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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 22
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, January 12th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgoodnamesgone,

I checked in while waiting for some laundry to finish in the wash and saw your post.

I believe that you want to feel that Mr. allgood puts you and your M ahead of other his buddies and priorities in his life. You cannot give an adequate list to describe all of the changing and specific individual needs. At some point, he has to figure this out.

I do think it is fair for you to say that you want to be able to tell him how you feel (good or bad) without him getting defensive or dismissive. You want the same from him, and want to not be defensive or dismissive to his feelings. If getting there takes MC, OK. You want to feel safe that the A is over. He knows in his mind, but you are guessing based on what you see through a cloudy window. You want NC with OW, ask him how he can demonstrate this. Ask him how, in retrospect he could have handled the x-mas party differently to ensure you were a priority and feel safe. Use the party as a learning example of what not to do. Tell him that to feel safe you need to know that he knows why he had an A, broke NC, and what steps he is taking to ensure this does not happen again.

There, that should burn your hour.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 1:42 AM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

Tryn

Thanks so much for your thoughts on trust, obsessing over OW and forgiveness.

I believe you are in misery because you can tell us how you really feel. It is healthy to show hurt and it is unhealthy to pretend nothing is wrong.

I think this is why I am so exhausted all the time. I don't want to constantly expose my H to my misery - it would only bring him down. So my SI friends get it!!! Thanks for being such wonderful shoulders to lean on!

I also think your OW could be happy now. Can you imagine being a cheater? Imagine what she must feel like to have been committing a sin, the knowing of the evilness.. and now free from all that.

I have to say I have not thought of this at all. Whenever I think of her I always imagine her plotting to suck my H back in. I know she did try after dday. He told me that she came to him and told him she would "forgive" him for cheating on her with OW2. (She kept forgetting he also had a WIFE!!!) Perhaps you are right though. I hope so. I just want her out of our lives.

OW1 (16yrs ago) has no remorse at all. She told me herself!! I don't think about her much even though the PA turned into an EA for more than half our marriage - 16yrs(and all of her 2nd marriage - 10yrs). I don't see her as any threat - she's very happy with her current H -and suppose I just despise her.

OW2 is very remorseful. I pity her. She left her H for mine and has been separated for 6yrs (with my H for 8 yrs). She often suggested to my H that she would like to be dead. She has no friends and hates her job at the hospital. She is a very sad disfunctional woman. She is actually very intelligent, attractive and has travelled widely. Now she is a jibbering mess doped up on ADs and drunk most nights. I guess the karma bus has really hit her!!!

Now here's something interesting. My H is working outside and after typing above I started to wonder if she ever threatened to kill herself if my H didn't leave me, or visit more or whatever. I just went out and asked him. He told me that she had never done that but he was afraid she was going to kill herself - and this is why he sometimes rang her 4 or 5 times in one day even after he started with OW3. He then said she was suicidal after I found out. HEEELLLOOOO???? I asked "How do you know if you weren't talking to her?" he told me he had spoken to her once or twice and that a few weeks after dday she had offered to give him her mobile so he could keep in touch without my knowing. I bit my tongue and did not ask "Why are you only telling me this now???" That would discourage him from telling me things!!!A little more TT. Sigh!!!! Well at least he told me.

She often used to phone me to chat (she looked after me when I had the heart attack and said she really liked me - thought in other circumstances we could have been friends). I used to let her talk to pump her for info but don't any more. I often wondered what would happen if I turned nasty and tore into her. I wondered if this might even be enough to push her over the edge. Resisted the temptation - wouldn't want that on my conscience.

So, ONE unremorseful bitch, and ONE suicide case and ONE predator. Interesting mix. I really doubt having thought about it that any of them have a conscience!!!

Nell

he holds back information from me that he thinks will be hurtful or inconsequential). He is not an open book. He does not show me all of himself.

I'm starting to think my h never has. So much for "soulmates". I think I'm starting to realise that I never had a real marriage. I don't know if you remember me talking about OWzero. She was on the scene 22 years ago. I'm not even sure I gave you the details. They are too painful. He explainded her away and I bought it. To this day he insists they were "just friends". Anyway there may have been lots of OWs that I don't know about through our 28 yrs marriage (I actually had suspicions when we were engaged!) So does it matter now? I don't know. Probably not. What ats and tryn keep saying about the people our Ss are now as being most important is what sustains me. I suppose I'm still trying to work out just who that is. I was hoodwinked for so long I really don't know what was true and what was smoke and mirrors.

There were several very meaningful "I love you"s given to me

Sounds like he really did try Nell. So happy for you

AGNG

Same old story - I told him to stop saying he wants R, but....

Stick to your guns honey. There can be no buts!!!!

Miracle

i truly have no regrets for the choices i have made.

I need to get to this point. I want our marriage to work but am so often overwhelmed by the thoughts of "what if..." as in we had not married. Would I have had a REAL partner? Or maybe I would have had a series of WSs!!! I keep trying.

Nell

Still trying to absorb all you wrote. Thanks

Butterfly Update:

8 new bables hatched this morning. I promise no more pics after this one I took it and wanted to show it to you all because it shows all stages - little caterpillar, big caterpillar, new chrysalis, old chrysalis (ready to hatch), empty chrysalis shells, newly hatched butterflies hanging. Most of today's crop have flown away now. I love them!!! I can now look out in my yard and wonder if the ones I see are some of my babies.

Love to all

Laura

[This message edited by Laura28 at 9:26 PM, January 13th (Thursday)]


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:54 AM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How about "I will kill myself?" That one was used to great effect.
One of the reasons he carried on was because he thought she would out the affair to me. And then that she would self harm. And then that she might, just might, kill herself. But she was just upping the ante. Some of her pathetic texts after dday referred to that Ė her drinking, her ADís, how she couldnít live without him. Oh, and she was a victim ĖWH did this to her, boo-hoo. I didnít care, I just wanted her gone. Nice little fucking vent, Nell!!.

Because she has identified and talked about the things that led her to wanting and participating in an A, it is easier for me to see that she has changed and those things are in the past. Because she has been NC since dday, I feel safe and do not need to verify. Because she does not get defensive (sad maybe, never defensive) when I talk about the A, I feel much less need to talk about them. It breaks my heart what she did, but there is no sense in berating FWW for that, she is no longer that person.
Just what my WH/FWH has not done. I know your FWW has a LOT of FOO issues that led her to be the person she became, but lack of FOO issues should not be a reason for my H not stepping up and taking some ACTION.

I have a problem with the way I see my H now. The odd thing is, when he was in the affair, he was still had all the ďmanlyĒ attributes I found attractive and made me feel safe. He was confident, purposeful, focused, in control, he had a certain edge (which probably came from trying to keep everything under control), he was often happy (as well as being angry for no reason), he bought me nice presents, took me for special dinners, worked hard and was driven at work. He won everything at golf (when he was actually playing golf.....) He walked upright and with self assurance (arrogance?). He could take on the world while protecting me from it. But there was this other side to him. He was distant much of the time. He would pick fights over nothing. Sex was often just sex. He seems to have aged a lot and (dare I say it? - whisper) turning into his fatherÖÖ.. and I donít like it.

Ats, I realised after dday that I was holding the emotional reins in the relationship, so his lack of empathy shouldnít come as a surprise. He usually says the right things, but only in response. He doesnít do or offer anything himself and thatís why Iíve kind of given up. I really believe he has a problem with the women in his life. MOW and I decided who he should be with. Not him. Heís just not pro-active and I donít know why that is. Which is one reason he should have IC. But he wonít.

So, I should not give specifics, or tasks to do. Should just explain how I feel and what I need?
I think you need an outline. A written outline with bullet points. He should do one, you should do one. Have a look at the marriagebuilders website. I seem to remember they had some good discussion points re needs.

Iíve just seen the time and Iím sooo behind on my day already. I'm a bit introverted today and just realised this post is not offering much. I'll get some mo-jo from the gym.

(((((tribe)))))

[This message edited by UKgirl at 4:56 AM, January 13th (Thursday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:39 AM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood-I would keep it simple.

First,the big question: Does he want to save the marriage?
Yes or No?

Then, If his answer is a DEFINITIVE yes the next question should be what is he planning on doing to save the marriage and repair the damage done by his affair and other behaviors.

Then....after listening to his ideas....
You can add some of the things that are on your list.
I would keep that list simple and very direct.

My list would include IC, stopping drinking (preferably with AA),stopping all contact with toxic friends (co-workers and outside of work),
spending more time home and with his children and wife, and finally MC.

Oh yeah, I forgot...total transparency-ex. phone bills, email passwords, etc. etc.

And..if his answer is No....
that he's not prepared to do any of these things or doesn't want to work at saving the marriage...
then my advice would be to separate ASAP.
Waiting till summer sounds nice but, trust me...the next few months living together will be hell.
As a teacher... I predict that your kids will be OK if he quietly moves out... tell them its work related or something like that at first...
just in case both of you have a change of heart later.

A calm, peaceful, organized household...with an intact routine is what the kids need and want.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:09 AM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you everyone for your comments.
I asked H last night if he was preparing for our talk at all and he said no. So, I just said, well, it's a pretty important discussion, don't you think? He agreed. I left it at that and left the room.
I'm not expecting him to bring much to the table and I am going to check the marriage builders site (UKGirl - I did check that link you sent me re love dare), incorporate the ideas you all have given me and form some sort of outline.

Before I read your comments this morning, my approach was going to be to begin with the photo, because NC is a must and if that can't be accomplished, for whatever reason (he still has feelings, still thinks he can be friends with her, doesn't agree that light chit chat is inappropriate, etc) there's no sense in discussing anything else. I want him to be candid about that night with me.
Then, the next topic would've been that he has to be completely honest - example - how he wasn't honest about this - how he is still filtering things.
Then, the final point was going to be how he has to be more proactive about the reconciliation.
Got to go.
Thanks again for your responses, sorry I can't be of help to anyone else lately, but you are all in my thoughts.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 7:22 AM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura: What a fantastic photo of the butterflies!!!

And just to chime in on the OW talk, I've spoken to her once and texted her once. On both occasions she has taken responsibilty, apologized and has not uttered a bad word about my H. WHether she was sincere or not is a different question.

Alright. Peace all.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

gots only 2 minutes or less...

allgood: there really is nothing for him to prepare for this discussion....he needs to show up and speak from his heart...and i'm thinking that when it comes to speaking from his heart...he doesn't know how....emotionally i don't believe he has a clue.......

ok...gotta go i will be back later...laura...we need to touch more on the what if's thing....and btw love that picture...and i love that it shows all the stages in one shot...and so many pretty butterflies too...


(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle:

....he needs to show up and speak from his heart...and i'm thinking that when it comes to speaking from his heart...he doesn't know how....emotionally i don't believe he has a clue

That is exactly why I asked him if he was prepared. I know he is so completely out of touch with his feelings, doesn't really seem to be dealing with reality as far as what it means for us to split, plus a host of other stuff.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood. This is his fight to fight now, not yours. What you have to say to him should be very short and very clear. Think of the lists of boundaries that Tryn makes. No more prodding, etc. Stop the chase. Make him feel you gone. You're almost mothering him here. Just let him go. Let it all go. What I'd probably say in your situation is I wont be in a relationship with someone who does X, Y, or Z. It's that simple.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgoodnames,

I know he is so completely out of touch with his feelings...

If his answer to the question "Do you want this marriage to work and survive?" is yes, then a primary first step is for him to attend IC to learn to identify and communicate his feelings. He needs to do this before MC can work. The two of you cannot discuss how you feel and negotiate a safe and nurturing marriage if he is unable to articulate his feelings. If shame, fear, and anxiety all come out as anger (or withdraw), there is no good way for the two of you to work through these things.

On an older topic,
FWW and I talked last night about the time during her A's. She told me again how during the A's she would become disgusted with herself and vow to rededicate herself to the M. Just before dday she had again reached this point. She would try to be a good wife, try to go NC with the OM, but it never worked. She was never able to break it off with OM#1, until OM#2 appeared. No matter how hard she tried to be a better wife, until she addressed her miss-perceptions, poor coping mechanisms, and fear of intimacy, it would never work. This is why I say the WS has to change in a fundamental way.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell -- sorry Paddy is a trigger. That's not her real name!

Thanks about the dimples. :) Left over remnants of my pregnancy-induced beachball head, LOL.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I asked H last night if he was preparing for our talk at all and he said no.

Allgood, you have gotten so much wonderful advice but I think the most important piece of advice came from M3.
Allgood. This is his fight to fight now, not yours.

You have spent the last 18 months holding his hand, telling him what you need in order to save your M, holding back your own feelings and anger in order to keep the peace and (please forgive me for this) where has it gotten you??
There is only one language an unremorseful, selfish and immature WS understands. That is the language of action. You have repeatedly told us that he tells you how he doesn't want the M to end but doesn't back it up with his actions.
I am going to offer advice that I'm not sure you're ready to take but I so wish you were. It is time Allgood, for you to back up your words with actions. More talk IMHO is a waste of your time and emotions.
As you have repeatedly been saying, you keep telling him the same things over and over but he still isn't getting it. What does this say to you? He doesn't believe you are ready to give up on the M and so he'll keep misbehaving and giving you token attention until you are ready to play hardball.
None of us who discovered our S's LTA's ever wanted to give up on the M. All of us loved our S's, wanted to keep our families intact and I, for one, never liked the idea of being alone. But look over the success stories in our little corner of SI. (And by success I mean absolute 100% change in a FWS's attitude and commitment to R and the M.)
NJGal separated for 6 months. ATS moved out. I delivered a Separation Agreement with the terms of D clearly spelled out that he was required to take to his attorney. HurtShirley (one of our oldtimers) had her H move into an apartment over their detached garage. This is the tough love that unfortunately is required for some FWS'S and none of these steps were idle threats. They were ACTIONS and as the saying goes, Actions speak louder than words.
Until our S's realize that we are prepared to follow through none of them (and there are many examples on this site to prove this) will take actions to commit to R until they fully and clearly see the ultimate consequences of their lack of engagement in the R process.
As I've said, you've gotten wonderful advice here but I'm going to give you my advice for tonight - not that you've asked but I just felt so compelled to say this and I beg you to forgive me if any of what I am saying has offended you.
When you sit down for tonight's meeting I would ask your H again, "Have you prepared for our talk?" If he answers No again I would get up and walk away.
In addition, if your H isn't already in his little room that he was setting up for himself, I would make sure it was completely prepared for him and tell him as your walking out of the room that these are now his accomodations until the summer at which time he will be expected to move out. End of discussion!!!
But then that's just me and I know hardball is a lot tougher to play when you have 4 little ones to worry about.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 2:12 PM, January 13th (Thursday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood:

It occurred to me that your WH is probably acting like a kid getting sent to the principal's office.

I've thought about your sitch, and realized that I truly feel that it should be just simple, and it did work with my WH to have him open up a bit:

Say:

" I feel we do love each other. I don't want to hurt you, and I really believe you don't want to hurt me."

Give him a chance to respond.

Tell him: "I love you and I really feel if we both work at it, we can R. Our old marriage is dead. We can build a new relationship. It will be hard work, but worth it."

Pause

Say: "I need to know, do you want to R or not? Yes or no? I will not be mad at whatever your answer is, just please tell me."


Allgood, this is a very important discussion. I wouldn't come armed with lists or anything at this particular time. Your WH needs to feel safe saying what he wants and not as a reaction to what he may perceive as an argument.

To tell the truth, if WH says yes, just tell him it will be hard work, but do not discuss it anymore at this point. Tell him you'll talk about what plans you and he will make tomorrow.

Just some thoughts, Allgood.

Laura, WOW!! Thank you so very much for sharing that beautiful photo!! You should write a book, or a how to book or a blog about this.

I LOVE this photo showing all the stages at once. I've never seen such a fantastic example of all the stages at once, it is so beautiful.
Now, UKgirl, you need to write a poem about this!

How appropriate... the caterpillars going through the metamorphisis. That is what we are all doing here. We are surviving, but can change to wonderful creatures who are free from pain and enjoy the world, minute by minute.

{{{{tribe}}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood.

Good luck. I'm not sure if this applies, but just remember, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." I know you are getting tired of being that wheel but hopefully if he hears this enough he will figure out how to fix the problem.

Hugs to the tribe.

Dip.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km85F_GuloY
I heard this song for the first time this morning and it struck a chord with me (no pun intended). It kind of backs up what I believe with all my heart. Once a BS begins to know deep inside that they're going to be ok, that they can survive on their own and that it will get "better in time" and their FWS sees this change in the BS, then the FWS who really does want to make the M work finally has the motivation to step up. If the FWS sees weakness in the BS, they continue to play with the BS's emotions by only giving the bare minimum required. Just MHO.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura, I do hope you continue to be safe and your family as well. We are getting frequent news coverage on the devastation and it is heartbreaking. I'm so glad you are on high ground. Please keep us posted on your safety. Also wanted to add that I love your butterflies. Keep the pictures coming!
As to your question:
I know you will never forget but do you think you have forgiven?

I do believe I have forgiven my H to the best of my ability but because I refuse to forget, there is always some residual negativity. Forgiveness for me is not so much about a "feeling" but about my actions toward my H. I no longer rage at him , I no longer call him horrible names, I no longer remind him of what he did. I no longer call his OW the awful names I used to or remind him of how pathetic I think he was (and everyone else who knew who this person was) to have gone so low by choosing her. When triggers come on where I once might have attacked him (verbally that is) or made cruel and nasty remarks I no longer do this either. That's not to say I'm not tempted but I feel it is absolutely necessary to behave in loving ways and to speak respectfully to each other no matter how badly we hurt. R is so difficult for us as "victims" of LTA's but it is possible. And no matter how justified I felt in those early months to rage and berate and attack, I knew I had to work very hard to overcome the extremes of my anger and pain if I really was serious about R. Forgiveness is both a choice and a process. It can be done but it takes time and, depending on the level of betrayal, the time it takes can be well over a year - at least it was for me.
M3 - I'm so sorry I missed the picture of baby Paddy and yourself. I would have loved to have seen her - she sounds absolutely adorable.
I hope she is doing well and making progress. Our little babies are so precious (no matter how old they are).
Honest - How are you holding up since your H's return?? I was glad to see that you signed up for that class but mostly that you are feeling stronger and less vulnerable to him. (((Honest)))
UKG - I can relate so much to how you described the changes in your H post d-day. Mine too seems to deflated at times. He has lost that aggressive, self-confident, cocky air and now can be withdrawn and quiet and I wonder sometimes about the price we both paid for his A. So sad really.
I do hope you have that talk with your H. I'd love to hear that he opened up a little more to you - you, and all of us deserve so much more.
Hugs to the tribe!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all, very, very much.

I really cant thank you all enough because I've been really anxious about this all day.

I am going to re-read everyone's posts before approaching WH. (I had cut & pasted everyone's comments from yesterday to help me create an outline, so I will have to update that now.) But, here is the main thrust of what I believe everyone is saying "Actions speak louder than words" as applies to us both.

I am prepared to put together an agreement if this talk turns out the way I think. I really need to think about the terms as I am not really prepared to throw him out unless it is affecting my ability to move on. (As in every other way, it makes more sense for us to co-exist, with the separate bedrooms.)
But, that is really an issue for another day. Today is to determine if it's time to go or not and as much as I want to say, if you should ever pull your head out of your ass, I would always be willing to disucss reconciling, because that is how I feel (right now at least), I'm not going to say it because it just muddies things up.

Ok, I gotta go & I see I've already lost my focus, so I will this again later.

Thank you all again.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To me this song states exactly what every BS hopes and deserves to hear from their FWS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BdPflCzqYM

Allgood- all of my hopes and prayers are with you tonight.
((((((((Allgood)))))))))

ETA - Allgood - I guess I just wanted to add that if you're not ready to give your H an ultimatum or to play hardball then maybe it's best to just let him speak. You need to do this in your own time. There are risks with ultimatums and even if those of us who took a risk by filing papers or getting our WS's to move out ended up getting the desired response, I'm betting there are just as many who didn't.
You have 4 beautiful little children and we all know they are at the forefront of whatever decision you make, as they should be.
Miracle and Honest are both in less than ideal situations but they are making it work for themselves until they are in a better place to walk away. No one can help you decide what it is you are ready to do. Only you can say what is in your best interest at this time.
((((((((((Allgood)))))))))))

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 2:40 PM, January 13th (Thursday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{{Allgood}}}}

You are in my thoughts and prayers. Everything will turn out for the best, even though it's hard to feel it right now.

Today is my wedding anniversary, and I know Wh will NOT remember it.

Right now, I'm missing him, although I shouldn't. I did well with disengaging and trying to detach, but got pulled in again right before he left. Everytime he comes and goes, I have to go through an abandonment and loss and the cycle is killing me.

Well, gotta go and drive DS15 to his swim meet and then to "parent/teacher conferences. Car is dug out from snow.
The cat we had for over 12 years is missing and DS15 is heartbroken. Mom is supposed to be out of rehab and I'm considering long term care which I know she doesn't want. She wants to move in with me and have me take care of her. She thinks she can get an aide to come in to help me.....

ok, enough pity party for me.

Laura, hang in there, you are in our prayers.

M3, let us know how it's going with Baby Paddy. Her "aunts and uncles" here on LTA want to know

{{{tribe}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 3:56 PM, January 13th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest

Today is my wedding anniversary, and I know Wh will NOT remember it.

I am so sorry honey. I know how much this hurts. I would say my H forgot about half of our 28 wedding annis and each time I was so upset. I told him but he still forgot. Now, after the As, this would be devastating for me. It would be almost a deal breaker because it would show how little our M and R meant to him. Honest, he is TELLING you. My H was telling me and I didn't listen. You need to listen honey for your own sanity.

Everytime he comes and goes, I have to go through an abandonment and loss and the cycle is killing me.

You've said it yourself. Nothing is going to change. Each time he leaves is like another dday. You know you can't go on.

((((((((((((HONEST))))))))))))

AGNG

he needs to show up and speak from his heart

Miracle has hit the nail on the head here.

FNF

Thanks for your response to my question about forgiveness. I think if I focus on forgiveness as a process (as you describe it) rather than an end point (which is how I have been thinking) than I will find it easier. Thanks - you really did help with your answer. However I do disagree with you on one thing

because I refuse to forget

I think you are being too hard on yourself here. I don't think any of us CAN EVER forget. It would be like telling someone to forget the death of a loved one. It is humanly impossible. But maybe we can choose to not dwell on it, or make a conscious effort not to keep analysing. I don't know. Easier said than done!!

Flood Update

Water is receding in most places. Some smaller centres are still suffering. Goondiwindi (a town of about 5,000) is in much danger today as are a number of smaller places.

My SIL's house was spared. Water stopped rising less than an inch below the floorboards!!!

In Brisbane the premier called on young people to volunteer to help by registering for clean up teams. Within a few hours 11,000 had signed up!!!!! This is truly extraordinary and a testament to the genuine "goodness" of humanity!

'We now face a reconstruction task of postwar proportions,' she said yesterday. 'Everyone can contribute in some way and I ask residents not affected by the flooding to think about grabbing a shovel, putting on their safety gear and lending a hand to Brisbane's flooding victims. I also urge anyone who owns a bobcat, dump truck, front-end loader, water tanker or other heavy equipment or plant to give us a hand with the clean-up.

Anyway. It's sunny today and I need to get some laundry done.

HUGS to all

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

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