Long story short, been about a year now since S. WW has been carrying on with OH the whole time (and living with him most of that time). I've been good about my 180 and gotten used to the idea of looking forward and maybe even dating. Well, now OH is becoming out of the picture (shocker) and now WW is coming back telling me things like she misses me, she wants to build back what we had, wants our family back, etc. Thing is, if she had said these things last fall, I might have been responsive but now I hear these things and my response is I get sick to my stomach hearing (as an aside, I'm not sure why I have that response) and realizing that I just don't have the vinegar to do the arduous R road back. Is this standard feelings on the road to an R or is it reality in that too much time/pain has passed. I know the next stage is going to be the tipping point b/c WW is now focused on trying to get herself back into the family picture. Do I want my family back? Yeah, but I'm not so sure I want my wife back. I'm generally fine most of the time and even get excited about the future without her, but everytime I engage her in her talks, I get sucked back into indecision. Hate it.
It was obvious she was only feeling lonely and seeking validation for probably having lost her boyfriend.
Mr reliable wasn't going to be there this time to make her feel better, build her up so she can destroy me again. When I saw her again not too long ago, I too had indecision. By this time, my inner strength far outweighed the weak man I had inside that was willing to put up with such foolery.
If you are seriously considering R, she has to prove thru actions, and a LOT of them that she wants back in. If she wants the relationship back, she better work her ass off.
The relationship was brutally ended the moment the cheating began. IMHO, the ballfield should be considered wide open at that point. And if the ballfield is wide open, why would you choose someone capable of such betrayal?
Maybe you'd choose R because you really believed she changed. But be very, very careful. We're talking about changing one's very character.
For the most part, I am ready to let go of the past 10 years of marriage (15 years of relationship) but what's holding me back is the possibility of R for the sake of the kids (even though it would mean a very tempered-passion marriage).
Blueeyedfella, this song says it much better than I ever could. Best of luck in whatever decision you make.
[This message edited by Mr. Kite at 10:36 PM, March 11th (Friday)]
I can't speak to the long-term S thing. I told my wife it's married or not married so when I look at that my opinion leans towards D and move on. You said she makes you sick, you're separated and you get excited thinking about the future when she isn't in it.
Why not file and tell her she has until the D deadline to convince you, because you're not really interested? Maybe that'd kick her in the ass if she's really serious.
My thinking, anyway.
What possible growth has their been in all of this time? She jumped from you, to OM, and now trying back to you because she fears being alone. Until she is comfortable again.
I don't know brother. I think you need to listen to that voice inside that is screaming at you not to believe that this will end in a happy ending.
I think you know in your heart what is bound to happen. she says and does all the right things to get back in to your good graces. The underlying issues were never resolved or even looked at from her point of view. Then Bam, back to business as usual.
You've been there for a year now you said. Was this situation where she bounced back something you were waiting and hoping for, or is it just an event that sparked off you thinking about moving everything forward for once and all? What was it you were waiting for that time during S? Her coming back or term to D?
Ive been seperated from my WW now for about 9 months, 18months since DDay. For the first 4 months after the S id have taken her back and given it my all again at the drop of a hat. But then something changed, now im not sure that i even want to have a relationship with her anymore. Just this weekend my gut tells me she stood there looked me in the eye and told me a straight out lie. SO i now believe that even should she want to try and R i honestly dont believe that she has it in her to do the work required to even have an even chance of success at R.
That doesnt mean that i wouldnt give her the chance, i just would have no illusions, no real belief that it will succeed.
I agree with the others that have said that your WW is most likely simply scared of being on her own, you are currently still her backup plan, If you do give it one last shot, then make sure that you know exactly what you want, what you deserve, what you expect from her, and make sure that she lives up to those expectations. She should consider herself to be the lukiest person alive because you offer her this last chance at R, and not the other way round (which is more than likely how she will really see it)
But I think if you sell out IE tolerate the way my wife was until I laid down the law is crazy.
I to;ld myself I would try for the kids not give up my life for them.
I wanna bounce something off you guys about this-my WW has not drank in 3 yrs-not a drop-she has been drinking damn near daily since 14, now 45? or 46?
She threw OMM under the bus on dday, stopped drinking cold turkey, 3 yrs now.
Would this be enough to try R for any of you?
I have been focused on getting details for so long, she says she does not have them, no memory etc-but she also has no memory of things WE did or that the kids did, simply because she was too drunk alla time...
I think it might be enough to consider it, to at least make a start at an attempt to R. It wouldnt be all that I would require, and if no more was done i doubt that i would be happy in the long term.
As for the details, My WW was cheating with several men over a period of over 2 years. It would be unrealistic for me to imagine that she would actually remember everything that happened. In fact in our Q&A sessions it turned out that my understanding of the timelines with each of the various OM was much better than hers... yes she allways underestimated things but i think that is a natural thing to do... after all is it really important that she slept with the guy 10 times or 20?... well at least to me it isnt.
You have her drunken state, which you acknowledge affects her memory, and on top of that you now also have the 3 years since it stopped. I would imagine that she is not going to remember any more details from her on in... whether she has actually told you all that she remembers is a different question, one your best placed to answer.
In the end for me it wasnt the details that were really important, rather it was the willingness to disclose them. to talk to me about what happened, to appologise for it in such a way that i felt she had thought about and tried to understand how this made me feel....that was important.
but you see i said for me...each of us is different, you have to figure out where your own breaking points are, whats important to you, but 64fleet i reckon you know this already.
I was a heavy drinker from 1973 until 1980, and a "black-out" drinker for 3 of those last years. What I did during those times when I lost consciousness but was still walking around is still unknown to me. So yeah, it's possible she could have forgotten many details.
Quitting drinking is not enough though. There's a term we have in AA called a "dry drunk." That's when an individual stops drinking but makes no effort to take steps to better themselves as a person.
Of the 12 steps of the AA program, these three seem to be the most pertinent for the adulterer who's been a hurricane through the lives of others:
#8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
#9 Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
#10 Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
A WW not drinking booze would not be enough to convince me to attempt R. She would have to be involved in some type of program or therapy that would eventually result in a personality change and give me some hope for the future.
In my own case; WW was a tee-totaling church-goer at the time of her A's and still claims she remembers very little. BS!
Anyone look back and wish they had just thrown their WW out on Dday?
Absolutely. Not just for my sake but for hers and my son's. The quiet hate, TT, constant suspicion, and paranoia was toxic.
If she were in the house, I think I would've been just tortured with triggers and emotions every second she was there.
With her being away, I could focus on me in a clearer and more peaceful state of mind. The 180 certainly helps, but it's even more effective if she's not even in the house.
I have read nearly all of your posts and what I read is someone in a lot of pain. Although you seem resided in yourself to accept the situation until the kids are grown, I think a large part of you still holds out hope that the relationship can be salvaged.
As to your question about R. What kind of growth have you seen over these 3 years? Even small growth? Has she met even the minimum amount of needs you have? Your WW sounds so broken, it is tough to imagine that any R will be easy. Sometimes, relationships and people can't be salvaged.
Has she given you any reason for hope? Has she given you any reason to give her even the smallest amount of trust? If yes to both of those questions, I think there is a foundation to at least start on.
I know she will get full custody in a D & turn my kids against me-my buddy just D'd, he now lives in a borrowed camper-he pays for her car, the house, she quit her job, etc etc
I just mostly wondered if I was being a hardass. I have seen a little bit of growth, but I feel she is simply incapable of being a good "normal" partner in a true marriage.