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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 23
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, February 25th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need for him to do that, but I need to not be his mommy and make him do it, KWIM?
Yep...know exactly what you mean. I feel the same way. One of the attributes that I really, really loved about my FWH when we met and fell in love was that he was a "doer." He didn't just sit around and wait for something to happen, he made it happen. I liked that he had drive and initiative. Fast forward 28 years and I'm wondering where the initiative has gone?? Still has not finished "Not Just Friends" but ordered a book about car racing just this week.

I'd rather lose him than stay in a marriage without trust.
And for me it's not just whether I trust if he will have another A...but whether I can trust his judgement about things big and small, and if I can trust his intuition, his self-awareness or if he is going to keep compartmentalizing the parts of his life he just doesn't want to deal with. An example....the in-law thing.....

So when FWH talked to his Dad several weeks ago and told him about the A, FWH told me that his Dad said that of course he would have to talk to his wife (my MIL) about it. Honestly, I would have expected him to. But this morning I'm sounding off the FWH about how hurt I am that his folks came so DS17's lax game, sat right next to me and said not a word of support to me. FWH says this morning that he's not even sure that his mom knows! Maybe his Dad didn't tell her. God knows she hasn't brought up any "unpleasantness" with FWH let alone me, so we don't know other than the comment by my FIL that he would tell her. Okay...so FWH is waffling about whether she knows and he says that before we/he tells her about the A "we should consider all the consequences." I LOST IT!! Yep...yelled and everything about whether he considered the consequences before he screwed OW over and over. Or did he think of me as he was screwing her?? Why do I have to consider the consequences of what I do, but he doesn't??

So much for my feeling strong and positive. Honestly, I don't think this is going to work. I think I'll take a page out of Nell's book and start picking out paint colors for my own place.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, February 25th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

whether he considered the consequences before he screwed OW over and over. Or did he think of me as he was screwing her?? Why do I have to consider the consequences of what I do, but he doesn't

Well, you are better than him, that's why.

Also, I think the blood flow needed for intelligent thought may have been re-directed elsewhere during his A, kwim? Lol.

And, I agree - the trust issue is above and beyond further infidelity. It's trusting that he's got my back, thinking about me first, trusting that he is what he says he is in every way.

And, I understand what you were saying about things that attracted to us to our spouses that are now seemingly lost. One of those things was that my H was never a player, even though he's attractive, very funny, very popular, he was always a very down to Earth guy that had his priorities straight. Hmmpf! (Did I mention I made this assessment when I was 16?)


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, February 25th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

strongish.

Maybe your FIL & MIL don't know what to say. Maybe they do not really want to get into your private life. Many people do not like to do that about any subject. This subject could be very hard for them to talk to you about. Remember, when they were younger nobody talked to others about things like this. There is also the "blood is thicker than water" thing. Hard to talk about their son doing something like this.

Allgood.

I'm sure you were a very smart 16 yr old, but you were still 16. We all mis-judged about somethings. Our WSs were not who we thought they were. I agree that it is more of a issue of total trust about all things. We got burned by trusting. That is hard to recover from.

I was going to log how much time I spent on SI. Never did. I know I am on here way to much but for some reason I can't stay away. Last summer when I had so little time to be here I think I was starting to get the shakes.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, February 25th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, boy. I am really getting good at the whole venting in a journal thing. About to focus my energy and creative writing power on stuff that gets me paid. Over and out... possibly for the rest of the day. Hugs, people!


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, February 25th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest: He's a jackass, always was. That he was always that way is just further proof that you are in no way shape or form responsible for his reprehensible behavior.

Thank you Allgood for putting it in that perspective. WH was always blaming me, that I was too needy or depressed, etc, and how good he was that he didn't want to hurt me and leave me!

I'm just realized now as I'm writing this, that it's not that one dwells on past hurts, but the perception we had of ourselves and others at the time can have great effect on how we view ourselves in the present.

His past behavior hurt me, and me accepting his explanations for the behavior and shifting blame to me, as though there was something wrong with me!! Geez, yes there was something wrong with me!!! I accepted the blame and his behavior!! When I was ready to leave several times, he pulled me back in big time with promises and words and grand gestures.

Once we were married, I thought he changed.

I think what is hard for me, is that I saw my history one sided, and now I have to rewrite it. It is not just the rewriting of the facts, but all the emotions that were based on what I believed to be true. That is what is rocking me to the core.

You see, for me, because of my beliefs in the "marriage" I changed a lot of my life and behavior over the years.

WH wanted kids, I already had kids and didn't know if I wanted to start over.

So I gave up my career, had 3 more children and buried one of them. Left my older sons here and went to live overseas on and off for many years. Etc. etc. All of this I did because of MY belief in our marriage and how WH was committed to it too.

I'm not having a pity party here, but trying to reconcile in my mind what really happened so I can go forward This whole thing rocks one to the core.

I have to look at all the reality of everything and reconcile it so I can move forward.

It's crazy, but I told WH that I was making all these doctor appointments that I put off because I wasn't taking care of myself. He quiety and almost kindly said, "That's very good, you should. You've been concentrating on me instead of yourself."

Allgood, Nell, Strong, Miracle (matter of fact all of us) you were talking about trust. It isn't just trusting that the WS won't cheat again, it's overall trust that they are there for us, That we are a priority in thier life. For God's sake, we can trust a friend!!!! We can trust a friend to be there for us, to listen to us, to help us if we need it. Shouldn't we be able to rely on that same kind of trust from our spouse?

Ok, sorry, I'm rambling.

It's good that WH forgot to ask about the CAT scan results. He told me that he is always forgetful, etc. BS. He made sure to call OW during the summer when we were out on the boat with HIS cousins and aunt. Told me because the baby OC was sick and he was checking. No, it's not being forgetful. It's being a priority, and I'm not and I don't know when I was. It hurts big time when I changed my life and my sons' lives for him. My whole life revolved around him.

So, I'm not only mad and betrayed by him, I betrayed myself (and my older sons too) and that's the hardest thing to deal with.

Sorry for the ramble.

{{{tribe}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, February 25th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest.

You were betrayed. You did not betray yourself or anybody else. You were making decisions based on incomplete information and outright lies. Your situation is just so very hard. Allgood is right. Your H is a jackass.
Hugs to you Honest and,

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, February 25th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Honest ))) You didn't betray anyboday. You believed what your adult, supposedly rational PARTNER was telling you about your relationship. You showed faith and loyalty in him. It's not your fault that he didn't show you the same.

Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 4:36 PM, February 25th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Strongish and Dip, but my problem is that there were RED flags that I allowed WH to explain away, because I WANTED so much to believe his lies. I put my trust in him when my gut said no, and I ignored myself. That's what I get upset about.

It's almost as though I was so selfish to believe in a fantasy....
But there it is again. I am willing to take blame where it is not even my fault.

I still need "reality checks" because I don't even trust myself anymore. Thank you.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 5:01 PM, February 25th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest.

I ignored red flags and believed my W when she answered my questions about some "red flags". We all did that. Let me borrow part of your name. We trustedtoafault. The times I questioned my W about something that did not make sense, she would give me a explaination and I would trust her. She took advantage of my trust. We all had this happen to us. We were not all selfish for believing what we were told.

Everybody here is pretty darn smart. Everybody here still fell for the same shit, just different versions. It does piss a person off, but you can not take the blame for what happened. The Ws mentality makes for really good liars. We got fooled by experts.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 5:28 PM, February 25th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

Honest

YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME IN ANY WAY. Say this over and over at least once an hour every day. You were just a woman like all of us who wanted a loyal, loving and considerate husband and father for your children.

He is a fucktard!!!

We all saw the red flags. God I had so many but I didn't see then and I refuse to think of them now. We trusted (as you do!!!) our partners and no matter how bad things were we never considered they'd be unfaithful.

I read in the news yesterday about a lady walking to the shops to buy milk and bread. She is blind and had a guide dog. She heard a car pull up and was hit over the head from behind. When she tried to get up they hit her again and then stole her purse - with $50 in it!!! Her poor dog ran off home. Now whenever a man comes to the door he becomes savage and she has been told she may have to get rid of him. How sad. When we hear things like this it is beyond belief. How could any human being do this??? What sort of cowardly POS would do something so horrible. It is the same with our WSs. We could not imagine for a moment they would do something so evil to US.

We don't ask what did the lady do to deserve this? We don't blame her for walking alone - she trusted the world!!! We don't say "She should have realised she was in danger because she was helpless, she shouldn't have had her purse in plain sight, she should have known from the news that there are evil people who do things like this...she should have seen the red flags (druggies will do anything for money, young people don't care about old people), ... she shouldn't....she should have realised....."

She's a victim just like us. She did NOTHING to deserve this. To say she is in any way responsible is sick. You know that. And our sich's are the same. We are NOT responsible!!!!

I had a huge red flag 22yrs ago. I had a 2 yr old and the day I miscarried my H went to "visit a friend". I found him with her. About 6 yrs later he "disappeared" for a few days. He always seemed to have to work evenings and when he was home never did any chores in the house - the breakfast dishes were still on the sink when I got home! Where were his lunch plates?? Why did he seem to take forever to get jobs done on the farm? He gaslighted me and I fell for it!!! Talk about red flags!!! I could look back and say it's my fault he got away with it for all these years. Well it's not. I will NOT be held responsible for him being a sick human being. He did what he did and the INFIDELITY IS ALL HIS FAULT!!!!!

Your H's behaviour is all his fault and it is NOT your fault that you missed the clues. They are masters of deception who use our good qualities - our trusting natures - against us to get away with their sick behaviour. If we had been less trusting they would have just been more careful!!! If we had expressed our suspicions they would have just come up with clever lies to cover their behaviour. We were as innocent as that blind lady who trusted the world.

HUGS

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, February 25th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Laura and Dip.

I'm just going through some old papers. Seems WH kept every god damned receipt the year before we got married. (we dated for 4 years). He did confess to cheating while we were dating, but I'm came across about 4 receipts for hotels for that year. Triggers??? Hell yes. I want to throw the whole lot out and not go throught them, but I found some stuff I really need and are important, so I have to go through it. For God's sake, he even kept receipts for McDonald's and Burger King!!!

Laura, I know what you mean, it's just that I feel I purposely put on blinders and lived in my own little world. I am smart... but my heart took over and I trusted too much.

He used and abused my good nature.

Did he care about me? I guess so, but I'm realizing that the true mature love I really believed he had for me, he did not have, nor do I think he is capable of it. I don't believe he loves anyone that way, even OW.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:41 AM, February 26th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest:

So, I'm not only mad and betrayed by him, I betrayed myself (and my older sons too) and that's the hardest thing to deal with.

Ok. I hardly know where to start with this statement.
I'm chalking a lot of this up to Catholic guilt. Lol.

You didn't betray yourself. Everyone here did the same thing. Did we all have red flags waving. Of course. Hindsight is 20/20. Pisses me off I didn't follow up on things too, but I am completely at peace knowing that it wasn't stupidity or some unconscious desire to trick myself into believing my H, but rather, THAT IS WHAT IS NORMAL. You are supposed to trust your spouse. And, when something doesn't seem right, and they explain it away so convincingly, we are supposed to believe it because trust, fidelity, commitment, etc. is at the very core of marriage, something all of us here obviously believe in very strongly.

Ok. Your older boys. How old were they when you had your kids with Mr. Dishonest? I don't believe they were little and it's up to you if you want to share more or not, but I don't for a second believe you did anything to betray your kids. Moms second guess, scrutinize and guilt ourselves over our kids because we can't ever seem to give enough to them. From what you've told me, your older kids are good people and very supportive of you. I think they would be rolling their eyes in disbelief if they read your statement (and you know it.)
Sigh.
You've really exhausted me now.
Lol.

ETA: Excellent post Laura. (Dip - I know you are very sensitive about these things, so I will give you an honorable mention, but you need to have more venom and at least more CAPITALS in your responses if you want shout outs. Lol.)

Honest: I responded before reading everything (cuz I was so mad), so I'm glad to see you have turned your head around, so I'm going to let that "selfish" comment you made earlier go.

The receipts. Damn. A blessing and a curse.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 6:49 AM, February 26th (Saturday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 7:22 AM, February 26th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest - don't beat yourself up. We all trusted our spouses, we all believed their lies, we all saw "red flags".

I know for me deep down, I thought my H loved me and would never do something so deceitful. Hell, he even put my health at risk.

Did he care about me? I guess so, but I'm realizing that the true mature love I really believed he had for me, he did not have, nor do I think he is capable of it. I don't believe he loves anyone that way, even OW.

I also think this is true about my FWH.

Honest - we are all intelligent people who were duped by the ones who were supposed to love us, honor us and protect us. Yes, your H also took advantage of your good nature just as mine did. Shame on them. Laura is right...your H is a fucktard. I'd like to take the bunch of them and put them all on an island together. It would be called the "Island of Waywards".

Imagine a bunch of liars, cheats and dishonest wayward spouses all living together? They could really fuck each other over good!!


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, February 26th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest-
I agree with Allgood about your older sons.
They sound like such wonderful, grounded, kind and considerate men.That says a lot about you as a mom! You did a great job and I'm sure that they would agree.
You trusted your STBX and you folllowed your heart.
The older boys have a great relationship with their younger siblings.

I know its hard not to focus on the mistakes of the past but you still have a lot of living to do.
All of your sons need you.
They want to see a happy, healthy, peaceful mom.

Your STBX (that's what I'm calling him from now on) is a narcissistic selfish man.
And you're right...he may not be capable of loving anyone in the truest sense because IMHO love means being unselfish.

Think of this spring as a new beginning....
Today is the first day of the rest of your life.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, February 26th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood.

Thanks for the advice and the honorable mention. You are right. I am a sensitive type guy. Can't fool you!

nofun.

Island of Waywards.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, February 26th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest,
Better day today? Ditto what everyone else said.

I knew something was wrong with Mr. Nell during the dark days of his double-life; hell, I even asked the "are you having an affair" question. He chose to tell me part of his problems (stress, anxiety, questioning his trajectory in life) and I actually tried to help him.

Do I feel like a complete and utter fool when I realize that I fully believed the words of a narcissistic liar? Hell yeah. But I was doing what I was supposed to do. I asked questions and believed the answers. I tried to support the liar and show compassion and understanding. I'm harder now, much less compassionate. But more understanding. I understand because my eyes are wide open now. It's a pretty ugly view, but it's the actual world I live in. So now I get to deal. Yay, me.

Allgood (and others),

It's trusting that he's got my back, thinking about me first, trusting that he is what he says he is in every way.

I do not believe any of this to be true of Mr. Nell, regardless of any extramarital porking activities. Remember that I'm fact- and logic-driven, so this belief comes from his actions over many, many years.

I now have to decide what to do about this.

While "Island of Waywards" is okay, "Island of Fucktards" has a better ring to it. Or "Isle de Cogidatardes" if you like the Spanish better.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, February 26th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Isle de Cogidatardes
Best laugh I've had in days!! I like the spanish version because it's like we at LTA have our own private joke.

I knew something was wrong with Mr. Nell during the dark days of his double-life; hell, I even asked the "are you having an affair" question. He chose to tell me part of his problems (stress, anxiety, questioning his trajectory in life) and I actually tried to help him.

Get this...we even went to MC!! Of course FWH couldn't be honest even with the MC, much less me, and stopped going after a few sessions. I kept seeing her to "work on myself" for several months.

Honest - we're all right there with you, feeling foolish, embarrased and sometimes ashamed of how gullible we were. But we're not the ones that broke our M vows.

Hope this weekend is good for the Tribe. Working on taxes in my house...ugh!

[This message edited by strongish at 9:28 AM, February 26th (Saturday)]


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, February 26th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you everyone for having my back with this!!!
It was those stupid papers and the red flags even before we were married and then finding out he cheated then. I wasn't going to marry him, and he did his sweet talking and explanations about how he takes marriage vows seriously, etc.

Christ, it's like my whole marriage was false R!!!

WOW.

About my older sons, Allgood. They were 12 and 16 when I married WH. They were 20 and 24 and on thier own when I started going overseas. NJgal, you are right about their relationship with their younger siblings. I am truly, truly blessed with how they love each other.

Thank you everyone
{{{{Nell, Dip, Strongish, Allgood, NJgal, nofun, Laura}}}

Everyone here is amazing!!


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, February 26th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Isle de Cogidatardes

Si!

(I have now exhausted my Spanish vocabulary. No, wait - I do know how to order beer in Spanish due to my honeymoon in Mexico.)


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, February 26th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Isle de Cogidatardes

i do not speak spanish, at all...took it for 3+years and cannot speak nor understand it...so i will assume this means

fucktard island or island of the fucktards...

now this island needs to be eqipped to handle these duly noted fucktards...so i'm thinkin that this place needs a place to eat....complete with shit and crow on the menu

they need a bank for money....and i am thinkin the currency needs to be in cowchips

postal office....well since the letters need to be sent overseas...carrier pigeon should do....

medical help: unprotected unlicensed people who always wanted to be doctors im thinkin....

dental: who needs teeth...their biting days i think need to be over

grocery: well for the incidentals...food would be taken care of in that fine dining restaurant...toiletries....nah, they don't need them since they are all in the same boat so to speak...they could smell each other forever....we already smelled them long enough...

clothing: why bother, it only serves to waste time...they needs to be nakid i think....its time they shed their outer layers to show who they really are...oops, thats mental layers...just the same...layers are layers....

and as for the discussion or should i say thepointing out about how we should have known....whats the point, we didn't, we trusted period...can't change it, learn from it and place blame where it rightfully belongs...with the fucktard of course....

ok, need to go make some tea...maybe think rationally...nah no rational for me right now, just a headache....

oh, yesterday i was feelin really not happy with pfm, and all i could think of was that i could not stand him, then i realized that thats everyday.....need to find some hobbies to occupy my mind when i am home and he is too.....is it illegal to target practice on spouses...even if we use something non life threatening...like cowchips....oh no don't want to touch those...then maybe i could shoot rubberbands at him all day....really thick ones....those give just little bites....so maybe a thousand or so a day.....

maybe i should go make that voodoo doll now....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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