Navewife, I was shocked at how common male-male encounters are with SA. I have not confirmed this happened with my H, he denies it... but I have seen emails that went from "no way dude, Im straight" to " send me your pic". There is also an attempt to set up a webcam encounter with a man but he says that when he realized it was a man he didnt do it. However, the way that he wasnt able to be specific with how he DIDNT go through with it (was it after he saw the webcam that he realized its a guy? he says no. Okay, then how? he doesnt remember. ETC) that makes me really question if he did. He has always claimed to be 'grossed out' by the thought of men in a sexual way. I dont think this is something he could bring himself to admit to me at this time if it happened.
I have read that for some it is "amping up" the behavior. I think I see it differently. Also, no, I dont even think it means your H is gay or bi.
Here is how I see it.... For whatever reasons, our Hs started dropping their boundaries. First they thought its fine to just "look" at the profiles, and maybe have a chat. Boundary dropped. Then they thought its fine to email and see what happens. Then they thought they need to meet someone it doesnt matter who, it doesnt matter what they look like (Its like this in my H case, and probably in many of yours, he says women who he normally would not be attracted to suddenly became good enough. It didnt even matter if they looked good at all). So they met, and had anonymous sex with a stranger. Boundary dropped. They may have even done illegal activities for the first time. Boundary dropped. Do you see how when you go down a path where nothing matters and nothing is wrong, its easy to just do anything. There are a lot more men out there looking for free quick anonymous encounters than there are women. If you dont know, when a man posts his ad on craigslist for a straight woman.... they still get replies from men offering free sex. They often offer blow jobs or anal (so the H would still be in the "top" position). I can see a man who no longer cares what he does, thinking .... well... there is an offer.... never tried it... dont have a woman offering right now....I'll give it a shot. Just a possibility.
cheetabump, Im so so sorry that you are finding out more. For my H it seems the best way to confront has been to be calm, patient and sound understanding and that you will love him no matter what he says(even if you dont mean it). Im no longer able to do that and I get no new info either.
tlsmi, I dont know much about your story but it strikes me as similar to mine... Mine acted out when I was out of town visiting my family and now my mom has cancer for the second time and I will be going out of town for a while at the end of this month. Im so doubtful about what he will do when Im gone and hes "bored" again.
Im so sorry to hear about your mom. I wish you and her find peace.
Anyone who wants to PM me please do.
Cheetah, I hope it's going well. I think about your situation every day. And Sager too, I hope you are both doing well.
As for me, all the paperwork is at the lawyer's and she's hammering out the post nup. He's agreed to all my terms so in theory I just have to wait for them to draw everything up and for us to sign it.
I'm skipping a class this weekend to do my girls night out with my best friend. I planned it around what I thought was their syllabus, and they moved the classes around so now I am missing the class about relapses. Grr. WH has been told to take copious notes and ask specific questions in my absence. I'm pissed because this may be the only lecture class where I learn significant new info, and that I planned my trip THIS weekend because I didn't want to miss the testimony of a successful couple in R the weekend after. Well, they wound up doing their testimony last week. And while it was touching to share their story, they weren't married before they went into therapy, don't have children, and his problem was internet porn primarily, not the heavier stuff a lot of us have. I really really needed to hear from somebody married with children with more extreme acting out that it was possible to recover and R. So it kind of irks me I'm missing the relapse class because I tried to see this instead. Well, such is life.
I have such a massive headache from crying all night. It isn't like we were going to reconcile but when I discovered the first pics I asked if he was bi and he swore that he wasn't. I kept asking him to tell me everything and he refused. Now that I found these new pics I feel so ashamed, humiliated and can't eat or sleep. I don't understand why he married me if he is into men. The first set of pics were bad enough but add these new ones and I want to die. I don't know when he took them but he posted them on New Years Day 07. Where the hell was I that he was doing this and I never knew. How could I be so stupid not to know he was chatting with men about sex with them.
My IC pegged him as a sex addict and I haven't told her about these new pics. I really don't know how to cope with this new information. I have already been tested for everything and it was negative but why didn't he tell me about this stuff? Is this why he was never interested in sex with me? I didn't have the right equipment? Someone please help me understand why he even bothered to marry me if he didn't want me. God this hurts so bad.
I am so sorry for your pain. I know it can be unbearable. I know you are seeing an IC, but I would like to suggest that you either see a CSAT or join a womens SA partners group.
Not to save your marriage or to change your husband, but to help yourself make sense of all this for your own sanity.
Counselors are great, but most are not trained to deal with the very unique and difficult trauma partners face from being married to an SA.
I don't know if I will stay with my SA, but seeing specialists in SA has really helped me to understand things and helped me to become stronger, have better boundaries and identify my values so that I will recognize this type of abuse in the future and will not let anyone treat me this way again.
Hugs and prayers for you!
So all weekend he has been calm, friendly and go on about business as usual.
Today(Monday) is his IC appointment. He is uptight right from the get go.
He calls me in the bedroom before he leaves and wants to know..
1) How did I know about the place? I told him I had a PI.
2) He wanted to know if I was in the place. Yes, I said.
I told him they have arcades in the back. At that he cut me off and said I wouldn't know I have never been in the back.
I just continued with the arcades have partitions and the back of the building have glory holes.
He said he just wanted to know what to say to the IC when he would ask him how I found the place.
HAHA...right?! Well, at this point I can't really worry about every little thing I am saying.
Oh I also mentioned that the majority of the porn in that place is gay porn. At that he said, have you ever seen gay porn in the house?!
Well, that is where he left for IC. He is furious!
I can see him building his case on the fact that I tailed him! How dare I? We do not have a trust?!
Okay guys, need the wall I need to put up so he can't penetrate. If he comes home and says, It can't work..he wants to separate.
I will just say ok..
Do I try to justify my reasons for my watching him? How to I back him off of that line of reasoning?
Forgive me but sometimes when I get nervous I need something concrete to think about in order to survive the attack.
thanks for any info you can give.
I will re-post this in general as well. I will need oxygen today!!
No. You do not have to justify anything. This isn't supposed to a parent/child relationship.
We deserve to know the truth and are free to seek it as we see fit.
How about "When you challenge why I choose to find out the real truth, I will leave the room, leave the house, stop talking to you, take a bath and lock the bathroom door (pick one.)" IOW, this is a great time to be working on your boundaries.
Remember: Addicts lie. It's to be expected. To expect anything else would be foolish.
[This message edited by IRN2006 at 11:33 AM, October 10th (Monday)]
Yes, that is the hard part. The lying...not the stuff..it is the lying.
Just get it out in the f*ckn open and lets move on.
I am a bit depressed today cause when he does this..only says two things to me.
He is not committed to R
and shoot..he isn't even near admitting he has a problem period!
He would rather run and start over than work it through. At least that is my feeling.
I offered R but need full disclosure. I believe he would rather die than disclose anything.
Oh well, that is where it is at today and that saddens me.
Thanks for replying tho
Sadly, I have been on this roller coaster for 2 years!!!! I am in the divorce process.
My SAWH is in denial and will not seek recovery. He lies when confronted still! He blames me and is abusive and angry when confronted but says he wants the M and has even fought my divorce papers. Ya know why? His image, his ego and his need to cover and hide it all.
Please protect yourself! When you speak to him, remember that You have a life without him, You are a beautiful human being, You deserve to be treated with respect and should not be subjected to a toxic and diseased environment. You, like myself, deserve a faithful and loving relationship.
Yes, it has taken me 2 years to mourn my marriage and say he is abusive and he doesn't want to get help and there's not a dam thing I can do but live my life and protect myself from disease and continued anger and abusive behaviour.
Keep safe, be strong and confident when you talk to him!!
Oh well, that is where it is at today and that saddens me.
That would sadden me as well. I'm sorry for your situation.
But, be glad that you have all the info that you need to make some decisions about your life now.
He is playing the "victim" and do what you want card.
I am disgusted and hurt, and well..you name it I am feeling it.
I hate him right now. I hate him doing this blameshift and gaslighting.
I hate what my life has become!!
I am going through the 12 steps with my SA in Recovering Couples Anonymous.
In writing about anger in Step 1.....I have never been an angry person or easily brought to anger. There are two instances in my life with my SA after I found out about false reconcilliations where I totally thought he was being faithful.....and I freaked out (once after reading an email where he told the other women he loved her and missed her after he fooled me for six months after a D-day)and I flailed my arms and fists at his head in rage and anger. I am sure it was a weak attempt because he easily blocked my arms, but I did hit him repeatedly.
I am concerned that I don't have too much remorse about this. I have never hit anyone in my life except these two times.
I do feel a little bad about it, because I know violence is never the answer and it is wrong to hit someone. But mostly I feel justified - he brought me to the brink of insanity with years of lies, emotional and mental abuse.
I am trying to figure out how to feel about this. Any thoughts?? Anyone else experience something like this?
I hope I will have more control if I am ever in this situation again. I have learned a lot through therapy. I hope if there is a next time I am strong enough to respect myself and just end the relationship for good instead of acting that way.
Hugs to all,
I told him to get the hell away from me or I would actually hit him and I wouldn't be sorry. I think that our minds sorta shut down due to emotional overload and some latent cavewoman takes over for us. We want to lash out at what has betrayed and devastated us. I am not saying it is right just that I felt it also. And I have never wanted to him my stbx before.
When I found the new information on the internet about my stbx, I didn't feel the same anger. I felt ashamed, humiliated and sad. I wanted to know why he married me if this was what he was into. Why not tell me up front and give me the opportunity to say I would still marry him or no, it was a dealbreaker. Even as I type this I no longer feel the anger, I feel beyond sad. My entire marriage was a lie because he has obviously been doing this crap since we were engaged. I would really like to know why and if he tried to fight it while we were married.
Don't be hard on yourself for how you reacted just step back next time and warn him to get the hell away from you. Give yourself a time out so that you can calm down. You are a strong person and you can walk away if it comes to that again.
Today was a rough day. He brought up the fact that I thought he was gay (which I did not say) and he was horrified that I would even think such a thing.
Obviously, I didn't know him..he says..
Oh, he threw alot of talk about how if I don't trust him we have nothing, that he doesn't have to say anything because I "know" it all by tailing him..how he is humiliated that I would go to such lengths when he thought we were working on things!
WTF...I am still trying to get the garbage talk out of my head. It was so hurtful. He twisted my words and would not let me get a word in edgewise.
I did say at one point..I DID NOTHING WRONG!
His answer to that was that I led him to believe we were working on things and that I said our sex is not cutting it anymore.
WOW...I never said that..what I did say was that I was scared and hurt that he has secrets. That I never said he was gay but asked what he was doing in a place that is primary for men hooking up and last but not least when he asked about our sex..I said I felt he was a bit detached at times.
I want to give up so bad..just throw in the towel.
He would rather lash out and hurt me more than be honest at this point and right now the way I am feeling...I just don't know if I have it in me either.
We have been in sort of limbo for a year. He has been going to IC for that same amount of time so I thought maybe he would handle our convos better than this.
Shame on me...I am the bad guy.
I just want a normal, healthy, relationship..F*ck me!
Glad to hear your H is addressing some of the issues. My H doesn't think he has a problem..he thinks I have the problem!!
Oh Yeah, I have a problem alright. I just wish he would get a good IC and move on. BUT the IC he is seeing now is taking H's word for things and of course that is not all of the truth.
We have been together for 25 yrs, married for 20. Up til about 2-4 years (hard to say exactly when this unraveled for us) all was good.
The guy that is talking to me now..I just do not know him. My old H would never, ever speak to me in the ways this strange man is.
It is soooooo very hard not to take some of the stuff personally and get on the defensive. I want to explain myself but he is not listening so I am trying to just let go and focus on me even more than I already have been doing.
Well, I just wanted to say Hi and thanks for sharing. Sorry we are all here.
I should be really angry and I can't find it. Will it come? I keep thinking if I get angry I can move forward somehow but instead the lump in my throat just sits there.
Anyone else have trouble with this? How do you find your anger in a positive way?