what do you think?
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 11:34 AM, January 27th (Thursday)]
That WAS a post D-day anniversary. Unless you are able to see into the future and know I have another D-day comming up. If you can see into the future, please quit worring about a up comming D-day for me and lets concentrate on lotto numbers.
I don't remember what she did that anni. I just remember my screwup. I do wonder if any woman has ever forgotton a important date. I only hear stories about how stupid us guys are when it comes to remembering these things. I know you women are all so near perfect, but has a woman ever forgot a anniversary? Maybe one time in the whole history of the universe?
Another question I have is why can't you women remember to put the toilet seat back up after you have done your business? What is so hard about reaching down and lifting that seat back into its proper position? Why do us guys have to be responsible for things like this?
Thanks to you and miracle the grilled pancakes are pretty good. The grilled pizza sounds pretty good except I can't handle the peppers. I grilled a pizza a few day ago. Meat loaf on the grill tonite and ribs tomorrow nite. This is all getting habit forming.
I'm sure you have not been wrong to often. I think blameshifting/fingerpointing is in all of us. It is just a habit with some people. Mostly they are WSs.
njgal & FNF.
It all makes sense to me. I think some refer to this change of heart as "jail house religion."
Welcome to the oldies, newbies and the inbetweens. It is good to read everyone's stories and to see the great answers to everyone's questions. I have been trying to figure out what I am. I know I am not a old newbie. I guess I am old oldie or a old tweener?
Hugs to the tribe.
I agree with you about the jailhouse religion but for me it took a long.... time to understand my husband's instant change of heart.
I 'get it' now.
I guess I got bored being snowed in today, because I wound up texting him that I missed him and wanted to talk to him tonight. (Just watching him over the past few weeks, including this morning, I just kept thinking, you know he's a good guy in so many ways.) So, he said he missed me too, and yes, let's talk. Then later on he texted something referring to the last time we talked, we did a lot more than talk.
So, I texted back "Well, do you want to talk at all or are you just agreeing to talk in the hopes you get sex?" or something like that. And, he said just the sex. I don't know why I'm surprised. TOld him that wasn't the right answer and he said it was the honest answer. (Not sure if that was a jab or not.) Anyway, just kind of sucked all the interest I had in him away. At best, he is just way too casual about this relationship business for me.
I wouund up telling him that if he had nothing to say, neither did I.
I have told you and told you... if you keep touching the hot stove, you will continue to burn your fingers! (hee hee?)
Ya - I need to tape this to my cell phone or something.
I just can't get it through my head. I just can't believe that this guy - that was everything to me since I was 16 - we were inseparable-(ok - in fairness - he was not everything to me once the kids came along), but when I think about losing him I thinkg about us as a couple before kids. In any event, I just can't beliegve he is not willing to fight for this marriage.
I'm not distraught about it tho.
I just can't beliegve he is not willing to fight for this marriage.
I submit that he is probably putting more effort into your marriage now than he ever did. The question we have to answer to ourselvse is, "is bettter enough?" Pre-dday, I would have been estatic to have the relationship with FWW that I have now. Problem is (for her maybe), that the work I did to heal and "fix" me, gave me new appreciation for my value.
I have spent a lot of time the last few days wondering what it would be like to not be the most invested person in a relationship? I bet it is nice, and I am sure this is a sign I still have some co-dependency or other issues stuck somewhere. Tonight's exercise was to make two columns. Roomates, and Married Couple, with a list of actions and behaviors appropriate to each group. I think I have a great roommate.
I am working hard not to interpret at all what she does not do, and to only focus on what she does do, but it is, as I often stated, I fear too little too late.
njgal, I get your analogy of the shop lifting. I think FWW still misses the rush of the shop-lifting. She is not as happy, not as fit, nor as healthy as she was when she was shop-lifting. What does that say?
As for sex, I know that sex with the OM was different than sex with me. With him it was planned, scheduled, anticipated, prepared for, and she went out of her way (30 miles or so) most of the time to provide it. Honestly, if she tells me one more time how tired she is, yawns, and then says late at night I can have sex if I want to, that she does not care, I am going to walk out the door.
I think your husband does not truly believe that you are serious about ending the marriage.
I think he thinks that he can have his cake and eat it too....
I think he assumes that all of 'this' will eventually blow over and things will go back to normal.
Honestly, if she tells me one more time how tired she is, yawns, and then says late at night I can have sex if I want to, that she does not care, I am going to walk out the door
Ok, this is the second night in a row that I am relating more to the WW than the BS here on LTA.
While I can TOTALLY understand your reaction Ats, I can honestly say that I have said the same exact thing to my H (pre DDay) on many an occasion.
Why? Because I'm tired. Simple as that, really.
My suspicion is that with all this planning, etc., for one - there's no yawning and then saying you're tired. It's set. You're in. I don't want to say you're committed to the event - but you have an appointment. Also - I'm thinking that this kind of sneaking around was not occuring in the dead of the night - probably a lot earlier than when you're asking.
Now - I know with the kids, it's not all that easy to get anything done before they go to sleep - but maybe in the morning would work? (Tho, I'm not a fan of that either - I really just like my sleep.) Or, at the least, maybe you could look at it in this less offensive way. (And, like I said - I totally understand. I wanted to beat my H every time he said he was tired for a few months post DDay because all I could think about how he got up at 5am - every morning to either bang OW or maintain the appearance that he had to leave for work that early so that the banging occasions looked like routine. )
NJGal- Ya. I don't think he thinks I'm serious. I told him that a few weeks ago - used those exact words actually - that it would blow over - he denies it.
But, just the same- I really have no idea how he views our relationship right now. I told him last night I'm going out next weekend. And, I volunteered that I'm going out with some girls. Now, these are not my usual married gfs, but I guess I didn't specify that. In any event, he said something like - well what did you think I would think (about who I was going out with) and I said I have no idea what you think, as I don't.
Ats: I'm so sorry. I think that this problem is as old as the ages.
BUT, I have learned something from our wonderful LTA men about the "language of sex" to men. I didn't realize how important emotionally and feeling loved it was to men. The way you guys have explained it, I didn't fully realize it. It's important to most women too, but I think a lot of women can feel that closeness from conversation, affection and cuddling, etc.
Also, and this is a BIGGIE...especially from mothers of small children..kids are "at" us all day, pulling at us, etc, that we are physically touched more than a man and sometimes need to regroup to ourselves.
Ats, you may need a few MC or even a sex therapist (more for your FWW) so she can realize more fully how important this is to you. She is only looking at it from her perspective, and I am guilty of that with both my WH's, especially when the kids were younger.
For me, it was a lot like I was too tired to go to the party, but once I got there, I had a great time!!
Allgood, I have a crazy suggestion that may work with your WH. Just for an experiment, try not to talk about the A, or your relationship or whatever for a few weeks. Just enjoy each others company. If you trigger, you can say you are triggering, but don't discuss it.
WH, will see how good it can be. He will remember how great everything is.
After that time, you, yourself can detach a little and calm down. Then you can have a calm quiet talk with WH about how the old marriage is dead and does he want to work with you to create a new relationship or not? Just think over what I'm saying.
I just noticed that when I pulled back like this from WH and just started to enjoy each other's company, he wasn't so defensive and when we did finally talk, it was more productive. Granted, WH has not changed his behavior, but we were able to communicate more....I wanted to communicate more so we weren't enemies so when the time comes it might be easier to negotiate.
I don't know if I'm making any sense.
I should've taken notes because I wanted to respond to more people. I wish there was a way one could go back to the previous pages when you are posting a reply.
Welcome to the newbies and good to see the "oldtimers". Like Dip, I don't know where I belong. I realize that I've been here for a year now, and was lurking a while before that.
Laura, Dip's expression "up to one's ass in gator's" is like "knee dip in shit" etc, but in your case, it would be more like "up to your a** in "crocs"!" I hope all is well with the floods receding and the ducks are ok. I love your butterflies.
M3, I hope all was well with your power out and your house is warm.
Miracle, I loved how your DS handled the situation with his father. He is really growing up.
Hugs to all who are facing anniversaries and anti anniversaries.
Anyway - I was just jumping on to tell y'all he's singing Elvis with the ear buds in LOUDLY and I want to stab him.... (ok, no one call 911, I'm just being dramatic....)
And, now that the diva has finally agreed to sleep, it's ME time- yippee! On to the treadmill, cuz the thought of going to the gym at this hour is just ridiculous.
Night all. Sweet dreams.
Advise (I hope)
If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?
She is more than happy to rub moisturizing lotion on me, just no sex. She feels it is the same. MC for tomorrow, she cancelled the appt today.
sigh, my right arm is starting to resemble one on a ML pitcher.
ohh, and DS18 is mad at me and going to change is name from the family name to his knickname and FWW's last name.
what to call it. Our marriage is not bad but it is not good either. It was scarred. We worked through LTA, I guess in our own way, and we came out on the other side. Can't say our marriage is so much better b/c of the A. Nope can't say that. But we're still here.
so is this enough FSA? After dday I pomised myself I wanted better, very good, or nothing. I am ready to admit I am the problem, but I do not want "not worse" as the payment for all of this. With what I have learned I am confident I would chose beeter a next time, and nuture and develop better a next time. FWW is greatly improved, but when you start in the pit, success may be achievein flat ground. No real heights of love and success.
FSA: I'm glad to hear that you have gotten through to the other side and you, yourself are feeling better. Hopefully, your M can still improve and you will be happier.
Problem is (for her maybe), that the work I did to heal and "fix" me, gave me new appreciation for my value.
This is a very important thing, Ats. You also mentioned something about co-dependency, which is something I think I have succumbed to over the years with my mom and it spilled over to other areas of my life.
Ats, you have been working so very hard at trying to fix the M, helping your wife, looking at yourself to help the marriage.
Now is the time to get reaquainted with Ats, KWIM?
I do agree you guys need to go to MC to discuss more "things".
Don't worry about DS. You will survive the teen years.
Finally Friday night and I can catch my breath. Made today's deadline and got all my jobs done. Have more to do for Mon but at least have the weekend and the only one who will suffer if I don't get these done is me. So I can handle that. There were more than 40 staff depending on me to have jobs done by today so glad I made it.
I just LOVED your shoplifters analogy. I LOVED it!!!! I think/hope it applies very much to my H. He really has tried hard since Dday (except for the lying about the As). I know he lies because he is ashamed, doesn't want to face the damage he has caused and doesn't want to hurt me. I am becoming more and more convinced there were more OWs. Call it my "gut" - a sixth sense that kicks in when I ask him about others. Maybe there's a slight hesitation before responding, maybe it's his tone. I really can't say. I can just feel it. Maybe I'm looking for something that's not there. Maybe I'm just paranoid.
Anyway, I need to decide whether to keep asking about others or to let it go. If he keeps saying there were no others I don't think I'll believe him if he says no. If he finally admits it then what will I achieve? I'll just have more questions, more hurt and maybe more lies and minimising. I don't want another dday. I've told him this. I've told him I just want to know it all now and get it over and done with. I just don't know what to do! Is this some kind of "rug sweeping"??
What I suppose also bothers me is that he denied all 3 As and only admitted when I was able to PROVE I knew. I found out about OW3 - he denied until I said her name. I asked if there had been others and he said no. I found out about OW2 - he denied until I told him details. Same with OW1. I have begged and threatened for info about others. I have told him if he tells me now I will still try to R but if I find out in a year's time that there were others I will leave him. He still says these are all there were. I know he "does stupid well" and lies so I still don't know!
The thing is I have the hurt from the 3OWs I know about. Do I need more? Will it be worse? I don't think so. I think it will just be more. OTOH if I still think he's lying will I continue to feel so bad! I HATE THIS SHIT!!!!
Thanks for your additions to UKgirl's analogy. I am considering copy/pasting both posts and rewriting in a form I can give to my H and asking him if it is applicable. "Is this how it was for you?" I keep asking him how he felt and he just says he felt guilty and doesn't remember anything else. Will be interested to hear his response.
So tired people. Can't go to bed yet as I know I won't sleep. Have been having bad nightmares and very restless nights. H is trying hard to help me but I'm exhausted.
Thinking of you all.
UKgirl - you still haven't said what's happening with your gut
Dip- thanks so much for making me laugh and I do hope your W is not continuing to worry you
Please keep posting - I love hearing your thoughts
I found out tonight that OW3 (he works with both OW2 and OW3) has gone away for a few days. I felt good tonight when I found out. I know you know how this feels.
In Australia we would call him a dumb prick. Sometimes I think we should each take another BS's WS aside and say "Listen here dickhead. When will you understand that..... Your wonderful BS is doing everything to try to get you to see that you need to ..... Why won't you do .....It's not fucking hard!!! For God's sake grow a brain!!!!!"
We could even set up a special thread on SI. I could say "My WH needs to tell me about his other As. I know about OWzero to 3 but I need to be told about any others.". Then AGNG you could write to him and tell him to be honest with me. They don't listen to their BSs. Maybe they'd listen to another BS. Rambling here but hopefully you know what I mean. I could pm you his email and you could write and tell him how important it is to tell me the truth. people, I think it's like kids. If their parents tell them do this or don't do that, well we're just their dumb parents, but if someone else says the same thing well maybe mum and dad aren't so stupid after all? KWIM??
Just realised this is WS thread. maybe I need to ask WSs to chat to him. Silly me!!!!!
Too many Merlots. Will stop my rambling now.
Home tomorrow morning (evening for most of you) so will chat then.
Hope you are all sleeping well.
Ok - now that damn 70s song is in my head & if I have to suffer with that all day, I am gonna be pissed, pissed I tell ya! Lol.
But seriously- I agree with you that the sex frequency is way off. What can you do about that. She can't seriously think the lotion is the same as sex. And, does she at least get how you are upset/agitated/annoyed by this?
Honest: no need to slap yourself, lol. And, how are you btw? How's the cigarette protest going?
Laura: Yes, a dumb prick - that works here too. And, I believe a few of my H's friends already told him he's a dumbass. Actually, one really ripped into him a year ago and would you believe he came home mad? Like, all indignant, how "everyone forgets all the good stuff I've done..."
Update on me: the "talk" last night was pretty brief. He said how can he show me if I'm his priority if we are not really together as a couple. I pointed out that we were a couple for the past 17 months and he kept doing dumbass shit that makes me think the A is still ongoing, so what would be different this time. (No response from Mr. Allgood on that one.) Briefly reminded him that it was more of a shift in attitude and that each day I'm trying to detach more from him so he's wasting time doing nothing. He's asked for my "favorite" A book. (Can't wait til he gets to the part where I cursed him out in the margins. Lol.)
He also asked about my going out next weekend, who I was going with, where I was going and with the current status of our relationship if I would be comfortable dancing/talking, etc. with other guys. Hmmmmm.... Maybe someone found his thinking cap. Lol.
Aight. Got to go.
Peace out dawgs.
One of the guys on his shift who had an A was there alone. His wife is training out of state for an air marshalls job with Homeland Security. I have been chatting with her off and on since she has been away.
All of a sudden I spot this guy's OW. She walks right over to the table where we are sitting, he gets up and proceeds to have this smiley face conversation for about 1/2 hour. I was throwing daggers at her and him. He wouldn't even look at me. He already knows how I feel about him. I told him he's a fucken loser a few months ago.
I was just so ripping mad. I would want to know if this was my H and he was talking to OW, but I can't bring myself to say anything to his wife while she is away. She is trying to save the M.
I just had so many triggers last night. Seeing all of those cheating bastards just made me want to puke.
He is jealous and worried. Remember he asked you before who you would date if you guys were to D. The thought of you dancing/talking to other guys is bothering him. This is a weak area for him. You do need to exploit this weakness.