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User Topic: Betrayed Men-Part 7
noescape
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Default  Posted: 10:59 PM, February 29th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

64!! Great to see ya. How're you coping?

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
noescape
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Default  Posted: 2:23 AM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WAL. Absolute. Fucking. GEM of a post

I was going to quote this or that, then I caught myself selecting all of it, no point there really... suffice to say ALL of it is notable.

What novels did you write? Anything like a compilation of your posts for BH's available?

A post like that should be stickied on the JFO thread for EVERY BH out there.

Still processing, more later..


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
noescape
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Default  Posted: 3:06 AM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And working on you is not fixing those things your wife has identified as problems with you. What the fuck does she know? This is a woman who handles life's curveballs by doing impersonations of the Holland Tunnel with her vagina. She is not qualified to diagnose other people's dysfunctions, let alone yours, whom she has identified as someone who is worth, or deserves, to be traumatized and punished for all the things she doesn't like about you.

THIS encapsulates good advice vs. bad advice. Everywhere I turn; its about 'BS needs to fix WS problems with the BS'-all the way back till the time they first argued about the colour of the curtains; implying that her A's were indeed primarily driven by the BS's fuck ups. Sorry, that flies directly in the face of the politically correct statement most (on forums) would not deny; 'the A's are not the BS's fault'. bullcrap, its either this or that. I didnt drive her into another mans arms-she chose that based on her own faulty reasoning and emotional fuck ups. To suggest otherwise (even if not directly stated) is plain bad advice.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
noescape
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Default  Posted: 4:25 AM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Besides, most WS's (myself included) would probably be able to fix or at least start the work their M issues (pre/post A's) were they to pull their heads out of their arses.

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
64fleet
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Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

64!! Great to see ya. How're you coping?

Life is mostly OK-my fWW is sober 4+ yrs now, has turned into a good mother to the kids.

It's odd how now she is a much better mate, but my feelings for her are still gone.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
noescape
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Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What about trust/suspicions? How much do you check up on her?

Did you feel dishonesty or deceit creeping back into the M?


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
64fleet
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Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just don't care enough to check any longer.

She still lies to me on occasion, just about trivial shit w/the kids.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
Mypoorboys
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Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For wincing,
OMG Man! what a wonderful dissertation on your situation, (resolution), whatever you call where you are now.
I thoroughly enjoyed your honest description of how you dealt with and lived through the turmoil thrown into your life! Bravo, Bravo!
But! you still have that woman. We that are actually being divorced, thrown out with the trash, whatever you want to call it, see your story for what it is worth; great for you, but still not exactly the same as the, 'real deal'!
Again, I very much enjoyed reading your blog,
pertinent, and correctly addressing many areas, ie. delving deeply into the, 'Fog', but consider how you would otherwise have dealt with where you are now, if you WS did not turn back to you.
Thanks and GOD Bless
MPBs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

great for you, but still not exactly the same as the, 'real deal'!

Oh, I didn't realize that trying to plow through all of the shit with an often foggy WW who fights your progress every step of the way wasn't the real deal.

(I'm just fuckin' with you, man. I hear what you're saying.

There are some significant differences in paths between Recon and Divorce, not the least of which is trying to figure out how to stay present as a father through it all. I can only speak about the path I chose.

I would encourage you, however, to think about the bulk of what I said as "outcome neutral". I mean, whether you divorce or reconcile, you still need to rebuild your life and your sense of self. You need to self-soothe in healthy ways.

At the end of the day, if my wife had run off with OM, I'd like to think that my personal recovery would have looked much the same...only I'd be having hot sex with lots of different women instead of the same woman.)


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
noescape
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Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

64, WAL; I know both of you are at a place which is relatively better than the shitstorm of the first few months/years.

I wouldn't call it 'RECOVERED' in terms of how some sites and books sell you the idea that you'll have this even MORE amazing M (somehow) once you find out your wifes been fucking around behind your back and is really a lying, deceitful crazymaker who has loathed you but you just didn't know it. (yeah, dont we all want that kind of M???!)

But you didn't D either - for all the good and/or selfish reasons each of us have at different levels and priorities.

Question is; hate to say this, but doesnt the thought of 'what if she did it again?' cross your mind? It is a real possibility since she's done it before and arent we almost always repeating our historical cycles throughout our lives?; specially when R hasn't happened.

Question is, what if she did?

I mean, arent we, in a sense saying to her (with all due respect to your own FWWs) "hey you cake ate and you fucked around behind my back, I'm sure it was great while it lasted and you got what you wanted from both the A and eventually from this M and since you're not lying dead in a ditch or a crack whore on the streets without your husband and your kids; its almost fair game that you can try this again-maybe just be a bit more careful next time"


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Mypoorboys
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Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey WAL,
Thanks for the wonderful humour. Just kidding. I do appreciate where you are coming from, but noescape does have a valid point; once a cheater always a cheater. In my opinion, it is worth moving forward if you establish real, 'checks and balances', around your wife and protect your kids at all costs.
A lot of people forget, when a WS cheats on the H, she also cheats on the kids. Regardless of what the damn A-Hole experts tell us, the kids will always be harmed by Adultery. They have a, 'sixth sense', about Mom and Dad.
I would trust her only as far as I could wack her with a wack-a-mole mallet, but good luck regardless.
MPBs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
dday3302011
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Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wouldn't call it 'RECOVERED' in terms of how some sites and books sell you the idea that you'll have this even MORE amazing M (somehow) once you find out your wifes been fucking around behind your back and is really a lying, deceitful crazymaker who has loathed you but you just didn't know it. (yeah, dont we all want that kind of M???!)

LOL! It's like we should be happy our wives sucked some other guy's cock, because through that sucking action, our marriages became what we always knew they could be. Magical!

Question is; hate to say this, but doesnt the thought of 'what if she did it again?' cross your mind? It is a real possibility since she's done it before and arent we almost always repeating our historical cycles throughout our lives?; specially when R hasn't happened.

noescape, of course it crosses my mind. How could it not? I think the point of what WAL's been saying, and many BH's here agree with, is to live your life to the fullest and stop being so dependent on your M to define your happiness. The "my M defines me" way of thinking falls right into the trap many WW's propagate. She could do it again, and she might. That isn't my problem anymore. You have to get to a point where you decide to stay and work on your M despite what could happen. Do it for you because you want it, and because you believe she's done enough introspection that you feel comfortable that it won't happen again. If you don't feel comfortable, end it, but don't live in fear of what could happen.

[This message edited by dday3302011 at 12:48 PM, March 1st (Thursday)]


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
noescape
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Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, I did actually want some experienced eyes on my current dilemma as explained in another ICR thread; from BS to WS.

I've almost reached the point of "I could care less about the truth/about how many men she shagged", but, as WAL explained, we need the information/objective truth to help make practical decisions. So without much further adieu, I ask you to cast your experienced eyes on this:

The goal: I need some fucking ninja sherlock holmes shit here. She claims 'only' EA's, I'm fucking sure its way more. Maybe I AM paranoid, maybe I AM Projecting (from my own PA), maybe I am over thinking it. Could be 'Toxic shame' as someone on some other forum diagnosed-she'd be willing to lose everything (family, kids, H, future) because of it.

Basics/background;

She always had internet affairs; even when she was steady with her first BF, she had a steady stream of online chat buddys (EA's)-some she met in real life (2 or 3 confirmed make outs during the time she was steady with BF#1). One or 2 encounters also happened after she broke up with BF#1-rapidly developed relationships also over the internet-like we're talking days to get to first base (closeted chats , all night, uninhibited, you know the drill).

A year into the M and I started suspecting she was back in those sleazy chat rooms (one of our M conditions was that she never go back there again, EVER). Of course she didnt consider them sleazy (I have many 'friends' there) but I had seen it and it was a flirtathon and every girl was game as far as the 50:1 sausage fest ratio was concerned. I installed a keylogger at home and monitored usage for months-but didnt catch anything-so I completely let my guard down (fuck me!). I thought 'she's not capable of this, i'm the one being paranoid here'.

She turned out to be smarter than that. She used her PC at her moms house (MIL was in the same city and alive at the time) to start up her online EA's (whether with ex-online flames or new ones; i'll probably never be able to confirm) - but this was later, like 2 years in and our first son was about 6 months old. She spent a lot of time at her moms house, why? Because she had just delivered, because her (divorced) mother was suffering from and undergoing intense treatment for cancer and she was the only offspring here for support, because I used to work night shifts often and had a hectic work schedule. I was also involved heavily in some social responsibility initiatives.

THATS the background.

Now, what I know/she admitted; There were tons of guys she chatted with online (in that sleazy room), "honestly, I was just looking for my old friends". She claimed over a 2-3 month period back in 2005. I dug out the HDD and with some forensics figured it out to be more like 12 months-but alas I didnt find any of the chats, just evidence of her visiting this chat room. Anyway, then 5 months on says she got interested in this one guy, who, over a month graduated to SMS and phone calls (apparently no one had crossed into the 'real life' realm as of yet). "We were 'just friends'". She said she met him once, at his house, to 'exchange gifts' and 'nothing happened' except that he rested his head on her lap (stop laughing guys, theres more) and she ran her fingers through his hair, then DS (who was 1 yr old at the time and almost stuck to her) woke up and cried (yeah, she took him there, to this guys house, on their first meeting.... or so she claimed). Then she admits that soon after, one of those days when the justification 'to do something' was really high, she desperately wanted to meet him 'to do something' but he was unavailable. That was her wake up call, and she realised she was not just friends and broke it off. And stopped all internet stuff... Except she didn't, less than a month later she was back on, and then got 2 random guys to call her 'because she needed someone to talk to'-but not 'him' because he was too dangerous. Then she did call OM#1 but from the hospital where her mother was on her deathbed, WW was distressed, apparently OM#1 was disinterested. (yeah, fuck me, I was commuting daily-about 200 miles each way, for weeks to be by her side and help out with her mother and I was taking care of DS while she looked after her mom, spending through my nose for hotels I couldnt afford but we had no choice; and she needs him because she is distressed? wtf???)

Thats it, she says, mom dies, no more hidden PC, hence everything stops. Says she was 'clean through 2006-2009.'too scared of me finding out'.

Fast forward to 2009, I was away a lot on business, coming home just on weekends for about a month before this started (this also happened to be after she found out about my PA and I had driven it underground (ended the physical-OW lived 3000 miles away)). RA? or exit A? or both... she gets online, finds ex-BF on FB, also gets back to the chat rooms 'looking for my old friends', for the next 4 or 5 months my schedule stayed the same; she is a crap mom to our, now 3 kids. Stays up most nights online, chats, and I cant confirm.. cams? Maid takes care of the kids in the mornings and thru the days. ("it was my exit A's").

I found a stray email on a routine check of her regular mailbox (not the hidden ones), and man-WHO was she? This was an exchange with another hcick whom she met in the chat room, and woah-fun, expressive, smart... I didnt know this person (knew her before i married her). I had a wife who was staid, bland, inexpressive, reserved, etc.. etc.. you get it. Thats when the alarm bells went off and then subsequent DDays (my A had been dead for over 6 months by then).

Now, here's her absolutes:
NO SEX
No sexual talk "I wouldnt go there, I was a M woman (wtf???)
No flirtation
No PA
No kiss or make outs
No meetings or phone calls other than the OM#1

Other than the background I gave, theres been a few clues;
I found a note from the first few months of her being online (before OM#1) which is a poem describing how she is has sex with "once a friend, now a foe" and she wants to say no but cant.
Her mother always had maids who seemed too attached to DS; i.e the kid was always left with them. Opportunity(ies)? Yup.
As I said, I used to work night shifts and she always had tabs on me and my whereabouts. There were times I slept over at my folks home which was closer to my office than our flat (while she was at her mothers or couldve been at home). I particularly remember many instances of trying to call her and not getting thru, of days we went flared up at each other and didnt talk or communicate. I even found an SMS i sent her complaining how she hadn't bothered to return my calls for 3 days!!!
She says her mother was not an enabler-I have my doubts about this. Her mother not only didnt like me at all, she was particularly unable to enforce any boundaries on her daughter (were she to not like something she was doing) and she was also particularly liberal in her attitudes in that she wouldnt stop something "its your life, you live it the way you want it"
Heres the yucky part which I realised recently- a lot of times she had yeast infections in her woman parts. Like a LOT more than what I would consider normal. Just completely unexplained. (I felt at the time it may have been due to me). It also contributed to our dwindling/non existent sex life.
She never identified OM#1 or any other OMs from the earlier period. "They were online-I dont know them". ex-BF, whose emails and her emails to him I caught out through a keylogger has been identified and NC'd (he lives 6000 miles away). she had been in touch with him back in '05 as well, but 'nothing developed' unlike this time. and one 'friend' from the chat room was identified by her, one she had known for over 12 years with a fleeting in and out interest which took a somewhat more involved turn in early 2010. She only exposed his handle, not his name and the NC email bounced, so it doesnt count.

So the question is... after all this-which came out in TT lasting over 1 year and with continual minimising and obviously the gaslighting to accompany every DDay ('how can you not believe me? dont ask me questions if you dont want to accept my answers' etc.... etc... SICK)... what do you guys think? PA? PA's? Orgies? LTPA/LTEA? ('05-'10)

And before anyone asks, we dont have polygraphs in this country.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...books sell you the idea that you'll have this even MORE amazing M (somehow) once you find out your wifes been fucking around behind your back...

I think books largely ignore the experience of being a BH. I've heard a great many BW's say their marriage improved, and I'm at least partially convinced that the reason their marriage has improved is because an affair gives them all-time leverage to make their husbands comply with the relationship guidelines she wants to set. His choice is to comply or get the fuck out. Our society has models for what a compliant, former boys-will-be-boys cheater is supposed to look like. For men, it is accepted penance that if you cheat on your wife, the decent thing to do is to spend the rest of your life making it up to her.

Women get a different message. They're told they cheated only because we're assholes. There is no good model for the redemption of a wayward wife. There's no narrative for it. So they try to impose the feminine relationship model onto the reconciliation and use that as a metric to gauge progress. Which is often disastrous.

Most of the men I've seen who describe their marriages as recovered have done so within the framework of negotiating a new marriage that is less enmeshed than the previous one. One where they are more independent and feel like they have more of a right to get what they want out of the relationship, and not feel like the relationship is tuned toward the concept of making their wife feel happy and fulfilled -- which, honestly, is the way I think we pitch marriage in Western society. It is a very feminized institution, and all of the perceived value that arises from it is described in terms of feminine values (emotional intimacy, deep sharing, romantic love, etc.)

There's some variation here, of course, because even with men, most of us are modeling our parents marriage, so values will get weighted differently across the spectrum. I'm speaking in generalities by necessity. That is to say, some guys will really dig "my wife is my BFF" sorts of intimacy, and that's okay. If that's true for you, that should be one of your guiding principles in demanding what you need out of the new marriage.

But, by and large, men seem to be happier when they can lower the bar of emotional support they're expected to provide and start demanding that their wives start meeting their own needs. Where her drama doesn't have to become his drama, and he isn't expected to go above and beyond as an entitlement because she agreed to marry him.

I mean, there are two ways to feel really appreciated in your job: more money for a promotion to more important work, and the same money for dramatically less work. Either path leads to enormous amounts of job satisfaction. Know what I mean?

but doesnt the thought of 'what if she did it again?' cross your mind? It is a real possibility since she's done it before and arent we almost always repeating our historical cycles throughout our lives?

Sure. It crosses my mind a hell of a lot less now than it did in the first couple of years, mostly because my wife has done the sorts of work and trust-building to convince me that she's no longer the sort of person who sees cheating as a viable behavior.

But, you know, I think you can only be blindsided by infidelity once. After your spouse cheats, you know what they're capable of. If it happens again, it's not like it will really be a surprise. You've already lived through it. There's a layer of emotional insulation there that wasn't the first time it happened.

I enjoyed D-Day #2 (when my wife broke NC with the OM at 18 months) immensely more than D-day #1. Because I'd been through it. I knew how to handle myself. I suddenly had this awesome opportunity to say all of the really cruel, hurtful, absolutely brutal things I hadn't allowed myself to say in between those times because they would have just been pointlessly hurtful.

Good times, let me tell you.

I have a hard time believing I'd stay after another affair. There just wouldn't be enough left to interest me in her or the relationship. I mean, I gave practically five full years to recovering from her affair. I'm happy we reconciled, but it wasn't worth five years of my life. It sure as fuck wouldn't be worth another five years just to keep a claim on the same beat-up old vagina. I mean, none of the OM thought it was worth spending five years of their life to get in there, so it certainly wouldn't be worth that to keep it a second time around.

There are a great many vaginas in the world, most of which have a significantly lower threshold for entry than five years of misery.

Look, I don't believe that anyone in the world ever deserves a second chance. Second chances are a gift. Infidelity deserves divorce. That's the appropriate outcome in all cases. Reconciliation is an extension of grace to someone who does not and cannot ever deserve it.

(Which is not to say that people don't deserve to be loved...just that not everyone deserves to be loved *by me*. And even if I continue to love you, that doesn't mean you get to be part of my life.)

The risk of reconciling is that your wife will choose to remain a fucked-up, cum-guzzling dick dumpster. She just might. There aren't any guarantees. I've gotten lots of gifts over the years that were well-intended, but not something I actually wanted to ever own, you know? Just because you offer the gift or reconciliation doesn't mean she's obligated to receive it.

I think that if you're smart, you watch her for a good, long time. You make sure she's consistent in her words and actions. When she starts acting like a c*nt, you tell her she's acting like a c*nt, and you re-evaluate the relationship. If she's failing consistently...at some point that stops being about how much of a c*nt she is and starts being about why you keep expecting a fucking Real Doll to be a actual, grown-up woman.

As I said above, you only get blindsided once. You know how to read the signs after that. She needs your collusion to get away with it again...a whole string of instances where you tell yourself, "Just because that looks bad doesn't mean it is bad. She's not like that."

(I don't know about you, but during my wife's A, I had several conversations with her where I distinctly remember saying, "You know, if someone who didn't know you like I do was looking at your behavior, they'd say you were probably cheating on me." I let my wife spend the night at OM's house at least two nights a week for almost a full year because I trusted her -- long story, makes sense if I tell the whole thing, don't feel like it right now.)

At the end of the day, you can't control anything she does. If she wants to give cleaning closet blow-jobs to the fax machine repair guy on her lunch hour, you can't stop her. That's not your fault, and it doesn't even say anything about you. Even the scores of people out there who believe infidelity is always the fault of the BS draw the line between misguided WW's who feel stuck and unable to express their needs and serial cheating bitches who couldn't keep their pants on with with an industrial nail gun and a crate of duct tape.

And they draw that line at "that dumb slut did it again; can you believe she cheated twice?"


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
64fleet
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Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

noescape-I actually expect my fWW to cheat again-anything else is foolhardy, IMHO-past behavior being the best indicator for future behavior. She cheated on her 1st H. I was stupid enough to think I was different somehow. My mistake entirely.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
dday3302011
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Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow noescape, that's a shitload of lying, and it seems obvious she's continuing to lie, rugsweep, and gaslight.

Before you'll get any honesty from her, IMO, she'll need to start doing the work on the "how's and why's". Is there more to her stories? Probably a lot more, but you can't make her tell you. Until she sees herself for who she really is and wants to change, there's really nothing you can do other than start being good to yourself.


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Quick hitter, because I've got to get back to work after my last tome:

Yes, I think your wife is lying/minimizing about the PA aspects. I don't have any good reason for that, but the yeast infection thing is a tip-off.

(Not always. Some women get yeast infections. Soap, laundry detergent, medication changes...too many variables to say definitively. But, I mean, if at the times of your peak suspicion, she was having lots of yeast infections that have subsequently, magically disappeared, that's a red flag.)

My wife started showering more frequently. It wasn't abnormal for her to shower twice a day. She also started douching, which she's never done before or after. She bought new underwear. Frequently.

If your wife is just chatting people up, she isn't going to make a bunch of physical appearance or hygiene changes. No need, right? If she did start making changes, then...yeah. Red flag.

Additionally, I wouldn't completely discount this concept of toxic shame if I were you. I suspect your wife is carrying around a bunch of toxic shame. She essentially behaved like an addict during the most powerful formative years of her children's lives. Way to go, mom!

Toxic shame is some seriously destructive shit.

It is also not your problem and not something you can fix for her. Toxic shame is a product of engaging in behaviors one knows to be shameful, then internalizing the stigma of those behaviors. It's a huge component of addiction therapy...and let me tell you, I have yet to encounter an addiction therapy model that treats toxic shame by foisting the responsibility for dealing with it off onto the addict's spouse.

Most of the models go something like this: "When you stop acting like a drunk/addict/slut, forgive yourself for having been a drunk/addict/slut, and accept that you're not a drunk/addict/slut any longer."

(Again, don't misunderstand: spouses can contribute to toxic shame. We just can't heal it. Whether or not it's a legitimate vector for attack in a given marital argument, I'll leave to your best judgment.)

I've got to be honest with you, though. If she's TT'd you for a year and isn't being more forthcoming, I don't expect that healing her toxic shame is going to make much of a difference for you. It might make her safer as a partner going forward to heal that gaping wound, but after a year as passed, it just seems to me that there's so much less impetus for a WS to come clean. My personal opinion is that you get it in the first year or you never get it (unless you uncover a trove of artifacts, e-mails, chat logs, etc.)


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
lordhasaplan?
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Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And they draw that line at "that dumb slut did it again; can you believe she cheated twice?"

AMEN!

At almost two years out I can say WAL and others have demostrated some common truths.
1. There is always a large bent toward the BH being the issue and not meeting needs. Fuck That! in fact when I look back now I gave so much of my happiness up to make her happy and meet needs. Fuck that noise.
2. If you fall into the trap that this is the case your R is doomed to fail through lack of ability to ever meet anyone elses needs particularly if that person can make the deccision to fuck someone else to solve a problem and get their temporary needs met.
3. I agree with the take R works best when you establish the M as being a nice to have, if it fits my life thing.

I reached such indifference to my wife I can say I could leave her tomorrow if I was not 100 percent convinced the M was secondary to MY happiness. This is not to say I dont love her or we dont care for one another. But I can say unequivocally I would not stay through any more Bullshit, affair related or not. I was thrown into salvation mode for 9 months and by the time I came up for air I realized the M I was holding so dearly too was a steemy pile of one sided shit, where my happiness was tied to hers. fuck that. My happiness is tied to me doiong what makes me whole. If she is in that equation fine, if not I can get a dog.
LHAP?


64- I hope for your sake that doesnt happen. people can overcome dysfunctional ways of coping and decisionmaking, but it is up to them to do it. It seems your W has not done what it takes to make you belive she has done it. Where as WAL sounds like his W has. People can overcome past decisions and make differing ones. But it takes work.


noescape

If your wife is just chatting people up, she isn't going to make a bunch of physical appearance or hygiene changes. No need, right? If she did start making changes, then...yeah. Red flag.

WORD^^^^

[This message edited by lordhasaplan? at 1:39 PM, March 1st (Thursday)]


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10)

Posts: 1797 | Registered: Nov 2010
Mypoorboys
♂ Member
Member # 33169
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To All,
Great job posting today everyone! Great advice, wonderful literation, smart thinking. All good food for thought.
Thanks guys and keep praying for all of us BH's, especially for our innocent kids.
GOD Bless,
MPBs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So the question is... after all this-which came out in TT lasting over 1 year and with continual minimising and obviously the gaslighting to accompany every DDay ('how can you not believe me? dont ask me questions if you dont want to accept my answers' etc.... etc... SICK)... what do you guys think?

I think she's unlikely to be trustworthy to any degree if she's still saying that shit.

I dealt with a lot of gaslighting. Someone wrote a post about emotional abuse, and it sounds like I'm a wuss for admitting it but I dealt with that for a long, long time. There was some TT for weeks after dday. When I found the secret email account 3 weeks out I just broke. Was about when I came here.

She pretty much threw herself in reverse and floored it with the attitude and lies at that point, and if she hadn't I don't know that I would have made it much longer in this marriage. I don't think I've ever punished her in the way WAL describes, but I reached a point where my concern over her reaction to anything went into null space.

My wife had cheated on me. What's more, she had been doing so for about a year and a half, while we were pouring money into MC and psychiatrists for me, and dealing with all our relationship issues and making that the reason for her impending move out and what I assumed would be our eventual divorce. Before that she'd had at least one EA, and before that she had an affair before we were married, which was originally a ONS but in the wake of recent events was revealed to be an affair similar in nature to this latest, only sans kids and dogs and mortgage.

I'm here because my wife has worked hard to convince me she wants me to be here and will be as honest and forthright and transparent as humanly possible. There is a mountain of shit looming behind us and it casts a long, long shadow.

Everything isn't perfect all the time, and there are always bumps here and there, but those are bumps and imperfections. Not design. The design is for honesty and transparency.

If your wifes design is dishonesty and opaqueness and the imperfections are the occasional truth, then I think you should disengage and focus on your life without her as a factor in it, or at least as a factor bearing any more import than is absolutely necessary as regards your finances and child.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

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