I think you are making a wise choice. Hurtful, but wise. I know nothing we can say will make you feel any better. See, you are entering into the pain of ending. It’s all part of life. Loss. But also a wonderful part of life is change, new beginnings.
This is a time where you need to spend a little time on yourself. It will be Ok if allow others to help you. Lean on some friends. Make sure your H understands and expects 3-4 nights of taking care of the kids on his own. This is going to be your private time for yourself. This should be time without the kids, without your H.. I am sure you have girlfriend to lean on… some family? Your private should be time to volunteer at a soup kitchen, a class, enjoy new movies, bowling, art, reading fun books, pick up a hobby you’ve always wanted to do… You need to do these things to move forward in life. I actually agree with M3’s post …
Please, just be confident in you. You can handle being single. It will be what you make it. I think if you can vision, dream some. Once you get over this initial shock with all those feelings, you will have new feelings that you have not had in a long time. These feeling could make you feel Extremely good. But it will take effort on your part.
Your goal should be total happiness. It does not come by staying with a partner not committed to you. Life is a journey, and paths change. You will be happy again… Make it so…
Last night, I was watching that show Hoarders. The woman was living in chicken shit. Yes, with real birds. She would show anger to push around others to keep what she perceive was a good life. Her life was taking care of those birds. But most of those bird were sick, no feathers, and some even died while taping that show. It was her perception she was doing good, right… When crew came in to help her, she resisted, Change made her feel very uncomfortable.
It made me think about marriage relationships. We get so caught up in living our lives, we get caught up in living with the shit, and think this is the norm. Was she really happy living in the shit? Not until we realize the shit for what it is... Only then can place it in the proper place..
[This message edited by trynhard at 6:15 AM, January 4th (Tuesday)]
So, this morning he kissed me Goodbye before leaving for work. It was cute - like he knew he shouldn't be doing it, but was doing it anyway (wait.... that's not really cute - that's more like his m.o. - damn!). Anyhoo - I told him he shouldn't be doing that. He then sent me a text after he left just saying Good Morning and hoping I could try to enjoy the day.
While I realize that I probably shouldn't like any of this - I do. Yesterday he really seemed to be down, but not trying to get me to change my mind, which I just thought was odd. (I mean, he seemed to think I was serious enough - he started making room in the basement for him to put a bed down there, etc.).
Anyway, it's nice to see that he's not so callous that he could take the end of our relationship without looking back.
Enough of that for now.
Honest: Havent' heard from you - hope you are ok. Is HE still in the states?
Peace to all.
Only 2 of my girlfriends know that I've decided to end it. No one else will know until after we tell our kids - which, ideally, will not be until after school ends for the year.
And - I forgot to clarify my intentions about cohabitating. I do intend to tell the kids in the summer. After 6 months of this, my H and I will be in a better position to know if we are going to be able to cohabit or will need to set up 2 different homes. Logically, I see the point of keeping us in 1 house - I would get a lot more help with the kids, he would see the kids more, and of course, the financial situation would not change. But, if it proves too difficult emotionally, we will have to do something else.
That is the plan for now.
I'm thinking of drawing up an agreement when I get to work today.
Anyway - gots to go.
Thanks for checkin in with my Tryn.
I'm thinking of drawing up an agreement when I get to work today
That kiss didn't seem like an end? cohabitating = LIMBO 3. an intermediate, transitional, or midway state or place.
[This message edited by trynhard at 6:12 AM, January 4th (Tuesday)]
this place needs a little decorating....i'm thinkin a pale but vibrant blue to represent peace....some yellow for brightness, some red for fun, some green for wealth.....ok so this is a colorful place....maybe it should be a flag of some sorts.....
allgood: of course it made you happy that he hasn't given up....that is sometimes the ulitmate rejection.....after all they have done to give up so easily....meanwhile that in itself is the paradox...because to really fight for it he needed to just do right....needed to be the husband he should have been all along....
this is what i live with every single day...a man who insists he is changed...yet the very basics that needed changing remain....and he still insists that this marriage could work.. ......well....uhhh.....NO, I DONT THINK SO......
i actually asked pfm last nite....why should i trust you...what have you done to instill trust....have you been open, honest and completely transparent.....why should i believe anything you say...you lie about anything and everything, how would i know the truth afterall you are the consummate liar, you have lied everyday to me since i met you......
...cohatiation is hard, the fustration level is sometimes through the roof....
and pfm does not only just do stupid well, he seems to be the definition!!!
honest: check in hon....
I am sooooo sorry. It's my turn this time to be angry at your WH and want to shake some good sense into him.
His attitude has been defeatist and fatalistic(sp?) this whole time, like nothing he could do or say would fix the sitch. He's moping around and has done nothing really concrete to fix the situation.
I'm so sorry Allgood. I understand the pain.
....was happy to have a choice....
I truly, truly understand the feelings that go with that!!! When we feel we have a choice, we feel more empowered, feel we can DO something (or not). But as Tryn, often points out to us, we still do have a choice, for ourselves. We have to put that effort for us and our journey with or without our WS's.
I have taken a long, long time to get to this realization.
Allgood, I feel that writing a separation agreement right now is your best course of action. Get what you need NOW when WH is still feeling guilty enough and in the marriage enough to give you what you need. My xWH and I were legally separated for almost 10 years!!!
Perhaps you can state what the "cohabiting" terms are too..... if WH wants to "date", then he needs to find other living accomodations for example?
Allgood, I'm so very sorry. I understand about wanting to see or find something that proved your suspicions all along, but it still hurts. But now, there is a difference. It's more the hurt of grieving and mourning than the devastation we felt initially.
Ats: You and your FWW are in my prayers at this time. This will be a hard thing to go through, but it is so positive that you both realize this and are leaning upon each other. I forgot who said it, but I agree, FWW might "relapse" into some of her former behavior during this stressful time. Please keep that in mind while you are away at the funeral. You may even want to point this out to her ahead of time in a loving and supportive way and that you will be there for her to guide her back to her newfound knowledge and coping mechanisms.
FNF: I loved your post. It was an excellent discussion and very meaningful.
.....the duck is fucked.....
Thank you for sharing these stories about the ducks!! They really make me smile. I absolutely LOVED the pic of the ducklings.
Welcome to all the newbies. Keep posting and venting and purging.
I realize that I must take notes to help me remember what I wanted to say. When I read someone's post, I want to respond immediately to it, but then forget what I wanted to say when it comes time to post!!
Mr. Dishonest will be leaving in a week. I've done quite well with detaching, but I still can get reeled in from time to time and have to remind myself of the reality.
I've been mourning here and there, no major meltdowns. Just very sad sometimes, but not the complete devastation. (although that hovers from time to time)
I'm working on me internally, that is the 180 that I've been implementing. It's not me to be unkind. I'm acting "friendly" but not friends. I don't care if that gives mixed messages to WH. It's not my intention. My intention is to work on me and not worry about what WH is thinking and feeling. I feel mean spirited if I am sarcastic, callous, selfish, and uncaring. I bite my tongue now when I want to respond to some idiotic thing WH says, like "I want to make you happy".... If I take the bait, and respond, we just get into an argument, and that is counterproductive for me. It just gets me upset and is not worth it. I told WH if he does something that is hurtful, I will say so and not take it, like he said something about me caring more for DS 15's activities and sports than DS12's. I told him that it was not true an hurtful for him to say that and walked away.
Love to everyone. You are all in my thoughts and prayers. Next time I will bring my notebook to jot down notes that this combo of "parent brain/senior moments" brain does not allow me to remember anything anymmore.
Tryn: As far as the cohabitating as limbo 3 - I get that, but it's also unavoidable in my eyes. I am not going to drop a bomb like this on my kids in the middle of the school year. There's really no urgency to it. If I start to see that it's negatively impacting my emotional health, than I will change the living situation, but it takes a tremendous amount of money to run my house,pay for child care, etc. and I'm not adding financial strain, along with giving up he help I do get from him with the kids if I don't have to. And, again, it's temporary - as of the summer, there will be no more cohabitating. That would be too confusing for the kids - to know Mom&Dad aren't together - but yet they are...
Forgive: I appreciate your advice, but I feel very strongly about containing the number of people that know about the affair as I believe it will undermine my deep desire to keep this from my kids. Dad is a hero to them. Every kid needs to believe their parents are heroes. I'm not taking that away from them. And, I know plenty of kids that never forgave a parent for stuff like this.
Anyway - he has heard it first hand from mutual friends of ours already- as far as their opinion of his behavior goes.
I'm not trying to fix this man, or cajole him into reconciling "my way". I'm not waiting around. He knows, and I hope he remembers, that I told him that should he get his act together, I would always give it another shot - or I would listen anyway.
And, as far as the agreement goes, unless my H starts running up credit card bills (which I really doubt), I'm actually better off waiting on drawing up papers. So, there's really no rush there - it's just more of something to make it official.
As it is he already called me this morning to ask how the kids got off to school. Which, my plan was to really have no contact with him other than as necessary while we are apart. When we are at home together, so far, I've been treating him like a friend. Cordial, not hostile,casual conversation, but not hanging out with him. I guess after spending half your life with someone, these can be hard habits to break.
Anyhoo - gots to go take care of other people's marital problems now. Lol.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 9:20 AM, January 4th (Tuesday)]
Iwant.. I see you are finally getting in touch with your feelings!!!! Way to go…
Honest... "WH says, like "I want to make you happy".... Tell him, about $100k would do it.. make me real happy.
[This message edited by trynhard at 11:06 AM, January 4th (Tuesday)]
I just read the latest news. I really hate all of this for you. Things like this are why so many of us were mad at your H for going to the party and pissed at your MC for saying it was O.K. for your H to go. I am glad to see that you are trying to handle this in a calm manner.
Sorry to hear about your MIL. I hope you and your W get through these next few day without any extra problems. I know you will tread lightly and support her.
To all the newbies welcome and to the oldies keep on posting. Great reading. I am needing to go back and read the past few days again.
BTW. You all moved while I was out of town! Makes me wonder if you are trying to ditch me. I guess I should be glad that I did not have to do any heavy lifting. I suppose you girls probably hired Cabanna Boys to do that. Again.
Hugs to the tribe.
Good to hear from you. Your voice sounds different. Better somehow... perhaps the reverberation from your armor. :)
Please tell me the dead gift duck wasn't one in your photos. (Not that you would know one from another, necessarily...) I did grow up in farm country, so killin' and eatin' animals is fine by me in theory... not so much when you see photos of frolicking in the grass first.
That is all. I am going through my needs lists AGAIN. Grouping them by topic. Getting all my ducks in a row, so to speak, so as to avoid actually dealing with them. I'm about a week away from my DDay#1 antiversary... weird. Then, eight months later, DDay#2. Not sure how to commemorate either. Cake?
Of course your emotions are in a whirlwind. Deep down, you don't want this. You are looking for a thread of hope and understandably so.
Ok, this is what I suggest. 1. Do a form of 180 that you feel comfortable with. No anger. You don't need that for yourself. Keep yourself as calm and as comfortable as you can. Try not to think about what HE is thinking.
2. Keep your next MC appointment. Decide what you want to discuss, especially for once and for all to ask your WH does HE really want it to be over or not.
A. He wants to R. Then state with MC what it will take.
B. He gives up.
C. You need to decide what YOU want to do. TAKE YOUR TIME. Don't make an emotional decision, or a decision just to stop the pain.
3. I also suggest to go to a few more MC appts, to have MC help you guys decide the terms of the cohabiting/coparenting until summer.
Nell: LOL, there are a lot of chinks in this armor, it really hasn't been forged yet.
Forgive: The kids have mixed feelings about WH leaving. DS 15 can't wait. He loves his father, but he also can't stand him. DS12 sits next to him on the couch every night and hugs him while watching TV.
Usually when WH is here, we get along ok, but today it was like he was trying to start a fight and I wasn't biting, or engaging. Just subtle sarcastic remarks here and there. If you don't mind, I'd like to vent something. I've been holding everything in for 2 weeks. Biting my tongue, but....
I dress conservatively. Always have. I was wearing a blouse today that was a little lower in the front than usual, but....ah....no cleavage. WH says something about how the shirt was too low, etc etc. About being modest. "We don't dress like that"....I said, who's we? He says about his religion, and I said very quietly, NOT sarcastic or angry, "I'm not your religion, and I do dress conservatively."
Now, he's mad. Too bad. I just wanted to explode. Still do. I mean WTF????
I did say to him earlier that it seems like he was trying to pick a fight and if he was upset about something, tell me, but I'm not fighting.
Maybe it's better he was like this today. I was almost getting reeled in and seeing the "ghost" of a thread of hope...... I was pretending and almost believing it.
Honey I am so sorry. I just don't know what to say. We all hope that the smoke we see is not fire but I think you are right - God he is a dickhead!!!! Lots of HUGS - BIG HUGS at this terrible time.
Stay strong. You are getting there. I'm glad you enjoy my duck stories - anything for a giggle in this difficult time for us all.
No the ducks that got the "chop" - there were actually 2 of them- were always destined for the pot - so I didn't post their photos.
On a sadder note 2 baby ducks drowned yesterday! H was devastated. I'll bet none of you knew that can happen when they are very little!!!!!
Can't write much tonight. We are visiting our children.
Things are pretty good between us at present. I am becoming more hopeful. He told me tonight that under no circumstances will he ever cheat again. He said that even if I ended up in a wheelchair and couldn't have sex he would never look at another woman. I asked him again why he did it and he said because he was an idiot. I believe he means this but having said that I am even more determined that if he sins again we are done. I think the more remorseful he is (or appears) the more angry I will be if he cheats again and the easier it will be to kick his arse to the curb.
Love to all
I don't know the extent of his contact with her at the party. I dont' know if his contact with her was even limited to the party. All, I know is I saw a picture of them sitting together at an event I went apeshit over him attending without me. He spend the entire evening texting me how much he loves me, how I can trust him, blah, blah, blah, but yet there he is side by side with OW. It's possible he got up right after the photo was taken, but I do recall now that after the party, when I questioned him about OW, he said she would have had to have approached him for them to have been near each other. So, Mr. Allgood, Mr. Loophole, Mr. "I did not have sexual relations with that woman", that is a lie, not just some techinciality -that you didn't have contact with her because you got up and left.
He knows I don't want this. I really can't say anymore. I want him to do the right thing. But I can't hold his hand and lead him to it. I've done that.
I miss what we had years ago. I miss what we were developing, as rocky as it was. I'm deeply sorry that in a few short months I have to blow my kids world apart and tell them we are divorcing. (I realize it's not my fault in that I'm justified, but I'm still the one pulling the trigger.) I know they will recover and be happy as long as WH and I are able to be civil and respectful of one another. I also have heard enought people say it's the hardest thing they have ever had to do.
On that note, I have to go prepare some lunches.
The end of a marriage is about as hard as anything you will ever face in life. But the neat thing about the end of a marriage means the beginning of something that potentially could bring you great happiness. Think back to the happiest times in your whole life! This could be a year out. That is nothing, no time at all. You are such a beautiful young woman with so much to offer the world.
So did he sign the agreement or not? Go get it done. Ask him sign it. If he does, he wants out. If not, he will FIGHT not to sign it. This will be a indicator. If he fights, TELL him you need Retro with him giving 100% effort and no less! This will be the last attempt to save your marriage. If he signs it, tell him to go live with his lover, ask him to move out. Why fight the pain of an A-hole around.
Let's see... You feel unsafe. You tell him you feel unsafe and he says things that continue to make you think and feel unsafe. Let me tell you, YOU will never feel safe.. EVER. This makes for an unhealthy relationship. You live right now in misery. You have said you have not been treated well for a long time… It continues. A good marriage has a deep sense of trust. Your H crossed your boundary… Now you are fighting to defend that boundary… the consequence is your own happiness. You lose this battle with your own mind, you stay in misery and unsafe. You win, you take steps toward happiness.
I get it. Fear has overtaken you. You are scared that a life of a single woman will bring you pain and extra work. It might. But it might not. You are highly intelligent. Not Average, but highly. You will figure out easy ways to deal with your kids.
Some will try and tell you divorce will have horrible negative effect on the kids. It won’t if you educate yourself on how to approach things.
The fear of single income. Two words, Child support. And I am sure you do alright for yourself.
You will be Ok… Sometimes, life hands us things that don't go according to plan. Protect yourself… pull yourself out of these negative feelings. .
[This message edited by trynhard at 7:00 AM, January 5th (Wednesday)]
Alright, I really have to go be a productive human being today.
mr allgood has been waiting for the shoe to drop, not believing in this reconcilliation from the getgo....giving half effort i think in order to protect himself when all he did was hang himself...so here it is this may be that other shoe....he is too defeatest to see anything but the dropping shoe...
yes they need to go back to mc...as much as we have allgoods back we do not have mr allgood's ear...
mr allgood is being so damned stupid...i hate stupid....it would be one thing if he wanted out, but he doesn't, if he did he would have walked from d-day.....why is it so damned hard for these ws's do just do "right".....they keep making the same stupid choices.....i am so sorry allgood....as ukgirl would say he is a "fuckwit and a fucktard".....
i also know that the text you sent him in response is yet another opportunity for him to "fight" for your marriage....i hope he takes it...i hope he is not taking stupid to pfm's level....
at the very least he did lie about his contact..and he went knowing that this is what you were afraid of....which is probably why he lied..that and not wanting to hear you say "i told you so" or acknowledging that you were right.....which is so damned stupid because if he was honest with you it would have went a long long way to reestablish some kind of trust with honesty.....so so stupid...i think i would like to slap him upside the head now....
allgood...her facebook..did she post anything from the party on....does he know that you have access to her facebook????
honest: you do sound good...stronger, more resigned...so yay for you...keep doin what you are doin cause its workin...
and the shirt thing: he is still attempting to control you, to assert himself "over" you...and in his own warped way show you that he cares enough to regulate your clothing...yet another manipulation..
laura: i learned something new, i never knew ducks could drown unless they were sick of course....or unable to tread water for injury or illness....i don't think i ever connected the dots to raising ducks...that they were eventually to be used for "food"....i liked it better when i didn't know that...
"You shouldn't want to trample on the hearts of your little ones."
To me, this is so powerful. I have never forgotten this line. This is what these men and women who engage in these A risk, trampling on the innocent lives of our children. It makes me so f'ing angry. (Now I'm crying.) WTF is wrong with these people???? How is it that any parent can look into the innocent faces of the children they brought into this world and think that escaping into fantasy won't crush these little ones? Where are there hearts????
they never once gave it a second thought fnf....not a one of them ever believed that they would get caught...they don't think like that...for them its a totally separate entity..one has nothing to do with the other....a perfect example of this it the workaholic...so wrapped up in his own life working for his family only to wake some day and the family is gone..he was too busy working to see it happening....well actually that is not a perfect example because the workaholic as misguided as he may be does have the intentions of doing good for his family, the ws has the intention of making himself feel "good" at the possible expense of the family....they just don't see the "possible" part....it truly, i don't think ever enters their minds...
nell: you sound good, proactive is always good...keeping your sense of humor is key sometimes to get through the dark that threatens to overtake us....so yay nell....
your anitversary:...reclaim it with something else...reclaim the dates...don't give them more power then already hold if you can...and yes i know so much easier said then done...so much easier..