After d-day I was a total wreck and told way too many people about the LTA... I just couldn't stop myself...
One of the first people that I contacted was a co-worker of my husbands.
She and her husband had started working at the same company as my husband at the same time as my husband... right out of college and I had known them for 30 yrs.
We were not real close but did keep up on family news etc.
And, she continued to work closely with my husband.
Her husband had left the company years ago.
So, one day on the way home from work I decided to drop by her house.
I landed on her doorstep after not seeing her for years and proceeded to pour out the story of the LTA.
I especially wanted to share it with her as she did know the OW.
Well,it turns out that she had been dealing with infidelity as well...and if possible her story was even worse than mine...
I listened in disbelief.
She was so angry and bitter about the infidelity and did not feel that she could ever forgive him.
She and her husband continue to live in the same house but have separate bedrooms etc.
Their children are grown and out of the house.
She is staying in the house out of stubbornness, I think.
I have also wondered at times if they stay because they really do have a deep love for each other (they were childhood sweethearts).
But, recently, she told me this story....
she was traveling for work and had a very very serious health emergency.
She needed emergency surgery and knew that there was a chance that she could die.
Her co-workers asked if they should call her husband (no one at work knows about the infidelity).
She thought about it and decided to call one of her children instead.
She said that she could not bear the thought of her WS being with her as she breathed her last dying breath.
I thought about that scenario.
If it were me...and I was away from home and very sick...who would I call? who would I want to be by my side?
I think this is a good indicator of whether or not your marriage is salvageable.
I think that if you imagine this scenario and you would not want to have your WS at your bedside then you have your answer.
As horrible as my FWH's betrayal was... I still feel very close to him. He's the one that I would want to be with me in my time of need.
I guess that's why we are reconciling.
njgal3480 quote]If it were me...and I was away from home and very sick...who would I call? who would I want to be by my side?[/quote]
Miracle- when you describe all the turmoil in your household between your kids and their father...is it really worth it for him to stay in the house?
yes right now it is, but slowly, very slowly the tides are changing....the biggest issue i will have when the time comes is not being able to stay in my home with the kids...i believe he will force the sale of our house....and after selling i do not know that i could find something affordable in my now neighborhood...i still have one kid left in the high school after this year...he has 2 years to go.....
the turmoil: is not what it used to be....he and i used to fight all the time, disagree and have major discussions...he was also an animal to me and the kids for the year or 2 prior to d-day.....and actually a couple of days prior to d-day the arguments improved...that was because he added another ow in those days....and it was the week prior to xmas, so his mood was light for him....
living here for my kids is great...my kids truly love their home, invite friends over all the time, the friends invite themselves over all the time....there is so much here for teens to do, it really is teen rec......their dad is no longer on their case, even though manchild will still feel he is, he is not compared to what he was....he has done a 180.....he still though has no clue what it is to really "parent" to be involved with his kids, to become a part of their lives....his efforts are half assed most of the time, and the kids see alot what he does to suck it up to me....they see his "need" to please me....and its not a healthy need....the man does not stand on his own 2 feet, and everytime he tries, he shows to left feet tied together and on fire....
i am also a sahm with no income....which puts me in a bad place financially....and staying home with my kids has always been what i wanted above all...so that is what i have and that is what i concentrate on....they are older, so i do go out without any of them.....i am developing my own personal life totally separate from my family...not easy, but doable....i am learning to do my own compartmentalizing....
nell: talking about those cars, also provokes some memories for me as well....i am sorry your son is having teacher issues....(also been there done that)...and am really happy that the school pychologist is on his side....it will help...is there anyway to transfer him to another class....
and your husband is in line with mine for the daddy award....why is it that they cannot "see" anything past their egos....is this a man thing or is this a man who has issues thing...im thinkin the latter...i have seen a few dads not have these vision problems.....
lostsoul: i am glad you get to spend so much time with your grandson, they are truly a blessing and filled with such pure joy when they are so young.....use that joy and let it surround you and when your feeling are dark, put his little face in your minds eye, picture his smile and hear his laughter in your heart....children can be so healing for our souls....
and definitely add laughter to every single day....whether it be here at f&g or another site that has jokes....if you have a fave comedian go to you tube and download some of his stuff....jeff dunham is one of my faves....
nell: i love your humor.....
who do i want if i were on my deathbed...this one is easy...my mom and my kids....i dont even want pfm and any of his foo at my wake/funeral....if they could not respect me in life i don't want their respect in death...
speaking of death, i have wished it upon pfm daily since d-day....this has not wavered....i hope that once we formally separate this will change, i want it to change mostly because it means he still has power over me, it means that his actions will still continue to control me and i do not like to be controlled...nope, nope nope.....
honest: i pray you have a peaceful nite with your mom..keep repeating this is one nite only....and your other "stuff" gets better....
My H was a dickhead before dday. He neglected and alienated the kids, abused me verbally and emotionally and was never there for me. Not once. I thought often of divorce, got sick of trying to do things "right" to please him, begged him repeatedly to "try" with both me and the kids - all to no avail. When my daughter was about 13 she once said "Mum I don't know why you married him. You could have done so much better!!!"
Since Dday he has been a model H. Does so much to try to please me. If I take out the duck obsession (which has abated somewhat) and his inability to tell me the truth about his As, then I would have no complaints at all. He has never once tried to blame me for his straying (which I know some do) and readily says he was selfish, didn't think he'd ever get caught and didn't think of the consequences. He has put up with my crying and raging and never complains. He doesn't try to defend himself when I lash out verbally - just reassures me that he loves me, is sorry and will never do it again. Once or twice he has said "You really hurt me with some of the things you said last night". I know I did.
If I was 100% sure that he would stay like this I would be very confident in our ability to R. He is, at present, the H I always wanted. I suppose because he was such an arsehole for so long I keep waiting for him to revert back. I have actually told him that if he does we are finished. My two dealbreakers are more affairs and being an arsehole!!!!
As horrible as my FWH's betrayal was... I still feel very close to him. He's the one that I would want to be with me in my time of need.
I too feel like this - at present. May change in future.
had she been a predator of sorts...maybe....
In a way, I think she was and maybe still is a predator.
I believe my hatred for OW1 comes from my conviction that she started him on his LTAs. Let me explain. Long but needed to show why I feel this way.
OW1 was a patient in the hospital about 16yrs ago. She was in town visiting a friend when she had a serious accident. She was married with 2 children. She and her family lived about 300 miles away. She was in hospital for 2 weeks after the accident. She became "friendly" with my H. When she left the hospital he had to take her down stairs in a wheelchair to a cab. She had to stay in town for a few weeks as she was unable to travel and needed outpatient treatment in the hospital as the small town she came from didn't have the facilities. She stayed with a girlfriend. When he took her to the cab she gave my H her friend's phone number and said "I'd love to see you and have coffee one day". Fucktard rang her, went to visit and she seduced him. He visited her regularly for a number of weeks. When she was ready to go home to her family she asked my H to drive her. Dickhead agreed. Told me he needed to get away for a few days to "think"!!! I was gobsmacked. What do you mean? Where are you going? etc. Lots of lies. He was gone for 4 days. I didn't know where he was. My kids were 4 and 8. He came home life went on! (He told me all of this about 3 months after dday when I finally put 2 and 2 together and asked about those days he "disappeared"!)
Then a few months later she left her H (and her kids!) came back here and lived with the friend for a few months. Rang H and he started "visiting" again. This went on for some months. The friend then left town and moved to another city. OW1 went with her. A year or two later OW1 met and married her current H and they moved back here just after. SHE HAS NO TIES TO THIS TOWN EXCEPT MY H. After a few months she got in touch with my H again and they started talking on the phone for hours each week. My H visited her and her H. Her H thought they had been friends for years and knew nothing of their PA. I knew nothing of his "friendship" with either of them.
My H then began with OW2 about 8yrs ago and OW3 about 2 yrs ago. He and OW1 discussed his affairs on the phone. I don't believe she showed disapproval. If she had he would have either stopped fucking them or stopped talking to her about them. I sometimes wonder if she actually encouraged him. She is a sick woman. All this time she was working in the aged care facility where my mother lived and asking me about my h and kids!
After dday I went to confront her. She wasn't home but her H was. I told him that I knew from phone records that he (or his wife) had spoken to my H often and that I'd just found out my H was having affairs. I wanted to know what he knew. He said he didn't know anything. He was so nice to me. My H's affair with his wife was before they met and married. I now realise my H had an EA with her after they married. I didn't know what to do but chose at the time not to tell him about the EA. I didn't find out about the PA until after I spoke to him. He was so kind to me I didn't want to hurt him. Now I still don't know what to do. Ow1 does not deserve him!!!
I asked for opinions about this in General. I explained the sitch in more detail there. If you are not already sick of reading this long post you might want to have a look at it.
go to administration, tell them your story, tell them that when you visit she needs to be assigned elsewhere, so that you do not have to see her and deal with her....
let her keep her job
let her keep her job
The administrator loves me and the kids and loved my mum. She was devastated when she died. I suspect her reaction to me telling her about OW1 will have serious consequences for OW1. She could lose her job. I cannot find out her work hours without telling.
I can face all of the others. I have spoken to them all personally and on the phone and told them what I think of them!!!! But this one is different for some reason. I have conronted OW1 at her home. I told her that my H "couldn't remember" details and I just wanted to know about their relationship. I was very calm and quiet. She denied all but then told me I was nuts, needed psychiatric help, that it was all a long time ago and I should "get over it!". This was about 3 weeks after dday. She then told me that her own XH had cheated on her. I said "You are a liar. If he had you would understand how I feel." Anyway, she was a cold bitch. unlike her lovely H who I had spoken to a few days before.
maybe you could tell this man to get himself tested and if he comes back clean let it be
I might do this. Sounds like a good idea. At least I will then know his W should be safe. Also it won't hurt for him to know I know. May keep him behaving if he thinks I will tell his W if I hear of any more OWs. I really do think he is ok at present.
Anyway, I'm going on forever. Some of you must be falling asleep.
H and I had a lovely day out today. Things are good at present Hope you are all OK.
Lots of love and hugs
[This message edited by Laura28 at 3:39 AM, January 30th (Sunday)]
But he never gave any of that a thought when he decided to have an A. He didn't give me enough thought to know how THIS betrayal would destroy me and our M. In fact, he tells me it "hurts" when I tell him that he betrayed me. Go figure.
They just didn't THINK at all did they? I wonder if because they never really thought about how deeply their betrayal would hurt us they in some twisted way don't see it as betrayal? IOW, "I didn't know my actions would do so much harm therefore it's not my fault that you are so hurt?" Twisted logic but then again they are good at that KWIM???
[This message edited by Laura28 at 3:12 AM, January 30th (Sunday)]
So sorry your son is having problems with this teacher. I have been teaching HS for 32 years and have been in charge of seniors (16 to 18 yr olds) for many years. Unfortunately teachers are like everyone. there are some great ones and some fucktards.
I am proud to say that all my kids love me. I am a great teacher. Get wonderful results and can "relate" to kids. I love my job!!! I only say this so you will know that I know what I am talking about.
The school KNOWS about this teacher. As part of the executive I have often had to deal with situations like this. If it is a good school they will help you. Treat them with respect, quietly ask for "help" with your son and they should help you. I have had lots of calls from parents about teachers I know are hopeless. If you are polite and ask nicely they WILL help.
Good luck. Don't give up. Just keep the pressure up nicely.
Interesting njgal. I can't even trust my H to take care of me properly when I'm dying. I just hope I don't go before him....I have a lot of life left.
I totally understand your rationale for staying.
The years that I stayed home with my kids were the happiest years for me.
I loved spending the whole day with them and never wanted to use a babysitter to watch them!
However, I was having trouble with my husband during those yearshaving to do with his drinking.
And, I did consider divorce as long ago as 1985 when my daughter was 1 and my son was 3 yrs old.
I went to see a divorce attorney and found out that our financila situation was such that I would have to sell my house, move into an apartment and get a full time job and put my kids in daycare.
These were all things that I did NOT want to do.
So, I decided to stay..
but, began my plan of action to get myself ready to leave.
I went back to college part time evenings for additional teaching certifications and then ultimately a Master's degree.
I would take the kids with me to the college day care facilities for the hours that I was in school.
It was actually a fun time for my kids-they still remember when we all went to college!
So, like you I was getting my ducks in a row so that I could leave.
I did end up going back t work full time once the children were in school.
But this whole story only added to my anxiety and confusion after d-day.
Here I REALLY had a reason to leave and I had the financial where with all to leave and my kids were grown and out of the house and meanwhile I was reconciling...
but, it was my husband's complete and total transformation that got me to change my made about divorcing him.
And, as long as this 'new husband' remains so will I.
I will still trigger and feel sad about all that has transpired but if I stay focused on the present and what my life is like today, hopefully, the triggers will happen less often and be less enduring, etc.
and , if my husband continues to be a very kind, loving, attentive, and patient husband...hopefully with time the healing will happen.
"I didn't know my actions would do so much harm therefore it's not my fault that you are so hurt?"
And this is why the Tribe is so valuable to me. You all help me "see" things more clearly.
They actually do pursue married men as opposed to single men because they like that dynamic better.
They do not want a real relationship.
They want the fantasy relationship without the reality.
And, the more the married man tries to distance himself from the OW the more she pursues.
I have written about my husband's OW before.
She had LTAs with married men throughout her 30+ yr marriage.
She was a serial cheater.
She started having affairs 2 yrs after she got married!
Her first affair lasted over 6 yrs.
He was a married co-worker and during those affair years the OW gave birth to 2 children!
That, is something that I will never understand.
How a new mom could not be 100% focused on her new little family!
How she would want to continue a sleazy affair and waste time on that instead of rushing home from work to spend more time with her babies!
her husband found out about that LTA and they reconciled but he made many mistakes (IMHO).
He did not demand that she leave the job.
He did not insist on total transparency.
He did not insist on major changes post d-day.
She was a drinker and she continued going out for drinks after work..she continued all of her travel for work (that she could have minimized).
He did not verify what she was up to... he did not ever snoop and check her emails etc.
They decided to have a 3rd child.and she continued cheating throughout...
when the youngest was 12 yrs old she embarked on the LTA with my husband.
She pursued him relentlessly..
whenever he backed away from her there would be a barrage of very sexual emails to remind him of what he was missing..
once again... she chose the LTA over her family.
She would beg my husband to gout drinking with her after work... whuch meant that happy hour would culminate with a BJ in the parking lot.
he told me that for every time he took her up on her offer that she had begged him over 10 other times...
(her emails prove this).
so, this clssy woman would rather be giving BJs in parking lots as opposed to rushing home to her young children....Nice.
I did think that the death bed scenario was a litmus test for how you truly feel about the marriage.
I kept thinking that my friend could still somehow forgive her husband (due to the fact that they had been together forever and were still living together).
But, when she told me that story.... that she did NOT want him near her at that crucial time...
well, I knew that she could never reconcile with him
That for her, the damage was too great....irreparable.
and, I realized that because my first instinct was that I would have called my husband right away meant that our marriage could be saved.
I suspect her reaction to me telling her about OW1 will have serious consequences for OW1. She could lose her job. I cannot find out her work hours without telling.
you cannot control the consequences, that is on her......i still think you should talk to the administration, and let them know that you do not want to be held responsible for her job in any way shape and form, you would just like to be able to visit family without having to see this woman.......if she does get fired then that is on them and on her.......
there used to be a show called barretta and the song of the show had the following line which i so love...
"don't do the crime, if you can't do the time"
I outted the OW to everyone at her job!
She did not lose her job but there were some repercussions.
She used to mis-use various opportunities in her job to pursue married co-workers.
For ex. she would sashay into other men's office under the pretense of 'work' and she would do things like expose her thong as she walked by...another time she flashed her breasts at a married co-worker (she also did this to my husband..so who knows how often she did crap like this!)
and remember... by this time she was an older woman in her 50's...
so, hearing these stories...
her boss did not fire her but... they did begin to 'supervise' her much more closely.
All the fears to overcome… why is it so difficult. The psychological damages are so great. Damage to self-esteem, intimacy, trauma, anger and power.
LTA are almost impossible to recover… The betrayer must have the ability to understand the love of an obsessive fantasy love can never compete with a love in a marriage..
The thrills are so different. To R, the betrayer must have resolve! To R, the betrayed must have resolve!
Nofun, you ‘ve taken a long time, much thought, your H does not want to address issues in your relationship. You are ready… Just pull the trigger.. DO IT.. make a decision.
Do not live another day unhappy. You’ll be fine... You owe it to yourself and your H to put you both out of misery. Obviously, he could never nor can.. just make a change.
To risk change… Let me tell you about partners available to you. Men with good jobs, men who would be attracted to you for your physical beauty. Men who understand relationships, how to compromise, how to be open with feelings, strong men..
Someone that would love you sweep you away.. a man thrown away because just as many women are lost as men out there… Everything comes to an end and every day there is a new beginning…
I’ve seen you photo, you are an attractive woman… physical touch love won’t be any issue for you.
[This message edited by trynhard at 11:36 AM, January 30th (Sunday)]
Be back later.
So, the phone call tonight...he got in from his airline trip but didn't even come home from the airport as he is leaving in just a few hours for a consulting trip. He has finally (after 6 mos.) started reading "Not Just Friends." He had called me earlier but when I didn't answer or call him back right away, he figured I was not answering because I needed some "space" as I had mentioned previously. (This is a touchy subject as he accused me of "ditching" his phone calls previously and that was one of his justifications for feeling neglected, hence the A.) He thought we could have dinenr so that we could talk, but since we couldn't eat he wanted to make sure that he told me that he FB friended a single woman in the city he just returned from (his airline trip and the city where one of the ONS's took place). She is an english-language teacher in this city that he had met some time before. He says that he told me about her before. I honestly don't remember that but he may have. Before DDay I didn't pay too much attention to the women that he would tell me that he met. I believed that I didn't have anything to worry about. But, back to my frustration....He agrees to be FB friends with her after meeting up with her, her BF and another guy last night. FWH just wanted to make sure that I knew about his being her friend on FB and that he didn't have dinner with just her, but that there were other there as well. He "reminds" me that if he is not going to be having dinner with the flight crew, he would contact her so that she could meet FWH and have him talk with her and some of her students to practice their english skills.
I was flabbergasted!! He's reading "NOT JUST FRIENDS" and he is telling me about his single, female friend in the city where he has cheated on his M!! And he doesn't see anything wrong with this, as long as he told me about it! When I told him that I wasn't comfortable with this, he proceeds to reassure me that he doesn't find her attractive. Like that's supposed to make me feel better!! He still does not get that I don't trust his word!! He thinks that just because he says so, that I should believe him. He then says, well, does it make sense that I would call and tell you all this if I was going to sleep with her? I told him that there's a lot that I've learned about him lately that doesn't make sense. It's like I have to constantly remind him that he is not trustworthy to me. Am I missing something here??
Also, I'm pissed that he's back to making assumptions about me, i.e. that I didn't answer his initial phone call because I wanted "space." I didn't immedidately answer his initial call because I didn't hear my cell phone as I was doing laundry and it was in another room. I saw that he had called 30 min. later and called him then. FWH insists that he wasn't "mad" or upset with me for not answering, but he's back to making up his own mind about my motives and intentions. He can't understand why I don't trust him, but he doesn't trust or believe me...and I never cheated on him!!
I'm at a loss. What is it going to take to get through to him??
So, I look forward to catching up with everyone over a nice cup of coffee tomorrow morning.
In the interim, I'm just gonna get this out now before I change my mind: I lost a bit of my focus/determination, etc. this week.
I am sending my H mixed messages. I really am.
I realize that's because
my heart does not want this. But, this photo - it's just hard to accept that it's exactly what my H says. This is not really a "gut" thing, it's more like if I was anybody else looking at this set of facts, I would say "Honey, come on, what are you doing with this guy?"
So, I have stronger moments, and not so stronger moments and that we were away together this weekend - well, it was hard not to get sucked back in. (Tho, I did directly shoot him down at his efforts to have me go out with him for a drink - don't even get me stared on the circumstances.)
To be perfectly honest, I think I would be most comfortable just doing the friends with bens thing for now, even though I know it's ultimately unfair to us both.
Alright - Isee I am prone to rambling already, so I'm gonna call it a night.
Talk to y'all tomorrow.
Honey, come on, what are you doing with this guy?
FLIP OUT on him about this single "friend" who he's "not even attracted to."
Trust me. Your WS is dumb. Not long after Dday, my WS showed me a text from his XHSGF who I'd found out had been texting him 12 times a day for months -- it was a picture of a woman's naked breasts (not hers) with Christmas ornaments hanging through the nipple rings. My WS was totally mystified why that was inappropriate, why being in contact with XHSGF was inappropriate, etc. etc. I mean, he SHOWED it to me, so it's ok, right?
We had some version of this fight about 4 times over the few months after Dday until finally he "got" it, but believe me, he "got" it at the last minute, when I pretty much said -- "look, I don't really want to divorce you because I open my phone bill and see that OW's BH sent you a picture message and you hid it from me, but I'm at the end of my rope here. It seems to me like you're just incapable of being married or being honest so I really don't have any good choices..."
Just, seriously, flip out about this chick.
Hi anyone I forgot!
Maybe I'll just hope for different levels in hell, and a broken elevator.
I read somewhere on here the other day that in the Inferno, Betrayal is the lowest level of Hell. So, you're probably good.
On a serious note: if I were having emergency surgery and thought I would die I would call my sister. She's my healthcare proxy now.
I had emergency surgery for a miscarriage back in 2008 -- I called WH and asked him to come and instead he chose to get drunk at an NCAA basketball tournament game with OW instead. Even OW was angry at him for that one. (He was also there with his BFF, so maybe she didn't get laid...) Anyway, my mother was kind enough to drive 50 miles to be with me.
So, you make your bed, you lie in it.
If that means we'll never truly be R, then that's fine. He can always D if that's going to be problem for him. Sadly, I've been hurt by him too many times and in too many ways to go out on a limb for him.