, so the remaining person on the deed inherits automatically w/out going into probate @all.
I think fWH's should be required to protect BW/COM at all costs against OW being part-controlling party in the event of fWH's untimely death.
By bringing OC into this world, all sorts of weird heir laws can come into play for WS's belongings (mostly land/home & maybe some retirement & other stuff).
You know, if WS was a military vet (or maybe even postal or state worker), OC could even receive other sorts of benefits until 18....even scholarships & such after OC is 18.
++++++++I even know my grandmother received black-lung payments after her xH's death & his 2nd wife's death b/c they'd been M for >10 yrs pre-D. I would suspect OC could receive any sorts of things like that until adulthood also.
Of course, we know from our situation that OW can be named OC's payee on social security disability benefits through fWH's disability claim until she's 18 (unless OC starts working & benefits are reduced). And, if fWH passes away, OC will receive survivor benefits through fWH's SS.
Oh, OC thinks she figured out why OW receives disability. She said a Dr. told OW that since her ankle had been sprained so many times, if she worked on her feet she was prone to breaking it. I never knew that would get you out of working for rest-of-life. Seems like a flimsy excuse to receive disability, since even most people in fWH's shape (paraplegic) have to fight tooth&nail to get on disability. But, we have no confirmation from OW that's why she's drawing. She has HS diploma & managerial experience...seems like they could retrain her for a desk job though. She was pulling in >$70,000 annually by herself @one point. Oh well. At least we are not having to pay CS right now. I guess I shouldn't complain, since we got out of that $400/month once the calcs were done in 2008 & OW actually owed fWH CS instead.
Hope everyone has a good evening. Wish me luck tomorrow. If I plan on keeping my same job w/another company who got our contract, I have to interview tomorrow & hope they send me an offer letter. Bought a suit/shoes yesterday to get all professional-looking for it. I am reluctantly interviewing, like all my coworkers. We have been w/this company 6.5 years & their benefits have improved with time. Have had same coworkers for over 11 years. It will be sad to leave my nice office and go back to an office trailer on the jobsite & my kids won't be able to visit me anymore. But, I'm the primary breadwinner now & insurance holder.
Originally fwh didn't want to leave anything to the OC, but I convinced him to leave just a little something so there won't be any question and the chance of cOW trying to get more, especially if everything is clear-cut. I know OC would be able to get a portion of his SS and that's fine. But the house, the assets...I will be damned if cOW gets a piece of anything (because I know if it were to go to OC, he will never ever get it). So leaving a small something in a trust, because cOW would totally spend all the SS $...I'm ok with that. Well I guess I wouldn't have a choice LOL. I will also have to amend my will (I already amended my insurance so only my children are my beneificiaries, my fwh is not named on anything). I have a good policy for a good amount of $, and I will be damned if it goes to ANYONE other than the COM.
I brought up the fact that my stepDs keep telling people that FWH "walked out on them". She denied it, and admitted that they (stepDs) all wanted nothing to do with their dad after he said he wanted NC with OW and OC. She apologized profusely, said what a mistake it had been, and how she wants a relationship with her dad and her sister (COM) and even me at any cost. StepD said her sisters (stepD21 and stepD23) were attacking her verbally, as was "everyone" (her mother's side of the family and OW) for wanting a relationship with us, but that she loved us and didn't care.
I told her that I know she has a relationship with OW so I wasn't going to badmouth her, but she needed to know some of the things that OW did to FWH, COM and I that made NC the only possible choice for us. StepD interrupted me to tell me that they (stepDs) never hear from OW anymore, she never calls, and the rarely see OC. She said her mother (the bitch XW referenced in my profile) is even quoted as saying; "I hate to say it, but Want2Help was right- Ow went on with her life and dropped stepD1, stepD2, and stepD3." StepD said to me "Just like you said, OW got her own little life and we didn't matter any more."
I couldn't believe it!!! It was right after we decided to R that I told my stepDs that once OW found another man she would move on and leave them behind, and they laughed and didn't believe me.
She also said she doesn't want to be in Ow's wedding, but she is "being made to" (by her mother, XW). But she is so sorry for everything she said, and for calling Ow "her stepmom", that she was just mad, etc.
I feel so bad that she is being verbally abused by her sisters, and "dropped" by OW (I could tell that fact really hurt her), but gawd I feel so much better that she finally sees OW for what she is. OW used my stepDs to hurt FWH. Then she ditchd them when she found a new AP. If stepDs mother (XW) cared one bit for her Ds, she would have seen that OW was using them instead of seeing OW as an allied force in the war against FWH and I.
As sad as I am for my stepD, I feel like I have been falsely imprisoned for 4 years (the A was 4 years ago) and JUST NOW had my name cleared.
Wehn stepD left, she cried and hugged me and whispered to me that she loved me. She cried hugging DD, and DD cried for her the whole way home from the station.
She is going to try to come up once a month, and I am trying to talk her into transferring to college up here (we have better schools for what she wants to do).
Anyhow, OW is having less and less of a hold on our lives. And she gets married in a matter of days!! Her wedding website still says her new baby-daddy will be adopting OC, so we will see.
Wow! Sounds like everything went very well with SD. It's very sad that OW used SDs & that xW is in cahoots with her in some regard.
How does fWH feel about potential for OC to be adopted by OW's almost-husband? Do you think SDs will still be in OC's life to some extent through OW, or she's completely kept them out lately in an attempt to get the adoption/NC rolling?
If SD transferred schools, would she be living w/your family?