"Nice Guy" equals beta attraction characteristics, "Bad Boy" equals alpha attraction characteristics. In a marriage or LTR you have to have both. Too much beta (attentive, steady beast of burden, not look at other women, predictable, reliable) and your wife will lose respect for you and other guys start to look attractive just because they are risk takers (willing to cheat with a man's wife). What should repel them attracts them. Not with any reason, understand, it's just what happens. Women say they want "nice guys" and they do in their rational brain, unfortunately woman make sex decisions pretty much based on hormones and body chemistry. Once pandora's box is open, all bets are off. There are actually blogs on blogspot and wordpress that are kept by women who rate and compare their husbands (beta) with the guys they meet on AM (alphas). Of course the nice guys are beta-ized by the very wives who betray them. Monogamous men have been shown to have lower testosterone levels than single men and married men with more than one woman.
As an aside, I've been accused recently, by my MC, my IC and my WW of needing to be the nice guy in social situations. Avoiding confrontation, but then causing more damage down the line. I see this as being true when it comes to my family (I don't get to see them as much as I should, so I do try to avoid confrontation once I do get to spend time with them), but I really don't see it in my every day life. I'm very comfortable with confrontation at work, and in situations where it's important.
The big exception here is with WW. Getting into it with her can be such a pain in the ass, I developed a coping strategy of just burying it, and then exploding every few months with all of the resentment that was lying under the surface.
Now that we're in R, I'm making an effort to let it all out. Should improve communication. Of course, I do have some substantial resentment about the one big issue. Trying to make sure that gets aired out too, but how many times can you say the same thing?
I don't know. I think niceness is over-rated. I don't associate it with weakness, but I do associate it witha tendency to leave things unsaid. And I have reacted pretty defensively when MC, IC and WW have accused me of "needing to be a nice guy," because I guess I do view it as a negative. And I've never considered myself to be particularly nice. I do think I'm a good and fair guy. And I do think my WW is a good woman who did a really shitty thing to me, and is working hard to own what she did and fix what she broke. Gives us something to work with. Sorry for the ramble. Just thinking out loud.
Monogamous men have been shown to have lower testosterone levels than single men and married men with more than one woman.
Actually, it's the opposite, they decrease when a man falls in love. Testosterone levels also decrease after becoming a father.
No idea why I said opposite, meant to say that's not exactly true.
[This message edited by StillGoing at 10:26 PM, February 9th (Wednesday)]
That's me...living on the edge, baby.
I guess it would have been clearer had I said "monogamously married men have lower testosterone."
The second part you note about kids lowering test is quite correct.
Here's one report on the finding in New Scientist:
Polygamous men do not suffer the same drop.
Funny ain't it? That seems to be the claim, though. It seems a little well placed uncooperation can work wonders for a guy.
[This message edited by palerider at 11:24 PM, February 9th (Wednesday)]
I don't know what to say cause I deal with the same questions myself. I wont leave, cant seem to find that road, but I do think about it more often now. But not sure that is the answer, gotta worry about the kids.
Yet in the same thought, if my W was to start saying that the A was a defining moment for her, well it would have the same effect as having the A again. Showing that her mind is not with you but somewhere and someone else.
What does she say she wants in life. What do you, deep down, what do you want.
When I finally come up with an answer for me, it is peace, I would like some peace. Maybe if that peace would come, I too could let it go, and I would stop hurting so much.
I know that my W has moved on, she has left me to deal with all of it in my own world, not really any help from her. So I stew in it and, like you try to deal with not letting it go.
Wish I could help man, but just sayin, your not alone.
The second part you note about kids lowering test is quite correct.
Actually thats not all bad news, as a dude that is starting to, um, thin on top, and testosterone levels being a prime driver thereoff, Im glad ive got 3 kids . Although they are as likely to make me rip my hair out sometimes anyway.
Oh crap, and now i just realised, im shifting back into the single man category. Is there nothing i can do? I guess ill just have to get used to the bruce willis special... short all over
My advice to questions like yours is allways the same, you need to decide what it is that YOU really want. It seems pretty clear from the fact that your posting the question here that you dont really want what you currently have, but unfortunately knowing you dont want something is not the same as knowing what you do want. Until you become clear on what that is, your going to sort of just be carried along with the current, Sure it might take you someplace thats bearable, it might also throw you up against the rocks. Even once you know what you do want theres no guarantee that youll get there, and you may have to go through some pretty bad storms to get there, but at least then you have a destination, and knowing the destination, helps you decide what course to set now. Along the way we may discover that the destination, the goal we have chosen is unreachable, at that point you stop, reasses things, and choose a new goal.
It may be that you decide that you want a D and to try and find a new relationship free from the baggage of this one, thats fine, sometimes it takes 5 years to decide that infidelity or more likely the healing effort afterwards was not enough. I would never blame someone that said that.
Maybe you decide that what you really want is this M at any cost, in which case you will need to find a way to let go of those images, to put them behind you.
Maybe you decide that what you want is your W and Family, but with a different Relationship dynamic, I assume that this was your goal 5 years ago, you need to standby the requirements, follow through on them, but ultimately if it turns out that this goal is unreachable, you need to set another, or you end up drifting along in the current again.
It all comes down to what is designed in the female dna that attracts them on a basic instinct level to men. Women can't explain it, they can't quantify it, and can only describe it in terms of a rush in the brain. That is because these feelings and instincts do not come from a logical part of the brain. They are basic instincts that drive all of us. They influence decisions and do not easily go away.
The logical part of our brains begin to rationalize those feelings as "meant to be" and "chemistry".
When we act in manner contrary to those instincts, i.e. "weakness" in their eyes, they will feel repulsion rather than attraction. They will tolerate this repulsion for some time until someone else ignites those instincts of attraction. The whole time, you begin to lose status and respect in every aspect of your life by your WS.
[This message edited by OnceInALifetime at 12:21 PM, February 10th (Thursday)]
In my opinion by experience and scientific research...
It goes both ways. I believe men are driven by an even more powerful drive. I think those instincts are responsible for much of the infidelity we see today. Obviously psychological issues, childhood issues etc can all play a role. But for the healthy male, that drive and attraction will be potent. Whether the male acts on those instincts is an entirely different story. I think that is what makes us evolved and separate from the primates.
I won't say what shallow properties I think many women are attracted to, but I believe the draws are very significant.
It's all too bad, but it is what it is, I guess. If you're a male and have a certain sort of "maleness," then you're holding a lot of good cards.
My wife had an affair with my piece of crap brother about 5 years ago and I just cannot seem to let it go! Here lately she has been calling it her "defining" moment and I just keep thinking that it was not your defining moment. It was the moment that you totally fucked up our life!
If by defining she means a act that describes to the world what she is really about. Then may be she is right. And it is her defining moment. And not in a good way.
[This message edited by OnceInALifetime at 1:21 PM, February 10th (Thursday)]
The former receives respect naturally, whereas the latter does not.
A Male Fairy Tale:
Once upon a time, a Prince asked a beautiful princess, "will you marry me?" The princess said "NO!" And the Prince lived happily ever after, and rode motorcycles and fucked skinny big-titted broads and hunted and raced cars and went to titty bars and dated women half his age and drank whiskey, beer, and Captain Morgan and never heard bitching and never paid child support or alimony and ate pussies and ass fucked cheerleaders and kept his house and guns and never got cheated on while he was at work and all his friends and family thought he was fuckin cool as hell and had tons of money in the bank and left the toilet seat up ..... The end
By the way, I love reading your posts, even the rambling ones.