Saying I will not stay if my needs are not met may result in a truly repentant spouse exceeding expectations.
Nell oh Nell, wed bells are in hell,
Now shrapnel and eggshells, she needs it dispelled.
Her anger at yell, it leads to dwell, it comes with no quell.
No, Nell is not well.
Sir Nell was not morel, but now is compelled
He must only jell or it will foretell, Nell to expel.
If it still smells, it will be farewell
Nellís rendezvous rebel, her agreement repelled.
if you stick to haiku it won't take all of lunch to write.
Lovely, caring Nell
Jailed by her husband's passions
Yet still laughing away
Ta da! 2 minutes. Helps that haiku doesn't have to rhyme.
I think I'd better get back to work.
Ats, this was very well said. It is conducive to a real relationship, not just doing "things" on a check list, but open to discussion and communication on how things are going.
Since dday, my M requires an ongoing renewal of commitment.
This is the key that many of us let go. We rationalized bad behavior to "Oh our Spouse is having a bad day" or "they are stressed at work" etc, instead of stepping up and saying, "Tell me what's wrong. And even if x,y, z is wrong, it doesn't excuse your bad behavior towards me"
We didn't set those kinds of boundaries before.
Strongish: A checklist doesn't work, although there may be some things WH got into a habit of doing that he doesn't realize that could change, but those are minor things. I think we want to see a major change in ATTITUDE. To see a desire to want to make it better, even though they may still make mistakes. We see that in Mrs. Ats. She is trying, and makes mistakes and at times reverts back to old behaviors, but her DESIRE to get better and her remorse are clear.
Allgood, I just want to shake Mr. Nogood! It's almost as if he thinks this is another threat that you'll back down. It's like he wants to make a few changes and say "See, I did it" and go back to the old routine. He doesn't realize that the old marriage is over and he must work with you to create a new one.
M3: I really admire you!! You have made some fantastic pro-active plans on moving ahead. There are so many positives to look forward to!!
These are the hardest years physically to deal with when the kids are young. It is emotionally and physically draining. Moving closer to extended family will help. Being able to be at home more will also help greatly.
One tip I'll give you: Don't try to be Superwoman!! It'll just make you resentful. Put priorities on what really needs to be done with the housework. Look, I love to visit my neighbor. Her house is not picture perfect clean and most of the time I sit in the kitchen while she is cooking something with a lot of things on the counters. BUT, it's a warm, inviting HOME. People drop in to visit and laugh. There is music in the background and she laughs and dances to it sometimes. This is what I want to strive for....
The other thing that I found helped with my 2 younger sons was that I occasionally hired a "mother's helper". I hired a young teenager (even a 12-13 year old) to play with one of the kids WHILE I was home so I could do some housework. For example, your bath time...the mother's helper can play with some of the kids (blocks, with toys etc)in the living room while you bathe the others. You are home, the helper is just keeping them occupied.
Nofun: Is your WH in IC? He may be more open to it now that he is starting to open up a bit. His actions look encouraging. He shouldn't wait until May to take meds if he needs them.
It's good that you are concentrating on yourself and what YOU need, and yet you are still open to helping WH. This is very healthy!!
Tryn, I love your poem!!! I am copying it to my file of inspiring quotes and poems.
Miracle: I'm glad you are feeling better. Remember, you have been here for all of us and have helped us all so much. Please vent here and let us help you!!
NJgal, I hope you are enjoying your day. You, too, have helped us all so much and deserve the best!!
For me, I'm working on trying to live and not just surviving.
I finally learned my lesson and will not engage with WH with my feelings or thoughts. That's a first step. My expectations rise, and then he uses it as ammunition to hurt me. I will not give him the power to do that. That is my first detachment.
One baby step at a time.
Looks like they're keeping us government schmucks employed for another 2 weeks so I'd better get back to work.
Nell ponders and grows;
learning, talking and doing.
Man just won't man up.
[This message edited by ImNellNow at 1:13 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday)]
I need you guys, tribe.
I feel like with all this house shopping / selling / etc. that WH is engaging in and pushing, pushing he's trying to force me into making some sort of a commitment. What do you think about that? It's sort of like last year when he was relentlessly pushing buying the expensive boat (which is pretty much the reason why we must now sell the house...) but I didn't care so much about the boat because I wanted to sell the house anyway -- it's the move with me and buy a new house with me part that is bothering me.
I just don't think MrRug-sweeper should get to call the shots here!
Maybe I don't want to move. The whole thing started because I wanted to move to a less expensive house where we live now...
AAAGH. Like I said, time to practice boundaries. I could really use some help clarifying them though.
ETA -- anyone know of any exercises that could help with this?
And I've been thinking of doing the math for together vs. post-nup vs. separation -- when I do that should I consider what he'd have too or screw it.
[This message edited by m334455 at 2:19 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday)]
You're too busy to think. So give yourself X amount of time to do nothing but think. (Meditation.) Put it in your "necessary items" column. I have no idea if you want to move, really, or not... but somewhere in there you know.
Bonus: A house is just a house and there is really no wrong answer. (Except the answer "I didn't want to do it but I did it anyway to make someone else happy.")
Mr. m3 may be gung-ho because it's a project that screams "We're all better and I'm off the hook!" He may want it because (he thinks that) you want it. He may have just sunk his teeth into the idea and he's one of those people who absolutely must do whatever it is he's decided to do... I don't know.
What do you want?
and if something makes you feel uncomfy its usually because there is something wrong with it or you are afraid...
so i would start with that, is what he is pushing you to do something that makes you feel uncomfy and why or is it something that provokes fear in you and why?
i think once you answer both questions you will be able to answer what to do by then choosing the path of least regret putting yourself in a years time and which choice do you wish you would have made.....
on another tangent:
whilst i can understand the point of not wanting to give a checklist out of fear that each item will be checked off as if it were a grocery list.....it really is not...
the 'checklist' is really a list of needs you have...we all have different needs, and we all have different ways we want these needs met...and the person we want to meet these needs cannot possibly know what we want unless we tell them....then its up to them to meet them and meet them on a steady ongoing basis...not where lets say one of your needs it you want to hear i love you everyday, and now he comes home and says it to you and it feel forced, or he says it for a couple of days and then its gone
the needs list is an ongoing process and kind of impossible to fake...he could certainly try going through the motions but you will feel it on whether or not the motions are sincere or forced to push it along....
honest: yes baby steps on detachment is sometimes the only way to do it...one step at a time...."just put one foot in front of the other, and soon you will be walking out the door"...i love that song.....from one of those xmas animated movies...that one and the one on misfits...
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 3:18 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday)]
I do not want to buy another house with him. That's the problem. I just can't get into any more financial entanglements with him. I want our finances 100% separated. I want my own personal debt that I am responsible for at a level I can manage on my salary alone. I need to live within my own means. Particularly because his life insurance lapsed and he hasn't gotten any to replace it. But also because I just don't trust him enough to be that involved with him anymore.
But the #1 thing that my innards are screaming "No! No! No!" to is buying another house with him. Nope. Nope. Nope. I've been financing his toys for too long. I'm sick of it. I want my work to benefit me. He spends every dime I make on boats, cars, fishing, etc. If he would live within his means I could be with my kids all the time. Of course, I could never trust him enough to quit my job now -- but the thought I might someday be able to is just another busted pipe dream.
but now you need to make a decision, or a couple of decisions based on his choices...
will he buy a house in his name only and where does this leave you in all possible circumstances..
is it really better to rent, when there will be no equity, although it can help you make a cleaner break should you divorce
i think that if everything you have tells you no, then let it be NO....it will be one less tie to sever later if you feel the divorce will end up inevitable...
picture yourself 5 years from now m3, picture yourself in 2 ways divorce and married...which choice will you have wished for more in both instances and then weigh them both heavily on which path will the one of least regret
and you have the right after all he's done to call the shots hon...i know i would feel it would need to be my way or no way...and do let the door hit you in the ass on the way out...matter of fact i have already done that with pfm for him to be able to stay here until we are ready to d...
got go pick up boys...
I want to be debt free.
I've been financing his toys for too long. I'm sick of it. I want my work to benefit me. He spends every dime I make on boats, cars, fishing, etc.
I am thrilled to be selling the house. If we broke up I would probably rent another house near here.
I do not want to buy another house with him. That's the problem. I just can't get into any more financial entanglements with him. ...But the #1 thing that my innards are screaming "No! No! No!" to is buying another house with him. Nope. Nope. Nope.
Sounds crystal clear to me.
So, you and your 4 children need a roof over your head. Do you want to rent or own? If you rent, H still fits in your picture. If you want to own, see your comments above.
[This message edited by ladies_first at 4:06 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday)]
another haiku (for Allgood)
WH and/or OW (by Nell)
Lollipop stick somewhere painful.
Thank you. I am now obsessed.
So, m3, then just rent for a while! Did you already find and/or put an offer on a house? Or are you trying to sell first?
I hate when she makes a joke out of something I have told her is important to me. Tonight we started out on the wrong foot with each other. While we were trying to patch it back up, I perceived she was not being honest with her feelings, so I asked for a hug to show she was OK. Twice she made a joke of giving a hug, and then wonders why I am still upset.
I know it is just her way of avoiding intimacy, but I take the risk to ask for what I want to feel secure and she makes a joke of it. This is not the first time, and it is getting old. I explained this to her and we are probably not talking for the rest of the night. She is avoiding and triangulating.
A hug is the simplest thing for most couples, but not us.
It's not for us either Ats...so you aren't alone.
Honest - H is in IC. I was told by my IC not to let him see an IC in this area because we would end up in D. We don't have very good couselors in this area. Very limited. But so far, he likes this guy so he is staying with it. The IC told me that as long as he keeps coming to him, he will try to help him. That's all I can hope for.
Thinking of you Miracle. I know how hard it is and you are tring to be a rock.
H booked a trip to Aruba today. I'm in shock! He actually took the bull by the horns and went to the travel agent.
Just Wow! Do wonders ever cease?
H booked a trip to Aruba today. I'm in shock! He actually took the bull by the horns and went to the travel agent.
I presume this trip is for both of you?
Thats my reality as well - & damn I miss that so much.
DP - You, me and ats want hugs!!!
I know this might sound crazy but when people hug me, I actually savor it. It feels so good to be hugged. It's a human need.