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User Topic: Betrayed Men-Part 7
victory
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Member # 31088
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm a physical type person, so it's important to me. I miss just having physical contact in a loving fashion with a woman.

I read about hysterical bonding and I would love to experience that with my wife, but who knows if we'll ever get there.


Dday- 1-26-11 (7 month PA)
BH (me)-41
WW- 37
3 little kids (6-8-10)
married 11 yrs, together 17
Divorced summer 2012 (I think)
I HAVE CUSTODY OF MY GIRLS!!!

Posts: 204 | Registered: Feb 2011
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey guys, been out of contact for awhile due to the death of my mom and the wedding of DS20.
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=394185

Wanted to ask a question and get your input. WW and I just spent four days together in a hotel in another state attending our son's wedding. It's weird because each and every time we go away together, even if it's just for a day, we get along great. But once we get home and fall back into our routine, we turn on each other and start plotting our divorce.

It's like compressing a whole month of time spent together into four days. You would think that would push us over the edge but it's actually the opposite. Maybe an exorcism of the house is needed. Anyone else ever experience something like this?


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
64fleet
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Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, victory it was important to me at one time-now I'd rather work on my stuff or watch TV.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
Mighty
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Member # 26909
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Victory
I’ve been through those phases. For me, physical was my love language. So, her betrayal of the physical was severely crippling my desire toward her. Part of my attraction for her was that “I was special in her eyes”. She burned that, and along with it how I see her now is much less desirable than before. I need sparks to feel real desire. They may or may not return. Mine has dwindled over the last 20 month post DD... I think that’s mostly to the continued TT and lies though. It’s hard to have sparks with someone who hurts you or you don’t really like how they’ve treated you... You were hurt by her, therefore it’s not uncommon to not lust after the one who hurt you.

@MrKite
I’ve experienced that to a degree. With vacations, or just getting out of the “routine” environment, it’s easier to accept and enjoy the time with my wife. I think it has a lot to do with the home simply triggering “this is how it is” and being unhappy about it. So, I prefer to see this as a good sign: I can enjoy being with my wife and visa-versa if I can shed all the reminders and get it down to her and I alone without responsibilities or expectations. When home, the house is a mess, someone has to get groceries, laundry, etc. and the failings/peeves/impressions of your spouse come into play once again. You just feel burdened and have expectations for your spouse and they are bound to let you down.

Like I said, I see this as a really good sign. If we lose expectations, chores, and so forth and just hang out, I can see how compatible we really are. So for me, I hang onto it and try and drop expectations at home too. How good a home-maker she is doesn’t really need to be a criteria point for me to want to be with her. So I appreciate her efforts now instead of just seeing her failings (you can’t fail when I expect nothing). She’s starting to do the same with me. So instead of getting frustrated when something wasn’t done, we’re both verbally appreciating each other when something does get done. No idea if your home is like that, but it is one thing working with us and keeps us from bitching and complaining as much. And as an aside, we are both more willing to pitch in knowing it will be noticed.


BS (me) 44 WS (her)43
Married 17yrs, Together 20 yrs
Three children (9-13)
D-Day #1 - 4/11/09 (me).. DD's stopped, she quit talking. Body count: 6 OM, 1 OW. (2 EA's, 1 LTPA, 1 PA, 3 "kisses").

Posts: 629 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Denver
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to admit that I view getaways from the routine with the same suspicious eye as I do Spring Break romances. They're more about place and feelings in the moment than authentic connection.

If there's already a connection, it can make for a nice recharge when things get stale, but you have to be careful about confusing temporary feeling with reality.

When you think about it, it's really the same phenomenon you see with business travel or conference "romance". Intense feelings in a strange city, connections made out of nowhere, blah, blah, blah. All a product of circumstance.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Mr. kite, maybe you got yourself a low grade carbon monoxide leak.


Hell, that's only half kidding. The exorcism thing made me think about it, since it's basically the driving force behind haunted houses.

Chronic exposure to relatively low levels of carbon monoxide may cause persistent headaches, lightheadedness, depression, confusion, memory loss, nausea and vomiting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning#Chronic_poisoning


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7110 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I prefer Mighty's explanation over WAL's "product of circumstance" and StillGoing's "carbon monoxide leak."

But I'm a thorough person and will examine all possibilities, so thanks for any possible explanations.

Saturday night as WW and I were dancing at our son's wedding, she whispered to me that we were going to make it and that everything would be fine.

This morning, back at home, she lashed out at me over something trivial with such viciousness that it wouldn't have surprised me to see her head spinning around while green bile spewed from her mouth. Truly weird!


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
64fleet
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Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 8:23 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

she sounds exactly like my WW, Kite.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kite,

Did your wife treat you that way before her A? I mean, lovey-dovey sweet and kind, then out-of-the-blue nutso screaming over trivial things? My wife did, but she's bipolar, so I know *why* she used to do it. (Not saying your wife is bipolar.)

Here's my point: my wife was mentally ill for years, but I didn't know it. What I did do was slowly fall into a pattern of not antagonizing the beast, finding instinctive methods of managing her mood swings, etc.

It was not healthy, but it became the dance of our relationship. She got to have all the angry outbursts she wanted, then apologize for them later, and I tried to keep the peace so our kids wouldn't be raised in a house full of constant screaming. I learned very early on that if I stood up for myself, fought back, called her on her irate screaming, that she'd make me pay for it later. So it wasn't worth it.

Here's the thing: that wasn't *right*. It was me giving up, protecting myself and the kids at the expense of the marriage. I went into crazy-management mode instead of stepping back and saying, "You know what? This shit is not normal. I shouldn't tolerate it...and, well, it's not the way sane people behave."

So my wife had this lurking illness that we addressed only after her A (which became my catalyst, my permission point, for being able to say, "You know what? I will *not* put up with your shit. If you poke me, I'm coming after you with all the guns blazing and I'm not stopping until you feel like such a piece of shit you can't even muster the energy to commit suicide." Any perceived disrespect, and I went from zero to Dresden firebombing. I've always been one of those sorts of guys, just not in my marriage, who could disagree amicably all day long, but the moment you cross that line into disrespect, I would absolutely eat your lunch. Disrespect was sufficient reason to terminate any relationship. Except my marriage, where I managed things instead of going to war. I thought it was because I loved my wife *so much* that I was willing to put up with shit I wouldn't take from anyone else.

And it was, to an extent. But part of it was just laziness. Part of it was not wanting to live in an armed camp. Part of it was wanting to be married more than I wanted to win (which falls under the "some things, once said, cannot ever be unsaid" coda).

But after the A, when I looked back, I realized that I had slowly let myself become more and more compromised. I was putting up with things no one in their right mind should ever have to put up with. I should have been duck taping my wife to the bumper and driving her through the front wall of a psychiatrist's office to get her into therapy with a professional. (She was in therapy, but with a quack whose med combinations actually exacerbated her condition, but that's a different story.)

I'm not standing here telling you that I did anything objectively *wrong* with how I managed the pre-A marriage. I did the best I knew how to do at the time with the information at my disposal. But the deal that I struck, trading peace for respect, had consequences. I surrendered the field on battles that, in retrospect, I probably should have fought. I participated in the process of diminishing myself.

I would never go back to that life again. The A gave me a lifetime of permission to stand up for myself, to choose a hill and wreck he marriage on it. I will not *ever* go back to allowing myself to be treated the way I was again, not in the name of anything, no matter how noble.

See, because I also could see that the problem with managing my wife's illness (even unconsciously) was part of what eroded her respect for me. Sure, all of that fighting might have made her furious. It might have ended the marriage in divorce. It might have gotten me stabbed to death in my sleep. But she would have respected me or feared me, by god.

In some ways, I made it easier for her to cheat because I was always doing a cost-benefit analysis on confrontation and let too many things slide. I let myself believe there were good reasons for irrational behavior. (At it's worst, my wife was spending the night 3-4x a week at OM's house. There was a thing with a new baby, his ex-wife was her best friend and living with him, etc. There were plenty of excuses to gaslight me with, but at the end of the day, it was hinky. And I knew it was hinky. I told her it *looked* hinky, but after a few screaming matches over it, I went back to managing the situation and deciding "she's an adult, she can do what she wants". I didn't ever insist on being treated the way she would demand I treat her if the shoe was on the other foot.)

Bottom line here: I participated in a dance that allowed my wife to treat me disrespectfully. That was our relationship. I wouldn't change how I handled it, because the way I did handle it had a dignity and integrity to it that I wouldn't give back. But I don't do that dance anymore.

That thing with your wife going all Linda Blair on you over stupid, minor shit? Not in my house. Not anymore. That sort of disrespect is a lunch-eating offense. (Note: not that this is a huge issue for us now. Meds and post-A clarity have pretty much put a stop to that sort of thing now that the fog has cleared, the marital re-writing unwritten, etc.)

So here's my question to you: what is it about your dance that leads your wife to believe that she can go nuts on you and you'll just sit back there and take it? That she can cover it up with a after-the-damage-is-done apology and expect you to just let it go? Why do you expect yourself to let it go? To tolerate what you wouldn't tolerate from anyone else in your life?

Are you a good guy? Do you not want to be the overbearing "that guy" who screams at his wife? Do you not want to be "controlling guy"? What image of manhood do you have inside your mind that you're reacting against? Or what image of manhood are you emulating that has led you down this path?

(Me? I was largely emulating my dad, of course. My dad is a minister. He has a kind and gentle spirit, but he's also something of an authoritarian. I wanted to emulate the kind, gentle dad, while rejecting the authoritarian black-and-white dad. Which is a path that I can 100% guarantee you would have been completely effective if I'd married my mom. Unfortunately, the one woman I was perfectly designed by genetic aptitude and socialization to marry was already taken, plus she was too old for me, and that sort of thing is illegal in this country anyway.)

Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe everyone in your life goes nuts on you and you just take it. But I'm guessing not. Only your wife gets that privilege.

Why?

What is it about your wife that you're willing to sacrifice your soul to not lose her?

It's wrong. That's wrong. The dance is wrong.

So it's time to change the music. Pick a new dance. Pick a new dance that is completely designed to make the dance she's doing look stupid, feel stupid, be publicly embarrassing when viewed by the audience watching you on the dance floor.

I can tell you this: it starts with boundaries. We teach people how to treat us, even our wives. And sometimes the lessons start with eating their lunch.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 10:50 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WAL:

Did your wife treat you that way before her A?

She was always real quiet but would fly off the handle on occasion. Passive/aggressive would be the clinical term. But during the beginning of her A's the psycho behavior increased.

One time, while she was banging other guys, she told me to see a shrink and get on meds or she would divorce me. Why? Because I questioned what she was up to once too often. I dutifully went and took AD meds for a few months.

When she and DS, who had just turned 3, moved to Maryland I stayed in California to sell the house. She called me and said she had bought us a new house. I asked her why she didn't inform me before making a major purchase like that. Her answer was "If you don't like it, you can stay out there" and hung up on me.

I treated her the same way you described, letting things go that I never would have let anyone else get away with. I'm guessing that she saw me as a wimpy husband. Gee I wonder why? She must think: "scream and yell, lie, screw around, and show zero respect for my husband who does absolutely nothing except talk to me about it. I can get away with anything and there are no consequences."

I should have been duck taping my wife to the bumper and driving her through the front wall of a psychiatrist's office to get her into therapy with a professional.

I participated in the process of diminishing myself.

And all the while empowering their crazy behavior.

I let myself believe there were good reasons for irrational behavior.

I came up with the similar excuses for her; a new baby, her mother just died, it's that time of the month again, she had a bad day at work, I'm an ass****, she's an ex-addict so what did you expect, etc.

So here's my question to you: what is it about your dance that leads your wife to believe that she can go nuts on you and you'll just sit back there and take it? That she can cover it up with a after-the-damage-is-done apology and expect you to just let it go? Why do you expect yourself to let it go? To tolerate what you wouldn't tolerate from anyone else in your life?

I don't take it any longer. But I mostly deal with it in a calm voice. For example, "Why did you just say that? It's irrational, illogical, and rude?" Apparently she takes that as a sign of weakness. What should I do instead, throw things or punch my fist through the wall?

Last month she screamed at me that I was "too chicken" to ever divorce her. She quickly backtracked with an apology but it revealed her mindset.

Are you a good guy? Do you not want to be the overbearing "that guy" who screams at his wife? Do you not want to be "controlling guy"? What image of manhood do you have inside your mind that you're reacting against? Or what image of manhood are you emulating that has led you down this path?

Am I a good guy? Yeah, that's probably an inner belief of mine. I look like a crazy biker(long-hair, beard)according to WW. I could do great harm to her with little effort but never have and never will. Some take gentleness as a sign of weakness.

No, I don't believe in controlling anyone. My image of manhood is really screwed up though from the way I was raised(never take any crap)-- on the one hand and my Christian beliefs(turn the other cheek)--on the other. Who I am lies somewhere in between.

Maybe everyone in your life goes nuts on you and you just take it.

She's the only one who disrespects me on a regular basis.

Only your wife gets that privilege. Why?

So I could raise my only child. The thing is, he's 20 now, married and moved on with his life. Now it's just a matter of disengaging from a 29 year relationship.

She'll go to a shrink for a few months. She's presently on Prozac and reading books about altering her behavior. None of it is helping but a part of me is hoping there'll be a miraculous change. As I type this it all seems insane to expect anything else from her after all these years.

What is it about your wife that you're willing to sacrifice your soul to not lose her?

Nah, she'll never have my soul. She may however kill me slowly from the stress.

The dance is wrong

You got that right. Here's her dance--the closer you come to me, the further I'll move away from you. And the more you ignore me, the more affectionate with you I'll become. Then the whole sick cycle begins again.

Pick a new dance

Or maybe a new partner.

I'm not afraid to be alone. Heck, I have a PHD in being alone. All these years of being married to WW has taught me at least that much. I'm self-analyzing that my self-esteem is practically on life-support and I've become emotionally paralyzed into playing the role of the dutiful, mild-mannered husband.

It's an unhealthy relationship for both of us. Maybe a restraining order and divorce papers would cause her to reevaluate me and treat me differently but I doubt it.

At the end of the day it's my fault for allowing myself to be demeaned and wimpified by this woman. What I need to find out soon is if there's enough testosterone left in me to kick her to the curb. Stay tuned...


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 6:04 AM, February 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your ex-addict comment intrigues me. It's never a good idea to toss around psych labels based on what we read about people on a message board, but whenever I hear ex-addict with a WW, I'm like contractually obligated to ask if you've ever looked into borderline personality disorder?

Things like buying the house, the push/pull model of intimacy, the explosive/apologetic behavior...those are all typical borderline features.

(The bad news is that if borderline does map to your situation, I don't have any advice for you. The only good advice I've ever heard for borderline relationship partners is "Run like hell".)


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, February 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgot to throw anorexia/bulimia into the mix for which she was hospitalized for 31 days. On the following list of symptoms for 'Borderline personality disorder' is poor self-image. Hmm...

The disorder typically involves unusual levels of instability in mood; black and white thinking, or splitting; the disorder often manifests itself in idealization and devaluation episodes, as well as chaotic and unstable interpersonal relationships, self-image, identity, and behavior; as well as a disturbance in the individual's sense of self. In extreme cases, this disturbance in the sense of self can lead to periods of dissociation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
old dipstick
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Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, February 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mr. Kite.

While reading this page I was just getting ready to mention Boardedline Personality Disorder, but WAL beat me to it. I could PM you a useful site if you are interested. BPD can be dealt with, but it is not easy. Like everything in life, all the baggage from the A behavior gets in the way.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, February 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, please pm me any link you have on this subject. It is most appreciated.

Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
victory
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Member # 31088
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, February 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Guys, I need to ask this.

I'm in the position of having temporary custody of my 3 little girls. On DDay, I changed my work schedule so now i get up at 5 am and get home by 5 so i can cook dinner and be in a position to show everyone I can take care of my children.

I dropped my Wed night poker game and Tuesday night softball committments. Mainly because I want to focus on my girls.

Is that bad? 180 says to focus on doing things I like and enjoy. I like and enjoy them both. Do yall think that looks bad for someone who's seeking permamnet custody of his children?


Dday- 1-26-11 (7 month PA)
BH (me)-41
WW- 37
3 little kids (6-8-10)
married 11 yrs, together 17
Divorced summer 2012 (I think)
I HAVE CUSTODY OF MY GIRLS!!!

Posts: 204 | Registered: Feb 2011
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, February 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Victory: No, it seems like you are doing exactly the right things. Is there anything you enjoy more than spending time with your little girls? If not, there's your answer.

Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, February 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What I did do was slowly fall into a pattern of not antagonizing the beast, finding instinctive methods of managing her mood swings, etc.

It was not healthy, but it became the dance of our relationship... (et al)

Jesus, WAL. That whole thing sounds like the last 18 years of my life.

She's on meds now. Doc said it's likely she will be on AD's for the rest of her life.

edit:

Got a question. I got to that same point with FWW and no longer being willing to put up with absurd shit for the sake of being married to her. It has been so long though I am questioning now whether or not I am calling her on everything that I ought to be.

At the end of the day I just try to go with "Did she just do something to make me feel bad/guilty/stupid" and go after it if she did, but I keep questioning my perception on what is and isn't acceptable and if I just have developed a complete mental block against the acceptability of certain behaviors. Especially since it seems like things have been going really well in that camp for awhile now.

Maybe I just been on guard so fucking long that no immediate threat is just worse. I dunno. Confused about all this shit still.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 9:41 AM, February 15th (Tuesday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7110 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
lostcause111
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Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, February 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wal post is on point for sure.

My dad was a yeller. I never wanted yelling in my future.

Then came my selfish wife. I would tolerate BS to keep the peace.

After d-day speaking to a freind he said "i have seen your wife be shitty for years".

Your wife should be your friend right? If my friends had done 1/10th of the stuff my wife did they would not be a friend.

After d-day I woke up.

Now in the beginning I started reading about borderlines because she has traits. I tried the listen and dont react. That went well. LOL

It was when I became a bull. I will blow up over the most minor BS she starts. Why. keeping the peace is BULLSHIT when you are the only one peaceful.

And the other tip I will blow out of the water. Wait till you are out of public and the kids are not around.

My children would only see me taking a beating and what am I teaching them than? Its OK to beat up men. It is OK to act a fool anywhere. Where was keeping the M together in that state any good for them? That is where I finally understood when I never did before that D can in situations like mine be GOOD for the kids because worse case they would get half time BS free with me.

And the public thing I finally dont give a fuck what the "public" thinks.

When I delayed I would forget or be calmed down naturally IE I lost the moment I should have reacted.

I realized after about a year after d-day I was not doing myself, my wife, or my children the way I was acting.

Me much like WALS IMHO only issue in the A is we enabled it by being captain nice guy. Now with some people and my rationale mind knows this should be fine. With others being like this is a signed invitation to be walked on.

Do I want my M to end? No I like having my children full time.

Am I willing to take BS for the noble "good". FUCK NO! I and the children are worth much more than that.

So now I think of myself as the state of California.

Warm sunshine happy. But my flag says dont tread on me.... well you better believe it.

[This message edited by lostcause111 at 12:38 PM, February 15th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 934 | Registered: Apr 2008
Mighty
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Default  Posted: 4:36 PM, February 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I too was the nice guy, a doormat, etc. There is a book called “No More Mr. Nice Guy” I used in my recovery.

It is difficult to figure out how to react to the crazy. Probably your best weapon is really the only control you have in any relationship: The power to end it. Detach, detach, detach. That’s her power over you, she really doesn’t believe you’ll ever have the balls to leave. You need to get strong enough you could. So the other part you have complete control over: Yourself.

Work on you, start seeing things in a new light, and you’ll want to change you: You will hate what you let yourself become. You won’t accept this marriage. It will piss you off you allowed yourself to except it and tolerate being crapped all over just so you wouldn’t hurt her feelings. Basically, the old you defined your value in life by how she viewed you. Think about it... a lot of what you did was probably trying to get her to treat you a certain way or manipulate her. Thanks to the affairs, I could see that absolute failure of that mindset and started looking internally for my own self-esteem. Find it, build it, and not only will you be more confident with yourself, she’ll find you more attractive and valuable.

Take this another step: You have another mental weapon if you are dealing with a TT’ing unremorseful wife who still feels that she’s not entirely responsible for her own actions... Someone or something else made her do it. It’s my mask theory. What she is doing is trying to define herself through the reflection in your eyes through lies and manipulations; she presents a mask. Instead of looking inward for that self-esteem, she is still trying to get that validation from you and others so she manipulates the information you get to base this on. This is why she lies and omits: She’s trying to guarantee you have only the information that will allow you to reach her conclusions she wants. “I didn’t want to hurt you anymore” is code for “I didn’t want you to see me that way or see me any worse”. So what happens if she can see and feel that you truly believe she’s a monster and a horrible person at her core through actions and words? ... Answer: She will adopt your perspective. That same damage that allowed the OM to control her thoughts and actions, you have too... She just gives it away because she’s too weak to define herself.

Until she is strong enough that she really rejects herself and who she has become by looking inward for solutions and retrospect, she’s given me control of who she sees in the mirror. That vision isn’t pretty a lot of the time. (Hence my need to get her out of the house so she gets to see her “vacation, happy wife” wife reflection from time to time).

The problem I still face is that she can see the horrible side of herself through my eyes and hates it. Yet she’s still too weak to really look deep. So, I just see the mask still (a manipulation of information so she looks “good”). She hasn’t provided me with enough to really know who’s behind that mask or open up. So, until she can put the mask away, come clean, and start really telling me her thoughts... I can’t change how I look at her.

Hopefully, some of this makes sense. I figure there are only three real outcomes:

1. She’ll tire of feeling like a piece of crap and look inward to find herself. At which point she’ll just open up and I can finally find piece knowing I’m no longer talking to the mask, but someone instead who talks of “the old her” with the spite and venom of something she hates.

2. I’ll get hoodwinked into believing she’s looked inward and has made the changes. Only to discover sometime down the road I just mistook her mask for reality while she withheld all this stuff so I wouldn’t think ill of her. That’s gonna lead her to feel resentments that at some point she’s gonna lash out.... and I subscribe to WAL’s idea that all affairs are revenge affairs. She’ll get back at me for some of those resentments.

3. I’ll finally lose it by finally concluding she will not change, this outside validation is just who she is, and decide I’ll take my odds are poor I’ll ever feel secure in this marriage and hate the limbo of “waiting” for her to stray again. Papers will be filed and I’ll try to remain friends.


BS (me) 44 WS (her)43
Married 17yrs, Together 20 yrs
Three children (9-13)
D-Day #1 - 4/11/09 (me).. DD's stopped, she quit talking. Body count: 6 OM, 1 OW. (2 EA's, 1 LTPA, 1 PA, 3 "kisses").

Posts: 629 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Denver
64fleet
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Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, February 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does v-day piss any of you guys off?

WW gave me a card-I mean, we can't break up w/o lawyers, a custody battle, separation of assets, her turning the kids against me, child support-why give me a card?

That "Be my Valentine" shit went out the window when I heard her telling OMM how bad she wanted to fuck him again.

Or am I wrong? Been wrong before, many times...


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
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