Sunday I was laying on our loveseat in our bedroom and SAWH came in and tried to make a move on me. I got up (I really don't have a desire right now... I just feel like me having sex with him he gets, gets, gets, and SAWH doesn't do anything (communication) for me). Anyway, I get up and tell him no. I'm now backed up to the wall and the more I say no, the stronger he holds me against the wall. Finally he stops and walks away.
Monday, I'm sleeping and the next thing I know he's on top of me. I tell him no and he pins me down. I tell him no and he holds my arms tighter. Finally, he rolls off of me disgusted and tosses my pillow which fell on the floor on the bed on top of my head and walks out of the bedroom.
This morning, he gets on top of me again. I gave up. He had sex. I layed there motionless and just looked away.
Once at work I texted him, "This morning I gave up. I was nothing more than a hole with skin for u. It WAS all about u. I hate myself for being like ur whore was."
He never texted back.
Sigh... I'm tired. I just want to go to bed and it's only 6:45pm.
[This message edited by momoffive at 6:16 PM, May 5th (Thursday)]
They are someone else when they are in their addiction. I hope that he can get some help soon. Continue to let him know that he is hurting you. They need to know.
Again, I am so sorry that he is not in recovery and treating you in this manner. Please make sure that you are using protection if you are forced to do something again. Your life is precious.
Your safety is in jeopardy now. Use every means necessary to protect yourself. I know that he may be able to overpower you. Get some help, call the police.....have him removed.
Make taking care of yourself and your children your number one priority.
Do what you can to get him out if that's what you want.
Sending you strength.
[This message edited by torn2bits at 6:57 PM, May 5th (Thursday)]
I am so sorry you had to endure this pressure and felt you had to give in. I understand the fatigue that leads you to just quit fighting certain things. I have not had to endure the pressure for sex like you; in fact, although my SAH verbalizes that he want so much to make love to me, he doesn't even make any approach, and in fact, pulls away from me if I inadvertently touch him during sleep (our counsellor, despite his betrayal in the end, pointed out how SAs will say a lot by their actions during sleep, even though they articulate something else during waking hours and are not aware what they do during sleep).
I just wanted to send you (((hugs))) because even though the spouses here experience different experiences, there is so much in our situations that is the same. Take care, momoffive...I hear you, loud and clear and feel your struggle/pain!!
I haven't seen a "change" yet.I know I won't with the little bit he's done, but after this latest episode where I felt like "he was turned on" by the "challenge" of me saying "no"...
(our counsellor, despite his betrayal in the end, pointed out how SAs will say a lot by their actions during sleep, even though they articulate something else during waking hours and are not aware what they do during sleep).
That's really interesting... and sad. I have noticed in his sleep if I touch him (not sexually - just like my hand or leg) that he pulls away and will often then roll on his side with his back towards me way over at the edge of his side of the bed.
Bet he never did that with his whore...
[This message edited by momoffive at 8:07 PM, May 5th (Thursday)]
That is exactly how my SAH reacts during sleep and has for the 5 years since D-Day. When it was pointed out to him by the IC/MC or myself, he pleaded 'non-awareness'. The IC/MC pointed out how that, in itself, spoke volumes; his fear of intimacy, which is one of the core issues of SA. It is really sad. I know I cannot get affection from my SA. I have accepted that as part and parcel of staying in the marriage for now (or forever...who knows at this point); I accepted this a very long time ago, as difficult as it is to accept. Sometimes at night, when I am awake, I try and touch him without him being aware, just to feel the intimate connection that I should have a right to but will never get from him, because I have lost all hope of him getting help. Those moments that I get that touch; I just soak it up and try and make it last as long as possible. When I finally get around to telling him about this, he will do his standard 'little boy sad, 'I'm so sorry and I want for you to feel free to do this anytime look' but 'he'll never get the help to make this possible' kinda thing. So it is either this or living alone where I would not get it anyway, although sometimes I think if I left him and lived alone, I could at least get a dog and have it to sleep beside. :-) I have my cats, but we cannot allow them in our bedroom at night because they get underneath the bed and start ripping out the material on the bottom of the mattress and keep us awake. Oy!! When I put this down on paper or online as I'm doing here, and I read it, I want to take the writer and shake the living daylights out of her and tell her to get out. I have grown immensely since D-Day; growth I should have experienced many years ago. However, I guess I simply have not developed enough 'guts' yet to just do what I need to do. Recently, I have been listening to a lot of sermons on my iPhone apps that address this issue and have been getting braver with each message. These preachers are very strong on women like me walking away, so the messages have been encouraging. Anyway...
Bet he never did that with his whore...
My SAH told me his whore would tell him every morning after a night he spent with her, "You didn't hold me all night." I have to admit that cracked me up because my SAH and I have always been very protective of our space at night and were never cuddlers after a some special intimate minutes after sex. It was a mutual agreement. She nagged him constantly about things like that and he does claim he could never give her that kind of stuff. Of all he told me, this is one thing I believed because I know how selfish he is about his sleep. It goes back to being a transportation employee with hours all over the map.
[This message edited by 1Forward1Back at 8:45 PM, May 5th (Thursday)]
I had never even heard of SA before coming to SI. People here offered me a wealth of information about this addiction and enabled me to make better decisions with my own life. Knowledge is power. Thank you for empowering me.
And with this, I am moving on with my life. Ended the relationship with SO and I feel I no longer need this thread. New beginnings is where I'll be now... and in Fun & Games.
Much love to you all. Sending prayers and courage. And gratitude.
I am sad/happy to hear you will be moving on. I know you have worked so hard not to go to new beginnings, and you will be missed here. Please come check in on occassion and share your wisdom with us....you will be missed!
I don't know if my chicken will ever become an eagle. But rest assured, I'm going to be a phoenix. Nevermind that I am still in the ashes stage of the process.
Just wanting to check in this morning. I hope all the moms had a wonderful Mothers Day!
I have been in a hard 180 lately, and as many of you suggested might happen, WS has amped up his response...in a really sad way. He has done a no show/no call for the last 2 visits with our daughter. He has texted good night and he left movies at our door for her, but that is it.
I can handle his BS when it is directed at me, but his recent choice to bail on visits with our lil girl hurts my heart. I will be seeking counseling for her soon. She is 4.5 years old.
As a friend said regarding his absence in her life, "he is either trying to f^*% with you or he is seriously f*^#ed up...or both. He has always sworn he loved his children more than anything else in the world.
FYI, he has also failed to pay child support the last 2 months.
I have a pattern of being his mommy, holding him accountable, tracking him down...all the tricks in the codependent handbag. This time I am refusing to meddle in his decisions, but it really hurts my heart for my sweet girl.
How do they do this? Any suggestions on how I should proceed? My feelings are that if he cannot be a stand up dad without me propping him up, then who the hell needs him? Am I being too harsh?
All opinions welcome!
I can't remember if I have posted in this thread before, but I am finding myself needing some genuine advice from people knowledgeable about sex addiction. My story is in my profile for anybody interested.
In short, I discovered my H's affairs last April when my second son was 2 months old. My H was diagnosed as a sex addict by a CSAT. We were both in therapy with CSATs for about 8 months until time and money became tight and we stopped going.
My H still struggles with masturbating but up until yesterday hasn't looked at porn in a very, very long time. My H claims that he doesn't struggle with any urges to contact other women and I don't have any reason to believe that he has been in contact with any or has attempted. He seems to be trying.
Anyway, I was checking my H's cell phone records and noticed a HUGE amount of data activity that occurred yesterday. I asked my H about it and at first he claimed that he was just looking at our local news website but the amount of usage just didn't add up. After more probing he admitted to looking at porn on his blackberry yesterday while I was napping (for mother's day). He claims that he was bored and the boys and I were napping so he wanted to see if he could view porn on his blackberry.
I am so upset but numb at the same time, if that makes sense. He claims he was going to tell me on our drive home from work today, but who knows if that is true. I know that he masturbates from time to time and he knows that I don't want him doing that because of his addiction and he seems to try not to and feels shame when he does. But I thought he was okay on the porn issue. It has seriously been probably 10 months or so. And I had a keylogger on his computer so I would know if he viewed porn.
Part of me just wants to separate and see how I feel about things after some time apart. But another part of me wants to be supportive and get him back into counseling and help him through this but it is so hard when I feel so betrayed and lied to. And how do I REALLY know that he isn't hiding anything else. When I catch my H doing something he shouldn't be he usually tries to lie for a few minutes but I never accept his lies and keep pushing until he admits it. Why does he always have to lie first?! Would he ever really tell me if I didn't catch him? I can usually tell that something is off with him which causes me to investigate.
I'm just afraid of having to keep my guard up for the rest of my life. Is he really worth all of that? Is it worth it for my children to grow up living with both of the parents? UGH!! I really don't understand the appeal of porn and why he struggles with this so much.
My biggest worry is what the porn would have lead to if left unchecked. If I didn't catch him looking at porn, then he would have continued doing that for who knows how long until it escalated to real live people again. I absolutely cannot live through him being unfaithful again and I feel like him viewing porn is the first step to him cheating again. He claims that he felt like "crap" after viewing porn yesterday and "knows" that it wouldn't have lead to anything else. But who knows what really would have happened.
Any thoughts, advice, support? I just don't know where to go from here....
I wish you all the best down in NB. A clean slate & a new dawn- congratulations for moving on.
@ bent44~ I've zero experience with S or D & resulting custody issues. That said, addicts make awful, awful parents. :( Be there for your little treasure as much as you can,
@ His Betrayal~
I'm pretty new in the SA side of things, my SA was only diagnosed last July. My story is in my profile. IMO, your SAWH needs to be in therapy with his CSAT & going to support groups once a week minimum. Yes, therapy costs the earth, but it really is the only way out of the swamp. I know all about tight money, but it might be possible for you to find a CSAT who works on a sliding scale or who will allow you to make payments. The key here is- the SA has to own his recovery. He needs to make the appointments, go to group, do his step work, etc. Not you. Him. Addiction is a mental illness with a high rate of relapse & slips. A strong program & a huge amount of determination will see him through. He has to want it though. Why do addicts lie? Because it protects their addiction. Because it's a default behavior. Because they're addicts.
As for you, I personally subscribe to the "verify for your own protection" club. If your SA has slipped (& it certainly sounds like it, if he was sober at all), verifying what he's up to will protect you. If you're obsessing over everything, you need to discuss the issue with your CSAT. Honestly- I swear by going to a CSAT just as much for the spouse as for the SA. Truly. It's worth every single penny. If you're sexually intimate with him & you aren't sure what he's been up to please use condoms with him & get the full STD panel done ASAP. Your little ones need you healthy. Sometimes a couple must spend some time apart in order to heal fully. I've read arguments both for and against S. I'm debating this point myself.
I'm just afraid of having to keep my guard up for the rest of my life. Is he really worth all of that?
I feel this way too. It's a question that each one of us must answer on her own. I wish I had more answers or reassurances to offer you. If nothing else, please find yourself a CSAT/IC & attend regularly. SA is its own special hell to live with & we need all the tools we can get our hands on in order to heal. Go to recoverynation.com & work their partner's program, it's free & is very helpful.
The thread is slow sometimes, so be patient or PM me. I'm often around, although mostly up in general. Also, on p.1 is 7yrs' post for newbies. Read it, print it out & buy & read all of the books. It'll be amazingly helpful.
"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow
"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."
After your WH quit going to see the CSAT because $ was tight, why did he not keep up in other recovery activities, such as 12 step? Does he have inner and middle circle behaviors defined or a sponsor that he can deal with his slip with? If he was still masturbating, then he is NOT sober, and has not been, even without supposedly viewing porn. I would venture a guess that 100% of SA's scan and store those images, and if he truly was not looking at porn, but was masturbating, then he was scanning or using stored porn images in his brain. Either way, NOT sober. Sorry. It sounds like in a best case scenario he has been white knuckling at times.
You need to decide what your boundaries are. For a one time slip, my H has to talk to his CSAT and 12 step group. The last time he had a slip with porn and masturbation, I also met with the CSAT. I agree with Sabina, that meeting on my own with the CSAT has been very good for me. Recovery is something that is ongoing and takes a lot of work, for the SA and for us. My recovery is not dependent on my H's and his is not dependent on mine.
I think the idea of being supportive and "helping" him get through this is co-dependent thinking. He either wants recovery or he doesn't. I know because I spent a lot of energy throughout the years trying to get my H help and to be supportive. Didn't get either or us anywhere. Only once when my H hit rock bottom did he decide to embrace recovery for himself. At that point it was do or die. And yes, it does escalate when they are not in real recovery.
My biggest worry is what the porn would have lead to if left unchecked. If I didn't catch him looking at porn, then he would have continued doing that for who knows how long until it escalated to real live people again.
On of my gut clenching moments was when SAWH came home and told me that his therapist had warned him that if he slipped back into the addiction it would start right back up where it left off. Not back at "just" porn or cyber.
It was an eye opening thing to hear.
Thank you so much for your replies.
I agree with all of what you've said. My H definitely needs to want to seek treatment on his own. We discussed it more last night and he asked to go back to counseling. He'll probably go once every 2 or 3 weeks, depending on what we can afford. Our medical insurance covers mental health counseling but there are not any in-network CSATs so he would have to go to a regular counselor if we were to go through our insurance.
Anyway, I compared his recovery to diet/exercise and he agreed that he knows that he needs to do both and wants to but doesn't have that do or die mentality about it. It makes me feel really sad that my well being and keeping our family together is not motivating enough for him. Prior to all of this he has been sporadically reading and working in his SA books on his own.
I asked him about 12-step groups and he said that he doesn't feel comfortable going because the idea was originally meant for alcoholics and morphed for sex addicts. He said that he is embarrassed discussing what he has done just doesn't think a 12-step group will work because you can't just cut out sex like you can alcohol so he can't see how it would apply for sex addiction. Excuses, excuses... right? Do I need to leave him in order for him to hit "rock bottom"? Or should I wait and see how restarting therapy goes for a bit?
I really think that he wants to change but is borderline lazy and needs a kick in the pants. He asked me to support and encourage him with his therapy. Where is the line between support and codependency?
I feel like I have to monitor him like a child. I have two children... I want a husband. I am way too busy to have two toddlers, a demanding fulltime job, and a house to upkeep to have to monitor his every move!
See if you can find an addiction specialist. Getting to a CSAT for us isn't a viable option, but the therapist who my husband found is an addiction specialist and he's been an excellent tool and resource.
Before my H hit rock bottom, I think that he would have been very uncomfortable with going to a 12 step group, too. But addicts need accountability. You cannot be his sponsor or accountability partner. My H is a successful man with a master's degree. I think he had preconceived notions of what a 12 step group would be like, but in his group there are doctors, teachers, ministers, etc. I think if your WH is interested in recovery, he should at least try it for a period of time.
Recovery from SA is NOT a do-it-yourself project. My H tried the white knuckle approach on and off for years. It just doesn't work. And they have to want it. It has to be do or die. If your WH is too lazy or unmotivated to do it, you have to take steps to protect yourself. Get healthy for yourself and get your finances in order. I am not saying separate from him at this time, because only you can decide on when the time is right. I have mentioned before that everyone's rock bottom is different; for my H it was loss of respect of his children, a 3 month separation, and legal consequences. It was a hard landing. For all of us.
If you aren't going to do it right with a CSAT, I wouldn't even bother at this point. He sounds like he is not committed. And with all due respect to KickedintheGut's point of view, my H did go to several "addiction specialist" IC's through the years. We chose them because we were not knowledgeable about SA and they were in our insurance network. That didn't work out too well. My H said that he did not feel that they really understood SA and that they were easy to fool. My H's CSAT does not take insurance, so we pay out of pocket. Yes, it is pricey, but it is an investment in recovery. However, if your WH isn't invested in recovery and hasn't hit rock bottom, you will just be spinning your wheels.
For us, we did get lucky with an addiction specialist. I'm just saying if it's CSAT or nothing and CSAT's not an option - find someone. If not for him, then for you. My therapist - who is a trauma specialist - has been a truly helpful for me.
You can't be his therapist or accountability partner.
My SAWH was a bit stunned at the number of highly educated people at the SAA meetings. He said almost everyone there was college educated - some of them highly. If you think about it, it takes some keen intelligence to successfully hide the secret life of an SA.
We discussed it more last night and he asked to go back to counseling. He'll probably go once every 2 or 3 weeks, depending on what we can afford. Our medical insurance covers mental health counseling but there are not any in-network CSATs so he would have to go to a regular counselor if we were to go through our insurance.
FWIW, my husband saw his CSAT once every two weeks. For him, that was a good amount, as he actually had time to get his "homework" done in between sessions.
Have you asked if the CSAT as a payment plan or sliding scale?
I was able to find a therapist who worked out a payment plan with me. At that time, I was supporting myself making 10K a year.
2) 12 step program for you and SA
3) Read and educate yourself
4) take care of yourself and any children
5) Forgive yourself for not knowing. You were a loving and faithful spouse.
Yes, my husband's CSAT agreed to a reduced payment amount. He said that a lot of his clients are having a hard time affording his services, so he agreed to reduce his rate for my H. So we are planning on my H seeing the CSAT once every two weeks for now.
I too am very scared of the cheating happening again. The funny thing about my H, he can't pinpoint the reason for his SA. He claims that he doesn't have any family of origin issues and never had any traumatic experiences. It makes me wonder if my H is just a bad person where he can lie and be so damaging and deceitful without any major cause behind it.