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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 22
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, January 11th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It takes work, because so many subjects need to be covered about marriage, love, the why’s, the seeing a wounded soul, forgiveness, dealing with emotions, etc…

Tryn,

Your lists of what a truly remorseful spouse does . . . my WH does all of those things.

But I still don't trust him or respect him.

Any thoughts?

Allgood -- sounds like you're doing well, considering the situation.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, January 11th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

to see pics of her, etc.
I'm better off without it and so are you.

I will preface with I know this is easier said than done, and that this is a case of do as I suggest, not as I done.

It is important that we as BS put away the OP. They will always be stored in our basement or attic (choose the appropriate analogy), but if we keep getting them out to look at they stay fresh. They need to be left in a corner where they can be forgotten, over time dust can accumulate on them blurring their features, and if we are lucky, some water will seep in leading to a nasty growth of mold on them. Over time, newer memories will be stored on the top of these OP memories, requiring that we actively look for them if we have a need to review them.

Getting to indifference with the OM has been one of the difficult parts of R, and I am not there completely. For a long time, there were pictures of FWW and her last OM available on the internet. I shared one of these during the "great picture posting debacle" last month. Knowing these photos were available, I would pull them up and stare at them. They are now gone from the internet, and I have deleted all of my copies, along with photos he had taken of her on trips. As of the 20th, the entire online cellular phone records from her A times will be gone. This is a good thing, no more sorting through the calls and texts trying to figure out the days they met, trying to evaluate what was going on based on call/text lengths and volumes. I have deleted all of my copies of the phone records. I still have a copy of her April disclosure of details on my journal. I will eventually delete that, I am just not ready yet.

Ironically, it was being with BIL at the funeral that led me to indifference towards him. He is a pathetic man. I could observe who he is, and the state of his relationships with his family. I no longer have any desire to confront him, or hear from him. In a similar way, while I dislike contact with the first OM when it occurs at my work, it serves to remind me that he too is not on my level in career, appearance, nor personality. All he had going for him was availability and a willingness to accept what a married woman and mother was willing to provide him. The last OM remains an enigma for me. She stayed with him for over 2 years, longer than we dated before we married. Her behavior with him was the most outrageous to me, and his presence in her life was right out in the open for me to see. I still feel anger towards him, and some of the things she said about him in the early period after dday still haunt me. I do want to confront the uncle who abused her and played such a role in warping her sense of self and sexuality.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, January 11th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m334455,

my WH does all of those things.

But I still don't trust him or respect him.

Tryn will answer well for himself, but here is my observation. The WS must change who he or she is to have a successful R. It is not enough for the WS to be more this or less of that, he or she must change at a core level if the BS is going to feel safe for the future. If it is the same personality being more loving or flirting with others less, I would still feel unease. The WS may tire of these extra efforts or begin to resent having to be so "nice". Acute stress in their life may cause them to revert to time tested ways of soothing or affirming themselves.

When I reflect on the examples of apparently successful and sustained R on SI, a common theme seems to be significant change by the WS. Previously untreated mental illnesses is diagnosed and treatment followed, addictions were diagnosed and treated, personality and FOO issues were identified and helped with IC, etc. In nearly every case, it appears the WS is no longer the same person. Their perceptions, their thought processes, their coping mechanisms have all been altered to a healthier state.

FWW is still a work in progress, but she is no longer the person she was. Some of this I miss. The child-like qualities that first attracted me to her; they are gone. That is OK because they were a result of her FOO issues. She now has better coping mechanisms for managing stress. She has a much deeper insight into the impacts of her FOO, and is more aware of their impact on her perceptions and thought processes. She could allow herself to go down a self-destructive path in the future, but she will never “backslide” into the person she was before. That person is gone.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, January 11th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell: I hope you have a nice time with WH. Just have fun and try to enjoy your time together.

Allgood: lol, you should call me out. My baby step for myself this week is to register for one of the tests that I was talking about taking! Finally.
Your description of what your WH says sounds like mine. Your WH is not used to change and doesn't know how or doesn't want to get out of his safety zone.

Laura: Thank you for sharing your story about the butterflies. They are so beautiful. They look like Monarchs. What kind are they?
You and all the Aussies are in my prayers. What a horrible thing to go through!! I pray everything will be ok.

Miracle: I'm glad that the kids remembered their manners!!

This reminds me of a story with my oldest son when he was around 13. He had started talking "fresh" and "talking back" to me and

I said, "Why is it that all your teachers and your friends' parents all sing your praises and say how polite and helpful you are and you act like this to me?"

DS: "I'm sorry, Mom, but it's hard to keep it up all day. I know it's not fair to you, but when I come home, I just want to relax and let go. I'll try to do better."

LOL, but he was right. We do tend to take our families for granted. But I told him and his brothers, that we should also treat the ones we love with as much consideration as we give to strangers!!

All my kids were like that as teens, but "did me proud" at school, and with other people.

Don't worry, Miracle. Once they reach their 20's, teens become human again!


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, January 11th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, the boob discussion was interesting. Since so many gave self descriptions I feel that I should join in. Equal rights. I am flat chested. It really does not bother me and I have no plans to have breast implants. Yet.

I do have to say. I like big, med, and small. On women that is. BTW, I married a pair of 36 D.

ats.

I'm glad to see that things are going so good. You both went through a big minefield these past weeks. I did notice that you are still bothered by some things. Remember, it is all about baby steps and time.

Did you get out there and grill in the snow? I have some snow and a wind chill around zero. I am thinking about cooking out this evening. My W is not wanting me to. She probably is afraid it will somehow make me sick and then she will have to take care of me.

m3.

I really did like the Santa and Baby Paddy picture. I was sad when that pic went away. I'm not tryn, and I'm sure his answer will be much longer and better, but to answer your question, I would guess you still feel that way because you are still PISSED. It is hard to trust or respect someone when you are PISSED.

Laura.

I was not around for all the boob talk. Most of that was going an when my W was around and I don't do SI when she could walk by and spy on what I am reading. If she saw me communicating with a bunch of women on the internet about boobs, I think she might get the wrong idea. The shit would hit the fan and Dip would be in the dog house. I did like the pictures of thse butterfly. Keep dry and I hope the rain lets up.

miracle.

You double posted five times? No wonder everytime I don't come here the LTA topic has advanced two pages. You need to find the cure for this problem. Now before you get all mad and upset with me, remember that this was said with much love and affection.

Allgood.

I think that the WS has a very hard time understanding just how much this betrayal has changed their BS. They seem to think that they are still the same person that you thought they were. We look at them in a different way and this changes us.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, January 11th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl-
I know exactly how you feel. I have been obsessed with the OW...for a veriety of reasons...mainly because it was a 5 yr LTA but also bacause I met her husband, I spoke to him , I know a lot of details about the MOW,I know that she was a serial cheater, that she had a LTA years ago. The other man's marriage was destroyed her husband found out and had forgiven her....

and what does this woman do?

well, she has another LTA with a married man!

I think that maybe if she were an innocent bystander-an OW who did not know he was married etc. etc. I might feel differently.

But, this woman is the predatory spider who gets her kicks specifically from having affairs with married men. So, the obsesssion continues.

I am getting better about it all but, I still do check up on her.
She's hiding on Facebook-does not have a pic up and does not have lots of friends etc.
And,I still have my 'LTA file' filled with all of the evidence that I gathered post d-day.
I keep it in my bedroom closet.
I just can't give that file up.
I know I should throw it all away, etc.
But,I'm just not ready for that step yet.

Even after 4 yrs. I still feel the need to hold on to this 'proof' of the affair...


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, January 11th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M3...
But I still don't trust him or respect him.

Any thoughts?


Well.. Trust is a decision. You can decide to trust. It starts with a commitment to yourself... I will have confidence or faith in my spouse again. You can even tell them that... Then you "do" things that are trustworthy. But then you make sure you have healthy boundaries.. Protect them!

I think iwant says Trust must be earned. Yes, that is true. Why would you give someone trust when they just time and time take advantage of that trust, place your owe health at risk, both mental and physical... You just don't give that person trust.

But if you R, then you must give your spouse trust! It is a must. A deep sense of trust is a must. I am starting to really trust my W. Trust is both and emotional and logical act. It start with making you mind up to trust.

You can give trust and let go... As ast says.. it is up to our spouses to decide if they want to take advantage of that trust again. If they do, you will know.... We learn.

Yep Dip.. We had a great time at the game. It was fun except that last kick. Great dinner, friends, and goofing off..


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, January 11th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

Three more butterflies hatched this morning. YAY. They are currently hanging around in their house drying their wings. Will fly off this afternoon. Yes honest they are Monarchs. Not uncommon I think but still lovely. We see odd ones of other colours but I can't identify them.

Things are Ok with H and I at present. Have had lots of ups and downs last few days but I suppose I'm getting used to that.

Water is continuing to arrive. Things are really bad in Brisbane and will get very serious. They are now saying 45,000 homes will be inundated!!! There is also a lot of talk about far more bodies to be retrieved from towns and cities hit in last few days. Keep up your prayers people.

My town is OK in main area 17,000 people(protected by levees) but outside low lying homes and farms very much affected. River is currently at 7.6 m. I thought it went over levee at 7.8 but now believe it is at 8.1m. So we have about .5 m to go (20"). If rain in the catchment holds off we will be ok. My in laws are leaving their farmhouse. Water is about 2" off coming in and with predicted rises this afternoon will surely come in. A neighbour is collecting them by boat.

So all OK here.

Dip

Nice to hear your W has good boundaries in place for you - No discussing boobs

Tryn

Trust is the big thing isn't it? I really hope when I am also close to 2yrs out I will feel like you. At the moment I just can't get there.

HUGS to all

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 11:08 PM, January 11th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is not enough for the WS to be more this or less of that, he or she must change at a core level if the BS is going to feel safe for the future. If it is the same personality being more loving or flirting with others less, I would still feel unease. The WS may tire of these extra efforts or begin to resent having to be so "nice".
This makes sense to me too. Like m334455 my FWH appears to be doing so much/everything he can to make me feel safe in our M. But he has taken few, if any, steps to take a good hard look at himself and examine the part of him that enabled him to have a 4+ year A. He says all the right things, but he did that before so really not much has changed. This is a real sticking point for us and I hope to bring it up at our next MC session on Friday.

Update on my friend - her medical tests all came back negative - Thank God! She was a wreck this morning but by this afternoon was able to have a calm conversation with her WH. Please continue to keep her in your thoughts.

Laura - I've been following some of the news about the floods. How awful! I'm relieved to know that your home is safe but your heart must hurt for those you know, or maybe don't know, who have lost their homes. I'll be thinking about you.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 11:08 PM, January 11th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

trust:

yes tryn got my take right...it does have to be earned....it comes in steps, the first step is to decide that you would like to begin to trust again and watch for actions....the actions much match or go beyond what you expect as far as trust is concerned....

and yes it certainly can be earned....when your ws shows total consistency, is completely honest, open and transparent ALL of the time....the trust will come...and it will come in stages.....

the point is..trust needs to be a choice on both parts...you choose to trust, (s)he chooses to be trustworthy.....

and i also believe that for the ws to be trusted that they first must trust the bs with all of who they are....they need to give trust in order to truly recieve it.....

for so long we thought we knew who these people were only to find out that we didn't...some of us found out that we knew nothing and the fabric that is our foundation was completely burned beyond recognition, and still others found out that their were holes in the fabric that made up their lives....one needs to look at the fabric of the relationship...is it mendable....that depends completely on the ws to be completely authentic in who they are now to us the bs....trusting us enough to be vulnerable...to shed all of their protective layers to get to the heart....when the heart is completely open to us it paves the road to trusting them again....there will be areas that trust is not an issue, for some this might be money, others it would be caring for the kids...and others will have not a shred for anything....each area of our lives takes on the choice of whether or not you trust in that area...mending each tear, one at a time...it will never be as it was, but it will still be good and strong....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 1:11 AM, January 12th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Strong

Yes we are ok here but so many are not. You probably saw the family on top of the car. The mother and child are safe but the father is missing. So sad.

My inlaws farm is under including their house. I don't like my in laws. They are shallow people who spend their whole lives trying to be better than others and are very rascist. I haven't spoken to MIL since dday. Never have liked her and am afraid I will blurt it out and tell her! I have always "pretended" to like her for H's sake. Am not prepared to do that now. The only family I really like is this one (the one whose farm is under). Unfortunately, my SIL is not appreciated by her H (my H's brother). She works so hard both on and off the farm (and she has a heart condition!!!) and I don't believe by comments I've heard my BIL make that he appreciates her. I think this is why I feel so close to her. She is one of those "Salt of the earth" people. She doesn't take crap from the rest of the family and is unpopular as a result. I really don't like his family. Maybe that is why we are kindred spirits. None of my H's family know about my H's As. I have been so tempted to tell her because I have so much respect for her but don't want to make her life difficult. I don't want her to have to hide it from her H.

I often think if H dies before me I will tell them - then I feel EVIL. I hate that he is the "nice" one that everyone thinks is such a great person. Everyone really does. His workmates, friends of ours, his family EVERYONE!. I don't believe any of his brothers cheat but still everyone thinks he is so NICE. He is NOT!!! I know I won't do it but I can't help thinking about it.

Anyway. A little down tonight and a tad cranky. Love to all. Will go look at my butterflies. Hopefully will feel better!!!

Love to all esp Ellejay, DP, AGNG and HONEST. You are always in my thoughts

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:11 AM, January 12th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dropping by quickly to send all hopes and wishes to Laura, her family and everyone out there in Australia. The devastation looks horrendous. I do hope the rivers have peaked, the levees held up and no more lives have been lost.

And I know I’m not alone in obsessing about MOW. I hope I can gradually get her to where she belongs – in the trash. I have things I am not ready to get rid of. I think they are the sort of things that I would have binned years ago if H and I had separated and/or divorced. I think it’s because I understand the affair on one level (old gf, nostalgia, lost loves, etc), I don’t understand why he didn’t leave and why it went on for so long if it wasn’t “right”. I really do not understand the cake eating fence sitting lifestyle when it seemed to go against everything I thought my H was. And I am still waiting for MOW to be visited by the karma bus. I just hope she spends the rest of her life in abject misery – that would be enough.

It is important that we as BS put away the OP. They will always be stored in our basement or attic (choose the appropriate analogy), but if we keep getting them out to look at they stay fresh. They need to be left in a corner where they can be forgotten, over time dust can accumulate on them blurring their features, and if we are lucky, some water will seep in leading to a nasty growth of mold on them. Over time, newer memories will be stored on the top of these OP memories, requiring that we actively look for them if we have a need to review them.
Thanks Ats – I’m copying and pasting this as a reminder of where I should be.

Trust – I think we have to learn to trust ourselves first, and maybe see trust in a different way. Without the blinkers.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 1:24 AM, January 12th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Ukgirl

It's so lonely here with all our yank friends in bed. I love it when you post.

I too obsess about OWs esp OW3 - the one he "loved". I look at her FB and am so tempted to write a message to all her friends. I want everyone to know she is a whore. I don't because I know in the long run it will only hurt me. I am highly respected and very well known in our small town. I don't want gossip . I know I shouldn't even think about her but i hate that she is "SO happy" now (as she says on FB) and I am so MISERABLE.

TRUST: I try to be positive but I doubt I will ever really trust him again. 2 years, 5 years, 10 yrs down the track - I suspect he will do it again if it suits him. I wouldn't be surprised. So sad. He had a woman who truly loved him and beautiful children and he treated me like shit. God knows why I am staying. I don't. I kept trying in spite of the way he treated me. He is just so selfish. All that matters is him. I don't think he will change. If only he realised what a great life he could have had. We could have had. He had everything and we could have been so happy. He was such fool. We will see but I don't have high hopes. Without major change - well .....

LOve

laura

[This message edited by Laura28 at 2:30 AM, January 12th (Wednesday)]


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:04 AM, January 12th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Laura
she is "SO happy" now (as she says on FB) and I am so MISERABLE.
I believe you are in misery because you can tell us how you really feel. It is healthy to show hurt and it is unhealthy to pretend nothing is wrong.

I also think your OW could be happy now. Can you imagine being a cheater? Can you place yourself in her shoes and in her mind? Imagine what she must feel like to have been committing a sin, the knowing of the evilness, knowing it is wrong… conflicted for so long and now free from all that. It must be a huge burden to overcome. My W says that a huge weight was lifted off her shoulders. What did she mean by that? She says it is not “greener” committing adultery… Something she regrets, wishes she had done differently. I think when a person is in the act of doing evil, they have some very conflicted, unhealthy emotions. Only when it ends, they can begin to be a peace again. “the weight is lifted”… So maybe she is happy now.


It is ok to be angry about her happiness she advertises.


Can I help you be at peace with these OW? You need to forgive them. If you wish them hate, the hate stays with you. The emotions eat away at you. To forgive is a very hard thing to do. It takes great brain power to overcome. Once you begin, you will slowly grow to accept it. Accepting doesn’t happen quickly, so the sooner you start forgiving, the sooner you will get to a point of acceptance. It is a process.

Forgiveness does not mean you should have any kind of relationship with the cheater. If you have no relationship, you have no feelings about her. There is no need for you to care about her, communicate to her, watch her… You decide if you want to visit her FB. You decide if you want to ride in front of her house, text her (Allgood)… You make the decision to have any type of relationship of any kind… be it in physical presents or in cyber space. You don’t have to even have hide this fact. Just don’t have a relationship of any kind. Don’t do it. Then do things that are forgiving when it comes to her.

Let me give an example of behaviors you need to forgive.

First… forgiveness is a choice… It is not a feeling… It is not anything you can or cannot do unless you decide… hell, I don’t want to. You can make your brain do these things…

1) Make the choice to forgive It starts with a choice by you to act!
2) Make the deliberate and irrevocable choice not to tell anyone what they did. Discuss in you mind, not with your lips
3) Be pleasant to them should you be around them. No need to even say a word, turn and walk away, not with any type of ugly body language.. do it with grace
4) If conversation ensues, say that which would set them free from guilt. Just say, we all make mistakes in life… then walk away
5) Let them feel good about themselves Just don’t communicate in any form, any way don’t do it
6) Protect them from their greatest fears. just don’t communicate! If they fear you or something, just say you forgive them
7) Keep it up today, tomorrow, this year and nextMake a choice in your mind every time to think about forgiving them.. I can do this… then try to force you mind to do something different.
8) Pray for them this is not hard and over time you won’t need to pray for them again because you won’t think about them.. someone else moves on to pray for them… or whatever..


See each and every one of us can do all these things. It takes some brain strength and you may fail occasionally. But you get good at it in time.


I’m sure the results of what I say will lead to a peace. You can make a decision to follow what I have learned or not… it is your decision to lead your own life the way you want… Fact is, when you lose your innocents, you then start to understand, Things happen to us in life.

When I lived in Louisiana, the nasty, alcohol lingering, puke smelly ole New Orleans would also get pouring rain.. even horrible floods. People I know would always say the city needs a good cleansing to wash away all the filth.. nature has a way of cleaning your soul if you let it… Maybe all that rain will help you wash away your fears... Stay dry my Aussie Friend…

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:37 AM, January 12th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, January 12th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgiveness and trust... such easy topics broached here.

I would like to trust WH. I'm watching to see if I should (logically). So far, I can trust WH with some things, but I feel that he is still lying about some things (example: I have recurring thoughts of wanting to put a VAR in his vehicle) and know he is still lying about others (example: he uses a "privacy" setting on his computer to look at porn occassionally and he holds back information from me that he thinks will be hurtful or inconsequential). He is not an open book. He does not show me all of himself. I'm not sure who gets to see all of him. Maybe his twin brother. The rest of us get the pieces he wants us to see. I think he doesn't trust that I will stay with him if he shows me everything.

So, no, I don't trust him yet. I think he will stay with me (physically) if I show him everything; I just don't know if he will care for the parts that he doesn't like. KWIM? I used to feel that I could be authentic with him; it was a very big factor in my decision to be with him at the beginning of our relationship. Slowly I learned that there are big parts of me that he wants nothing to do with. The less-than-perfect/perky/happy parts. The vulnerable parts.

Forgiveness. I will eventually forgive WH. I'm on the road, though my anger puts huge roadblocks in the way that I have to overcome. I wash my hands of his AP. She has never meant a thing to me, but she's left 50% responsibile for creating this horrible stinking mess in my family's history. I believe she's an unhappy, dysfunctional woman; I believe that she's teaching her child some very crappy lessons about male/female relationships; I believe that she'll always be unhappy because of her core beliefs and attitudes. I'm letting God/karma/the universe deal with her. I haven't the time or inclination to worry about her. I do pray that her son somehow finds his way through his childhood and becomes a healthy, happy adult.

I also need to forgive myself and that part is more difficult. I was very stupid for a long time; accepted far less than what I deserved, etc. Am figuring myself out, though.

Yesterday was good. Because WH didn't actually plan anything, we ended up not being able to go to the art museum so we went on a brewery tour instead. I couldn't figure out WH's thought process on this, but then remembered that we did that when we were first dating. I think he was trying to recreate that. Go back to when things were good. There were several very meaningful "I love you"s given to me and I think WH means it. Which is nice for him to feel, and necessary for R. So, anyhoo... it was fun because I made it fun.

Thank you all for your good thoughts.

Must go get ready for work.

Laura, those monarchs are lovely! Good for you for putting butterflies in the world!


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, January 12th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell…
I also need to forgive myself and that part is more difficult. I was very stupid for a long time; accepted far less than what I deserved, etc. Am figuring myself out, though.

Should a child need to forgive themselve after being told by a rapist priest that the sex is something good, supposed to be..? I would think not. Forgive yourself for what? Be proud of who you were! I take great pride in all the times I did not eat the apple…

It is 100% on the spouse to communicate in an effective way so we “get it” what they need.. what they want of us.. what they need from us for their own happiness.. This is why something like Retrou is so important. Over time in every M, we seem to lose our ability to share how we really feel. We hide. We seem to think our spouses "think this or that".. right Allgood.. we think, I know my spouse won't do this or that.. why? because I know them and know what they think. But how can we possible know what they think unless they tell us in a way we fully understand. Only then we can make a good choice. Let me give you an example... I need sex everyday. This is the only way I can be happy in my life. If you cannot give it to me, then I will find it with someone else Simple huh?If compromise cannot be made. Then you take the pain of end.. and new beginnings. That is the right thing to do for your own happiness. Easier said than done I can assure you.

Which is also the reason your spouse is 100% responsible for picking the apple. Only if OW would have held him hostage in some way.. If you don’t have an affair with me, I will kill all your kids! I will beat you up if you don’t have sex with me! Nope, unless you gave your H permission to have an affair. It falls 100% on him.

I struggled for months and months blaming myself. Much of it was because the reasons my W told me about her A just were excuses that I could not understand...With her attempt to somehow keep some self-dignity. I let her keep some dignity by my choice. It boils down to greed and selfishness. It's no different for your H Nell. It was a long time before I got my lion back… lol Dip knows… The lion in this vision meant many things to me... Can you get your Lioness back? Knowing and understanding affairs are very important toward you own healing.


My art.. my Dopamine

Have a good day my friends.. Let me go see if I can produce some dopamine..

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:46 AM, January 12th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, January 12th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning all.

Well, apparently 11 days is how long my H can go without sex. Lol.

In the middle of the night, I guess he thought I would be sufficiently out of it not to stop him. Not! Lol.

We spoke briefly about it this morning. Fact is, we've been getting along a lot better, things are easier and lighter around the house since I no longer have any expectations of him/us.
Same old story - I told him to stop saying he wants R, but.... (fill in excuses, fear that it won't work,etc). If he wants R, that should be the end of the sentence. He should have a plan of how to get there. He admits he has no plan.

I feel the need to tell him to just make a decision already, but I have to remind myself that I am making the decision not to wait.
Problem is, I know he's not going to come up with anything by himself.

O well.

Nell - glad u survived the big day.

Peace to all.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, January 12th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura: I am keeping you and your family in my prayers with those horrendous floods. I'm glad that you have those gorgeous butterflies to help lift your spirits!

Allgood: Hopefully your WH is finally starting to see how serious this is and you are not just in a transient anger mode!

Nell: At least your WH is making some attempt to reconnect with you. I hope he continues.

Forgiveness can be given when we feel that we are no longer being hurt. If the bad behavior is still occurring, it's almost impossible to do. If the person is still hitting me, I first have to get away from it and protect myself before forgiveness can occur.

As for the OW, I was able to stop thinking about xWH's OW. I just didn't think about her. I saw her on a few occassions before dday and found out that she was a barfly who had a history of going after married men. I just dismissed her in my mind. She was more of a "drinking buddy" with benefits for xWH.

Presently, WH and OW are still at it, so forgiveness is near to impossible at this point in time. I am not dwelling on it, although I'm still at the point of comparing myself to OW. It's hard not to.

Well, got to get the kids out and shovel the 13" of snow that fell last night. At least they got a snow day.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, January 12th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Alright - none of u popped in to keep me staight - so I let my impatience get the better of me (lol - did I even wait 10 minutes?) and texted him.

I just asked if he thinks our relationship is over or not? (This is what I've been struggling with - I keep telling him it's over, have taken actions consistent with that, yet he seems to act like this is just a fight or something.) I guess that I have told him Im keeping the door open for him to change my mind by stepping it up is confusing.
Anyway - he says he doesnt want to think its over, he loves me too much, but if we are not going to be happy, we need to talk about what to do.
I proposed we talk tomorrow night.
I'm really at a loss tho because a lot of what I have to say is not different from what I've said before. A lot of it is hard to describe - my overall feeling that he's just going thru the motions, etc.
Even if we come to an agreement, I don't really want to go back to actively reconciling (until I see some sign of improvement or renewed effort from him), butat the same time I realize that he cant reallly show me he's changing, trying, etc. unless we are in R.
Damn. I think I just made a whole big confused mess of this.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 10:22 AM, January 12th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest - we cross-posted - I forgot to tell you Good job on deciding to take thecourse/exam.
very good.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
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