O- and someone asked about my "talk" with H. All I said was thank you for the gift and card and that I loved him too. I followed that up this morning by telling him that whether we love each other is not the issue, it's the other stuff, which he says he knows.
Looking, why am I suprised that you are so far out from your DDay? Hm. I guess because your WH is still so deep in the fog?
And, allgood, I meant to tell you that I really want a seat in the car when you take the road trip you discussed in the last house. I'll even pitch in for gas and bring the rope. K?
Glad to hear you are in for the road trip, but first I have to figure out some legal loopholes so that we don't all wind up imprisoned. Lol.
First want to thank deeppurple, ImNellNow, UKGirl, nofun, fnf, m334455, ats, old dipstick, and LookingforLove for the warm welcomes.
Thanks to all the tribe who looked at my profile and said the OW in my sitch was a POS. That makes me smile and feel very happy for some odd reason.
fnf - no, I don't mind at all that you posted my quote, in fact I appreciate that you did that. I appreciate your thoughtful comments and thought on this, also.
m334455 - didn't think you were rambling, and I understand your points and agree with you.
ats - your post was very helpful to me.
Describing your FWW and how she felt with her OM sounds like my FWH.
Speaking as a man, NSA sex on my terms would be a powerful attractant. I would not need a lot of emotion to engage and continue if I were to allow myself to go there.
and from fnf -
and I do believe she made it so easy for him to use her that there was no need to give more
This sounds like my FWH's A, or at least how he explains it to me. He treated his OW just like njgal480's FWH did.
My husband never told the OW that he loved her.....he never bought the OW any kind of gift, not a flower, not a card....nothing....and he is a big gift giver.
It is so funny that fnf picked that quote out of my profile because on Sunday night FWH and I just talked about this again. And he once again stated he never loved her, never told her that etc., etc. I was feeling somewhat foolish because I believe him, or at least starting to believe that could be true. That he really had no feelings for her. Infatuation at first, but that wore off pretty fast, and yes he cared about her, but not anywhere near love.
Thanks, tribe, for all the pov and wisdom about *love and the AP*, it has helped me alot.
trynhard - enjoyed the translation of your V D card.
honesttoafault - enjoyed your poem.
old dipstick - I think I'm a vanilla milkshake, at least in the winter
"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson
To all those who's spouses know what they did, are no longer in the A and trying to make it right, that's great and I applaud them for realizing what really matters...
And HUGS to those of you who are struggling and see no hope for the marriage- I am right there with you....
Thank GOD VDay is over--it was a first with no gift/card or acknowledgment whatsoever...and it was really hard knowing that what he would have given me, he gave her...just another nail in the coffin...
Tryn--Thanks for the thoughts as I am trying to stay positive and that there is light at the end of the tunnel and a man that is worthy of me...
Imnell--I use to say that my H is in the FOG but no more..he has been doing this with same OW for 5+ years and knows exactly what he is doing and the hurt it has caused..so this is reality for him and me as well...
No more DDays for me as I know it's going on and won't change...it's way past time for me to move on....
My H is not someone you can tell anything to..you have to show him and that's exactly what I am doing....
[This message edited by LookingforLove at 11:17 AM, February 15th (Tuesday)]
Thanks to all the tribe who looked at my profile and said the OW in my sitch was a POS. That makes me smile and feel very happy for some odd reason.
Validation. You see, when a person acts that outrageously, you think you must not have experienced what you think you experienced because that would just be NUTS.
You will be healed when it no longer makes you happy/feel validated for someone to agree with this. Work towards indifference.
Mr.M3 gave me a beautiful gift and a CARD -- which is really unusual. It was a funny card, no sappy, but I like that so even better!
I did not do as great.
Our romantic evening was cut short byt Sunshine tossing his cookies everywhere three times. Poor litte guy (he's 22 months for the newbies.)
Remember for those trying R to compare today to 2 months ago and 4 months ago each time you think about progress. Even a little progress in a few months is a good thing. As we say here LTA=long term recovery.
Like I said before, I really think he feels he's in love and this is what's going to make him happy....
So he needs to grab his happiness and FUCK everyone else (me and kids included)...
Sorry for the rant guys--I guess it is the aftereffects of VDay...
[This message edited by LookingforLove at 12:55 PM, February 15th (Tuesday)]
I would like nothing better for my H to grow a brain and get his head out of his ass but I don't think that's going to happen...
i think in your sich waiting for him to change would be a mistake.....he has not acknowledged that change is necessary...aside from that he is treating you horribly and you need to deal with WHAT IS, not what could be....the what could be may never be......
if your ws does remarkably begin to change, then and only then i would suggest taking a second look at it, but until you see, really see any change...stay your course....
and rant away whenever you need...we all have all been there, and we all i am sure will be there many times over...and it does help to get it out...so rant away whenever you need...
I was feeling somewhat foolish because I believe him, or at least starting to believe that could be true.
first and foremost you have nothing to feel foolish about, ever....do not underestimate what learning all we have learned has done to us emotionally....and its ok to learn to trust, as matter of fact its more the ok, it what you really want...and i understand the trepidation....i understand it all too well.....so i say when you feel wary to believe, ask yourself is it because of fear or is it because of your gut telling you otherwise....its a big difference between the 2...fear can cripple us, try to let it rule your decisions...but use it to keep you on your toes..
but first I have to figure out some legal loopholes so that we don't all wind up imprisoned.
fine, i will wait!!!
nell: i am glad your ws peeked out from his ass to do right!!!
and i think i would be an honor to ride with you....
I'm very confused this morning. Woke up 1.5 hours before my alarm and can't stop the "thinking." What to do? What to do? Do I stay in this M or not? What am I afraid of?
what to do: simple...nothing til your ready...take the pressure off yourself to make a decision and you will make your decision when you are ready and not a moment sooner....
you do first have to decide your dealbreakers, knowing that if he breaks them its over...then you need to decide your needs in this "new"marriage that needs to be created....and from that you will decide....does he meet every need, is he at least trying, do you see progress, steady progress,...or does he still treat you badly....will you settle or will you move on....lots and lots of decisions...take each one, one at a time...and allow his actions or non-actions to take the lead in which way you turn...
He's there now and our grandson is with me today, asking for Papa. DD's daycare-sitter is away on vacation til the end of the month so I have Dgs, my little ray of sunshine, 2 days this week and 2 next week. His dad emailed me a photo from Saturday's bath time with the caption "Wanna be my Valentine?" S-i-L is a keeper!
Belated welcome to the LTA newbies. Sorry you have reason to be here but glad you found this supportive forum. It's been a warm & safe haven many times.
Nap time will be over soon so til later... love yourselves, LTA tribe.
that is way cool of your sil.....and i am really happy that you have that bit of sunshine this week....it's timing is perfect....so concentrate on your angel,kkk
No I am not waiting for him to change. I have wasted too many years as it is...I need to move on and I am taking steps to do that....
Granted, I am taking it slowly and one day at a time but at least I am going forward....
Tryin- all that you say abou your FWW is true of my FWH as well.
He just stayed focused on saving the marrriage and he refused to give up.
He took everything that I threw at him (and early on there were plenty of things that I literally did throw at him!).
He got my attention-soon after d-day when he stopped by the house to pick up some more clothes etc and I noticed that he was not wearing his wedding ring.
I had taken mine off immediately after d-day.When I mentioned it to him - he said that he took his ring off because he realized that he had disgraced everything that it stood for.
I started to get an inking then...that he 'got it'.
He understood how awful his betrayal was.
We were separated for 6 months post d-day ( I kicked him out of the house).
He could have turned to the OW but he didn't. He could have given up and started drinking even more but he didn't.
Instead, he got sober,started seeing a IC, and attended 90 AA meetings in 90 days.
He also continued to email me and call and leave messages every day asking for forgiveness and pleading to come home.
He knew that I had gone off the deep end and had contacted lots of his co-workers, the OW, the OWs BH. He knew I told our kids, family , friends.
Some men run away from all of the shame and embarassment. He stayed and faced the music and fought to save the marriage.
Even with my husband doing all of these positive things I still questioned my decision to reconcile every day.
Initially, I kicked him out and started interviewing divorce lawyers. I filed for divorce.
My FWH knew about this but still insisted on fighting for the marriage.
I ended up withdrawing the divorce complaint and agreeing to try MC.
That was the beginning of my journey to healing and recovery form the trauma of the LTA.
It is traumatic and I definitely had PTSD symptoms.
I am 4 yrs post d-day and it has really only been in the last few months that I have felt a real sense of peace.
So, even with all the intensive IC, MC, etc. time is a big part of the healing process.
My FWH is a retired military officer. He took the oath of "I will not lie, cheat or steal." to heart, at least I thought he did. He took that oath in college, before I ever met him and always, and I mean always, stressed to our kids how important honesty is. Fast forward to post-DDay. He took off his college ring, the one that symbolized that oath. He took it off when he finally acknowledged that he did "deceive" me. (He still wants to insist that he never actually LIED since it was lies of omission. But I digress.....) So he takes the ring off and left it off for a few months. Then he puts it back but on the other hand. I ask him about it and he says that having it on the opposite hand than he was used to, is a reminder that he was not honest. So....last week I notice that the ring is back on it's original finger. No explanation from him as to why or when he put it back....it's just there. I noticed it but waited until we were with the MC to bring it up. He starts talking about how it was getting caught on things being on the "wrong" hand, etc. My point is that he is still working his own program and keeping his own thoughts to himself. He said that it wasn't a big deal. So, we're back to minimizing the deception. It's getting real old.
We talked a little tonight on the phone. (Yep, he's out of town again.) He said that he had an epiphany last night. He realized that during our M I counted on him to be my main support, since my FOO can be really screwed up. He just realized that his A left me feeling without that sense of support. I've told him this over and over, how his A and the lying felt like he abandoned our M and me, but after 7 mos. he's just now "hearing" me, or maybe he's just now in a place that it could sink in. On one hand I'm pleased to see that he is at least flirting with empathy, but I wanted to point out to him how hurtful it has been to me to have him minimize the effect the A has had on me. He says that he no longer thinks I'm just holding on to my anger, but I told him that he has said that many times before and that that was very painful for me. So, it's not just the LTA and it's deception, it's also how he has acted since DDay that has me so discouraged. I don't know if he understood me or not. But I also asked him how long he thought I should wait for him to come to realize that some of the other things he said post-DDay weren't true either? How long before he realizes the extent of the damage he has done and how long do I wait for that to happen? At what point do I cut my losses?
Had some dental work done today and my jaw is sore. DS17 was home all day feeling horrible so we're both heading for bed early. Have a good night Tribe.
[This message edited by strongish at 9:08 PM, February 15th (Tuesday)]
SisterMilkshake.. Welcome to therapy! lol.... Over the past year, we've had many debates about spouses loving AP. I conclude it is love, just not what I call mature love.
Immature love says, 'I love you because I need you.' Mature love says, 'I need you because I love you.' – Erich Fromm
LookingforLove.. Who knows if I will have a dday again.
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me'
NJgal... I knew your H too had really made a effort to R. I wanted DeepP to hear it, understand it, accept it. DP, It really is just a "fluck" we R. Most folks just cannot R after A's. It's because of most of the time only one is capable of the effort it takes.
Have a good day..
[This message edited by trynhard at 5:53 AM, February 16th (Wednesday)]
welcom to our little corner of si, yes we can be a chatty bunch...do not let that scare you though....we have all come here feeling as you do now....overwhelmed and in pain......
and yes the pain does diminish with time....but you will see that it really is a rollercoaster of emotion for quite some time.....as we say here in lta...lta=long term recovery....
if you have a ws who is doing everything he can to help then your journey will have less bumps along the way, you cannot avoid them all, but a remorseful ws who is doing it all helps tremendously.....
and you being proactive in your own healing will also help...the more you do to get back who YOU are, alot of us seem to lose who we were and are.....not to mention dealing with all the pain, anger and hurt does change who we are, and we need to come to terms with all that goes along with it...
How long before he realizes the extent of the damage he has done and how long do I wait for that to happen? At what point do I cut my losses
only you can come up with this answer....you will have to decide when you are done....and give yourself time to come to that conclusion...i know i am adding more time instead of alleviating some....but this is not a cut and dry thing for those of us who wish to reconcile.....when you make that decision to try, you make a new commitment to yourself....and how do you know when its done...when you decide you will no longer wait for him to do what he has to do......whether it will be just a moment frozen in time that it just hits you that you are done, or you setting goals and saying this is how you long you have to do a, b and c....and then either move on or move to d, e and f....
this whole thing is a process for all of us no matter where we are in our recovery, we all need to recover...we all need to heal.....
H signed the refi papers yesterday and we are on our way with that. Just revised the separation agreement to update the finances.
Tried talking to H this am and was reminded why R with him is pointless. I told him I am making plans to vacation separately withthe kids this summer and he should be making plans to find someplace else to live now and not wait to the last minute. Impressed upon him that once we tell the kids, there's no taking it back. Their lives are forever changed, that's the only reason why I go back to him every 10 days or so and remind him he still has the option of turning this around.
He seriously thinks that us just being nicer to each other, more loving and attentive is the cure.
I pointed out that we were doing that and he has continued to do stupid shit that makes me feel like crap, so I disagree.
Damn, they just don't seem to get how making a effort to help with the healing could go a long way. I do know that they all seem to think that ending the A and being nicer is making a huge effort.
Has he said anything about the book. Do you think he is reading it or maybe just skiming it?
Hugs to the tribe.
Every stupid selfish thing he does just validates my position about R and makes me want to shop.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 10:18 AM, February 16th (Wednesday)]