How are you feeling today?
Still keeping you and yours in my prayers... don't know the Hail Mary (we "frozen chosen" don't play that) but I hope personal words will do.
That 1 percent is a slippery little sucker.
I feel scared to love, trust, get close, to open more wounds from my past, to feel dependant, to open my soul up to you, to feel like I could lay down my life for you, to experience joy – because it will be fleeting. To feel a bond and closeness because it will end, to feel anything at all, because it will end in pain, distance, disconnect. No highs, no lows. No love, no loss. You have trust issues for me, I have trust issues for you and pretty much everyone in my life. I really struggle with moving in and out of good days and bad days, between euphoric love and contentment to disconnect and disappointment. Sometimes I feel you struggle with the same things, we have closeness, then you have insecurities and doubts, thus the lapsing into unanswered questions about the affairs. I clearly see it as a pattern. May I be you for a minute? “I feel so close to her, I really love her, wow, that feels so scary, what if I let her down, what if she lets me down, I can’t risk getting close to her again, she wounded me, I better remember what she did to me, I need to go back and look at all the details, find all the missing pieces, I will protect myself by doing that.” This helps me understand the dynamics and understand what is going on. Am I happy about discussing the past, no, do I think it is therapeutic, no. Not to cover up and avoid it but not to give it energy, not to make it into a monster, not to use the past to avoid being in the moment, not to use the past as reason to keep from making progress moving forward towards a really happy future. There are times I look at you and I see such love and feel such hope, such promise, then there are other times like last night and this morning, I look at you and I see a stranger, a person I don’t remember knowing, a stranger in my life, I look into your eyes and I don’t know you or who you are – blank, no connection, no feeling. That is not what I want not again. I want to move forward in love and continue to build our relationship. I feel as if I need to proceed cautiously to avoid intense highs and work more towards middle “normal” ground, not having the “bi-polar” roller coaster relationship with intense ups and downs. Love the “mania” but hate the “depression” when it happens.
She also asked if this was my way of finding an excuse to end the M, as though I need anymore excuse.
Since yesterday she has withdrawn, no touching, very little communication, keeping herself busy with the boys. We are back to the superficial communication. A big part of this is her codependency on me, something her IC is to be working on, but last week she cancelled her IC that was scheduled for tomorrow to see the dentist instead.
So, as long as there are no difficulties and I am happy, we have a great relationship. If I show anger or sadness, we get the above. This is the exact same dynamic for our entire M, I just did not realize it until after dday.
I liked her email.
I think it reveals some serious though by her and a pretty accurate description of what both of you are probably experiencing.
If her email is accurate, then the 2 of you have the same fears, no one wants to risk getting hurt further.
Granted - I think there is very little we as BS can do regarding the Ups & Downs - some of us are better at concealing at others, but they are there nonetheless. I can see that as a source of legitimate concern and frustration from a WS standpoint.
I think she is reaching out to you for comfort and to be reassured.
What do you think?
Don't get me wrong, I think that you have done an incredible job of trying to make sense of the mess she created....but at some point you also want to know that things are moving forward...that you can "stand down" some and let her be the strong one for a change....let her carry the heavy load of R for just a little while....and she may never be able to do that.
I urge you to read "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay." I'm almost done with it and it has shown me that in my sich FWH not the only one that has screwed up in my M. I can see how some of my behaviors hurt him too. Of course none of those warranted his having an A, but it did give me a more realistic view of our M before DDay.
AND it has been another way for me to gain acceptance and "permission" to leave this M. Although in my head I know that that is the right decision, for me, right now, I need that reassurance.
[This message edited by strongish at 8:40 AM, March 10th (Thursday)]
I agree with Allgood. Your W is reaching out and looking for help. I think she does "get it" about why you are feeling like you do but she can not handle the bad that she has caused. Add that feeling to all the bad that has happened to her and it is overwhelming to her.
You say that you are surprised at how fragile any positive relationship is with her. The first few lines of that email show that she is in much fear. She is afraid that things will not be good all the time. She is having trouble with being happy because as she said it is "fleeting". Keep working with her. She is trying. You can not change many things, but you can help her.
Hugs to the tribe.
this email IS her opening up her deepest fears to you....
and did you ever think that this is in some warped way a test to see if you will still be there....
she references her "bipolar" tendencies...also another amazing acknowledgement...
i love the way she references your take on the affairs....from her pov
ats, take a deep deep breath (seems to be the mantra of late) and separate yourself if possible and look through the eyes that love this woman, look through the eyes of someone who is standing beside his wife and supporting her through it all.....
being married to mrs ats means standing beside her, becomming her soft place to fall, NOT TO BE A PLACE OF TORTURE......but a place of healing...she has to heal from all she has suffered....and without her healing there will be no final healing of your marriage...unfortunately because of her issues she needs to heal herself before she can help you on the final legs of your healing...this is who she is, and as much as she would like to change it...its a process that she is indeed working on....
so this is another one of those dips for her....so will you step back or will you impede both her healing and your own....
and i know it sucks, its not fair...she is the one who cheated and it should not be up to you to do this...but it is the way it is for the 2 of you.....
and this is one of those instances where do you want to be right or do you want to be happy kind of thing...
i said this to you a long long time ago...you are a special man to sign up for this, i know i could do never do this....but then again i did not have a happy time to reference where i was the priority, not even for a day!!! let alone months and years....
remember take a step back....
Seems a few here are going through the mill. It’s hard to make those decision changes when you thought you were making the right ones for the right reasons in the aftermath of d-day. But things are constantly shifting and you have to “adjust your sails” when the wind changes direction.
Stay focused. Remember we do things for ourselves now – the FWS is a consideration, not the main concern.
Hugs to all (and fellow lurkers!)
I agree with you again!
You should try being me. I would be happy with the 1 percent. I usually score in the .0001 percent range.
[This message edited by old dipstick at 9:12 AM, March 10th (Thursday)]
strongish, you are right on;
....but at some point you also want to know that things are moving forward...that you can "stand down" some and let her be the strong one for a change....let her carry the heavy load of R for just a little while....
I feel I have carried this relationship for so long.
....and she may never be able to do that.
I reassure my wife, I reassure my employees, and I am the ever-watchful sentinel over my kids giving them the freedom to fail, but ensuring they do not end up in a position where they fail badly and irreparably hurting themselves. I nod and make nice conversation with my parents when they say the stupid stuff that apparently all old people learn to say (for instance Obama is a “Moooslim” according to my Mother). I think I am getting tired.
At some point, I would like to be OK. Instead of people, being upset because I forgot or did something to a level less than their expectation, how about giving me the benefit of telling me I am not bad and could be worse? Clearly, trying to do the right thing is not the answer.
Sigh, must be the crappy weather today. I was supposed to be in the field diving today, and instead here I am at my desk.
and sometimes you really do have to let them fall on their faces so that they learn what they need to learn.....and then help them up, show them how to dust themselves off, (of course you need to wait to be asked)...and then move on to the next one...
there will be times though that you will have to let them fail and not pick them up...because that is what they need to do for themselves...the trick i think is to recognise when that is....always loving, but not always fixing....
and i know this battle within...because i too am a fixer...want to make everything better....and a control freak to boot to a certain extent...not a good combo...but i am learning...
and i am glad you reached out to mrs ats....you two really do love each other and are struggling through this together....and that will go along way in helping you both heal...
At some point, I would like to be OK.
In me news:
Hard to look at my H in that I still am very attracted to him and miss the attention I was getting from him - miss the hope that I would have my husband and my kids and be happy one day.
He's got a lot of good qualities and it's easy to forget all the bad ones (selfishness, immaturity, no depth or ability to emotionally support me, etc.) when we are not in R.
Like, I have no expectations right now, so I'm not in a constant state of pissed-offedness by his inaction. He's just a fun, good looking guy.
So, with that mindset, I spoke briefly with him this morning about whether he was confident that our breaking up was the way to go. He said he wasn't. Says he wants to stay together but it doesn't seem like we are going to be unhappy. Apparently he's been unhappy the last few months because he sees it getting worse,not better.
I briefly explained that a) If he had attempted to learn anything about this, his expectations would be a bit more realistic; and b) I don't understand why he cannot connect the dots between his current behavior and my current attitude.
Told him I've said everthing I can think of too many times, but if he wants to open up and talk, I will listen.
Yes, you are hurt beyond any song you hear on the radio.. beyond what anyone can compare.
You have it within yourself to acknowledge this hurt... It is within you and will be with you until the day you die. It stings less and less with time.
Now you also have it within yourself to forgive. It is now your decision to move from the acceptance to making the decision to forgive.
Let me remind you what that is...
- It is a choice and decision
- It is never making your W feel guilty again. EVER
- Start letting go being the victim.
- Make a decision to trust again.
- Having faith that tomorrow will take care of itself.
- Forgive without guarantee of what will happen
- Want you W to forgive herself and allow her not to feel guilty
- Make this forgiveness and all those task of forgiving a life long commitment to yourself.
- Refuse to punish her about this forever
- Not tell what she has done with the purpose of hurting her
- Be merciful.
- Gracious by what you don't say, even if what you could say is true.
BTW.. It's ok to tell her you forgive her. Say it's a process and you might slip. But you will say you are sorry for slipping and start all over again.
It really feels good that I forgave my W. Come join the club.
Heck, you think my W is always perfect? no way. She says things I must bite my tongue. Think long about what I say not to reminder her of her sins. It's not always easy.
I'm sure I missed a few but you get the picture...
Just My thoughts and opinions...
[This message edited by trynhard at 10:21 AM, March 10th (Thursday)]
It's hard not to take her behavior personally. You are doing everything in your power to help her. But do not take what she is saying about her fears personally.
It's her demons that she is fighting.
There is a lot of co-dependent thinking and feeling going on here. It's totally understandable.
Ats, step back and don't try to help her fix herself. You can be there to support her, but she has to do the fixing and she is so desperately trying to do it.
But, you know what? I think at this point, she is ready to support you too. You sharing your fears, is a good thing. Remember feelings are feelings, not facts. You both are afraid because of things in the past, but that doesn't necessarily mean that between the two of you the fear needs to continue.
Perhaps it's time for the two of you to make a decision to TRUST.
A desision to TRUST that the other person will not hurt the other again.
I think this will be hard for the both of you. Her because of her great FOO issues, and you because of her past A's.
But making the decision to fully trust that you guys will have the other's interest at heart and that you will not hurt each other is an investment in the future.
I want to thank everyone for your support. This is a new thing for me, and self doubt still eats at me, but I will try my best to be strong and be my own ally and to trust in myself.
Dip -- sorry, but I just imagine you floating on a lounger in the cabana boy's pool with a drink with a little umbrella in it confidently watching the circling gators ...
ATS -- I am currently praying a novena to St. Terese that I will get some sort of a note like the one you just got from your wife. So, please, consider our perspectives in seeing it for the gift it is.
Strongish -- I really did like that book too. I've been spending time thinking about it and also in my reading of that and on Boundaries trying to concentrate on myself and my contributions, etc.
Tryn -- your post about forgiveness is the explanation for why I no longer open these feelings up to my husband. I have been disheartened to read over and over here on SI that the BS will never truly be free of the pain, but so be it. I do everything on that list and I have done all of those things since I told WH that I forgave him last year -- but it's that making the decision to trust that keeps really grating on me. I no longer check WH's stuff -- well, I did check the phone bill when he suddenly decided to get rid of the two e-mail addresses he still had that OW would have known about -- but that's the first tiem I've checked anything since last Sepetember. Anyway -- it's making that decision to trust.
My nanny/BFF is most likely going to stay here and marry her boyfriend when we move. We were talking about our reservations about these changes in our lives and I finally said -- maybe what we need to do is just have dinner with your BF and my WH and I'll say "look guys, if nanny marries boyfriend and I move with WH and then nanny is going to find XGF's # on BF's phone (little problem they had a few months ago...) and I'm going to find WH holed up in the Comfort Inn with OW again, maybe we could just skip a step here and nanny and I can move in together and you two can find some other women to put up with that shit..."
For all the newbies, nanny/BFF was orginially OW's nanny (love my soap-opera world)
In a lame-ass NC violation moment I peeked at a blog OW participates in the morning and saw she's still having hot flashes!!!! Not to be mean to those dear tribe members who are older than me, but it was sickly satisfying to see that -- ha ha! I know, I shouldn't look, I shouldn't care -- it's just nanny and I were talking about the changes, etc. and then I got all mad for the millionth time that OW used to hit nanny and then I was fantisizing about bashing her mustang apart with a baseball bat -- jeesh. The sun really needs to come out. Anyway, it's been a good 3 years since OW started menopause . . . and, yes, it gives me some sick satisfaction that she's menopausal while nanny and I are still quite young. Dumb bitch. I'm not sure if the "dumb bitch" if for me or OW. And you know what? It is NOT misplaced anger. OW betrayed me personally and nanny two in ways that have absolutely nothing to do with the A per se.
Aaagh. I agree with ATS. The sun really needs to come out.
OK -- so, I'm mostly signing on to tell you all that I am giving up Internet (except for a few minimal things I have to do for my job) for Lent. I am going to do my novena, practice stewardship in my life as much as possible, with an emphasis on myself, my work, my kids and my marriage, and I'm going to try to attend Mass more often than weekly.
So, I wish you all a happy and healthy early Spring, and I will "see" you (probably in LTA 25 or 26 by then!) after Easter.
I am printing out tryn's list though. Lent is as good a time as any to try it tryn's way.
Peace be with you.
If you are still here, can't you give up something for lent besides the internet? I'm giving up those thin mint girl scout cookies.
Hugs to the tribe.
Dip: revoking your man card! That's funny!