but heck... Wednesday night I got a two fer... Not bad for nearly 50...
This was in the book and I must hit the right button
[This message edited by trynhard at 10:57 AM, February 4th (Friday)]
Oh, wait, it's February... sorry, you actually need to turn it DOWN an eighteenth of a millimeter. And give it some wine.
need to go do some sqeezin now...
need to go do some sqeezin now...
Just finished my divorce agreement.
I was thinking about that picture the other day when the guy vs girl discussion was happening. I was just to big of a moron to be able to find that pic. From my perspective that picture is so true.
What are you going to sqeezen? I don't understand! Must be a private joke. I just hate being out of the loop.
Tribe. Just to clarify something. Having sex on a tube while at the lake is not as easy as it sounds either.
Hugs to the tribe.
You're not doing a separation agreement first? Sorry, if that's TMI.
Hugs to you. You are so strong. We are here for you.
She must have some real bitterness toward the men who have tricked her into making some poor choices throughout her life. Look ats, your W had affairs, sex before she knew what means, phone sex with BIL… You cannot possible believe she can have normal healthy thoughts all of the time. Of course there is hate.
Her feelings sound like Resentment. Resentment is the experience of a negative emotion (anger or hatred, for instance) felt as a result of a real or imagined wrong done. Causes? a perceived wrong done to an individual, and often are sparked by expressions of injustice or humiliation.
I have read where one way to overcome resentment is to write down your thoughts… OK she wrote it and you were tossed into the mix.
During my W’s A, I was the evil one. I could do no right. I cherished money over my M, I never understood my W, I did not have a heart, I spent too much time on the computer, I loved golf more than my W, I was cold, Something was wrong with me, she hated so many words I said, her life was following me, her life was about my decisions, blah blah blah.. I had to listen to all that shit. Fact is, you make life what it is on your own. Period.
I have grown to know that it is human nature to blame others for your own bad choices in life.
Does she know you read these notes? So, did you already discuss these notes with her? When was this crap written anyways?
I'm sorry. That would have hurt.
From my point of view:
She is hurting. She feels used by men from her previous experiences. She is afraid.
I can relate. My H fucked other women. What were they to him? If he loved them I am hurt. If they were just "slits" I am still hurt because it shows no respect for women. I am a woman therefore when he fucks me I am also just a "slit"?
Many women fear that men express love when what they really want is sex. We see this in movies, stories and know of situations like this that really do exist. How many times have you heard a man say "She doesn't love me, she's just saying she does so I will fuck her". Rarely I think and yet many women will say "He doesn't love me, he just says he does so he can get into my pants!!".
Please don't take this personally. I don't know what else she said but I would be more inclined to see it as an expression of fear - a cry of pain and plea for help.
It is good to see you living now… moving toward what you think you need to be happy. This is a short pain toward long term gain.
You deserve to feel safe, feel loved…
Somewhere in your mind, you must be thinking your H may wake up… and somehow want the M more than ever. So… should that happen, the questions then become.. What have you done to change? Did you quit your job to move away from OW? Did you seek out IC to figure out why you have no boundaries? Did you feel it necessary to change the way we communicate in our M by attending something proven like Retrou? Did you stop associating with people unfriendly to marriage? What exactly have you changed to possibly make me believe our M will change and be better?
But then again.. he may just say.. Give’m to me.. and sign.
The strength you have is who you need to be. You are an amazing woman. When you are ready to find a new partner, this new man will be one lucky guy.
[This message edited by trynhard at 5:14 AM, February 5th (Saturday)]
How are you?
I guess the hurricane didn't blow you away...
It is amazing the thoughts I have about butterflies now..
I see my life as one of those bugs...
In my youth, I came from this egg to start gorging myself with life… I loved life as a kid... growing up soooo innocent. I got married before I was an adult. My marriage was about me in that cocoon... Stuck in a web. I lived life in that protected cocoon not really knowing that life beyond my own innocenc, As I working toward this dream of freedom and pure happiness, It was time to cut out of that cocoon.. my wings now developed. When I broke loose from that cocoon and started flying, I fluttered back and forth in massive confusion until I learned what real life is about. We all are supposed to migrate and clump together in this one massive group with all these other butterflies.. Along the ways in that confusion toward migration, Some butterflies got eaten along the way. Some got hit by cars. But I made it and now ready to lay new eggs so life can carry on…
I know.. I'm wierd.. LOL.. But I don't care because this is me..
[This message edited by trynhard at 5:21 AM, February 5th (Saturday)]
Just wondering...was your husband always so distant and detached?
what was he like pre-LTA? what was he like during the LTA?
Is he worse now post d-day?
Sorry Tribe: As Dip says, I've been up to my ass in alligators.
Pre Dday H and I had good communication. We had our ups and downs but there was always love and respect. He never showed his emotions but I "felt" his love. H was always moody but I could always get to him and ease the mood.
He started to go out with "the guys" for drinks on Friday nights, met OW, and his whole demeanor changed. I was the bad guy, the kids were pains in the asses, nothing we did was right. We became distant and all this time I thought it was just something he was going through. I turned to myself for happineass and this is when I went back to school, and bought the company I now own.
Today he is struggling. He is trying to control his moodiness and he's been good with this so far. He will always have problems expressing his emotions. He tends to rug sweep. He has not been forthcoming with info about the A. There's been TT.
I'm not sure I want to deal anymore. While he was in the LTA (12 yrs) it was miserable. He was a shitty father, a shitty husband and now he wants to be kind and loving? I just can't understand it. Now he realizes how much he loves me?
I'm just bitter, and angry. I think LTA's are much harder to get past than a ONS or an A that was a couple of months. LTA's are cold, and calculated.
It's just so hurtful
Could these notes that you read be like that? That your FWW is just letting out feelings of anger that come and go? Feeling that all men just want one thing because of her FOO and then translating it to you too in a fleeting moment.
Feelings are real. They hurt or give us pleasure. But, as my IC is pointing out to me, just because I may feel a certain way, doesn't make it true.
Tryn: I like your butterfly analogy. I'm glad you feel you are flying free.
Nofun, it really sounds like your WH is depressed. I wish he would agree to go to IC and then to Retro. It would help him and help you in your decision about what to do.
As for me, it has been like I've been sitting at the edge of a pool, too weak and sick to go in. Now, I've been starting to pace knowing I must go in, but am afraid because I'm so out of shape. I'm trying to brace myself to dive in.
WH keeps trying to pull me back in emotionally. Texting he loves me, calling and saying he loves me. But actions speak louder than words.
Last night I asked my H if he was content living like this for the past month -with us barely speaking, some random sex... (my bad, I know. ) not working on our relationship. He said no. Told him I thought he didn't think I would really leave. He denied this. He told me he read75 pages of the book already, but didn't really have any comment other than to say that he recognized things I was saying to him from the book. I was impressed and surprised with how much he had read, but disappointed that it seemingly made no impact at all on him. Like M3 says, he seems to have no depth to him at all. Anyway, led to 1 hour conversation which was non-productive and heated (on my part). Told him the terms of the agreement. He said nothing.
This morning I started a text war that lasted about 1 1/2 hours. He just doesn't get it. He swears he has had no contact with her and that all he does is go to work and come home. Loves me, only wants to be with me but doesn't know how to prove that to me. Seemingly unable to acknowledge what he's done wrong (post DDay) and how those things can change. Ended up with me calling him a F--king asshole. Aaaah. Good stuff. Good stuff.
I am starting to believe that he really hasn't had contact with her. That was the major driving force behind me telling him we shouldn't talk anymore, have sex, act like a couple, in short, because I was done.
I've always had trouble pulling the trigger. Cuz then I have to live with the consequences.
fun: yes lta is quite different...you do have a before...granted your before was a really long time ago...but it exists...draw on it now if you can...
and yes, his bubble has burst and he no longer villafies you....he used that emotion to keep his affair going...to justify his actions, now he can no longer do that and he sees at least that much....
and fun if it were love he would have left....i think she was pure habit, a completely ego feeding...
honest: try dipping in some toes....let the water entice you... and try to see your ws on the other side hangin with the shark, who will hopefully snack on him...
oh and dip you asked what i would be sqeezin....google kegel
Then...like everyone else has been saying you might as well throw yourselves into R !
What do you have to lose?
You've had..what? 12 yrs of a so-so marriage... then you had 12 yrs of a hellish marriage... now you've had a year and 1/2 of heartbreak to get through....
a lot of crap to deal with with (trust me..I can relate!).
But, somehow, throughout it all you have stayed together! Your marriage has survived.
So...why not give it one last try?
Remember..divorce is very expensive...and maintaining separate homes is also...
so, go out there and spend some money!
You certainly will be spending a lot when you separate..so, you might as well spend some cash now trying to save the long term marriage.
so, I say all bets are off.
Go crazy- try IC for both of you, MC, Retrouvaille...do it all....
try yoga classes, sign up at a gym together, go for massages separately or as a couple.
Try taking trips together-day trips or overnight.
go out together every single weekend!
Find something to do in your area-museums, concerts,parks.
My husband and I have seen every dumb and not so dumb movie that has been released over the last 4 yrs!
We're going out again today- to see 'The Rite'.
Last weekend we saw 'The Green Hornet".
It gets us out of the house, out of our depressed or anxious states.. we have a few chuckles later about how awful the movie was...we go out for pizza or a nice dinner...
Try everything... and see if it makes a difference...
and, if after trying all of these things you find that you simply cannot 'get over' it.
Or..if he cannot make the changes you need to start seeing this marriage as a 'new' marriage.
Well, then ..you should file for divorce.
IMHO, after a LTA you have to reinvent your marriage.
Throw out all of the old attitudes,behaviors, habits, way of doing things....
the only way that you can move forward is if you see it as giving your marriage a fresh start.
Ats- I'm sorry but seeing something like that has to feel awful.
How could you not take it personally?
I could see that level of anger directed at the OM...who used her and dumped her but...you?
You are trying to forgiver her and save your marriage after LTAs? and she somehow sees that as a negative?
I hope she is in intensive IC.
I think I told you that my husband went to IC 2x per week for 6 months and then 1x per week for a year.
We also went to MC for 6 months, Christian counseling, and he went to AA for 4yr so far.
She needs to figure herself out.
One of the books that I read about female sex addicts (by Charlotte Kasl) said that most female SA were sexually abused in their childhood...
and, the need to have affairs is more about taking back the power.
I think my husband MOW was like that...the sexual conquests made her feel powerful and in control...it was not really about the sex.
She used the sex to exert power of these men....
Very complex...but, very difficult.
I met the MOWs husband. He was a very nice guy. Definitely did not deserve any of it.
He was a very devoted husband and father. He had forgiven the MOWs first LTA (that happened in the early '80's). He forgave her, took her back, they had a 3rd kid but IMHO he didn't make her accountable enough and she continued in her cheating lifestyle for another 30 yrs).
The WS really has to do a lot of internal work to change their whole way of thinking and looking at the world.
Looks like I started praying too early... the storms and the flight problems have come and gone and WH's twin should be here tonight. He's here through Wed. (I thought through Monday, wishful thinking, I guess.) Oh, well. I can do things to make myself scarce anyway. Now it will just be two toxic people I'm avoiding instead of the one. Sunday is the big day when we (might) all be in the same place. I should have a really productive day tomorrow, getting lots done, shopping and whatnot! Definitely hot yoga in the middle of the morning... that'll take me through lunch. Maybe Boyos need haircuts... that could be a good hour... maybe take Boyos swimming, that's another several hours...
I keep going over WH's statement: "If you want [twin] to be your friend, then YOU have to be HIS friend!" I'm writing my silent response down so that I don't have to keep thinking it (that's right, I'm venting!): I don't WANT a friend like your twin, WH. A friend who is an entitled dick, a narcissist, a user, a professional victim... he would be no kind of friend and would only drag me down. You call me a hypocrite because I have told you why I think the way you respond to your brother is twisted. You call me manipulative because I have told you how I feel and what I would like you to do. You have no concept of what those words mean. To be a hypocrite, I would have to pretend to be perfect while despising my own faults reflected in others. To be manipulative, I would have to use tricks to get what I want when I don't receive them freely. You see other people's faults reflected in me... I don't even know what to call that, other than bent. You defend the people who use you, who contaminate your life with their toxicity, who drag you down and encourage you to be your worst self. Congratulations. You're the worst kind of enabler. Until you figure your shit out, you're hopeless and you will remain mired in your own unhappiness. Don't tell me about your brother's problems when he goes home, I don't want to know.
Thank you. I'll be here most of the week!
Now. ats, I am so sorry... it must have been devastating to see yourself grouped with men who have used your FWW to soothe their own toxic selves. She has a lot to overcome. I'm sure if she knew that you read that stuff, she would be horrified. Do you plan to, or have you, told her that you found and read the notes? If not, and it bothers you, you could have a really productive conversation about the difference between you/your relationship and the men who have used and abused her and their relationship with her.
tryn, How are you doing? There seems to be an undercurrent in your writing lately. Everything okay?
nofun, I'm less bitter but more angry lately. Mostly, I think, because the wool has been ripped off and now I have to deal with what a shitty deal I've got. And I'm not sure how long to wait around to see if WH will be able or willing to meet my needs. And now I've got this whole other layer of hurt and negative feelings that I have to go through, and I don't want to make decisions based on "fuck you" but want to make decisions based on what's best for me and my Boyos... it's a very dark and confusing place and I don't like it!
Allgood, good for you!
Miracle... the sqeezin thing has me perplexed. Dip's not the only one... Please to esplain. ETA: Took me so long to write this (Boyo issues!) that you had already esplain'd!
Laura, people use other people for lots of stuff. Men use women for sex alot, at least in popular culture this is a normal story-line. Women use men for money, again, in popular culture. WH used OW for adoration. OW used WH to take care of her (like a daddy). They mutually used one another to fill unfilled Drama Triangle roles... *shrug* Sick and sad.
[This message edited by ImNellNow at 10:41 AM, February 5th (Saturday)]