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User Topic: Betrayed Men-Part 7
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, February 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It used to, 64. Then again, pretty much every holiday pissed me off, including my own b-day. (For three straight years, my blow-out-the-candle wish was finding a way to get the fuck out.)

Now, I look forward to it...at least, you know, to the extent that most guys ever look forward to V-Day. I mean, I don't particularly dig the holiday, but I dig the look in my wife's eyes when she finds the gifts/candy I've picked out for her. I dig letting her know that she's special to me.

But I remember being where you're at, for sure. I'm sorry your wife is such a dumb bitch. You deserve better than she's ever been able to give you.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 5:25 PM, February 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wanted to add: my wife was telling me last night as we talked before bed that she always feels bad for me on V-Day, because it's such a chick holiday. There aren't any "set" things for a woman to do for a guy. There's no script. It really is a holiday designed for men to show attention to women rather than any sort of mutual display.

Here's the thing, though: she got me a couple of nice cards, some candy she knows I like, some coffee she knows I like. (We don't make a big deal out of V-Day. It's cards/candy/stuffed animals, nothing pricey.)

What's important here is that each and every one of the little things she got me were based on her knowledge of me. Things she knew from spending time with me that I enjoy. Nothing huge. Nothing unique or earth-shatteringly awesome, but each thing was picked out with me in mind. A little thing like a bag of Starbucks coffee was like a seven dollar sack full of hugs, an acknowledgement that she sees me, she knows me, she knows what I like.

Stuff she could have picked up at the grocery store the other 364 days of the year, right? But made special because of the day, because it was visible proof that she knows me, she cares about me, she thinks about me as a distinct and specific person.

My wife said she felt bad because there wasn't anything special.

But it was all special to me, because no one else in the entire world would have been able to so perfectly put together a list of little, everyday things that I like.

It was an enormous expression of the intimacy we share and the knowledge we've developed of one another over the years.

So, yeah, I can dig V-Day like that.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
64fleet
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Default  Posted: 7:38 PM, February 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I did get some Reese's from her-I'll eat those.

My bday saddens me, my mom died on my 30th.

Thanksgiving is dday.

yeah, I do hate them all, WAL.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
Mr. Kite
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Default  Posted: 8:26 PM, February 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does v-day piss any of you guys off?

Nah, we totally ignore it. It's never mentioned by either of us. We don't ever mention anniversaries either.

Mighty: Will order 'No More Mr. Nice Guy.' Can't wait to see her expression when the credit card bill shows up. "What's this then, eh?"

Someone or something else made her do it.

That's her mantra for everything. Her mind is covered by a suit of armor and she sees life through the little slits in the part that covers her head. Anyone who dares expose her for who she is either gets ignored or has her rage directed at them.

The A's must have done huge damage to her self-constructed image which then required extra steel to be added to the armor.

She still lies. At least that's what my gut tells me.I know she's lying because her mouth is moving. I guarantee there were more than two men she was screwing around with but for her to come clean once and for all might mean the destruction of her ego. WW will never allow that to happen.

At our son's wedding Saturday night, I noticed her off in the distance verbally abusing the DJ. Her arms were moving frantically and when I got close I noticed her face was reddened from yelling. The DJ was a screw-up but that was uncalled for. She seemed proud of herself. Keep in mind that she doesn't drink booze so there was no excuse.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
Ethelred
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Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, February 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been enjoying the time with my children lately while pretty much ignoring my WW. She only wants a relationship on her terms. Well, she can f*ck herself.

My only interest in reconciling is because it would be inspiring to our kids and memories (delusions?) about what we once had. Otherwise I would rather be living alone right now. WW is like a renter who you have given notice to but who is difficult to evict.

WW seems to have some strange confidence that she has some power over me. Well, I guess her tits do have a certain kind of power. But, I am more concerned about her using the kids against me. Maybe she has a voodoo doll somewhere?

Note to self - put myself first.

Sorry for rambling.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Married: almost 20 years
D-Day: 2009 (cybersex for over 5 years, associated EAs); in the dark about PAs, no full disclosure.

Posts: 271 | Registered: Mar 2009
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, February 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At our son's wedding Saturday night, I noticed her off in the distance verbally abusing the DJ. Her arms were moving frantically and when I got close I noticed her face was reddened from yelling. The DJ was a screw-up but that was uncalled for. She seemed proud of herself. Keep in mind that she doesn't drink booze so there was no excuse.

Yeah, that's not borderline at all. I may have to change my rule about not diagnosing people over the internet.

Borderline thought process: The attention isn't on me? Oh, it will be. Yes, it will.

*makes a big scene*


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Mr. Kite
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Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, February 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WW is like a renter who you have given notice to but who is difficult to evict.

You just made it to the 'SI quote-Vol 12' thread.
http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=246918&AP=501&HL=

WAL: I could relate many other examples of that. Like the time she tore into the pastor's wife in front of her daughters, or the several holes in the kitchen tiles from throwing dishes, or the time she grabbed me by the shirt and slammed me into the kitchen sink, etc. etc. yada yada...

I'm firmly convinced that each time she took off her clothes and climbed into bed with another man, while he was thrusting into her she was thinking "this will teach Mr. Kite to piss me off." Chilling!!!


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
SourCherryDrops
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Default  Posted: 3:02 AM, February 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Victory,

What is more important to you? the poker nights, the sports, or your kids? ...ok thats a rhetorical question, no need to answer, your actions have already shown your answer.

But what id like to point out is that at the moment spending time with your DD's is doing stuff for you. In fact it could be considered doing the most important thing possible for you.

Your establishing a precedent, your right, your ability to look after the kids without further assistance from your WW. Any BH that can get full custody, or even main custody should consider themselves lucky in my book.

Sure once things have settled down you may need to focus some energy on re-inforcing yourself as an individual, not just as the parent to your DD's.


Well lads, VDay went by, and you know what, the text message from my DD wishing me a happy VDay was the best present i could have wished for. Sometimes kids know just the right thing to say... For me the holidays have lost a lot of their special meaning, because the meaning was tied up with my image of my life, my family, my wife. It will take a while for me to build a new view, a new special meaning for them, untill then they are probably just going to be rather bland.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
OnceInALifetime
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Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, February 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know she's lying because her mouth is moving.

I must remember that one.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
countryboy
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Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, February 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I have you all beat on v-day gifts from my WW.

First a card that said she loved me.
Then box of candy that I like.

And then she gave me D-Day #3 2-14-11. OM#3 some young punk living in a travel trailer in a camp ground.


BS- me
WS- her
M- 18 years
DD1- 7/04
DD2- 3/10
DD3- 2/11

Posts: 38 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Texas
TryingMyHardest
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Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, February 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mr. Kite, where can I sign up for your newsletter?

/Maybe I'm wrong
//But maybe I'm right...


Married 2006
2 kids, 4yo
D-Day 1: December 30th 2009
D-Day 2: 2/1/11
D-day 3: 2/13/11
D-Day 4: 3/28/11
WW Drug addict for 2 years, Morphine, Fentanyl, Xanax, clean since June '09
5 OM, about 20 seperate sexual encounters

Posts: 215 | Registered: Jan 2010
Mr. Kite
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Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, February 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mr. Kite, where can I sign up for your newsletter?

I might start one at the loony bin WW will eventually send me to if this keeps up.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
oftenwrong
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Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, February 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The berating spouse has a special way of immasculating even the strongest of men.

Given enough time, even a mountain can be worn down through light and steady pressure.

I found that most hellions like this wear on you over a period of years. They just don't one day decide to disrespect you in some terrible manner. It is a slow, death by attrition routine where they ramp up their criticism and disrespect ever so slightly as each month passes.

Pretty soon, you are the whipping boy for every negative vibe and energy eminating from them. It is emotional abuse, plain and simple.

Only when we remove ourselves from the situation do we ask, "how the hell did I ever let myself get to this point!?"

The trick is, to never let the person cross a respect line from day one. Each day they inch the bar closer and closer to full disrespect, the closer your relationship will move to it's demise.

A few other guys on here preach on and on about the alpha persona. I buy in to it whole heartedly. In my experience, women fuck the alpha, and shit on the beta. The beta is useful for taking care of their offspring, kicking and abusing emotinoally, and paying the mortgage.

I will NEVER ever find myself in a position like that again.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 8:55 PM, February 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, I hear what you're saying about the alpha male thing, and I think many BH's move in that direction after the A, but it isn't like it affair-proofs you or your relationship, either.

You know what fucked-in-the-head women call a man who sets boundaries, demands (deserved and appropriate) respect, defends himself from her craziness, doesn't tolerate her belligerence and ranting, etc.?

Emotionally unavailable and/or emotionally abusive.

Why? Because he won't play the game by her rules. He won't follow the script for him that she has written in her head.

And so he's going to be made to pay the price for it, alpha, beta or any other Greek letter you want to put out there.

This is, once again, why infidelity is *always* about the broken WS. It doesn't matter "how" you are, you're going to pay for it eventually with the appropriate justifications to match.

So you've really got two choices:

1. Make sure you always and without fail meet the expectations placed upon you, or

2. Realize that you only control yourself. Make yourself into the sort of person you like to be, and if that's not good enough for her or she has some internal dysfunction that settles her astride a herd of dicks to solve her internal issues, trust yourself enough to not be afraid to tell her to fuck off.

But understand that even post-A, your actions have consequences. You'll be held to account for all the ways you choose to protect yourself.

Don't wear your wedding ring? You'll pay.
Don't say I love you enough? Pay.
Keep the most tender parts of your heart guarded? Pay, pay and pay again.

Now you're in the, "I've shown you what'll happen if you don't do what I tell you. Do you want to make me do that again?" zone. And the "We're going to have the relationship I always wanted now, so just get used to it" zone. Now that we've gotten through this, we're going to have the BEST MARRIAGE EVAR!!! and don't you dare think otherwise.

And if you don't do that, then I'll just switch my complaining/justification/resentment tactics to reflect that. I shouldn't have to serve life sentence for a few mistakes, but you will either comply with my demands or YOU will, motherfucker.

Because we're not real. We're roles that we've been given to play. We're masturbation fantasies from the pages of Tiger Beat.

This is in the absence of remorse, you understand. If nothing changes, then nothing changes, get it? You can make yourself as alpha as you want, but all it really does is guard your heart. Until your WW comes to view you as a real person whom she must come to understand and relate to (as in "build a relationship with"), you're still at just as much risk as before as long as you stay in the relationship.

You'll either be a "good guy" doormat beta or an unemotionally unavailable, abusive asshole. Either one "deserves" being cheated on in the wayward mindset.

This isn't to discourage anyone from embracing what he needs or figuring out how he should change in order to heal. Just understand that you're healing yourself and setting terms for the sort of relationship you want to have. If she doesn't like it, you're still going to be made to pay for it if she's still in the wayward/entitlement mindset.

If you're completely committed, you run the risk of being taken for granted. If you're guarding your heart, then you run the risk of being devalued or marginalized because you won't go all in.

You don't have any control over how she's going to perceive you. That's what I'm saying. All you can do is construct yourself in such a way that it makes you happy, and fuck her if she can't take a joke. Sometimes you just have to realize that what you want and what she wants in a relationship no longer mesh. (Of course, you'll be blamed for that, too, because we all know that women know how to conduct relationships and men are relationship idiots, right?[1] )

I'm not even convinced that the alpha/beta distinction has any predictably reliable results in the dating world. You meet a woman who has just come out of a relationship with an abusive man, an emotionally unavailable one or maybe had a controlling father, chances are she's actively looking for a beta. She wants safety, security and emotional open-ness. Meet a woman who is coming out of a relationship with a beta who bored her to death, she might be looking for an alpha. I truly believe that whether a woman is looking for an alpha or a beta is just as variable as men looking for a blonde or a redhead. We might have our "type" preference, but if you're a redhead guy and meet a blonde who is put together right and pushes all the right buttons, you find yourself becoming a blonde guy pretty darned fast.

Just be who you are. Be who you want to be. Be someone you like. That's it. It's all that matters, 'cuz if you fuck that relationship up, all the other relationships in your life are doomed from the get-go anyway.


1. Don't even get me started on this topic. Srsly. Men are just as relationship adept as a gender as women are. We just don't always want the same things. Doesn't make those wants wrong, just different. Telling us that it's wrong because it's different than what women/the arbiters of relationship truth want is a cop out. Of course, it's also one of those cultural assumptions that's been around for so long it's become "truth".

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 8:59 PM, February 16th (Wednesday)]


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
oftenwrong
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Default  Posted: 9:39 PM, February 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Being alpha has nothing to do with being closed off emotionally. It is about sending the message that you can and will drop them at any sign of being fucked with.

She is showing you respect because she now knows there are consequences to her actions and you will back up your words with actions.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 10:11 PM, February 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I will drop you like a hot rock if you disappoint me or fail to treat me the way I demand to be treated" is not a recipe for healthy emotional intimacy.

I'd also argue that it's the male version of the psychotic female behavior we're talking about reacting against.

There's a difference between actions having consequences and holding the threat of abandonment over someone's head. That's demanding someone else live by *your* script instead of you living by theirs...which puts you in exactly the same position as before, only you're the one being the neurotic asshole this time.

That's also exactly why I don't put much stock in the alpha/beta distinction. If it's not an authentic transformation arising from changes within yourself, it's just a protective mechanism. It's a role being played with the intent of achieving a desired end.

And the problem, inevitably, with playing roles is we have to wall our true self off from people so they don't touch it. Which is fine, but it's also lonely.

That decision has consequences. When you choose to be an alpha, you close off certain outcomes. Maybe you didn't want some of those outcomes, and that's fine, but you owe it to yourself to know what your most likely outcomes become when you make certain sets of decisions.

Look, I've been one of the hugest proponents of guys developing boundaries and doing whatever the hell they need to heal, but what I'm also saying is that's not a carte blanche to run wild and think our actions/decisions don't have consequences.

Note, however, that I'm not saying that being an alpha = emotionally closed off. I'm saying that you're more likely to get accused of that if you're an alpha *and* you've got a fucked-in-the-head WW or wannabe-WW. But like all other entitlement nutteries leveled by people trying to justify and blameshift affairs, rational and accurate depictions of reality don't necessarily apply. Accusations don't make it true.

But let's clarify here: are you suggesting that men who self-identify as betas don't follow up on their promises? That they don't set boundaries and enforce consequences? They that don't back up their words with actions?

If so, I think you've misinterpreted the source material. The alpha/beta source material I've read (that wasn't the misconstrued "how to get laid when you want by anyone you want" internet crap) doesn't place value judgments on either type. In fact, they identify the distinctions not as a dichotomy, but points along a spectrum. (That is, some men are alphas in the boardroom and the bedroom, but they're also betas in the kitchen. And every possible variation in between.)


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
OnceInALifetime
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Default  Posted: 10:28 PM, February 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WAL, great posts.

Seems that most of us BH consider ourselves beta types, no? Maybe the alphas wouldn't come near SI with a 20 foot pole? Here's my take on alpha/beta, from the perspective of a beta among betas.

Aplha: has confidence oozing out of his pores, is driven, and is therefore a natural leader. Doesn't mean he comes off as an arrogant prick, but clearly this is a man who is used to winning. Many women cannot resist this. I spend (way too much) time in New Beginnings, one of the few guys who posts there. There have been a good number of threads about how appealing the man-who-knows-what-he-wants-and-goes-for-it is. On the list of most desirable traits in men, self-confidence is almost always #1 or #2. The man who takes initiative, the man's man, is all the rage. I'll concede that a man with low self-esteem is not going to be a great catch, but I think it goes beyond that. I submit there's an almost animal-like attraction to the alpha. I wonder if it has something to do with feeling protected, and also feeling prized by the leader of the pack.

Beta: quieter, less driven "nice guys." I deliberately say "nice guy" because that label has gotten so much attention. Yes, some of the Nice Guy syndrome is real, a problem with men who allow themselves to be doormats, or, in other cases, men who pretend to be nice but in fact are jerks when you get to know them. But I also believe that some of the complaints from "nice guys" are warranted; they don't have the alpha traits, and many women therefore find them second class. Maybe this is a perspective that is heightened in BH's.

I've come to accept that it is what it is. I could get angry at what I see as this shallow attraction to the alpha male, but who am I to talk, when physical beauty rates so high on my list?

I'm not going to try and morph into an alpha. The only way I could approximate it is through anger, the whole "don't give a damn" attitude and the fake confidence that results from it. I'd rather stay single than use that lure as the basis for a relationship.

No, I'll be myself, and trust that there are women out there who, like me, just want to drive in the slow lane, and share the wheel.

[This message edited by OnceInALifetime at 10:46 PM, February 16th (Wednesday)]


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
oftenwrong
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Default  Posted: 10:43 PM, February 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think everyone has to find their own path and what works for them.

For me personally, for my past relationships, I always was the "provider", the dependable one, the one who fixes porblems, and the one who tried to take care of everything.

The idea of me having a true partner was so alien to me. I quickly realized I was making myself a servant all because I did not demand the best out of my partner for myself. It goes both ways. She also must get my very best towards her in all things.

The idea of the neaderthal "alpha" scoring with women and bench pressing 300 lbs is not what I am referring to.

It is a man 100% confident in him self, his qualities, and his stock. He believes that he should receive as good as he gives to his partner.

And if a women will treat this gift with disrespect, dishonesty and anger, she can clean up her act or leave.

It does not mean I am stubborn, pig headed, sexist or closed off. It is about reinforcing the idea that you aren't just another nameless man in a sea of penises for your mate to choose from.

If being yourself means the exclusion of confidence and the idea that you do not have great intrinsic value, (reserved for those worthy of such value) I'm not sure what to say to that.

[This message edited by oftenwrong at 10:46 PM, February 16th (Wednesday)]


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 11:05 PM, February 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think you're tracking where I'm going, OIAL. My ultimate point is that when it comes to infidelity, there isn't a damned difference between an alpha and a beta. Whichever you are "naturally" is going to have criticisms leveled against it.

(Same in the dating world, honestly. Alphas will tend to get criticized as self-absorbed, emotionally unavailable assholes, while betas will be labeled as weak, unwilling to take chances, blah, blah. It's all bullshit. When people reject potential partners, they need a reason to justify their choice, so they over-magnify certain traits to condemn them with. We all do it. For some reason, people are just fundamentally uncomfortable saying something like, "You seem like an okay person, just not really my thing." Maybe it's a reaction to disappointed hopes or a way to feel like we haven't wasted our time with something that didn't work out, so we have to find fault. Make some uncovered lack in them the reason we didn't see right away that they weren't our type.)

But, look, all I'm trying to get at really is just that being an alpha or a beta does.not.matter. Alphas find love. So do betas. Probably in exactly equal measures. Both find and make long-lasting lifetime connections. One is not inherently more attractive or attractable than the other (except to people who prefer the alpha or beta mold).

But alphas are cheated on just as much as betas. They just hear a different set of blameshifting justifications. Being an alpha doesn't mitigate the chance that you'll be cheated on, because you aren't the one making that choice. It's all on your wayward partner.

If the alpha had been a beta, it wouldn't have stopped his bitch wife from sleeping around. That's what I'm saying. Now, it might mean that his wife might not have married him in the first place, but she didn't *really* cheat on him because he was an alpha and she deep-down really wanted a beta.

The risk we run in telling ourselves that if we become more like an alpha is that we give ourselves a false sense of confidence that we're insulating ourselves from emotional harm. We're not. But even more insidiously than that, by looking at ourselves as flawed because we're an alpha (or a beta), we're subtly participating in the lie that it was some flaw or lack in ourselves that made our spouse's infidelity inevitable.

That's the lie. That's why this issue is both dangerous and meaningless.

Be you. That's it. Don't try to be something else that you think is more attractive, more secure, more whatever. Just be you. There are more than enough chicks and enough variation in the world that you're not going to lack for viable partners. You may miss out on some chicks who really want (or believe they want) an alpha, but if that's true, you were fundamentally incompatible anyway. After getting into her pants a few times, you'd realize that the effort of trying to be someone who you are not is more exhausting than the quality of the tail warrants.

(Aside: and honestly, the only time I've really ever seen guys wrestling hard with this sort of self-identity question is when we're deeply interested in attracting a specific woman who we think wants a beta when we know we're an alpha. Or vice versa. Reminds me of that old joke: no matter how hot you think a woman is, there's some guy out there who's sick of her shit. Worth remembering. Don't compromise yourself for anyone, because you'll regret it eventually.)

For the record: I self-identify somewhat as a beta, but I've also spent my entire life being told I was a natural leader, confident-bordering on-arrogant, decisive, etc. I get promoted quickly, paid well, am confident in my skills and frequently find myself groomed for management positions I do no want.

Am I an alpha? Don't know. Don't care. Am I a nice guy? I like to think so. Am I a beta? I can see some of those characteristics in me. Don't care.

I know who I am. I like me. There are things about me I don't like so much. I don't work out. I don't exercise. I smoke too much. I wish I spent more time with my kids. I wish I worked a job I loved instead of one that pays me better than what I would love to do. I wish I was more involved in my community in ways I felt like made a difference. I wish I had more of the confidence people ascribe to me in more situations. I wish I had the desire to dress better and cut my hair more often. I wish I was more motivated with my creative work.

Some of those things I work on. Some of them I don't really give a shit about right now. Some are tabled for later discussion.

Bottom line: I like me. I'm not changing for anyone but me, and maybe God when he hits me over the head with a Hammer of Thor and tells me I need to straighten some shit out. (Sometimes not. We argue, he and I. Go round and round.)

At the end of the day, my approval is all that matters.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 11:10 PM, February 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is a man 100% confident in him self, his qualities, and his stock. He believes that he should receive as good as he gives to his partner.

And if a women will treat this gift with disrespect, dishonesty and anger, she can clean up her act or leave.

See, given this, I don't think we actually disagree at all, oftenwrong. I think we're saying exactly the same thing and just getting hung up on the terminology.

I tend to believe that what you're describing above doesn't have anything to do with alpha/beta distinctions, though. It's just about self-confidence, and I don't see it as being the sole purview of either alpha or beta. In some ways, alpha or beta distinctions are less about definition than about methodology, in my mind.

What traits will I highlight in my relationships to get what I want? That's what alpha/beta is about. It's about how you approach the pool, not how well you swim once you're in it.

Good discussion, gents.


Machiavellian idiot savant

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