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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men-Part 7
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, March 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

crazyart

Read through your profile. You have an 8-year old and a 4-year old to think of. A man takes care of his children first and thinks of himself last. Obviously your WW didn't give a rat's ass about any of you. But someone has to be the adult. Right now that's you.

With some WW's their A's are caused by a twisted, selfish, screwed-up personality that they and you are stuck with for a life time(if you choose to stay with her). These are women who never grew up and live in a state of arrested development.

For others, their A's are a temporary meltdown, or a series of them, until they come to their senses. These are women who decide to grow up and take responsibility for their lives.

Those in the former group will continue to lie, cheat, obfuscate, gaslight, and blame you and anyone else they can think of. Those in the latter group eventually experience true remorse and are willing to do anything to make amends. Time will sort out who's who.

It's only been a few months for both of you. If it feels like someone napalmed your marriage/life; your feelings are absolutely normal. With no children it's simple; run and don't look back. With two young children it gets quite complex and will take time for you to sort through.

Your M, if you choose to continue it, will never be the same. Think of shattering a beautiful vase. You might be able to glue it back together and it might even hold water again; but it will never again look the same.

There are people on this site who's M's improved dramatically after the A or A's. It can be done. But it takes a lot of hard work and honesty from both partners.

For now do a lot of reading on this site, all of it. Have you read through the 180?
http://survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

Eat, sleep, work, exercise, get a punching bag, scream, rant and rave if you have to, read, post, find someone in real life you can confide in. Know that you will get through this and that we are all here to help you.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
lostcause111
♂ Member
Member # 19109
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, March 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unfortunately I am with Razor and 64fleet. I am here for other reasons.

I would have immedietely been D on d-day if not for my daughter ... paternity tested mine.

For a LONg while I tried and tried and failed.

Than I realized my wife has issues all her own that she does not have the will to confront.

She has severe self esteem issues and that has guided her entire life.

I am a good husband and friend and liked by all I meet.

her I have kinda become the epitome of all wrong in her life as she looks for external sources to find what is broken within.

We have done 100+ MC sessions and I forced in her into IC.

She is EXACTLY the same.

I remember pointedly two MC sessions that were back to back.


I was in MC and talking about my needs.
MC (female BTW) said is LC cleaning more, being more romantic, talking without anger? The look on her face told it. WTF do you want from this man?

The next MC session I went alone and first thing out of her mouth was why not divorce.

The MC would beat me up a bit and was trying to be my wives friend. I was pissed but 20/20 hindsight I saw what she was doing. She was trying to get my WW to change positively and she was a wall.

For me I cannot imagine ever another man calling my daughter father and even not knowing him i would likley want to kick his ass.

I had a bad childhood and never want to put my daughter threw that.

My WW is sick and expecting a good result is just punishing myself. Now ay would the 450th talk solve a thing.

So where does that leave me?

I am in a game of sorts where the only way my wife puts any effort in is if she is scared of losing me. If I act perfect and am 100% how I always have been it is as if she has me and does not put forward any effort.

So now I live my life for myself and will never cheat but talk with women and will hit strip clubs once in a while because they are both enjoyable to me when my critical needs at home for touch and affirmation are not met.

I have had to take what ANY rationale mind would think is right instead replace woith what works.

I still think about D every day at 3+ years out.


Posts: 934 | Registered: Apr 2008
Blueeyedfella
♂ Member
Member # 29944
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, March 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's been a while since I posted by deal here, so here's an update (x-post from "General")...

http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=399978

Those in the former group will continue to lie, cheat, obfuscate, gaslight, and blame you and anyone else they can think of. Those in the latter group eventually experience true remorse and are willing to do anything to make amends. Time will sort out who's who.

Very astute observation, Kite.
Based the above, and my attached link, I think my WW falls in the latter category, but for now, she's saying words and they haven't translated into action. Besides, I think there is such thing as a fog when they come out of the fog. She just came to her senses (supposedly) and dumped her "relationship" with OM. To me, she's out of that fog, but she's in a different fog. I told her straight up, be alone and get yourself right.


Me: BH (Mid 30s)
Her: WW (Mid 30s)
Married 10 years, together 15.
2 kids under 4.
DDay: Jan-2010
4 false Rs with varying degrees of "trying" - same result
Dec-started mediation process.

Posts: 250 | Registered: Oct 2010
oftenwrong
♂ Member
Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, March 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listen to Kite brothers.. He is my new Shaman for infidelity


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, March 18th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mr. Kite posted:

Time will sort out who's who.

For those interested in benchmarks, this took about 1 year to see commitment and 16 months or so to see real progress in my sich.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
oftenwrong
♂ Member
Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 12:25 AM, March 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Popped in for some late night bro talk and no one is around. The men sure got quiet all of a sudden.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
velveteer
♂ Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 3:05 AM, March 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hey guys - only really found this thread.

Story is in my profile, but my WW had a 7 month EA/PA with a friend. The A is now over (I believe) and she is NC (I think).

She is still at home and so am I - we have two kids. We are both in IC.

She is in withdrawal and still pretty foggy IMO. Still very focussed on herself and what she 'feels' but she is being more pleasant and less aggressive around the house than she has been.

I am pretty much doing a soft 180. keeping myself busy and getting on with my own shit. I'm keeping a road open for her (back to R), but she has to coe donw that road - I am letting go out the situation and the outcomes and focussing on me.

Dunno how long I can keep the road open, and I'm interested in this magic period discussed earlier in this thread. I think in tyhe forst few weeks, I was desparate to R but that was driven largely by fear and shock. Now that I see more clearly (IC a huge help in this) I find myself asking more questions about whether or this is really what I want, or more accurately if she is what I want.

Can people really change? Can she really become less selfish and self-absorbed?

guess I've got to hang in for now and see where it goes - all about me and the kids though.


Divorced

Posts: 854 | Registered: Jan 2011
oftenwrong
♂ Member
Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, March 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think in tyhe forst few weeks, I was desparate to R but that was driven largely by fear and shock. Now that I see more clearly (IC a huge help in this) I find myself asking more questions about whether or this is really what I want, or more accurately if she is what I want.

That is a huge statement and it sometimes takes men years to figure that out. Can people change? Absolutely.

The question is, can SHE change? Strip away the optimism, the dream of what you would like to happen, the illusion of the beautiful, honest, loyal wife you used to know and find that answer.

What is that voice inside telling you?


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
velveteer
♂ Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, March 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oftenwrong - I simply don't know if she can change. She will need to change some longstanding characteristics (immaturity, failure to take responsibility for her life and her actions, low self esteem etc).

She is not a serial cheater, but she has some deep issues that I think really really scare her and that is why she is running from responsibility and from the reality of her actions - she always has. Maybe her IC will push her into this, so I guess I need to wait and see.

The voice inside my head says if she can start to look honestly at herself and at these issues then maybe she can change. If not, then I do not want her. I have two children - I don't want another.


Divorced

Posts: 854 | Registered: Jan 2011
oftenwrong
♂ Member
Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, March 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wandering Wives are like drug addicts. They sometimes need to hit rock bottom and lose everything before they really decide to change. The problem with being the loving, supportive man that you are, you make her feel safe. That safety is what allows her to breach those sacred boundaries and feel free to step out of the marriage.

As men, we always want to make our spouses feel protected and safe. I will always do that. However, my mate will know the minute she steps over the line, it's over. I don't care how much it hurts me, I have lines in the sand that cannot be crossed.

It kind of creates a paradox. How can you make someone feel absolutely safe yet have the idea hanging over their head that it can be over at any second? It's quite simple. You either walk beside me or not at all. That in the end will make your WW respect you. The more she respects you, the more value you will have in her eyes.

I make it clear and in no uncertain terms to those I profoundly love that there is no price I won't pay, no pain I am not willing to feel to cut them out of my life if they betray me.

[This message edited by oftenwrong at 9:59 AM, March 21st (Monday)]


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
Merlin
♂ Member
Member # 30221
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, March 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oftenwrong,

Its a nice thought. But when they can clean you out in the divorce, get large, permanent alimony and hefty child support checks, its hard to make it stick.

And make no mistake, the divorce laws in many states allow just this, even the they wander.


"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D. H. Lawrence

Her: WW/56 Me: BS/62, 24yrs M
3 great kids, now 22, 20, 17 b,b,g
D-Day 8/14/08, D 1/13/11


Posts: 1102 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: East Coast
oftenwrong
♂ Member
Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, March 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Very true Merlin. If your WW really wants to change, she won't let it get to that point. She will try to steer the ship before it hits the iceberg.

If she doesn't care in the end, your money can be replaced. The hell you will live in for the next lost years can't be.

I completely understand your position though. As much as you have to lose, I guaruntee you your WW has so much more to lose. They will wake up when they realize they won't have a strong man around to support them. Women use money as a punitive measure. It's about taking back your power. The risks are high, the cost of failure is enormous. But such is the price of victory.

My last breakup emptied my life savings to pay her off. Life is too short brothers to put yourself thru this. You have your money now. You have your possessions. How happy are you currently? Yes, the children is a huge thing. It breaks my heart to know as men, you will mostly likely get shafted when it comes to parental rights.

But... You can still be a great father to your children whether you are in the same house or not.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
velveteer
♂ Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, March 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oftenwrong - she knows whats at stake and that I will D if she steps over the line - I have been very clear and very consistent on that since the outset.

D laws where I live (UK) are less punitive than in the US - she will be worse off than me.

I think and hope that she is trying to move in the right direction with IC and support from friends. its just hard to wait for signs of progress. Sure she is being much nicer and is reaching out to me more than before, but I have yet to see big strides forward.

We are also not communicating which may be partly down to my 180, which I have been keeping up for some time (more or less). I am trying to modify it a little to allow some comunication but she has not been keen to talk for a couple of weeks really.

The longer this goes on, the more I am worn down by it and the keener I am to get on with my life.


Divorced

Posts: 854 | Registered: Jan 2011
oftenwrong
♂ Member
Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, March 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All of the WS knows what is at stake when they step out. They just don't really get it or feel it. That's where we come in and push them in to committment or exiting. We are the icy cold water that splashes them back in to reality.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
Merlin
♂ Member
Member # 30221
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, March 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They will wake up when they realize they won't have a strong man around to support them. Women use money as a punitive measure. It's about taking back your power. The risks are high, the cost of failure is enormous. But such is the price of victory.

OftenWrong,

Maybe. But, as you say, its a high risk maneuver.

In your case, she righted. In mine, not so much.

And believe me, there is no "strong man around to support" her. He's a bum, 3 years on, he hasn't worked a day.


"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D. H. Lawrence

Her: WW/56 Me: BS/62, 24yrs M
3 great kids, now 22, 20, 17 b,b,g
D-Day 8/14/08, D 1/13/11


Posts: 1102 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: East Coast
oftenwrong
♂ Member
Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, March 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's time to lay down the law brother. You have power, use it. You won't regret it.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
Merlin
♂ Member
Member # 30221
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, March 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lay down the law

The law as laid on me. $3,100 permanent alimony, $1,500/mth child support (years of it), the usual half-of-everything. For the icing, the aliomony & child support back-dated to July 10.


"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D. H. Lawrence

Her: WW/56 Me: BS/62, 24yrs M
3 great kids, now 22, 20, 17 b,b,g
D-Day 8/14/08, D 1/13/11


Posts: 1102 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: East Coast
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, March 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dunno how long I can keep the road open, and I'm interested in this magic period discussed earlier in this thread.

There is no "magic period" before a WW awakens from her slumber. There are only different people and different circumstances. This is why generalizing rarely works.

Do you ever feel, while having a conversation with her, that you've heard this all before? That no matter what you say or do, it's a waste of time?

Excuses, blame-shifting, finger pointing, lying, hiding, b.s.=being stuck in a rut. Think of a phonograph needle going round and round on a record playing the same old, sad song. How long that record goes around is impossible to predict.

WW's first heartfelt apology over her A's came earlier this year. She's now 58. That's over 16 years since D-day 1. Others come to their senses almost immediately or certainly in a shorter time than WW did. But there's no rhyme or reason to the timing of it. It depends on the person and what drove her to adultery. Why did I stick around that long? To raise my son. No other reason.

Can people really change? Can she really become less selfish and self-absorbed?

Absolutely but not until they own their crap and are truly remorseful of it. Unfortunately this is the exception, not the rule.

Read through your profile and noticed that there was someone you didn't want to have your wife hanging around with.

During the years prior to WW's A's, she mostly hung around with two women. One was an ex-prostitute who hated me and told her "divorce him...he's no good for you." She was now banging guys for free. The other had a husband and two children. She was cheating on him. Her, the other one and WW would watch soap operas and hang out at clubs together.

I advised her that this was a bad idea. Drunks hang around with drunks. Drug addicts with drug addicts. Thieves with thieves. And women of loose morals with women just like them. People in those groups eventually influence the others who wander in, not the other way around. She told me "you're not the boss of me." The rest is history.

The point is that today we do it my way or she can get out. Being Mr. Nice Guy is what enabled her to almost destroy her life, our son's, and mine.
I no longer trust her decision making process. It sucks and always has. It's no longer a democracy in our house where I let her have it her way in order to keep the peace.

The law as laid on me. $3,100 permanent alimony, $1,500/mth child support (years of it), the usual half-of-everything. For the icing, the aliomony & child support back-dated to July 10.

Well there you go. If our WW's refuse to or are unable to R, we have two choices.
1. Suck it up and be miserable
2. Get a D and end up broke.
That's the hand we've been dealt. And yet there are still those who are shocked, SHOCKED, that some men have a negative attitude over what's happened to them.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
shyguy
♂ Member
Member # 18281
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, March 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Some cheaters never snap out of the fog. My WW never did. We divorced in may 08. She remarried in Aug 2010. I never saw any remorse. I never got a heartfelt apology. She may never realize the pain she has caused you.


Love stinks yeah yeah(J. Geils)

Posts: 5866 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: tulsa
Ethelred
♂ Member
Member # 23332
Default  Posted: 8:46 PM, March 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When I read the stories of others, and I think about my own situation, I feel sort of like I've been diagnosed with a terrible disease, and I'm waiting for Dr. Time to tell me whether it's one of those things which you recover from or whether it's fatal.

I have felt lately like I want to fast forward the button on my life until almost 15 years from now when my kids are all grown, and I can move on.

I would like to pull the trigger and get out of this situation, but I don't want my kids to be collateral damage. I am trying my best to give them a real family life. On most days we look like a normal family. The worst gaping wound is between my wife and myself.

I am in a bible study with a group of men at church, and one of the guys has intimated that all is not well between him and his wife. He is also reading "No more Mr. Nice Guy" and has joined one of their mens groups (he says all others in the group are divorced or are getting divorced). Some days I feel like I want to open up and talk to the guy, and other days I want to keep to myself.

Related to the same church, which we recently joined, I really like the pastor there, and have also sometimes toyed with the idea of talking to him, but I don't want to "poison the well" there either.

So, I am alone with my decisions. How much bad behavior am I willing to tolerate from my wife and still keep the family together? Lately it's just mainly been indifference towards me, rather than breaking NC that I can tell.

I was trying to do a 180 on her, but she has been doing a 180 on me first, all along!!

[This message edited by Ethelred at 8:48 PM, March 21st (Monday)]


Me: BH
Her: WW
Married: almost 20 years
D-Day: 2009 (cybersex for over 5 years, associated EAs); in the dark about PAs, no full disclosure.

Posts: 271 | Registered: Mar 2009
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