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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men-Part 7
palerider
♂ Member
Member # 22496
Default  Posted: 7:06 PM, February 9th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Onceinalifetime,

"Nice Guy" equals beta attraction characteristics, "Bad Boy" equals alpha attraction characteristics. In a marriage or LTR you have to have both. Too much beta (attentive, steady beast of burden, not look at other women, predictable, reliable) and your wife will lose respect for you and other guys start to look attractive just because they are risk takers (willing to cheat with a man's wife). What should repel them attracts them. Not with any reason, understand, it's just what happens. Women say they want "nice guys" and they do in their rational brain, unfortunately woman make sex decisions pretty much based on hormones and body chemistry. Once pandora's box is open, all bets are off. There are actually blogs on blogspot and wordpress that are kept by women who rate and compare their husbands (beta) with the guys they meet on AM (alphas). Of course the nice guys are beta-ized by the very wives who betray them. Monogamous men have been shown to have lower testosterone levels than single men and married men with more than one woman.


Posts: 579 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Texas
jasper
♂ Member
Member # 28168
Default  Posted: 7:29 PM, February 9th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nice girls. This is an interesting topic. The only time I see this as a real negative is when the girl isn't actually nice. When her "niceness" is really just passive-aggressiveness in disguise. I prefer women who speak their minds.

As an aside, I've been accused recently, by my MC, my IC and my WW of needing to be the nice guy in social situations. Avoiding confrontation, but then causing more damage down the line. I see this as being true when it comes to my family (I don't get to see them as much as I should, so I do try to avoid confrontation once I do get to spend time with them), but I really don't see it in my every day life. I'm very comfortable with confrontation at work, and in situations where it's important.

The big exception here is with WW. Getting into it with her can be such a pain in the ass, I developed a coping strategy of just burying it, and then exploding every few months with all of the resentment that was lying under the surface.

Now that we're in R, I'm making an effort to let it all out. Should improve communication. Of course, I do have some substantial resentment about the one big issue. Trying to make sure that gets aired out too, but how many times can you say the same thing?

I don't know. I think niceness is over-rated. I don't associate it with weakness, but I do associate it witha tendency to leave things unsaid. And I have reacted pretty defensively when MC, IC and WW have accused me of "needing to be a nice guy," because I guess I do view it as a negative. And I've never considered myself to be particularly nice. I do think I'm a good and fair guy. And I do think my WW is a good woman who did a really shitty thing to me, and is working hard to own what she did and fix what she broke. Gives us something to work with. Sorry for the ramble. Just thinking out loud.


Posts: 696 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: New York
tore_up
♂ Member
Member # 9171
Default  Posted: 10:15 PM, February 9th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I am due for a friend. I have not a single guy to turn to and I could use one about now. I have been on here a long, long time as you can tell by the number on the left side. My wife had an affair with my piece of crap brother about 5 years ago and I just cannot seem to let it go! Here lately she has been calling it her "defining" moment and I just keep thinking that it was not your defining moment. It was the moment that you totally fucked up our life! I just wish she would say that, that is the worst mistake of her life insted of her defining moment! I am sorry if I am out of place here but I am at my wits end and just need to vent. It has come to the point now where I look at her and see no pasion or lust any more. I love her but that is all. I need to reach out and just yell to the world some days that she screwed me over!The images that go thru my head are sometimes just to much to take. the thought of her with my very own brother just kill me. We have been married 27 years and it will be 28 next month but I cant let go. Do I just suck it up or what? I really really could use some insight on this cause I do not have a single guy that I can come close to talking about this. I know that everyone here has been thru hell and back and that is why I am here tonight asking. Feel free to ask any damn thing ya want but I am just looking for someone to listen and give me the small piece of advice that I could use. I just need a friend. Nothing more and nothing less. Sorry but this sucks like no other and I will leave it at that. Thanks guys.


Me46bs
her46ww
4 kids
married 26 years!!!
working on 27
24/20 girls
15/14 boys
Grandson!
d-day#1 5/2/04
d-day#2 5/16/05


Posts: 124 | Registered: Dec 2005
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:23 PM, February 9th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Monogamous men have been shown to have lower testosterone levels than single men and married men with more than one woman.

Actually, it's the opposite, they decrease when a man falls in love. Testosterone levels also decrease after becoming a father.

edit:

No idea why I said opposite, meant to say that's not exactly true.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 10:26 PM, February 9th (Wednesday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7117 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 10:30 PM, February 9th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I choose to interpret palerider's post to mean that when I blow off stuff my wife wants me to do, I'm actually making myself more attractive to her. You know, dangerous. Taking risks. Actively risking life, limb and personal well-being.

That's me...living on the edge, baby.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
palerider
♂ Member
Member # 22496
Default  Posted: 11:17 PM, February 9th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No idea why I said opposite, meant to say that's not exactly true.

I guess it would have been clearer had I said "monogamously married men have lower testosterone."
The second part you note about kids lowering test is quite correct.

Here's one report on the finding in New Scientist:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2310-married-men-have-less-testosterone.html

Polygamous men do not suffer the same drop.

That's me...living on the edge, baby.

Funny ain't it? That seems to be the claim, though. It seems a little well placed uncooperation can work wonders for a guy.

[This message edited by palerider at 11:24 PM, February 9th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 579 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Texas
hurts
♂ Member
Member # 9444
Default  Posted: 11:59 PM, February 9th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tore up - man I can hear what your saying. Not sure where I would be if it had been my brother, surely not in a good place.I can understand the imiages popping back up, been suffering the same thing lately, yeah, and I am five years out also.

I don't know what to say cause I deal with the same questions myself. I wont leave, cant seem to find that road, but I do think about it more often now. But not sure that is the answer, gotta worry about the kids.

Yet in the same thought, if my W was to start saying that the A was a defining moment for her, well it would have the same effect as having the A again. Showing that her mind is not with you but somewhere and someone else.

What does she say she wants in life. What do you, deep down, what do you want.

When I finally come up with an answer for me, it is peace, I would like some peace. Maybe if that peace would come, I too could let it go, and I would stop hurting so much.

I know that my W has moved on, she has left me to deal with all of it in my own world, not really any help from her. So I stew in it and, like you try to deal with not letting it go.

Wish I could help man, but just sayin, your not alone.


Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"
Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
--- Charles M. Schulz
SO if I check my pulse, and it is not there, do I get the day off?

Posts: 8381 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: At Home
SourCherryDrops
♂ Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 3:18 AM, February 10th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The second part you note about kids lowering test is quite correct.

Actually thats not all bad news, as a dude that is starting to, um, thin on top, and testosterone levels being a prime driver thereoff, Im glad ive got 3 kids . Although they are as likely to make me rip my hair out sometimes anyway.

Oh crap, and now i just realised, im shifting back into the single man category. Is there nothing i can do? I guess ill just have to get used to the bruce willis special... short all over

@toreup,

My advice to questions like yours is allways the same, you need to decide what it is that YOU really want. It seems pretty clear from the fact that your posting the question here that you dont really want what you currently have, but unfortunately knowing you dont want something is not the same as knowing what you do want. Until you become clear on what that is, your going to sort of just be carried along with the current, Sure it might take you someplace thats bearable, it might also throw you up against the rocks. Even once you know what you do want theres no guarantee that youll get there, and you may have to go through some pretty bad storms to get there, but at least then you have a destination, and knowing the destination, helps you decide what course to set now. Along the way we may discover that the destination, the goal we have chosen is unreachable, at that point you stop, reasses things, and choose a new goal.

It may be that you decide that you want a D and to try and find a new relationship free from the baggage of this one, thats fine, sometimes it takes 5 years to decide that infidelity or more likely the healing effort afterwards was not enough. I would never blame someone that said that.

Maybe you decide that what you really want is this M at any cost, in which case you will need to find a way to let go of those images, to put them behind you.

Maybe you decide that what you want is your W and Family, but with a different Relationship dynamic, I assume that this was your goal 5 years ago, you need to standby the requirements, follow through on them, but ultimately if it turns out that this goal is unreachable, you need to set another, or you end up drifting along in the current again.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
oftenwrong
♂ Member
Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, February 10th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Palerider is dead on with his assertions.

It all comes down to what is designed in the female dna that attracts them on a basic instinct level to men. Women can't explain it, they can't quantify it, and can only describe it in terms of a rush in the brain. That is because these feelings and instincts do not come from a logical part of the brain. They are basic instincts that drive all of us. They influence decisions and do not easily go away.

The logical part of our brains begin to rationalize those feelings as "meant to be" and "chemistry".

When we act in manner contrary to those instincts, i.e. "weakness" in their eyes, they will feel repulsion rather than attraction. They will tolerate this repulsion for some time until someone else ignites those instincts of attraction. The whole time, you begin to lose status and respect in every aspect of your life by your WS.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, February 10th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oftenwrong and palerider, I think the women in NB would disagree mightily with those assertions (I won't comment ). But we are starting to tread in the dangerous generalization waters again, I'm afraid. We should change the subject before we get obliterated.

[This message edited by OnceInALifetime at 12:21 PM, February 10th (Thursday)]


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
oftenwrong
♂ Member
Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, February 10th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will preface my remarks then with:

In my opinion by experience and scientific research...

It goes both ways. I believe men are driven by an even more powerful drive. I think those instincts are responsible for much of the infidelity we see today. Obviously psychological issues, childhood issues etc can all play a role. But for the healthy male, that drive and attraction will be potent. Whether the male acts on those instincts is an entirely different story. I think that is what makes us evolved and separate from the primates.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, February 10th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree very much that for both sexes, there are certain drives that are very shallow in some sense (men attracted to looks, big time; so are women, but not so important with them.)

I won't say what shallow properties I think many women are attracted to, but I believe the draws are very significant.

It's all too bad, but it is what it is, I guess. If you're a male and have a certain sort of "maleness," then you're holding a lot of good cards.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
palerider
♂ Member
Member # 22496
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, February 10th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But you can get that "certain sort of maleness." It is obtainable if you want to get it.

Posts: 579 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Texas
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, February 10th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My wife had an affair with my piece of crap brother about 5 years ago and I just cannot seem to let it go! Here lately she has been calling it her "defining" moment and I just keep thinking that it was not your defining moment. It was the moment that you totally fucked up our life!

If by defining she means a act that describes to the world what she is really about. Then may be she is right. And it is her defining moment. And not in a good way.

Razor


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3087 | Registered: Sep 2007
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, February 10th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BTW, "shallow properties" wasn't a good choice of words. I meant just certain, specific traits that are not in themselves inherently good or bad (like appearance).

[This message edited by OnceInALifetime at 1:21 PM, February 10th (Thursday)]


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
oftenwrong
♂ Member
Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, February 10th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is important to note that you can't fake alpha male behavior. You either believe it 100% yourself or you will never have anyone else believe it. It is the difference between a natural leader and someone promoted in the military who is unqualified and tries to act like a leader.

The former receives respect naturally, whereas the latter does not.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, February 10th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In the vein of this discussion, I got this in an e-mail from a work colleague today.

A Male Fairy Tale:

Once upon a time, a Prince asked a beautiful princess, "will you marry me?" The princess said "NO!" And the Prince lived happily ever after, and rode motorcycles and fucked skinny big-titted broads and hunted and raced cars and went to titty bars and dated women half his age and drank whiskey, beer, and Captain Morgan and never heard bitching and never paid child support or alimony and ate pussies and ass fucked cheerleaders and kept his house and guns and never got cheated on while he was at work and all his friends and family thought he was fuckin cool as hell and had tons of money in the bank and left the toilet seat up ..... The end


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
oftenwrong
♂ Member
Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, February 10th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I love happy endings.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
reallyscrewedup7
♂ Member
Member # 30825
Default  Posted: 4:36 PM, February 10th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WAL,

Hilarious!

By the way, I love reading your posts, even the rambling ones.


Infidelity sucks shit

Posts: 879 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Finding my way
shyguy
♂ Member
Member # 18281
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, February 10th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WAL you made my day!


Love stinks yeah yeah(J. Geils)

Posts: 5866 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: tulsa
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