Dip: Me thinks you are right... Muah ha ha ha (evil laugh).
really small potatos, but proof positive that the man hasn't got a brain, and there is no wizard to give him one either...
had a huge snowstorm here, 18 inches i think....anyways, dd had to go to work yesterday afternoon til 9pm....so i had asked her earlier in the day if she wanted her dad to drive her since the roads were still a mess, she is still basically a new driver....she said yes....later on in the morning, she, me and pfm are in the kitchen, i ask pfm what the roads are like or will be like and he says..."supposed to be really icy, especially tonite"..so i tell him dd has to go to work at 3 til 9pm....so i ask him, "do you want to take her"...ok this is where he turns asshole..."lets see what the weather is later"....
well on several counts this is just wrong...first, you are her father, her "supposed" protector....she does not have alot of experience driving in all this shit...you are being asked to step up and instead you sidestep...then the other half of his ass....this is the child who knows what he did, this is the child who sees her a father as an epic failure, as a man who was not there for his family and a liar.....a man who's had several ow....and instead of stepping up for his daughter he sidestepped....
so a few minutes later the kitchen is cleared out and this is where he turned brainless...i whisper the faintest whisper "asshole"...he responds in a regular voice with my kids in the next room..."so, why am i an asshole"...so i shushed him and told him forget it, he is useless...a few minutes later he comes to me and asks about drving my daughter and i say ding ding ding.....a bit later he tells me he told her he would drive her....
such stupid assholey stuff....looking forward tho, looking forward....
so he gets the asshole of the week award...oh wait...mr allgood qualifies too doesn't he????
allgood: so he is showing some signs of concern at you having plans....good, sometimes a wakeup call is in order....the question becomes will it be enough of a call or will he need a foghorn???
njgal: i liked the analogy, it suits mr mjgal too....
so dip: how did you fix the pancake issue???inquiring minds want to know...
laura: the need to know
this is an individual thing, only you can decide what you can live with knowing or not knowing.....
is it enough that he is no longer cheating?
the rationale behind letting it go is a simple one, it really serves no purpose except drive a larger wedge between you and hurting you even more then you are already hurt, this is provided you believe he is done with his cheating and lying days in the present tense and the future tense...granted his history does not speak well for his honesty but your tech toys do confirm his words so far...
so letting it go would kind of do you want to be right or do you want to be happy since you may not have both....
on the flip side, and this is the one for me....i cannot live with someone who cannot trust me enough with all of who he is and was......so it comes down to trusting "us" with their worst truths.....and since he cannot do this i cannot let it go.....and to boot pfm is still an active liar, and he lies about anything and everything...i believe he is a compulsive liar, he just cannot help it or stop and does not want to either...if he did he would.....
fun: why didn't you put this man on the spot???...and if you were his wife would you want to know???...you hon are caught between a rock and hard place.....neither choice is a good choice....so which choice would you regret more, telling the wife or keeping the secret...and this man was a genuine asshole for doing this in front of you...he deserves what he gets...the wife tho....does not deserve any of it...
oh, one more small feat for manchild yesterday....he is a bully to scrawny boy alot...but scrawny boy has been having some medical issues and is under the weather....dd when she came home from work last nite got really loud...manchild yelled at her to keep her voice down that scrawney boy was sleeping...he actually yelled at her...i was impressed with this boy yesterday...i is proud..
again small potatos, but somedays that all i have...
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 9:26 AM, January 28th (Friday)]
I'm not answering your pancake question until you answer my toilet seat questions.
When pfm said lets see what the weather is later, did he think that there was going to be a sudden heat wave and melt 18 inches of snow and ice?
Hugs to the tribe.
[This message edited by old dipstick at 9:51 AM, January 28th (Friday)]
Dip: I'll answer the toilet seat question - you make a fair point. Personally, given my experience living with 4 males that treat the toilet as more of a suggestion than an actual goal to aim at, I prefer that the seat always be up this way I'm assured of a clean seat when I need it.
How long are you going to be incredibly angry all the time? Is that really who you want to be? Just a thought.
You've already decided your marriage to this guy is over.
Actually, all I got from WH were some fun pictures of the kids goofing off. They all did awesome AND both babies napped. Very cool!
ATS is so very, very right about how we should each want a great marriage. I read somewhere the other day how the M could never be as good as it could have been, blah, blah and it made me mad.
I totally disagree! I'm not going to settle. I'm just not. I absolutely insist the marriage wind up being the best every. If not, it will end. I also realize this will take lots and lots of time. I think that as long as you look back and say "how does now compare to two or three or 4 months ago?" and there is real progress -- the you're doing great.
It was 4 months ago that I *finally* got through to WH that, no, you really can't even be FB friends with XHSGF/OW2 (def. EA, maybe PA)
There has been a lot of real, positive change since then.
BTW -- just wanted to let you guys know that when I was all upset about the prolapse the other day, WH was very sweet and even called me a porsche this time. It doesn't really negate his assinine comment of Christmas Eve, but at least he's starting to get the point.
He's self-deprecating. I'm trying to get through to him that I'm not an extension of him and M#-deprecating is NOT cool...
Ok. I'm rambling.
Dip -- the toilet seats got darn cold in here with no power yesterday.
allgood: no, he didn't have a thought about her not going to work....
m3: cant help being who i am ...mama bear, whose cubs are being affected...the rest of his shit...is HIS...my kids....that is my achilles heel....and it will always be....
as for the rest of the anger...its getting better....i still get mighty angry at all he did, but i let it go sooner, i try not to dwell....it does no good to dwell on it...so i acknowledge it and move on...sometimes i rant, ramble and vent...and then move on...but the point is i DO move on....thank the lord up above i do move on...not always easy to do, the emotions are so damned strong, but so is my will...so it becomes this little battle between the angel and the devil on my shoulder...the angel is ahead now....at least at this moment.. cannot promise that the devil won't show her face..
I know us guys catch hell about our aim. You all think that if we hit anything we are happy. I do need to point out that it is easier to hit a target if you are sitting right on it. Some of us guys have a easier task when it comes to hitting the target. The closer you are the easier it is. Think about it.
Don't you have any of those furry toilet seat covers?
You really need to look before you sit. I would think you would catch on to this after you dip your butt in the water a few times.
His & hers. We would still use yours every once in awhile.
I did the pancakes using the frying pan in the grill.
Hugs to the tribe.
Some of us guys have a easier task when it comes to hitting the target. The closer you are the easier it is. Think about it.
What did your WH have to say about his co-worker and co-workers xOW's friendly interaction? (?? I guess x ??)
There really should be a shruggy i-dunno face here. Really? Lets see what the weather is later? Ding-dong, anyone home?
I would love for you to perfect a sly wouldn't-you-like-to-know smile and use it on Mr. Allgood when he asks stuff like that. Then walk away.
But if you diffuse the anger by smackin' 'em upside the head, then you get your power back. Right?
I just purchased another year-subscription of the keylogger service. Not happy to do it, either. Boo. I am impressed that it only took me until two weeks after DDay to figure out that such things existed, find one, buy one and then secretly install the thing. I am not the technically most advanced person, but if I put my mind to it... watch out.
I get to go to Boyo1's school now and talk about his problems focusing. His teacher dropped the term "learned helplessness" yesterday, with I think is complete bullsh!t (I researched it a bit after I heard the term). But it will be interesting to hear what the school psychologist has to say, and then we will start looking for professional help, as we're obviously unable to help him on our own. *sigh* He's such a smart kid. I had a mini-meltdown at work when I read his teacher's e-mail about his issues, then rallied myself. Two years ago, this wouldn't have phased me. Now the self-esteem, self-pity thing kicks in and I have to combat that. Took me about 10 minutes. Not bad, not bad...
I will have no internet access (gasp!) til Sunday eve.
You will be in my thoughts tho.
Your son's attitude also sounds a bit troubling...
Is this teenage stuff? or has he always been this way?
are the kids taking a cue from your wife in terms of how to interract?
Are you planning on telling the guy's wife?
Honest- How are things going? any luck with stopping smoking?
Laura- Glad you liked the analogy. I do think it explains those cases where the WS goes total NC and never looks back.
As for your needing to ask about additional affairs.
I was like that. I needed to know everything. I was crazed. I contacted the MOWs husband a few times and even met up with him in person to exchange evidence. I called my husband's co-workers (MOW was a co-worker). I called his boss. You name it.
I gathered all the info and then I would confront him with it.
I needed to know everything.
He wrote me a detailed timeline of the LTA-Where, when, what.
I would tell your husband that trickle truth often kills any chance of reconciliation.
You see it all the time of SI. D-day happens. The BS thinks they have the full story. The BS begins to trust the WS and decides to R.
And then, somehow or other some new information comes out and it's D-day all over again... the BS feels that there is no way that the WS can be trusted and often it is the last straw.
Sit your hubbie down and explain this to him.
Tell him that eventually....all of the truth will come out.
It's better for all concerned if he tells you the whole awful truth now and gets it over with.
Concealing information because he doesn't want to hurt you anymore-is not a valid reason.
You have been hurt already.
The analogy here is.... pulling the Band aid off very, very slowly... extending the painful experience...or yanking it off all at once, getting it over with and moving on.
Tell him that in order to really begin reconciling you have to know what you are reconciling from!
Miracle- sorry that your husband was not very thoughtful in his interraction with your DD.
It could be a guy thing though.... (sorry, Dip and Ats, and Tryin) but moms tend to be much more detail oriented and also more over protective.
Dads tend to think things will work out on their own...
Just wanted to agree that the frequency that you are settling for is definitely NOT normal.
I agree, but she goes on and on about how normal it is. I maintain that it does not matter if it is normal or not, it is not working for me. I have been trying, and it is not working.
There could be many reasons for this....menopause, hormones, depression,guilt, etc.
All of the above apply.
But, the thing that bothers me is that your wife does not see it as a problem and is not seeking out ways to remedy the situation.
She doesn't seem to be trying at all!
What could it have hurt to have met you at the house at lunchtime?
Meeting for a few hours during they day "..is not what we do!" She gives me whole days to spend time. No sex, but whole days (except for work errands, cleaning, feeling ill/tired/etc) She met with the OM AT LEAST once a month (I know it was more) for 4 years.
Has she gone to IC? Would you be willing to go back to MC? would she?
Lately she has cancelled more than she has attended. Granted with holidays and death in family there have been excuses. We were to go for MC this morning, but she cancelled so we would not be in a bad "post MC mood" when her DD came to visit today.
As for DS, FWW painted me as the ogre for most of his life. If he did something wrong she absolved him of it and warned him not to let me know. They would let me go talk to a neighbot thinking his dog broke something only to later find out it was DS and FWW told him not to tell me. Like FWW, if anything is wrong in his life it is my fault. I am not sure how a name change will improve his chemistry grade, but there you go.
BTW, NEVER mix Adivan with grapefruit and vodka. The grapefruit juice interferes with the breakdown and elimination of the Adivan. Yes, I learned this after the fact.
Good guess, but you are wrong.
Thanks for the explaination about the anniversary date stuff. I noticed who was driving the bus and who was along for the ride in your post. Many men that I know would say that the whole marriage is that way.
My week started out pretty crappy. When I last posted FWH was ticked off at me because I didn't stop him from sleeping in the guest room the night before he left on a trip. I knew he was angry the next day but chose to not engage him about it and let him leave without making it all better. I actually had to call my sister to talk me out of going talking to him before he left. I knew that I would try and defuse his anger (I always do) so I had left the house and did some shopping. In any case, he left and by the next day he was better. When he got home the next day I could feel myself starting to get anxious again. So....I did what any normal person would do....I ran away!! Seriously! I took a last minute trip to see my DD at college an spent two night in a hotel...ALONE!! It was wonderful! I have to say thet FWH was pretty understanding about my wanting to get away and even booked the hotel for me. He was also very helpful in getting me home yesterday as the snow in the NE was making for a difficult time getting a stand-by seat on a flight home. It was important for me to be home for our MC session this morning. And I'm so glad that I was....
We started on mapping out FWH's FOO. It took us 1 1/2 hours to get through his family and it was very interesting. I have to say that I felt bad for FWH. He was taking a lot of negative feedback about his family. That's not something that he's used to. Usually it's my family that is screwed up and we consider his family to be "normal." Well, as it turns out, when all is said and done, his family is no prize either! One significant outcome of this morning's session was that the MC asked FWH if his dad had had an A. When FWH said that he didn't know for sure, but suspected that his Dad had had an A, the MC asked him if he would be willing to talk to his Dad and ask. So....FWH took his Dad to lunch today for the talk. Dad denies having an A, but FWH ended up telling his Dad about his own A. I'm fine with it, as long as MIL and FIL don't share the info with their prayer group. The church that they go to is very popular in our town and everyone would know our business. FIL promised to keep the information between them and not share with their church friends. (I'm keeping my fingers crossed on that one!)
FWH left for another week out of town this afternoon and he was pretty down as I left him at the airport. Sometimes he seems so childlike. At one point he says, "You know, I'm not that bad. Other guys are much worse than me!" I'm thinking...what is he, 9 years old?? I told him that I've never said he was "evil" but that what he did was unacceptable in our M. Whatever.... Does anyone else's WS seem "needy" to them? It's almost like FWH needs so much validation right now that he's "not that bad" and yet I'm the one that got cheated on! But I guess that just goes along with the WS's "me, me, me" attitude.
Ats....I don't have a lot of experience and my advice is worth about what you've paid for it, but don't accept half of a M. If having sex 1-2x/month is not enough for you, than that's all the reason you need to leave this M. You deserve to be happy as much as your WW deserves to be happy.
Miracle...I would have been royally pissed at my FWH if he had waffled even a little bit about driving DD to work on a bad weather day! Again...who is the adult here??
I should comment on so much more, but it's taken me hours to get caught up just reading everyone's posts. Hope everyone has a peaceful weekend!
Her H wouldn't even look at me last night. In fact, another loser on my H's shift wouldn't look at me either and they were both sitting at the same table as me. I came late so I'm sure if I was there earlier they would have not sat at the same table. I wonder if it's because a few months ago, I told them they were all a bunch of asshole losers!!
Of course my H didn't say a word about what was going on right in front of everyone. I told him that his buddy should have not gone near OW. My own H doesn't get it. He never answered me. Would not engage in any conversaion about it. I'm getting mad just thinking about it.
Miracle - what would you have said to him if you were in my situation? There were so many people at this retirement party I didn't feel it was appropriate. But they got the evil eye from me!!!
I hate hate hate this.
M3: I'm glad to hear that your WH is stepping up a bit.
At least there is some progress!
Strongish: I truly understand how hard it must be to try to R when Wh is not there all the time. Your MC session sounded like you guys were getting somewhere. That is good. I think that a lot of "crap" has to be dug up and cleared before a new foundation can be established.
Nell: It's so hard to have to deal with other things other than the A and especially when it appears that the A has had far reaching repurcussions touching our kids' lives. Real life goes on...kids in school having troubles with or without the affair. It's hard. My DS 12 has a slight case of ADD, just enough to get services, but it's hard to deal with at times.
Nofun: What a hard situation you were in!! Of course your WH will not say anything because he knows he's guilty of the same indiscretions and doesn't want anything to be said to him from you. I think your decision to tell the wife when she returns is a good one. She doesn't need to have to deal with it while she's away, she has enough to deal with.
As for me, ok, hit me, but I haven't been doing as well with the smoking as I thought I would. I postponed it for a while, still cutting down and preparing, though so that's good.
Bringing Mom home from the Rehab tomorrow. Have to sleep overnight with her at her apt and had to go through hoops to get the DS's to sleep over at neighbor's and older DS 31's house. I don't know why I get so anxious about this.
I very worried about some other things, and don't want to discuss it openly here.
Ats, you do need to discuss this with a MC and/or a sex therapist. There is more to this than your WW wants to admit, and if it makes you feel any better, I fully believe it has NOTHING to do with YOU. It's something to do with her.
This may sound crazy, but your WW may have problems with sex and she did it with the OM to "keep" them interested. Now, while she is going through therapy, it is a sore spot with her because of FOO issues. She is willing to give you up because deep down she may feel she doesn't deserve you. I hope this makes some sense. I'm not saying this is an excuse, but to just allay the feelings that it's YOU and she doesn't love you enough. The problem is that she doesn't love herself enough.
Dip, I hope you are doing better with what was bothering you. You took a big step a few days ago to share that with us, and that was great that you trusted us enough to share.
Please don't hesitate to share more with us. You have always been there for us with a smile and humor.
NJgal and FNF thank you for always being there for us!! You guys are wonderful.
Laura, hang in there. I've been thinking about you.
Hugs to all the newbies and the "veterans".
Today would have been my daughter's 17th birthday. The winter she was born was very similar to this winter with so many snow storms, except there were ice storms.
Hugs to everyone.
today must be hard for you dear heart....
i am only a pm away if you want to talk...
tomorrow, a nite with your mom...u r bringing xanax arent you or wine...just alittle something to take the edge off...
fun: what would i have said:
well in front of people, i would have mentioned that "i spoke to ________(wife name) today.....and i will be speaking to her again tomorrow, any messages?"....or "have you spoken to _____(wifes name), i am sure your wife would be sorry she missed this party, can't wait to fill her in on ALL she missed" or "________(guys name) are you going to introduce your friend, i am sure _____(wifes name) will be so sorry to have missed this opportunity to meet her/you, i will have to fill her in on everything she missed this evening"
in private, i would hold nothing back and give it to him straight, letting him know that as soon as she comes home he needs to fill her in before i do....and that he should be so damned ashamed of himself....and if he loves his wife his tune needs to reflect that at all times....and if he is done then let her go...
strong: i am glad he came through for you for your alone time....support is a good thing....and i could so so understand about getting through all the foo shit....i always knew my foo was nuts, but that is just it, i knew it...pfm used to swear up and down, sideways frontways and backwards that his foo was not only normal but wonderful.....how he hasn't tried to buy the brooklyn bridge yet, i don't know...or maybe he did....
ats: no meds should ever be mixed with alcohol...thats in the rule book too you know..
the grapefruit part....i think there are actually a few meds that do not mix well with that...
i think you should make the app with a therapist of your choosing and tell her you are both going, not giving her a choice...
about your ds: i can relate to stupid kids...they say and do stupid....they do grow out of it...at least for manchild's sake they had better.. and until then, hide all weapons when in the immediate vicinity, take some meds OR alcohol....walk away, run away even.....and then just when you think they have grown up and are becomming responsible, you will have to repeat....like shampoo, lather, rinse repeat....
allgood: wherever you are i hope you have fun and peace...
but at least he's starting to get the point
oh my gosh i hope so i really do!!!
oh and fun...i would have also given my husband a huge earful upon leaving this shindig....there is no way he could justify what happened...and it would make me feel hugely UNEASY if he thought this was normal...and it would have gone i believe a long way in my healing had he been the one to speak up.....long way!!
I would have loved to have been there. If I had had the courage (which I'm not sure would have been the case) I would have
1. Whispered in his ear (smiling all the time for those watching) "Listen dipshit, you need to keep it in your pants. Everyone knows the whore over there has herpes/chlamydia/the clap (whatever takes your fancy) and when I tell your wife you were chatting her up I know she won't be happy"
2. Then still smiling whisper to her, "Honey, he obviously is still leading you on. Not only did he tell my h he is staying with his wife, he has also been fucking another woman and I've heard she has (insert STD)."
3. Finally, I'd phone his wife and ask her to meet you when she gets home. Tell her what you said and why. She may be able to support the story which will help her get rid of the whore. Maybe she had an "iffy" test result??? Maybe she has "strange" symptoms???
They'll be having kittens worrying about what they may/may not have. Each will also think the other is lying - as cheats do!!!!! Even when they get their test results they won't be sure.
I am still considering whether to tell OW1's H. I think I will one day, but not until I am sure it is the right thing to do.
OW1 works in the aged care facility where my mother lived for 9 yrs before she died. She often came in to my mother's room and talked to me and the children. After the kids left home she would come in and ask after them and my H. I never gave it a thought as the staff there are always friendly and lovely. My aunt now lives there. I haven't seen my aunt for 8 months because I can't face going in there knowing OW1 may be working and knowing she sat in my mother's room and pumped me for info about my family. I hate her!!!! I am seriously considering seeing the administrator of the facility (who I became good friends with and who I saw sobbing at my mum's funeral) and telling her my story. OW1 should be sacked for asking me about my family after fucking my H!!!!!!! She used her position unethically. Do you agree or is this just the bitch in me wanting to punish her???
This has been on my mind ever since I found out about her. I loved my mother so much. She was the most wonderful person. The rotten mongrel skanky whore sat in my mother's room being all nice and friendly and the whole time she had been fucking my H. I am SOOOOOOOOO angry!!!!!!
On the theme of telling people:
Today at the supermarket I ran into one of my H's workmates.
Not literally unfortunately
I know he has been screwing nurses for most of their married lives (I've only found this out recently). He's now 67 and as far as I know has stopped. His wife is lovely. They do everything together (I have never seen either of them alone except when I've seen him at work at the hospital). Maybe she knows. I don't know. I am fairly sure he has stopped now and wonder if there is anything to be gained by telling her????
In a truly shitty mood tonight people. Sorry to be so negative. I really do try to be positive but tonight I keep hearing the same refrain "How could he do this to me for 16 years?" (probably longer)
I HATE THIS SHIT
Love to all
[This message edited by Laura28 at 3:27 AM, January 29th (Saturday)]
Forgot to say I also love miracle's idea. It is as good ... no maybe better.... than mine.
Whichever.... we need to plow the boot into these whores!!!!
I really want to see my H's whores again soon. I fantasise about running into them in our small town <20k. Odds are high and I look forward to it!!!!!!
[This message edited by Laura28 at 3:21 AM, January 29th (Saturday)]