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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 23
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 7:52 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M3:

I've learned that if it isn't an essential task to care for myself or the children or my job -- there is no time to get it done. So be it.

Amen sista.

This type of thinking however is what I believe led to the deterioration of my marriage as I stopped expecting to have anything other than responsibilities, didn't expect to have fun. In short, I stopped enjoying life.

Now I think, delegate, delegate, delegate if it's an essential task.

Also - I'm inspiring you? I'm confused - this must be a cautionary tale. Lol.

Fun: I'm speechless. When is this trip?

Ats: Take it easy cowboy. You know what you're dealing with.
Baby steps.

To all the members of the Haiku subdivision of LTA: Thank you for the entertainment!

H seemed pretty chipper when I came home from work. I wonder if he even read the agreement. I thought seeing this in black and white would've had more of an effect on him. Who knows?


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nofun: Yeah for Aruba!!! That is wonderful news!! I think you'll have a wonderful time!!


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah....FWH and I went to dinner and lo and behold we got into another "discussion." You know these things don't end well. Bottom line is that I think the writing is on the wall. I just don't want to R with this man....not the one that I see now anyway. I loved the man I thought he was...not the one I'm seeing now.

Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 8:52 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The trip is the last week of this month.

I've never been to Aruba. I'm nervous. Just the two of us.

I'm trying to be positive. I want to feel something. ANYTHING!! Instead of dead!


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 9:48 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ATS,

I hate when she makes a joke out of something I have told her is important to me. Tonight we started out on the wrong foot with each other. While we were trying to patch it back up, I perceived she was not being honest with her feelings, so I asked for a hug to show she was OK. Twice she made a joke of giving a hug, and then wonders why I am still upset. I know it is just her way of avoiding intimacy, but I take the risk to ask for what I want to feel secure and she makes a joke of it. This is not the first time, and it is getting old. I explained this to her and we are probably not talking for the rest of the night. She is avoiding and triangulating. A hug is the simplest thing for most couples, but not us.

I've heard of the Victim/Rescuer/Persecutor triangle, but I'm a little confused. Do you mean that she's persecuting you by withholding affection, taunting instead of saying "No, hubby, not in the mood for soothing you with hugs."?


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2113 | Registered: Jun 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:11 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Triangulation as in her focus all shifted to attention to ds15, call to her dd, all excuses to avoid interacting with me. A hug is not a prelude to sex, she controls the sex.

btw, hello ladies first. I will say welcome, but you may predate me here looking at you registration date.

Late tonight I realized part of my issue is a meeting with a local city working group tomorrow. The meeting is within 500 yards of last OM office. She met him there many times, and they had sex there at least 2 times. Each of these meetings prior (3 times) the night before I have been in a bad place. It all disgusts me what she did with them and her reasons. I know she was different then, but tonight I hate this shit.

ETA, Friday there is a work party. Alcohol will be available. The employee who loves me will not be there (fww flagged this a long time ago). The employee who is most like a work-wife to me will be there. I am bringing ds15 to help ensure I do not take advantage of loose boundaries with her at this party. I find myself fantasizing about her, and I know that is not good. I am pretty sure she would welcome increased intimacy in our relationship. I never noticed any of this prior to dday.


[This message edited by atsenaotie at 10:35 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:57 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A hug is the simplest thing for most couples, but not us.

add me to the growing list..somehow ats i think there are alot more of us who feel this way then don't

and for the wanting the hugs...me too, just not from him, not anymore


fun: a trip to aruba....its beautiful there...try not to be so nervous, yes yes yes easier said then done...the boy seems to be growing up and possibly growing a new pair that will hopefully fit well and know their rightful place....


so i say go with it and make the most of it, if it gets too close, go to the casino and drop some monies...

allgood: he does not seem to acknowledge much does he???

i find mr nogood quite fustrating, almost as fustrating as pfm


ats: i agree with allgood, baby steps...and i am glad you are bringing ds for protection from yourself...


ladiesfirst: welcome to our corner of si, tell us your story, i tried to look at your profile and there is nothing there, nor is there anything in your recent posts about your story....

we are a pretty supportive little group, we get chatty here and there and we genuinely try to pull each other up...we are very much like family in here....

tribe: went to a meeting tonite for dd18...a meeting for her trip to italy next week...i am so excited for her....the miracle kids are a travelin bunch, scrawny boy is going to d.c. on friday.....

i want to stowaway with both, and yes yes i will admit it, i really really would love to stow away for the italy trip if i had to pick only one....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 11:00 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Triangulation as in her focus all shifted to attention to ds15

I am bringing ds15 to help ensure I do not take advantage of loose boundaries with her at this party. I find myself fantasizing about her, and I know that is not good. I am pretty sure she would welcome increased intimacy in our relationship. I never noticed any of this prior to dday.

Aren't you triangulating, also? Using DS15 to avoid discussing your "wayward thoughts" with your WW?


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2113 | Registered: Jun 2009
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 11:35 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am bringing ds15 to help ensure I do not take advantage of loose boundaries with her at this party. I find myself fantasizing about her, and I know that is not good. I am pretty sure she would welcome increased intimacy in our relationship.

Ats - your loose boundaries or hers? I can understand thru the lack of attention fron your WW that you do fantasize about her but from what Ive read of your posts I'm somewhat surprised by this action you feel you need to take. If anyone has firm boundaries in place it is you.
If her boundaries are loose you just need to be firm & remind her that its not going to happen.Dont risk all the hard work that you & WW have done so far.

Nofun - drop your guard & have have fun !!!!

[This message edited by deeppurple at 11:36 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday)]


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 3:27 AM, March 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

The gators are giving me hell. I am in charge at work at school at present = all other bosses away.

Aunt is struggling towards the end. She wants to go. Really hard.

Transplant patients going well.

Fun

What can I say? You've come this far. He needed to hit rock bottom to see what he was risking. Maybe this has finally happened. Go with the flow!!!

H continues to try.

HUGS to everyone else. I am reading but don't have time to respond to you all. Know that my love and thoughts are with you all.

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 4:33 AM, March 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats

Keep to your boundaries honey. You know what you need to do. Either we commit to continuing to try to R or bale out.

You told us because you want a 2X4. We love you and want what's best for you.

Stay strong

laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:30 AM, March 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear a few here talk about I told my spouse what I needed. Did you? I wonder what you wrote or said. This is what they need.

We talk about therapy. What this means is treatment to attempted remediation of a problem. Retrouvaille points out in health marriages. Therapy means you must fully understand, work toward, start changing yourself. Each one of us are responsible for ourselves. We cannot control what others do.We can only control ourselves. So what do we need to do?

Be desirable.
These are the Desire Builders – behaviors you must adopt if you want to have a good marriage. Can you imagine if both you and your spouse adopt the below. Control yourself to do the below? It works.

Affirmation – You say things that affirm every day or even several times a day. You need to want to affirm. You say things like, “I love you”, “you look beautiful”, “I enjoyed dinner last night you cook a great meal”, “you are the best at “the good qualities in that person””, “You do a good job supporting our family”, “You are a good father”. Non-verbal affirmations are smiles, head up and down, eye contact, and use touch.

Positive attitude – You say and do things that are positive. “I know we can have a strong marriage” “I want us to have a strong marriage” “I can forgive you” “I will forgive you”

“Present and Future” Focused - This means you try and talk about things now and the future. If I cost the family $100 in extra cash today, we talk it out, we compromise, we try to learn to not cost us $100 in the future. The affairs situations, we accept that evil things can happen to us in life. We set good boundaries for today and into the future.

Communication – TALK. Communication is so important. If you just take an hour of each day just to talk. Do it over a glass of wine after work. Do it over a cup of coffee in the morning. Meet for lunch everyday. Before you go to bed. Just do it.

Fear to hurt another sometimes prevents us from communicating. We must learn how to communicate effectively in these times. It might be in the form of letters, text, and verbal face to face. You must find a comfortable way to say things. Make sure your partner knows you “comfortable” form of communication and not to scare you away from communicating.

As a partner, LISTEN. Do not punish when difficult things are said. Think before attempting a compromise.

Cooperative attitude – This mean, even with you don’t want to, you try.

Forgiveness - First… forgiveness is a choice… It is not a feeling… It is not anything you can or cannot do unless you decide… hell, I don’t want to. You can make your brain do these things…
1) Make the choice to forgive
2) Make the deliberate and irrevocable choice not to tell anyone what they did.
3) Be pleasant to them should you be around them
4) If conversation ensues, say that which would set them free from guilt
5) Let them feel good about themselves (No need to bring up once forgiven)
6) Protect them from their greatest fears (defend them)
7) Keep it up today, tomorrow, this year and next (fight the urge to go backwards)
8) Pray for them


Affection – This is making the effort to hug. MAKING THE EFFORT! It’s simple, you take your hands and wrap them around your spouse. You grab their hand and hold it. You don’t wait for them to come to you, YOU go to them. You do the things you control. Make the move to touch.

Positive “self Talk” - When your self-talk is positive—“Things will work out,” “I know I can do the job”—you’re giving yourself permission to succeed and chances are you will.

Change – It might mean stop drinking. It might mean breaking relationships or those not friendly to the marriage. It might mean moving. It might mean losing weight. It might mean changing the way you take care of kids.

Reliability – When you say you will be their, be their. Make sure you show up to work, show up to pick the kids up. When late, call.

Romance – I think this is most important. Woman are so different than men. Men must somehow learn how to plan, how to warm a woman up, how to make the feel good about themselves, how to want them to desire them. Woman must get to a balance. Balance meaning make sure they stay mentally and physically healthy. I mean hormones. The must feel good about themselves, be open to acceptance, make sure the "NO" is the proper way, communicate the ways.

This topic is so detailed and so important I cannot cover it. So many books are out there. Read them.

Prayer - Prayers are meditation. You mind can have this peace. It’s like you always have somebody watching your back.


These are Desire destroyers

Criticism – Is this your personality? Do you always say things like, “You pig"

Withdrawal – Why do some people go silent.. for weeks. They don’t talk, they push away.

Negative attitude – I can’t do this. I can’t I can’t I won’t

Continuing Negative behaviors – Drinking, drugs, flirting,

No communication – fear to say what you need in a safe way.

No reliance on God or lack of spirituality – Speaks for itself

Holding a grudge – Unable to live today. Unable to forgive.

Name calling

Negative “self talk”
Disrespect

“Must win” Attitude
Living the past

It's up to yourself to R. Nothing wrong with you helping those mis-guided to the right way of treating someone very well. It takes effort.

And as I say, if you share the above, do you part, and you spouse does thier part, you will have a good M.

If one either one fails to do the desirables, your M is not going to be good.

There are people in the world willing, able and will do desirables.

If you fail to be desirable, ask forgiveness, get back on the desirable horse. If you cannot be desirable yourself, then you should not have a partner.

If someone time in and time out cannot be desirable... well make that hard choice.

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:41 AM, March 3rd (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:43 AM, March 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nofun, Your H has given you an olive branch. Maybe it is time to set a goal. Give him those desirables, asked him to think hard about each one. commit you will do the same. commit that if one of you fails, you will give each other a pass as you learn to change.

His communication skills are lacking. Will he ball up, shut up, go silent again? For days? That is a horrible desirable. He has got to NEVER do that again.

And yourself? Be positive! Your a beautiful woman is every way.

Ats... fantasies or different then boundaries. You are not that man. I know it. How about I prescribe the desirable goalset? Can you do it? Can your wife?

This works. Sure, there are days I "feel" not so good about what has happened. But I still do desirables. I come out of the bad "feelings" in a short time. That's my Therapy advice. Learn it. Do it and heal.

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:50 AM, March 3rd (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:49 AM, March 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood: he does not seem to acknowledge much does he???

I asked him about the agreement this morning. And, he is all fired up now about his pension, specifically that if he retires like he wanted to in 2 years he has to give me a huge chunk of his pension check in addition to paying child support.

I'm so pissed right now.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, March 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Much like the advice always given to WSs in the Wayward forum, I am changing FOR ME. You know... the whole "no matter whether your spouse will stay or go, you need to become healthy in order to be happy" thing. So, tryn, when I read your list, I feel pretty proud of myself and pretty sad for my WH and M. And my kids, because WH's actions will affect them.

I think WH knows he needs to change; the problem is that he won't do it. He's got a closet full of self-help books that he bought and never read. He's had 15 years of therapy and has no understanding of himself, rather, he's learned a bunch of tricks to "control anxiety." He can't identify his priorities, his principles, his goals (other than "I want to be rich and not work and go on vacations"). He needs someone to lead him through the wilderness of his mind and heart. He's like pre-Columbus mapmakers... there is this that I can see, then beyond my surface there is nothing... so we'll draw the edges and put some scary man-eating monsters beyond.

Meanwhile, my IC is at a bit of a loss as to what to do with me because I've wandered in the wilderness and mapped out what I've found. So we'll work on my feelings about my M.

Bah. Okay, here are the things I enjoy about WH. He makes double my salary. He and his friend fix stuff around the house. He usually does the dishes. He does some of the childcare, and takes more on when I ask him to. He is fun to chat with; I can make him laugh and every once in a while he makes me laugh. He thanks me for making healthy, tasty meals. He is cute. For the past six months he has made a concerted effort to be present and hold me while giving hugs. He is making efforts to introduce happycouple funtime in our lives. He loves his kids and tells them so.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:55 AM, March 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood, You know the fight is on now. It is war. If you made this choice, then make it 100%. I still say stop loving him. He needs to move. It is going to get too ugly.

That is from all I know.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, March 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ImNellNow

As I read your post, You are in your anger part of your grief. You will come out of it. When you do, it will feel great. It will happen slowly.

Your H needs to keep working on himself, like us all.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:20 AM, March 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood:

mr nogood is finally showing something...and its for his fucking pension....i too would be spitfire mad....

total jerk...it is still all about him, always was and at the rate he is going always will be...

i am so sorry allgood, you do not deserve this....

(((allgood)))

i think we all need to line up to bitch slap mr nogood....i would like to use a cast iron pan for my slap ....

nell: its almost like you are weighing the pros and cons to being with this man....but i ask you this...will you be happy, can you be happy with this man....

can you find a place to put all your negative emotions towards what he did....

you cannot count on this man to change, he is who he is...if he has been in therapy for 15 years it kind of means that he's got issues he may never resolve to change to be the man you want him to be...he has to be the man he wants to be and he needs to work at it, not dabble at it...

and yes yes yes you need to be the best you you can be for yourself and your kids...

we all do.....and if your best you can be happy with mr nell as he is now....go for it...if you will always be wanting...i would say think it over and put yourself out 10 years, your kids are grown about ready to leave on their own....you look across your bed to the man lying beside you....are you looking forward to this time with him...or will you be regretful of so much time spent on someone that does not make you happy...or will you be happy that you did spend the time together as a family and move on to the next chapter of your life without him....


there is no way to know for sure what the future holds for us, to a certain extent though you use your present to figure out your future....and always always have a back up plan for now you know that you seriously can never know every little thing or in our case huge thing that can be lurking around the corner.....

pro's and con's are good to figure out, provided they trump your emotional well being nell......and for some they just might...there are some who would rather stay in an unhappy marriage because the circumstance it allows them is what they need....so circumstance trumps the unhappy marriage

some would rather be poor and alone then be married to someone they no longer love or respect...

some would rather live their lifestyle and settle for companionship then try to put themselves out there, both financially and emotionally

what is your currency...what matters most to you

for me its staying married to a man i no longer want, i need to be mom first and foremost...but i am planning for the day when my kids DO LEAVE or at least finish school...this is my path i freely choose...and its the path of least regret for me...it may not be the path for anyone else, but it sure is the one that is right for me....kwim


ok, long ramble on this over, hoepfully when i read this all back its makes sense and its not a jumbled mess...


((tribe))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, March 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

iwant, you make sense to me. Some people can change, want to change, some don't or cannot.

Nell, I know we say it over and over... but it will sink in... should you stay, you will always cry over what he did. It will always hurt. It is apart of you, your history. You never forget.

But you can make sure you are not treated poorly.

My boundary for example.. I will not be married to someone who shuts me down, goes silent.

When someone stops talking, walks away, this make me feel rejected, angry, needing resolution, etc.. not good feelings. I will not stop trying to communicate, I will warn of the consequences,

"I am not going to live my life facing rejection time in and time out, walking away, controlling me with silence. CHANGE AND FACE ME! Let not be afraid to talk this out and come to agreement! For me, I do it in the form a retrou Q

Allgood, I am sorry to be so tough in this time. I do think you have been in pain for so long, some sort of change for you is needed. It is worth the search to seek peace again.

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:02 AM, March 3rd (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, March 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn: great post. I printed it out to reread it.

Nofun, I agree with Tryn, print out his post and let your WH read it. It can't hurt!

Don't have much time now, but want to give BIG hugs to {{{{{{{{{Allgood}}}}}}}

Hugs to all
{{{Nell}}}
{{{{{Miracle}}}}
Praying for your aunt Laura.
Ats, you know the boundaries, you know what to do.

{{{{{tribe}}}}


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