I love how you worded it "porn with skin".
It's not mine. It's another user's line, but I can't remember who to attribute it to.
You are not an image or a prop to your WH. However, you probably are a mother figure. You're actually completely critical to him emotionally.
I'm jumping high but those gators are really after me.
Have read all and thinking of you.
He's a fucktard! How dare he!!!
Njgal & Dip
A GPS would be a better bet, but it just doesnít sit well with me.
Never thought in a million years I would spy on my H. Like honest I am honest to a fault but after LTAs all bets are off. The tech toys give me security although I'm not using them much at present. Will not hesitate if my antennas start to twitch.
Thanks and HUGS!!!
Where are you? Are you OK?
Butterflies: 8 born this morning
Lies: My H just lies all the time. I know I don't have the truth and don't believe I ever will (from him anyway). I wonder is R possible if you know they are doing everything right at present including telling the truth but they are still lying about the LTAs????
STD Tests: Thanks for the reminder everyone. My doc recommended a repeat after 6 months. I'm a month overdue.
Big hugs to everyone else.
Love you all
Oh FNF, what is it with them? Did he forget? Or did he pretend to forget? Either way, joking was not the right response. He really should have approached you before the day to find out if there was any way you wanted to acknowledge or celebrate it and then offered you the complete package that sat easy with you. I think I would have had the same response as you and cut him out of the evening. Sheesh. Iím sorry FNF. Well, at least itís done now. Although I think he should do something to make it up to you.
but, IMHO after a LTA-all bets are off!
I want the relaxed trust we had before, I guess. And thatís not going to happen.
I would tell your husband-no porn....and I would tell him that due to his brother's toxic influence in the past (he encouraged your husband's LTA!) he needs to distance himself from him.
I know you can't say that he has to break ties with his twin but....you could say that you want to be included in their visits...that you don't want your husband hanging out in bars with the evil twin!
Genius, some brilliant advice from m33. Stay on track and donít waiver. You can do this!!
NO THEY WOULDN'T HAVE CONFESSED IF YOU ASKED.
So weíre all agreed that asking doesnít makea haípenny difference to confessing. They lie until the day of reckoning. And then some.
you know they are doing everything right at present including telling the truth but they are still lying about the LTAs????
FNF: That sucks!!!!! Beyond sucking, that is the kind of thing that would seriously piss me off. Like everyone was saying how we are hypersensitive in a way to these kind of infractions now (tho I have to say I would've been seriously pissed preDDay if he forgot too.) To me, I obviously dropped out of his daily thinking during his A, so any reminder that I'm not constantly or regularly on his mind would make me worry. But, that's me. I'm not saying you should worry, I'm just saying I understand the depth of your disappointment/anger.
And my H uses humor to smooth things over CONSTANTLY.
m3: what a late night for you! What is going on? Hmmmm....?
Miracle: I like the laxatives suggestions, but we all know who's going to really pay the price - FNF is gonna have to clean all of that crap up herself. (That's gross.)
Fun - yes, where are you? And, did you guys book Retro? I'm so curious to say how you make out there.
Speaking of laxatives...I've been feeding H lots of bacon, fried foods, donuts and the like. His cholestrol was high to begin with and he wouldn't take the pills. Doc tested it again and it was higher, so high that it scared the shit out of him and now he's taking the pills. I guess that form of murder isn't going to work!!!
allgood - I think the next retro in my area is April. I have been talking to H about it and he doesn't want to go. If I insist I think he will and since April is my 35th anniversary, I think it would be fitting. I'm scared though because I think my H will probably walk out of Retro if it gets too intense emotionally.
I do believe he does need to say OK to goingÖ not forced. If he is not forced to go, I believe he will not walk out.
My wife also didnít want to go. She honestly believed she didnít need some weekend work retreat to fix our marriage issues. She has a degree in Psychology and fully understood what is needed to fix us. That was hog wash... She was absolutely wrong. Just like your husband is thinking I suppose.
Maybe you can convince him to go this wayÖ maybe we can help you with some words for Mr. Nofun
Mr. Nofun, I want you to say yes to going to Retrou. I want you to want to go for me. I want to somehow learn how to reconnect to you and give you what you need to be happy in life. They say 80% of the married people leave the weekend beginning to reconnect with each other. I want this weekend to be the time we can look back and know we reconnected. I want to reconnect so we make love much more often, laugh, have fun together again. I want to get back to a point again when I can felt good about us. You are my best friend and I think this can give me the attraction we both need to move into a mature love. One where we both become satisfied with each other in every way! I want us to be both satisfied in our time we spend with each other, satisfied in our physical love for each otherÖ I donít think I can achieve this by us just living life as we know it right now. Without help. I commit that if you go and try, my attitude will total change about us. Will you do this for me? Will you try this for us?
Nofun, it is totally a weekend that you donít have to share a thing. Nobody in that room will ever know what you both discuss. Make sure he knows that. Nobody will know what happened between you both. It has some prayer and discussion about God, but it so little that an atheist can handle it.
I admit knowing every Retrou weekend about 3 of 25-30 couples to up and leave. My W and I didnít attend all the follow-ups because of things going on. You can do the same. The weekend is good. It is very interesting. He will find it very interesting.
For some reason, to listen to other peoples stories are most fascinating.
[This message edited by trynhard at 9:23 AM, January 26th (Wednesday)]
I'm just pulling up a chair and listening quietly to friends.
Thank you all for your responses to my earlier post. I know we have all gone through similar situations. It all makes sense, and I know it is true - until I look at him and wonder about why he was just such a stupid ass.
What an ass!!!
You know, it has nothing to do with LTA, I know a LOT of women who would have a shit fit if their H forgot their Anniversary.
You know what? The ones who have a shit fit and are "b****" don't put up with the crap we did!!
The problem is not that I don't know what needs to happen. The problem is that WH doesn't get it. I'm not his Mommy, nor am I his therapist, and I'm not interested in being his probation officer, either. So, yes, I would like him to have healthy boundaries. But I don't think he has a good understanding of "healthy boundaries." I would like him to NOT make crap choices. But he will, and furthermore he will hide that stuff from me so that he won't have to deal with the consequences (angry or crying wife). Or, in other words, what UKgirl said.
The good news is that I have changed after Mr. Nell's LTA, and for the better. (Well, except for the anger and weight loss.) I am no longer okay with this relationship, and I am the proud owner of feeling not okay about it. And I will be better than okay if we dissolve this relationship.
Three things set me off yesterday. (1) The porn, which I need to talk about without saying "I know what you did yesterday" or I'll give up one of my only valid verification tools. (2) The recent announcement that the evil twin is going to visit. (3) Stumbling across some journal entries (okay, fine, Miracle... they were lists. ) that I wrote in October, a month after DDay#2, that I was using to try and clearly see what Mr. Nell was and was not doing so that I knew I was giving him a fair shake and not painting everything with the YOU SUCK brush(KWIM?). And it clearly shows what I already knew: he's not growing at all; he's just standing still and waiting me out. In fact, in some ways his actions are worse now because I'm not pitching a fit about stuff any longer so the short-lived reactionary stuff (like offering transparency and not going silent while physically away from me) has gone away. So now, REALLY?!, I have to freaking bring this crap up again? [EXPLETIVE!] And, further, realizing as I'm looking at the list that I'm a month away from the six-month mark post-DDay#2 and I not only don't know what to do, I don't even know how I feel outside of "not okay."
So I went to hot yoga last night (the temperature was above 100degrees and it was at about 15percent humidity... it was SO GOOD!) and felt much better. Even felt peaceful when Mr. Nell wanted to sit with me and interrupted my nightly zone-out-in-front-of-the-TV ritual. And I still feel better today, the emotions aren't high... but... gah.
But enough about me.
fnf, I'm glad you got your sense of humor back. I've gotta tell you, the "make it up to you" stuff doesn't really work for me. Mr. Nell forgot my 30th birthday. After I reminded him over and over and over and finally got a "yes, I know, please stop reminding me" two weeks before the big day. We were in a place where he could have knocked my socks off, but instead it was crickets. Nada. He "made it up to me" several months later but it was expensive, complicated, drawn out and meaningless. It was a lot of time and money (out of our joint account) and it meant zip. And I told him before he planned it that it would mean zip, and so to please just not do anything. Either he thought I was lying or he was soothing his own guilt. Either way, it became just one more thing I had to do for him (woohoo this is so great and you're an awesome husband). Now I wouldn't worry about him and just tell him to stick it, but at the time I thought he was doing it for me so I went along.
Laura, yay for the butterflies! Hugs back. And the lies... all the time with the lies and the hiding... it's his problem. It's his problem. He is (they are) too weak and fearful to be authentic. How sad for them, and for us.
nofun, hee hee hee on the cholesterol. There was a fatal avalanche here the other day on some back-country skiing area and I thought... hm... I wonder if Mr. Nell might want to go back-country skiing this year...
Agree with you on listening to other people's stories. One of the reasons I love it here.
m3: what a late night for you! What is going on? Hmmmm....?
Taxes. :) I want "the man" to give me my money back! Wh walked in from work with his W-2 in hand last night, so tax time!
Probably the only good, proactive habit I have, LOL.
He has been pretty good right, so maybe it genuinely slipped his mind?
I know how this must have panged so deeply sorry.
On t positive side...here's looking at at least a months worth of buttering up...and you know there's nothing like make-up sex!
Hi Ukg (waving back).
I was in ure area a few weeks ago n stuck a virtual finger at ow in ure sitch.
Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.
UKG - how are those classes going? Is this a new career start for you or something you just wanted to learn a little more about? I think this is a wonderful idea.
Maybe I'll start looking into something for myself too.
Laura - I love those pictures so please keep them coming. I'd really love to see some in the different colors too. Are you seeing mostly the Monarchs or are you getting more of a variety?
Now as to the porn, what is it that so many guys (not our guys here mind you) are addicted to porn? I just don't get the thrill. Maybe I'm a prude but to me it's so degrading. I know some couples really do enjoy that and I know my H would love me to watch it with him on occasion but when I have I either ended up laughing hysterically at the ridiculous story line or getting so turned off that he wouldn't get lucky afterward.
Maybe the OW was more obliging.
Nell & Tryn - I agree. Hearing other people's stories makes us feel we're not alone. I think especially in our situation where we have been so betrayed, knowing there are others out there who listen, empathize and understand is what gets us through this. There is no one IRL that I know personally whose S had a LTA. They could never understand even though they try. I remember once asking my IC/MC how many other couples in his practice he was treating for LTA's and he admitted, we were the only one. I wasn't surprised. Yep, we are a unique group and I don't know what I'd do without you.
Hugs to the tribe!
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 1:11 PM, January 26th (Wednesday)]
There is no one IRL that I know personally whose S had a LTA.
I have a very good friend who D'ed two years ago because she discovered her husband had been in a 10 year LTA.
She doesn't know about WH and I though.
But I don't think he has a good understanding of "healthy boundaries." I would like him to NOT make crap choices. But he will, and furthermore he will hide that stuff from me so that he won't have to deal with the consequences (angry or crying wife).
O- this is Mr. Allgood. Absolutely.
When do you get to the point where you just assume he's going to make a crap choice?
My WH has been making some good choices lately, and I am (sadly) surpised.
I hadn't realized how low my standards had gotten.
Anyway, I have no idea if that makes any kind of a point at all.
She doesn't know about WH and I though.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 2:36 PM, January 26th (Wednesday)]
As for me, it's just more of a realization that as a general matter, he just doesn't think about things enough. He doesn't seem to think about repurcusions at all before acting or the implications of his actions.
Meanwhile, the best case scenario is that it could be a life changing experience for both of you.
So...why not try it?
You have to remember that you now hold the power.
You had every right to divorce him after d-day. If he wants to stay married then he has to go along with the 'new' rules....and if you need to go to Retrouvaille..then he needs to go....