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Newest Member: DevastatedWH (43169)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 22
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 5:24 PM, January 16th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood,

Recently you said:

~ Holy crap! I totally forgot to ask if he wants to stay married or not. Unbelievable. I totally forgot.

Trauma and lack of sleep affects the way we think.


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2113 | Registered: Jun 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 5:31 PM, January 16th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood: I actually said that to my WH that he wasn't man enough to end it. Now that's all he seems to remember me saying! He keeps saying to me that is not the case and he wouldn't put up with all my anger and being treated badly if he didn't love me and still want the marriage!!!

With your WH, I don't think it's the case. He has gone so far, and could easily end it... I don't think he wants to, but I agree, he doesn't realize how serious you are this time. I think he feels you are just angry like you were before and it will pass.
I think when he sees you are calmer and are talking more calmly about S, he may realize that you really really mean it.

I wish I could shake him awake!!

Miracle, vent here. You are holding too much in!!!

Thank you to all my angels giving me support about what the right thing to do with Mom. I can't thank you all enough. Again you all have saved my life and helped me to feel that I'm "normal" in my feelings and wants and needs.

{{{{tribe}}}}


Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jan 2010
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, January 16th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood..
Am i right?
Yes, I think you are right.

Ending is hard for anyone married.

Allgood.. what is it you need to be happy? What do you think you need to be happy?

Can your H make you happy being who he is today? Without change... same man... Has he shown you he can be faithful, committed.. make you safe. Does he meet your emotional needs... affection, conversation, sex, recreational Companionship, physical attraction...

Always move forward... Communicate to him. Can you do it? Is the MC doing it for you? How many months are you going to continue to go? Is that MC teaching you how?

Just some questions for you...


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 7:26 PM, January 16th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{LTA tribe}}}

I'm spending the week with my BFF whose m-i-l died recently. We are HS friends who now live 4 hours drive apart. FWH had an all-day meeting an hour further east yesterday so we spent Fri/Sat night here and he went home this morning. He's starting OT hours (not sure when OW will be needed - he has not said & I have not asked). I was torn about being home or staying here for some much needed friend therapy but decided to 'take care of me' so I'll go home via the Greyhound on Thursday. Hopefully OW's services (of any kind) aren't needed while I'm here.

I'll be reading but not sure about posting but know that you are all in my thoughts & prayers whether I can get here or not.

{{{more4all}}}

LS


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 12:05 AM, January 17th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ladies first: welcome to the lta corner of si....i do not know your story, but whenever you are ready we are here to listen...


lostsoul:

He's starting OT hours (not sure when OW will be needed - he has not said & I have not asked

???????????i am confused...why would ow would be needed?

((((lostsoul))))

honest:

wouldn't put up with all my anger and being treated badly if he didn't love me and still want the marriage!!!

the empitomy of selfish....because lets see, he really doesn t deserve any anger because he just the cats meow.....NOT


i'm likin the circle idea....maybe we could put them all in the middle and then do that dance they do at weddings only when you get to the middle of the circle everyone kicks....first one that lands some stupid monkey nuts gets a prize....dip we need to borrow those brass ones to use as a trophy of sorts....

honest: concerning your mom, of course you are 'normal'.....or i should say what you feel is normal...actually i would think at this point normal would include some more anger then what you have....


allgood: i disagree...i dont think he believes you won't go through with it...i think he is just waiting, biding his time...not ready to let go until you pull the final trigger because he in incapable added to the fact that he doesnt' want your marriage to end...so he continues doing what he's been doing...minus the mc, because you let it go....

but of course we could all be wrong, the only one who really has the answers his him, and he's not talkin...


honest: i believe you must have some kind of premonition today...

Miracle, vent here. You are holding too much in!!!

i was actually fine when i read this earlier today...i know i don't let alot of what i feel go, mostly because he does read here...but i do get it out...not the way i would ideally like, but the way i ideally like is against the law..... ....but then tonite, well lets just say i held myself back out of need....a house full of teens....13 of them...not to mention my mom...and if i let it go to him, it would still have been a waste of breath....

he does take stupid to new levels...everytime i think well we have gotten to another new level can't be many left to explore.....the boy just cant help doing stupid really well...

last week when we were at family counseling with manchild, pfm and i were told specifically to let go of all things academic with him...let it go and let the boy do what he needed to do....so we agreed and made the next appt for 2 weeks later(next week)....well tonite he broke as manchild says that rule...for the second time or third....definitely second that i know of, i think manchild said it was his third...he just cannot help himself....so when i asked pfm why?...his response "manchild threw my past at me, so i threw his at him"....like a fucking 10 year old...he did it first shit.....and no matter how many different ways i told pfm that this was wrong...he kept coming back to but you didn't hear manchild, what he said to me prior....i told him that whatever manchild said did not matter...pfm is the role model, if at 51 years old you still cannot follow the rules, how do you expect him to, if at 51 years old you are still doing tit for tat, how do you expect him not to.....pfm is the example...and he is still making the same mistakes....and of course he then pulled the "everyone always thinks i am wrong", " i don't know why"....WELL DUH, MAYBE BECAUSE YOU ARE FUCKING WRONG.....GET A FUCKING CLUE ALREADY.....AAARRRGGGHHH.....manchild was furious....and the more i talked to pfm trying to make him see the error of his approach, the more pfm dug his heels in insisting with "but, you didn't hear what he said to me".......it does not fucking matter what he said, you agreed not to throw his academics in his face and every chance you get YOU THROW IT IN HIS FACE.....HELLO.....FOLLOW THE RULES....YOU CANNOT CHANGE WHAT YOU DO NOT ACKNOWLDGE....YOU HAVE FUCKING ISSUES....YOU DON'T GET IT YET, HOW DO YOU EXPECT HIM TOO!!!!!!YOU LEAD BY EXAMPLE ASSHOLE.....

ok, done for now....kids are finally leaving, its 1 am.....

nite all....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 1:31 AM, January 17th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IWaM: OW is seasonal help at FWH's workplace and if they receive product that she grades this is when she works evenings while he is there working in another area. He says NC as he is busy with his own articles and has his office admin overseeing OW's work (piece work). Sorry to confuse you... OW is 'co-worker' who he had online EA while we were in another city and continued when we moved back as well as he spent New Year's eve with her on 2 occasions during the A. First one I was visiting my sis out of town (ticket was a gift from him!). 2nd time he went out of town with her and some of her family & friends while letting me think he was ice fishing with some business people. As we met on a NY's eve, it has been our special time for 30 yrs until his A. Now NY's is a major trigger for me. He has tried to make up for it but it's still a tainted event which I can still neither forgive or forget!

I should be sleeping but I'm alone with my laptop. As I dread dreaming I haven't closed my eyes yet but need to now so I can at least try to have a good visit.

Nite all...



Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 1:44 AM, January 17th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

miracle

LOVELY vent. We need to hear more of this. I know that you know where you are up to but that doesn't mean you don't need to vent at times. Great to hear (I could almost hear you ....really ) let it all out.

Our WSs I think just lack so much maturity. I remember hearing when I was a teenager that girls mature faster than boys. And I saw evidence of this all the time. Unfortunately I think some of them get stuck (notice DP, Tryn, Dip, Ats and our other gentlemen correspondents - I said SOME!) get stuck. Maybe ours are the ones who got stuck and like any teenager it is no use telling them - they just don't get it!!!

AGNG

About 3 months after dday I was really trying to work out what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. I was focusing on me. In one sense I was fortunate because my kids have left home, but I think my story still has relevance for you. I am a French teacher and have always dreamed of living in France for a few months or a year and teaching Engish. I decided that if things didn't work out with my H that I would move to France for a year. I would start a whole new life and if it suited me I would not return to OZ (except to visit my kids of course). I thought about this often - it was a great way to take my mind off the hurt.

One night after a few too many Merlots I told my H this was my plan. The colour drained from his face. I think this was perhaps the first time it really hit home. He realised that I was actually planning for a future without him. I made it quite clear that this was IF we couldn't R but that I had given it a lot of thought. (So he knew I was serious). At present I don't intend to follow through with this (but I will if things don't continue to improve) and neither of us have mentioned it since. But I have a suspicion that it may still be in the back of his mind. Don't get me wrong - I am not using it as some sort of threat - but I think it made him realise that although I do love him and want our marriage to work, I have plans for if it doesn't and those plans would not leave me sitting crying alone at home.

I think that making plans to cohabit is letting your H off the hook. He probably believes that if he kisses you goodbye and says he loves you, you will "get over it". Maybe you need to talk more about how things will be if you separate. Not in a threatening or blackmailing kind of way. Just in a very matter of fact way. As in "If we can't work this out I plan to...., I will..., I think I should....".

In the early weeks I spent a lot of time trying to get my H to understand how hurt I was, how terrible I felt. I actually told him (because I am honest!) that I hated the thought of living alone and growing old without a partner. I still think I was right to say these things but I also think it left him in a position of power. I NEEDED him - in his mind. When I started to talk about my new life in France (what I would do, where I'd live, what I'd do for work, how I'd keep in touch with the kids using skype). I think he started to think that I wasn't desperate to keep him. I think he also suddenly had to consider his own sich. I think maybe he then saw himself sitting alone and lonely. And he had to really face what he'd done.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Honest

I really hope you have definately decided not to have your mum come live with you.

Strong

It is so wonderful that you can help your BFF. Please give her hugs from me. How is your son going?

Fun

I think the tears are a good sign. My H has shed tears a few times since dday. He has been apologetic and embarassed about doing it which suggests to me that he is not just turning it on!!! From what I know I think your H is similar to mine in some ways. Thinking of you honey.


NELL

I had hurt his feelings after he revealed his A by saying things like he was selfish. uh... WOW. Wow. Woooooooowwwwww

Dear Lord - where are his brains!!!! I'm so sorry honey. But sometimes I just think our WSs are DUMB. They are DUMB!!!!! They didn't think we'd ever catch them, didn't realise how much we'd be hurt didn't realise ANYTHING. As miracle says they are just STUPID!!!!!!!!

NJgal

Thanks for your great thoughts. Often what you say to others is relevant to my sich.

BROKEN

I agree with NJgal. He may have gotten rid of them because he was afraid you'd find them and didn't want to upset you. I know my H had some letters from OW1 (16yrs ago). He gave them back to her three years ago. (Heard him on VAR). I asked him after dday if he'd ever written to any of his OWs. He admitted writing to OW1 and said he had destroyed the letters she wrote to him. I know he didn't - he gave them back to her - but believe he lied so as not to hurt me. Still a lie but I can live with it. In a way he has deceived you by getting rid of the pics but he may also be trying not to let you be hurt more.

Things are Ok with us at present. I have my rollercoaster but I also have my butterflies and he is trying really hard. I have had no meltdowns or rages for a while so I'm OK I think. He has gone out this afternoon to help SIL on the farm and for the first time I am not second guessing where he is.

You've probably all seen this but in case you haven't

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/virtual-rape-man-used-facebook-to-hack-womens-emails-send-naked-photos-of-them-to-entire-address-book-20110117-19st4.html

I have never sent naked pics of myself to my H and don't intend to. I wonder who these "ladies" had been sending naked pics to????

It is 6.30pm and very hot here (90+) and I know some of you are freezing. Our air con is not working and they have said quite a wait for parts (because of the floods) - so I have been spending lots of the day in the pool

Floods are now looking serious in Victoria (southern state of Australia) so keep those prayers coming please.

If I don't click submit soon I'll lose this!

Love to all

laura

[This message edited by Laura28 at 3:46 AM, January 17th (Monday)]


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 1:53 AM, January 17th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostsuol

We cross posted. Hope you are sleeping peacefully

Hopefully OW's services (of any kind) aren't needed while I'm here.

My H still works with OW2 and OW3. I know how hard this is for you. Hope you are ok.

laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, January 17th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morning all.

Laura & Lostsuol: a question - why are you ok with your Hs still working with OWs? (which is asked n a non-judgmental, just inquisitive kind of way.)

I'm just curious.

To answer a few points raised bout my sitch:

Tryn:

Can your H make you happy being who he is today? Without change... same man... Has he shown you he can be faithful, committed.. make you safe. Does he meet your emotional needs... affection, conversation, sex, recreational Companionship, physical attraction...

Other than the last 4, the answer is no. Maybe he can be faithful and committed, but I don't feel confidence in that.

We are not in mc because I do not see the point in being in mc if we are not staying together. Once I found the photo, I canceled the session. I did tell H that is something that we should do if we are to work this out and that I was still willing to go, even if just to discuss whether the M can be saved or not.

Laura

I think that making plans to cohabit is letting your H off the hook

Yes, I acknowledge this. What I am not prepared to do, however, is throw him out unless he has a place to go. Admittedly, I could give him notice and a deadline; however, the larger issue is that I am more than aware of the financial repurcussions of this decision and while I have a career, I've also not worked a full week in over 10 years to be with my kids, I would have to return to work full time, which might even mean changing places of employment. (Where I am now is very flexible with me as far as my kids' activities and close enough so that I can make all of these events that they schedule for 10am in the middle of the week on 5 days notice. Grr.. don't even get me started on why the school is not more sensitive to stuff like that.)
I know these are things I can do, it would just be an inconvenience. The bigger issue of course, is that I am not willing to tell my kids this until I must. Now, I realize some of you will say I'm at that point now, but I am not doing this to my 8th grader, who struggles academically, in the middle of the school year. The most I am prepared to do is tell my H that he is to make advance plans to be out by the beginning of July. Then, we tell the kids and he's out. No confusing delay in between.

What am I going to do, however, is put together an agreement this week. I've already been thinking about the terms, I just need to get is all down on paper now. It will be ready tomorrow and I will wait til Thurs, when it's been a week that we had our big talk and then I will confront him. I will be losing some money by doing this now instead of waiting (as far as my entitlement to his retirement bens at work), but I will also be gaining important protections, like the ability to require him to refinance our mortgage and vacate the home on my request.

H was away this weekend (with our boys) and was away last weekend (with coworkers). I didn't miss him at all this weekend, but did miss him the weekend before, now part of this could be just a time thing - the 1st weekend was closer to the discovery of the photo and my decision to end this, but I think it has more to do with that I know he's "safe" now - he's with our kids. I guess I see that I'm not necessarily missing his company (for such a short period, anyway), but I do take issue with his moving on.
In terms of moving on, I really am so limited in my sitch. I was thinking this last night, how he is going to start working midnights, and I'm going to have to get a babysitter every damn time I want to go anywhere, whereas he will always have me to watch the kids. I guess this is something that will get easier as little Miss Diva gets older.

Anyhoo. Gotta go refill that coffee mug now.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, January 17th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood...
Ok so iwantamiracle says...
allgood: i disagree...i dont think he believes you won't go through with it...i think he is just waiting, biding his time...not ready to let go until you pull the final trigger because he in incapable added to the fact that he doesnt' want your marriage to end...so he continues doing what he's been doing...minus the mc, because you let it go....

If this is the case... I would say he does not know what to do. He does not know how to behave in such a way to make you feel safe... loved... all those things...

How is he going to learn to treat you in a way so that you can re-connect? You seem so afraid to push him... Yes, he's seen you hurt and he may even "want" to somehow fix things... But he does not know how.

So if you want happiness.. You are going to have to learn togather. Think the MC can teach you both? Will he read books.. you too?

I see only on alturnative for you to somehow re-connect.... But fear overtakes your soul....


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:40 AM, January 17th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood...
The most I am prepared to do is tell my H that he is to make advance plans to be out by the beginning of July.
Maybe you just are not ready to give up. They say, when you know, you know.

allgood.. Please don't have fear to tell your H you want to reconnect... GO!

It's easy to ask...Mr Allgood, "I'm ready to end our marriage.. But I've heard there is somewhere we can attend that may help me get back to a point we can both change and re-connect.. Will you go with me to the weekend then let's see how things go from there..."

http://www.retrouvaille.org/

You say you stick around for your kids.. You owe this to your kids too then.. but mostly, if he can make it throught this weekend in a lie, then you don't want to be with someone like this..

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:53 AM, January 17th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, January 17th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How is he going to learn to treat you in a way so that you can re-connect? You seem so afraid to push him...

This would be a fair point if we were not 16 months into this process. I've been pushing him. I feel very confident in saying that this is not a situation where the information/opportunities have not been presented to him. He is not open to it. And, by "it" I mean the hard work, changing his priorities and opening up to me. In hindsight, I would say that our relationship was never emotionally intimate. Now, I have changed. I want more and I can give more, but he remains relatively stuck in one place.

I feel I can move forwarda with no regrets. I mean, I'm sure I will miss him, etc., but I've learned a lot about my H over the past 16mos & not just A-related stuff. I will not be happy if we continue on this course and he doesn't seem to be taking my offer to stay married very seriously. Even the most pigheaded, macho dumbass could come up to me and say, I want to be in this marriage 100%, I just don't really know what you want me to do. (Now, he did say this at the end of our conversation last week, but has not renewed the conversation since and I did make it clear to him just a few days ago via text that I still love him, but the distance I am putting between us is necessary for me to stay sane while he makes his decision. So, he knows I'm waiting on his response.)

I think he is just disabled. He wants to stay married, but he doesn't want to do the work. So he does nothing. No thought of repurcusions or how he's making it worse/more difficult by his inaction. When I think of it the way I think of my kids, I can see it. I've been willing to guide him thru this process or get him to professionals who will do the same, but I am not going to do it while he grumbles the entire way.

Anyway, thanks for your input Tryn. How are you by the way?


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, January 17th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn - I want you to know that I went to the Retro site. What I don't understand, and maybe you can elaborate from your personal experience, how someone can go from my H's state of emotional constipation to an effective communicator or any semblance thereof over a weekend. (And, please forgive the rudeness of the tone - Diva is calling and I don't have the time to phrase it more delicately - not trying to be insulting tho. )


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, January 17th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood-
I can certainly understand that you would be very skeptical that a one shot...one weekend experience could really help your husband make significant changes in the way he has been communicating all his life.
But, what I think can happen...in one weekend or like in my husband's case-one session of IC is that a person can FINALLY have that 'Aha....' moment.
Things can crystalize and suddenly all make sense and/or really impact them in a way that they have never thought before.
Of course, it doesn't happen for everyone....but,why not take a shot?
what have you got to lose at this point?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, January 17th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost: I'm so sorry you couldn't sleep. It's very good of you to stay with your friend. About New Years, why don't they think about things like that? It's like they go to an alternate universe or something and don't worry about anyone else but themselves.

Laura: It's funny to hear that you have 90 degree weather when I'm still digging out a path in the snow to get to the backyard!! At least you have the pool to go into!

Miracle, Hooray that you vented!! You are right, pfm is acting like one of the kids and expecting you to be Mommy to him too. I know he "should" know how to act as an adult parent, but he doesn't. A simple fact. You "shouldn't" have to be teaching him how to act as a parent, but if you are going to stay in the status quo for a while, perhaps that is what you are going to have to do for the kids' sake. You expect him to know, but he doesn't. Telling you, "But you don't know what he said to me...." to rationize his behavior is childish. He can't seem to help it. You can't change it either. I'm so sorry you are dealing with this.
I am so glad that you are venting. Please keep it up!!

Allgood, it seems that your WH is being like an ostrich and sticking his head in the sand and hoping it will all go away. It's almost like he is a child who did something wrong, thinks he had his punishment (you being angry and now hopes that Mommy will still love him and we can go on as before.

I think it's a good idea to put together the agreement. You don't have to give it to him immediately. I do agree with Tryn, that going to Retro, for one last try might be worth it. At least for you, it might help you learn more communication skills that could help you in future relationships, talking to your kids as they near the pre-teen years, and even on your job. Not that you need the communication skills!! I just meant learning even more

Don't be afraid to do this, Allgood. I think it will be worth the effort and you'll know in your heart you did everything you possible could. If I had a chance, I definitely would do it, even to get more in touch with myself.

ETA, Allgood we were cross posting and I saw your question to Tryn. It is possible for someone to finally get an "Aha" moment, or an insight from one weekend or even a talk with someone. I know just from coming here that many of you have told me the same thing over and over again, but FINALLY something happens, or someone says it in a slightly different way and then "Light bulb" I get it.

My IC calls it "the dance". If one person makes a subtle shift in the moves, the other person does too and the "dance" changes. Action and reaction.

What is very good now, Allgood, is that you are at a place now that you feel you can make a CHOICE. You are not tied down to FEAR, but can make a choice, even if it's temporary, or for the path of least regret for now.

Tryn, I love your advice. You always put things in perspective and can help put a complicated issue in more understandable terms.

I think that problem with a lot of BWs is that we are not just thinking of the marital relationship, but EVERYTHING that is involved. As mothers (and a lot of fathers) we are used to self sacrifice for our kids and family. I know that I always felt I was more or less "content" and wasn't looking for that elusive "happiness". I felt this was my marriage and I was going to make the best of what I had and not looking at the grass on the other side of the fence.

Even now, maybe a lot of BS's are doing that. We are committed to our family/spouses and will continue to be so, even if we are feeling unhappy. We are used to this. It's hard to change and to put our feelings first.

But, I'm discovering, as I've said before, that I need a balance. I put others first, and then often was feeling unhappy or even resentful. Then, I would try to put myself first and then felt guilty or selfish.
Now, I'm trying to find that balance that I can take care of myself and others. I have to take care of me, but not in a selfish way. I have to go to the dentist for myself and not just make appointments for the kids, WH and my mother. KWIM?

This journey on "self discovery" is not like the old cliche' that someone is "finding oneself". I'm trying not to withdraw, but being more engaged with the kids and new friends that I'm making. Very tentative at first. Very. The self esteem is very very damaged.

Yay, to me. I bought Nicotine gum and am planning on working toward quitting the cancer sticks!!

One step at a time.

{{{{tribe}}}


Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jan 2010
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, January 17th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NJgal: We were cross posting, but GMTA (great minds think alike!)

Thank you always for sharing your experiences with us and for the kind and wonderful advice. You are such a caring and wonderful person!


Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jan 2010
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, January 17th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood.

If I remember correctly didn't you H ask who you would date. I'm betting this is a bigger concern to him than just a idle question. Has he asked about this again? I don't know if you could or should try and use his worry about you ending up with another man to your advantage, but it could help push him in the right direction. If he is too dense to figure out what he is losing, maybe the idea that he will eventually be replaced would be distasteful to him. There has to be something that will wake him up!!!

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, January 17th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest,
r.e. quitting the cancer sticks. YAY for you!!! If your state or insurance company offers it, use a toll-free quit-smoking telephone service. It ups your chance of staying smoke free a crazy-high percent. (I want to say 40 percent, but I'm not sure the exact number.)


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, January 17th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's good to hear from so many of you and even better to hear that no one appears to be in crisis!

As for Retro - it says it's not marriage counseling, so I'm assuming (based on what I saw on the site) that it is really about communicating.

I feel like I've made huge strides in communicating with my H, which have not been returned. (No shift). My reluctance in going to Retro is that I will be miserable the entire weekend. Ok, so that seems a bit petty - but that's what it is. That I will have to go thru Herculean efforts to attend (which is not an exaggeration) and what I expect is that I will put in the mental/emotional effort and lay my bleeding heart out there or whatever and he will say shit, like always.
While I may have nothing to lose, I also really, really don't think I have anything to gain. If my H is not open enough to discuss anything with me or IC, this is first and foremost an issue of will, not skill. And, this is not the kind of thing I would do just so that I could be a better communicator in a different relationship. I've definitely come a long way, and while I'm sure there's room for improvement, it's not something I have any personal interest in doing to just improve my personal communication skills.

I will give it some more thought though.

ETA: Honest - good for you quitting cigarettes (or on your way to doing so...)! And, your attitude is very, very good. I'm happy for you.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 9:51 AM, January 17th (Monday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, January 17th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From what I understand about REtrouvaille it was started as a last ditch attempt save marriages from divorce.
Even for those that had already divorced!
So, from what I gather its all about changing your way of looking at your marriage not just communicating.
Just like AA or other 12 Step programs...AA is not just about stopping drinking it's about changing the way the alcoholic looks at himself and the whole world.

I think the first thing they discuss in AA is selfishness and how everything about the alcoholic's life is about themselves and their own selfish needs....

so..these programs often have bigger, life altering implications than those of us on the outside looking in realize.

again..it's a weekend...
you have been feeling misrable for months now...
what's one more weekend?
you get a babysitter for the kids.
You get to stay in a hotel.
You don't have to cook or clean for the weekend- just attend some sessions, listen to some speakers, and maybe put some of the tools to use with your husband.
Worst case scenario....you come home on Sunday night and you are in the same position you are in now...a sort of limbo.
Or...you may decide to definitely kick his butt to the curb.....

or...you could see the beginnings of an invigorated , changed marriage and then you and your husband decide to go to the follow up sessions for Retrouvaille and your marriage is changed for the better!


oh...and about not wanting to kick him out of the house because he does not have a place to go! well...that is classic co-dependent behavior! we are such care givers! even when we are thinking of kicking the guy out we are worrying about them.....
Actually, the fact that I kicked my husband out with no place to go was shocking for him.... part of the whole 'wake up' call.
Trust me...your husband will figure it out...
Mine went to a cheap motel...then to a better hotel chain-long term stay...and then he found this month to month lease place (because he refused to admit the marriage was over and he had to sign a long term lease).
Ironically, the whole building was filled with guys that were just kicked out of their marital home!
They were all in the same boat!
so...in my long winded way...I'm saying that in many ways it is much better if he does not have a 'soft place to land' when you kick him out!
let him feel the full impact of his actions....


Honest - Yay! for you! Stopping smoking is a huge change! Think of it as the ultimate gift to yourself and your kids!
and yes... there are a lot of free programs out there to support you in giving up smoking!
I will try to find the site and send it to you.

(my sister actually worked for this org. at one time)


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


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