I actually think he is sincere and I don't think many people can pretend for so long. He is not crying only because of me or us, i think he is also crying remembering all the thing he's done, he is ashamed of a lot of them.
He begged me on his knees to forgive me, to give him another chance. And yes, he is still crying and begging.I just thought all of them cry and beg because they have to realize that they went very, very low.
I don't know where I am, i don't want to spend the rest of my life alone and I don't want to hurt my son who is 14, at the same time everything is just to big for me to forgive.
H has been following me around like a puppy. I'm sure he is waiting for me to tell him "what's wrong". (Like I'm married to a lazy SA, asshole, duh!), but I'm just not biting. He has to ask and he has to be willing to listen. The "poor thing" is muttering that he wished he "had a job". Well, he did, but he blew that with his addiction.
Okay.... I'm still angry LOL. But with his actions, I feel economically, emotionally and sexually unsafe. I'm glad I can finally put a name on it and be angry about it.... really, really angry.
Hugs. I feel ya sistah.
So I'm a little worried about this class. I'm afraid we will go in, and it will just be guys addicted to porn or something and we will be the extremes. Or maybe everyone else has hit rock bottom and are/were far worse, and they will freak us out. I can't just relax and be grateful we have resources like this available to us. Ugh.
I don't know if this will help you or not. But, addiction is addiction, no matter how you slice it. There is no better, no worse. No one is "more" of an addict or "less" than an addict.
Being an addict is like being pregnant. You either are or aren't. Trying to qualify the addiction generally isn't good. If that comes from the addict, it means the addict isn't ready for recovery.
SA is an "interesting" addiction, in that you get 40 SAs in a room, and well, you have 40 different addicts with 40 different ways of acting out. There are also 40 different recovery plans.
My husband is "just" addicted porn and compulsive mb'ing. He's still been an addict for over half his live. He still had to work a recovery. I still have to be mindful of the risks of living with a recovering addict.
And for us, when we were first learning about SA, it was good to be exposed to the extremes. Just because my husband's addiction hadn't escalated to the point where he could have lost his job or gotten arrested doesn't mean his acting out wouldn't ever get to that level. It also means, that, as a spouse, I have to be prepared for the worst. Knowing how bad bad can get helped me form my boundaries rather quickly.
So, try not to be worried. (I'm sorry, this probably didn't come off as helpful at all...)
He lost his job yet again due to layoffs. Huge self esteem problem, of course. But he had planned to retire in two years anyway, this just pushes the timeline up a bit and we can afford this with some belt tightening. WE ARE LUCKY. I have expressed my concern over what he will be doing all day when he isn't working. He isn't good at keeping busy. The computer is always on his lap RED FLAG. So, last week, he was waiting with futility for workman who never showed up, bored and pissed off because he found out he wasn't eligible for unemployment insurance because his last employer was a nonprofit who didn't pay INTO unemployment, and he began searching the web. Not specifically for porn. Just gorgeous, young, fit tennis players as he was watching a tournament. And the search deteriorated to these gorgeous, young , fit, professional athletes posing provocatively or in the nude or partially. (why would these women do this?) If this was any other man? It would be just pretty girls. For an SA! Relapse or at least a major slip. I freak out, he says "they're just tennis players?!" That attitude, fortunately didn't last long. He admitted it was a slip/relapse, went to an extra SA meeting, and called his sponsor.
Me, I'm a mess. Not only am I still feeling rejected because our sex life is non-existent, oh there's LOTS of affection, that's good, but it's like he's too SHY to follow through with lovemaking. If I initiate, fine, but I want to feel like he wants me! And of course, then I obsess about the whole comparison thing. Plus, I'm 57, have wrinkles on my wrinkles, My legs look like I'm wearing saggy-at-the-knees panty hose when I'm not WEARING any, and cannot compete with these images on the computer screen and I just don't buy that he isn't seeing the babes when he's with me. Although he says he doesn't of course....
And lastly, my greatest fear is, here he was, faced on this day with very minor stress, waiting for repairmen, no unemployment. What is going to happen if there is REAL stress in our lives? If one of us gets sick? Or if one of the kids has trouble? Will he go off the deep end?
I hate this. I feel like I am back at the very beginning.
You know what? It doesn't always work if you work it.
My SAWH isnít remorseful, so I canít relate to that aspect. I do relate to how you feel though, and I wish I could offer more than simply a hug. I have to say, though, that actions speak louder than words. What is your SA doing to fix himself and you?
I agree with you that rage, properly expressed, is healthy and ok. Being up at 2 a.m. porn surfing is a bad sign, I agree. If you canít find a CSAT try an IC who specializes in addictions. I find 12 step groups helpful too, and regularly attend meetings. Maybe try Al-Anon if there arenít S-Anon ones? Dunno, just thinking aloud here trying to extend a helping hand by offering you ideas. I tend to withdraw and hide when I struggle and I know it isnít helpful.
I was nervous before the group meetings also. For me I was entering into unknown territory and I knew Iíd be asked to think about painful feelings and events, which is difficult for me in one on one situations never mind in a group. I really relate to what you wrote about the meetings. Please stick with them though, youíll learn so much, I assure you. Donít worry about where everyone else is. Just worry about you & your SA. Itíll be enough to hear whatís taught. Itís my experience people in these classes are at the very early stages of finding out about SA& will be all over the map in terms of where they are & what their prognosis might be. Addiction recovery is a very long process.
I think you have every right to be as angry as you feel. Itís healthy to let it out, so go ahead. How he reacts is his problem, as you know. IMO, your living sitch sounds difficult for you. Allow yourself to be angry. Consider implementing the 180 as defined here. Iím thinking of the active part of it- not cooking for him, not doing his laundry, etc. You arenít his mom, donít let him treat you as such. Heís manipulating you, as my SAWH is me.
Donít you just love getting to 2fer? Adultery and addiction all at the same time?! /sarcasm I hear you when you said Ē It doesn't always work if you work it.Ē Saying very gently, fourteen months is still a young recovery (says the woman with the in denial SA), at least it sounds like he did what heís supposed to, not that any of this helps you feel better.
"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow
"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."
IRN, thanks for that. I didn't mean to belittle porn addiction, I just meant I wanted to be in a roomful of people in a similar situation that understand where we are coming from.
Hi-wanted to clarify that I didn't think you were belittling porn as my husband way of acting out. I was using "just" as tongue and cheek.
You will likely encounter all types of people. Some, that yes, are doing well at their recovery, and others that aren't. In my COSA group, there was a woman whose husband was an SA and seeing the same CSAT my husband had. My husband managed to stay sober, while this other husband couldn't stay sober for more than 2 weeks. Who knows why that happened..
I hear you feeling so unsafe right now. In time, you will figure out the path you need to take and start working on those steps.
Well, lookie where we are today. That plan worked out well didnt it?
Me - BW 41
Him - WH 49
M - 16 years, together for 21 years
D day -w
I know and believe "progress not perfection" but the emotional toll is tough. And he DID and IS doing all the things he needs to do to resume his recovery. And so we continue.
So I get home today with 45 mins before the school open house. H is sitting on the couch with "that look". Seems that the situation at work is now being looked at criminally.... I'm not sure what that means exactly. It may be nothing, just them clearing up some issues, but I need to prepare for the worst.
I also completely lost my cool, which I was trying so hard not to do.... not because of how it makes him feel, but how it makes ME feel. But out it all came... about how he has tramatized me and continues to do so every time he has acted out. How he doesn't seem to care about how this has affected me and the children.... I said he should be kissing my feet for staying married to him..... well, it was all true.
So therapy on Monday will not come soon enough. I agree that the 180 is the way to go... I'm also needing to figure out how to keep the kids safe if this work thing blows up.
I'm going to bed. I'm just exhausted, emotionally and physically. God, and I need to go to work tomorrow and actually be productive
I seem to remember one woman who's husband was arrested and convicted for some not-so-great behavior, and had a child that she had to protect.
If you don't post there, it might be worth it to post your situation, and ask specifically how to protect the kids.
I am not going to go into specifics about the nature of the allegations against my H, but 2 years ago, on the last d-day he was the subject of a criminal investigation that did blow the whole sex addiction thing open to our children with very devastating results. They were VERY bitter and upset with ME for having stayed with a SA. I lost a lot of respect. Things have changed a lot in the last 2 years, and they are even starting to call him dad again, but staying for the kids or thinking you are protecting the kids just doesn't work with SA. And YES, you DO have to think about how to best protect yourself legally now. I did seek legal advice at the time. We immediately separated. I was also grilled by detectives during the investigation. Oh, and the kids and I were interviewed by CPS as well. My H was fortunately cleared and there were never charges filed, but it could have went in that direction.
The bitter irony was that I had a coworker at the time who everyone talked about because her husband was in prison. Before the police paid a visit to my house, and when I felt that my H's activities although terrible were confined to the legal sort, I felt that smugness like it could never happen to me, that my H had a problem, but he was not that bad. Well, didn't I learn a lesson....therefore but the grace of God go I.
I was a nervous wreck, too, so I know how you are feeling. If this doesn't propel him to rock bottom, nothing will. I know that up until this point, my H did feel that he would be able to manage his addiction. I think that for him, having the police show up at his door was his wake up call.
You must take any and all steps right now to protect yourself and your kids legally. I hate to say it, but you need to disclose (in the most appropriate manner possible) to your kids quickly. You don't want them finding out from the media, from the police, CPS, etc. It will cause confusion and will alter your relationships. This is one of the consequences of SA. It IS a family disease. I know that people with children want to believe that they can protect them from the fallout, but when the addict truly spirals out of control they take everyone with them.
You talk of being numb, I lived my whole life numb for years. With alcohol and workaholism. That is what it takes to turn the blind eye or to pretend that everything is all right. We know in our guts that it isn't, but we silence it anyway we can.
What are your boundaries at this point? From your posts, it doesn't sound like your SAH is really working on recovery. He sounds like he is doing the bare minimum and resenting it at that. He should be as worried as you are about protecting the children and your future. He should be kissing your feet. He should be doing everything in his power to make this right. Laziness and self-pity just feed the addiction.
Anyway, I just wanted you to know that you weren't alone, and that others have gone through this. I do understand. My H knows that if he ever crossed the line again into any sort of behavior that could bring the police into our lives, it would all be over in a heartbeat. It is a dealbreaker for me, and he knows that. Please, take care of YOU and your kids.
I don't want this reply to sound like I am minimizing your pain at all. SA causes all of us to doubt our attractiveness and it is such a blow to our self-esteem. You know we all can empathize with you about those aspects.
Slips do happen in recovery. I am NOT excusing your SAH's behavior. My H has had a couple of slips in the last 2 years of recovery, both were in early recovery. Porn and masturbation. I found out fairly quickly, as my gut tuned me in (I don't check on my H). These slips were dealt with by his CSAT and in 12 step. He has also been working through RN to identify his triggers and to learn new behaviors and coping mechanisms. I think that the important thing for us as spouses is that when a slip does occur, we have boundaries in place to protect ourselves. My boundary when a slip of this nature occurs is not to be sexually intimate with him again until we have had a joint session with the CSAT. I need to feel safe.
I think you are already identifying that self-esteem and boredom issues are going to be a real challenge for him being unemployed. I don't think that is minor at all. Is he talking to his CSAT about how to handle this? Is he making plans with how he is going to fill his time productively? My H has found that he cannot allow himself to be bored. He has found projects and hobbies to fill his time. He is so much more productive now that he isn't acting out. He spent so much time in the addiction.
I think that there is a problem if 14 months into recovery your intimate life is non-existent. Are you working with a CSAT? 12 step is good for the accountability aspects, but it isn't enough. I would say that in the first year we were not very sexually active. We still are not sexually active to the extent of most married couples our age. However, going from pity sex once or twice a year to two to four times a month is a vast improvement. And it is intimate and loving and he is present. This is something that my H has had to work on in counseling. I know that sounds odd, but my H's CSAT has really helped my H and I to have a sexual relationship. It is hard to explain, but he has provided my H with a lot of encouragement to be fearless about true intimacy. In addition, I am now my H's only sexual outlet. So, I am receiving his sexual energy instead of the acting out he used to do.
As for the program not working, I still believe in it. Did you call a 12 step friend? Can you talk about your feelings in a meeting? You can. You do have support. And while I realize that sometimes statements like "progress, not perfection" sound trite, it is true. If your SAH is really working the program, then I am sure that there is change. I know that the things that would have sent my H into a tailspin 2 years ago do not affect him in that way anymore. I understand that you are at a low point, and I would be too, but don't throw in the towel yet. Hopefully, your SAH is learning something valuable from this experience and will be stronger next time he is bored or frustrated.
Our children are the happiest they have been in 2 years. They have even started to acknowledge my H as their father again. I think that the changes that they have seen in both of us are beginning to feel real to them. That and the trauma, pain, and uncertainty are beginning to lessen with the passage of time.
I don't want to sounds overly optimistic and like there are no troubles in life, but life has improved dramatically with both of us embracing recovery. I know that the possibility of slips are always there with a SA. There is a calculated risk in living with one, even in recovery. It has not been an easy road, and our marriage was very troubled for many years. However, I am happy to say that I do feel hope again in my life. Not just in my marriage, but in my general outlook. I entered this marriage as a damaged person. I realize that most people don't want to acknowledge the idea of co-dependency, but recovery has also made a huge difference in MY life, and now, subsequently in the life of my children. I strongly encourage all of you to consider recovery for YOU, regardless of what happens with your SA.
Hugs to everyone tonight. We are all in this rotten sisterhood together.
[This message edited by TooManyYears at 12:35 AM, September 15th (Thursday)]
SAH should be calling for an attorney today. the interegation has been postponed until he can get representation. I'm working on a plan with my mom to keep the kids safe if the media shows up at our door. My mom also has a close friend who is a news reporter, so we'll get some tips on how best to handle things.
I know I'm going to be okay in the long run. I just hate not knowing how things will turn out. I always read ahead in books (even murder mysteries). I hate uncertainty. Why did I think I could ever live with a SA???
So, I'm off to be productive at work, because that is in my control. Will be working on a formal plan to take care of myself over the weekend.
Thanks for being here, one and all!
don't want to sounds overly optimistic and like there are no troubles in life, but life has improved dramatically with both of us embracing recovery. I know that the possibility of slips are always there with a SA. There is a calculated risk in living with one, even in recovery. It has not been an easy road, and our marriage was very troubled for many years. However, I am happy to say that I do feel hope again in my life. Not just in my marriage, but in my general outlook. I entered this marriage as a damaged person. I realize that most people don't want to acknowledge the idea of co-dependency, but recovery has also made a huge difference in MY life, and now, subsequently in the life of my children.
Wait until you are close to 5 years out.
I could have posted this word for word (except my codependency issues were with my parents, not my husband.) My kids, thankfully, were too young to remember the bad years.
I don't forget the hell and the pain. And like you, I'm still vigilant to know that today could be my last day of being married, and it's not in my control. But, I'm prepared incase the worst happens.
But, being able to enjoy life in the present..a "normal" life without dysfunction..things are just easy and nice.
We are truly partners.
At our last meeting with the CSAT, he said that many SAs benefit from 90 days of total abstinence from everything for a variety of reasons. So WH has pretty much been sticking to that other than the requirements for the vasectomy. I haven't discussed it with him lately, because I just can't be his keeper on everything. But I do monitor is computer usage and make him accountable for his time. But it is a relief to have it off the table for a while to get my head straight on other stuff.
Sager, hugs. I am proud of you. Hang in there mama.