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User Topic: Betrayed Men-Part 7
SourCherryDrops
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Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 5:22 AM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Being alpha has nothing to do with being closed off emotionally. It is about sending the message that you can and will drop them at any sign of being fucked with.

oftenwrong, i disagree with you on this, For me being an alpha doesnt mean that your willing to walk away from the relationship, Its much more about how much control or personal power you project over your immediate environment. It has as much to do with how you stand, how you talk, how you carry yourself, which all reflect your own self image, as it does with the actions that you take, or how you treat people. The same guy can be a beta male in one environment and an alpha in another, without any fundamental change in him other than his comfort level and self image in the two different environments. Actually reading further on and your followup posts, i think we all sort of know what an alpha is, and agree on much more than we disagree on.

I believe that in a relationship the person who has the least power is the one that is most commited to the relationship, in our situations that describes virtually all BH's immediatly after DDay, and in order for them to regain at least some power in the relationship they may well need to let go of the outcome of the R.

OIAL, i dont think its at all strange that in the immediate after effects of infidelity that BH's identify as beta's After all we have just been right royally put in our place, an other man, or men has taken our female from right under our nose, of course we will question ourselves and our confidence is shot, its going to find a while for us to find ourselves again.

WAL, I think that while the alpha qualities may well prove to be attractive in the early stages, that those same qualities can just as easily become to be seen as negatives as time goes on. The guy who knows what he wants and goes for it becomes self absorbed, the guy who makes decisions for both becomes controlling. These 'alpha' males are just as likly to end up being cuckhold as any other guy. and afterwards will take the same hit to their self esteme.

I would like to reiterate what i said above that most guys are both alphas and betas it depends on the current situation and who else is there. There are really very few that are allways alphas, or allways betta's and they are IMHO mostly unfit for a R at all.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
oftenwrong
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Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 7:25 AM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Those alpha attributes that you describe SCP come naturally and effortlessly with the base characteristics I described.

Why is it when a women finds confidence and strength, she is an empowered women. When men accentuates what I believe is naturally given to us, we are unevolved apes who are closed off?

I wish logic and reason were enough to convince women who cheat that what they are doing is destroying their lives. It isn't. Reason and logic fail in the matters of emotions and the heart.

In my opinion, most women only wake up when they realize they are going to lose the person they have wronged.

[This message edited by oftenwrong at 7:27 AM, February 17th (Thursday)]


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my opinion, most women only wake up when they realize they are going to lose the person they have wronged.

Perhaps. But I think that very often this "wake up" is not so much a full realization of the atrocities committed, and a corresponding sense of remorse, but rather a panic about losing their lifestyle, having their reputation tarnished, and also, yuck, the feeling at having lost out in the power trip they had over their BH (although, come settlement time, they can quickly realize that they have their BH by their financial balls, anyway).


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Since by definition the alpha personality exudes self-confidence, leadership, and a "take-no-crap" attitude, this must mean there are also female alphas. Just tossing that into the mix.
------------------------------

My own personal journey from alpha male to beta weenie:

Alpha stage:

1982: met my wife-to-be

1984: she gives me a load of crap and I tell her I want a year off from the relationship to date other women.

1984(6 months later): she calls, wants me back on my terms, and we get engaged.

1985: we get married.

1985-1990: I'm totally in alpha mode. Working as a machinist, teaching martial arts, carrying a gun, making plans and carrying them out. I spit lightning and crap thunder.

Beta stage:

1991: DS is born and I begin to ponder my mortality. My slide to taking on the persona of the sensitive male(think Phil Donahue, Alan Alda, PeeWee Herman) begins.

I go back to school and take law classes while working part-time.

1992: WW's affairs begin.

1993: Crap hits the fan at home but I have no idea why, although my gut is warning me, which I promptly ignore.

1994: We move from west coast to east coast. Can't find the kind of work I'm trained for. D-day 1. I spiral out of control.

1995: My Christian "turn-the-other-cheek" phase begins.

1996: D-day 2. Here's where it all falls apart. WW suggests I stay home to homeschool and raise DS while she works(physical therapist) to support us.

1996-2009: she gets all the power while I eat crap from her day after day in order to finish my task of raising DS.

2010: I find SI and DS moves to another state. I begin to attempt my shift back to Alpha male while WW lashes back in great fury.

2011: The damage is done and we both plot our exit strategy.

The big mistake here was to take on the role of the housewife and cede financial power to the wife. In some marriages that might work out just fine but that didn't happen for us.

Once I went back to school, worked part-time and then stopped working altogether, gave up my alpha male activity, and leaned on her to support us financially; all respect was lost. Once that happened the wheels came off.

Most women like to feel secure in their lives, whether physically, emotionally, or financially. Some will seek that security out beyond their marriage if they don't find it with their husband.
------------------------------

Gentlemen I have a flight to catch and will be away from the pc until Monday morning. Looking forward to resuming this conversation then. Thanks to all who take the time to contribute their wisdom and experience on this thread.

Mr. Kite


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
lostcause111
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Member # 19109
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I love this and agree and disagree with everybody LOL.

Now naturally with two healthy individuals maybe you can be beta a bit and get appreciation. This is what my rationale mind knows what right.

Now let me diverge. Many of our wives are borderline in some way shape or form and the above may be logically correct but not from a different perspective. My W lives very much in the moment and forward and backwards thinking and empathy are missing. It is now.

In her world Beta traits are the equivalent of kissing ass and of little worth and too much beta without a healthy dose of alpha is a losing scenaro even though Alpha by many of the good guys here is viewed as an enemy.

I will always remeber in MC when the female counselour asked wife. Does he do housework? She said yes. Has he done a lot mroe since d-day? Yes. That what do you want? Dear in the headlights from wife. next session I went to solo and forst thing MC says is why not divorce?

What works for my wife is VERy unfortunate because the element in her that is broken still is and I tried fixing it which was wrong. She never had to grow u.

So now let me get into what works. I send my wife messages through actions that I could be gone easily when things do not pan out as they should.

We went through a spell with no sex. I asked no. tried dates. No. What worked? When I went out with a friend to strip clubs till 3am. That worked.

She was mad pissed whatevr but sex came back.

Should I as a married man even need to go somewhere like that? No. It did send a message to my wife dont do what you need to do ... LC will find happiness elsewhere.

So do I still do housework and take care of the kids? Yes. But will I trigger lealousy in my wife from time to time? I have to.

Many of the things you read in pick up artist material are the only things that create what you need in a relationship. Attraction.

It is attractive to be strong, get your needs met, and not listen to what simply amounts to factless bitching.

keeping peace DOES NOT WORK. You give away all power and when bitching works you are just a weak ass beta guy. Shit I would not have been attracted to me with how much of a weakling i appeared.

I have balls now. Does she get pissed? Sure. It was and will NEVER be 100% peace as most men dream of.

The difference is now I believe in me and I stear the ship. I will be me. The good LC I am and will do what LC needs to do. She steered the ship during the LTA and drove it into the iceberg. So how stupid would I be to let her stear again?

I am not saying it is right or wrong. I am saying I knwo what works and what doesnt.

Doing this is hard because if not for the kids my W is not a good wife at all and it would be much easier for me to leave and find a MUCH healthier ADULT woman.

But it is what it is when you want your kids. I jsut will NEVER subjugate myself and my happiness again. If that keeps the marriage great if not that is OK too. I have let go.

If me being me ends things so be it.


Posts: 934 | Registered: Apr 2008
oftenwrong
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Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are definately female alphas. And I find them very stimulating. There is nothing sexier than a strong, confident woman who will challenge me. Challenging someone and being disrespectful are two completely different things.

It always comes back to respect. A woman must have respect for their man if they are to have any future together. How do we keep this respect? How do we get it back once it is lost?

I have tried every strategy in the book. Being sensitive, understanding, caring, patient, logical etc.

Those strategies were met with repulsion and in fact made my mate even worse.

I don't pretend to paint a large generalization with my limited experiences. I can only state what worked for me and what I observed worked for many others I have read in similiar situations.

There appears to be only one language that speaks directly to their soul. It is an unspoken language bred in to us over millions of years. Deep down, I beleive women crave this kind security and strength. Just as we crave in women to be tender, loving and a great mother to our children. Yes, it sounds sexist, but gender roles do exist and just because the PC movement makes such labels taboo in the last 20 years, doesn't change this fact.

I see a lot of parellels between battered woman syndrome and what the women put many of the BS thru on here. That kind of mental torture tailor made just for you. A person who knows every secret and weakness and exploits it their full advantage.

What I recommend, is never to let it get past level 2 and on to level 10. Learn to see the early warning signs and employ whatever strategy works for you to head it off at the pass. For me, being the leader not only works for me, my girlfriend is happy about it, I feel great and both of our needs are met. Will this work for everyone? Probably not. Only you can decide what works best.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Guys, I guess I'm just feeling really defeatist. After getting so royally cuckolded by my XW, and being utterly, completely blindsided by her many betrayals, I've simply lost faith. I'm pissed. Pissed at notions of entitlement wherever I see it. Royally pissed at all these stupid dating conventions where guys are expected to do all the initiating, all the paying, be the one to lay it all out on the line.

You know what? I've done all that shit. I was a damned good husband. I provided for her, put her interests first, always been a very involved father, gave her tons of time off. Gave her so much, that she called herself the bored housewife. Poor little thing had nothing to do, so she fucked stranger after stranger after stranger.

I'm sick of the God damned fucking male provider/protector role. No bloody way I'm going to bother wooing someone again. Makes me want to puke thinking of it. It's all a fucking charade.

Any woman that wants this ridiculous troubadour/knight combo can go fuck herself. I will not be used again.

And there's no way I'm letting any other person on this earth become my dependent. Marriage is completely out, because I am not dividing my stuff in half yet again when it inevitably craps out.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I find the entire concept of alpha male humans amusing, but will point out that an alpha male human is hypothetically competitive, goal-oriented, 'knows what he wants' kind of guy.

Alpha-males do not cheat, because simply put, that isn't competition. An alpha male wouldn't fuck another guys wife, no matter how he might try to spin it as "a challenge." The BH would have to be aware and willing to compete against that, and the OM would have to be up in his face about it. Even then the BH is at first going to be reeling, and what kind of competition is kicking a dude already down?

FWW described OM as an alpha male. I tore that shit down fast. I wish the loser would come up here and demonstrate his competitive, take-charge attitude and reconcile his reliability and confidence against ditching his own wife and kid to pursue a failed career in boxing groceries until he borrowed a few grand from my wife without my knowledge. It'd be the best goddamn laugh I'd get this year.

Alpha male is a label that means jack and shit, as far as I am concerned.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Alpha male is a label that means jack and shit, as far as I am concerned.

Yes, as much as I'm always looking for a class of people to hate, I have to agree.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
reallyscrewedup7
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Member # 30825
Default  Posted: 3:44 PM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

StillGoing

FWW described OM as an alpha male. I tore that shit down fast.

Good for you! I got that in spades on DDay. Some alpha male OM turned out to be. The only alpha male characteristic he had was a big schlong. And a schlong that couldn't last more than 60 seconds at that.

No wonder sex was great during her A. She was always left wanting by OM.


Infidelity sucks shit

Posts: 879 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Finding my way
reallyscrewedup7
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Member # 30825
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did any of you guys get "I never thought you'd D me?" or something indicating they thought you didn't have the testicular fortitude to send them to the curb?

Seriously S? You knew I fired two people because of ethical issues and lost my trust. You think I would just say "Oh, so you screwed another guy and lied for three months. That's cool. It is all good."????

Or am I the only BH whose wife thought he was so pussy-whipped that he wouldn't leave her? Not that I wish than on anyone, but it would be nice to know I was not the only one on the planet...

[This message edited by reallyscrewedup7 at 3:59 PM, February 17th (Thursday)]


Infidelity sucks shit

Posts: 879 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Finding my way
Merlin
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Member # 30221
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

reallyscrewedup7,

My XW said that she couldn't believe that I would file or see a lawyer without telling her first. At the time, I was telling her I had an appointment later that day because I had PI evidence (video, pix, eyewitness accounts, GPS tracks) of 4-day sleepover IN OUR HOME and drinking-party-concert fest with OM while I had the kids away for a short vacation she refused to go on (no wonder why).

I told her that all bets came off when she had her 'play house' time and refused to drop OM and work on saving our family.

WTF!


"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D. H. Lawrence

Her: WW/56 Me: BS/62, 24yrs M
3 great kids, now 22, 20, 17 b,b,g
D-Day 8/14/08, D 1/13/11


Posts: 1106 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: East Coast
palerider
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Member # 22496
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Or am I the only BH whose wife thought he was so pussy-whipped that he wouldn't leave her? Not that I wish than on anyone, but it would be nice to know I was not the only one on the planet...

I would guess it's almost, but not quite universal, since it's part of the female process of "betaizing" the H. We know it's not universal because some WW's on here are surprised the BH stayed.


Posts: 579 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Texas
Mighty
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Member # 26909
Default  Posted: 5:17 PM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nope. My wife believes she’s the ultimate mind reader. She “knows” what I’m thinking and acts out based on that never bothering to ask me what is on my mind. So why she TT’s is that she knows I’m going to leave her. Why she hid ALL contact with other men is she “knew” I would over-react. She “knows” how I feel about all this. She “knows” what I’m planning. The reality is I’m starting to believe that I’m really just a character of her imagination (totally clueless who the real me is).... She’s pissed, affronted, confused and depressed that I’m not following the script she’s made up for me. So she feels like a failure....

edit: and the one that gets me is because she does this, she's almost insuring herself I will leave. At times I feel like I'm still here just to make her wrong and prove my point.

[This message edited by Mighty at 5:20 PM, February 17th (Thursday)]


BS (me) 44 WS (her)43
Married 17yrs, Together 20 yrs
Three children (9-13)
D-Day #1 - 4/11/09 (me).. DD's stopped, she quit talking. Body count: 6 OM, 1 OW. (2 EA's, 1 LTPA, 1 PA, 3 "kisses").

Posts: 629 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Denver
shyguy
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Member # 18281
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My xw thought I would just let her sweep it under the rug like her mom and dad did. her mom is a serial cheater also. Her dad puts up with it. He gets no respect from either his wife or daughter.


Love stinks yeah yeah(J. Geils)

Posts: 5866 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: tulsa
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The only alpha male characteristic he had was a big schlong.

Yeah, he had that too. It still fucks with my head, much as I hate that it does. I am pretty much awesome all around and will get over that at some point too though.

Why she hid ALL contact with other men is she “knew” I would over-react.

I got something similar, though to be fair it was kind of justified. We'd seen a number of movies or shows over the very long course of her affair that included scenes that invited comment.. like Forgetting Sarah Marshall, he finds out she'd been cheating on him for a year, I believe I said "What kind of evil fuck could do that?" and went on for awhile about it. I guess that's really just solid evidence for you just don't know how you're going to react until it happens.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Mighty
♂ Member
Member # 26909
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I got something similar, though to be fair it was kind of justified.

For my wife it wasn’t. She started doing this when I did blow up at her for a lot of suspicious calls to this guy years ago. It nearly ended our marriage then. She swore I was just being paranoid, yet I noticed she called him every single time she was going out without me the minute she left the door and started deleting the logs to hide it.... Guess what: TT a couple weeks ago revealed she had “kissed him”. My gut was right and I was a fool to ever let myself be gaslighted into thinking I am overreacting or just plain old paranoid.

Regardless, she led a secret life based on how I might see her: So she manipulated the information from then on so I would not see her that way. Who wants to place bets on how she described the marriage to them so they believed she was happily married?

So getting back into the Alpha/Beta and confidence thing... My observation in life is it doesn’t matter. Those with issues are the ones who are more concerned with how you see them than how they see themselves. Are those fake tits for them or so other’s might like them more? Is that tough biker guy got the nice Harley because it makes him happy, or because he wants to be seen as the kind of guy who’d ride a bike like that? When they need the external validation just to define and reinforce who they are.... they have issues.


BS (me) 44 WS (her)43
Married 17yrs, Together 20 yrs
Three children (9-13)
D-Day #1 - 4/11/09 (me).. DD's stopped, she quit talking. Body count: 6 OM, 1 OW. (2 EA's, 1 LTPA, 1 PA, 3 "kisses").

Posts: 629 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Denver
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 6:27 PM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Eh, by justified I meant her thinking I'd boot her to the curb based on what I'd said. I had laid it out pretty clear what I thought of cheating and based on that she assumed I would react a certain way. There is no justification for gaslighting or that mind-reading crap.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 7:04 PM, February 17th (Thursday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Finallyatpeace
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Member # 29570
Default  Posted: 8:23 PM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Avoid comparisons (alpha vs beta), it stops you from seeing what's really there.

Bottom line is everyone is replaceable. Us as BH's, our wives as Wayward spouses.

Pre D day I had a standard commitment based relationship. I think I put with a lot of shit I didn't have to as the idea of my marriage was important, not the people in it.

Post DD we now both have a choice based relationship (As an adult, I should be willing to communicate what I want and need and as an adult she either accomodates those needs or let me know she can't). I'm free to leave at any time so is she.

For me, it really boils to what you an as an individual want out of your relationship. IF she can't or won't meet your needs, you either have to accept that or move on. It's got nothing to do with whether you act like an 'alpha' or a 'beta', but rather what you're about.

If someone stays despite a waywards shitty behaviour because they think they'll never find someone better, so be it. Just acknowledge it or change it.

If you stay because you're too cheap to leave, acknowledge it or change it.

If you stay because she's a great piece of ass, acknowledge it (don't change that).

This alpha/beta argument is simply a way to get around, facing the fact that ultimately you're responsible for what goes on in your life.



Posts: 59 | Registered: Sep 2010
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 8:34 PM, February 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you stay because she's a great piece of ass, acknowledge it (don't change that).

Hehe. Excellent.


Machiavellian idiot savant

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