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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair - Part 25
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m334455,

Infidelity can certainly be a deal breaker, but in your case, it has sounded much like infidelity with an unrepentant WS. I think that is really a deal breaker for most anyone.

You cannot R alone, and you do not want to R with the same person who betrayed you.

((m334455))

Hi Dip

We are all here allgood, we's just spying on ya.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel like crap too.
Honestly, I think anything short of some kind of ephiphany, where my H literally seemed like another person to me, more appreciative of me & our family, was not going to salvage this mess.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Ats - we cross-posted & Dip.
Spying on me is mighty boring. Lol.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
blue_roses
♀ Member
Member # 32062
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi folks,

I've been avoiding the LTA thread in ICR because, well, I'm kind of compulsive about reading, and reading 24 parts before joining just seemed a tad unrealistic. So I'm going waaay out of my comfort zone and just posting *without* having read the history. I hope that's okay.

So, can any LTA BS join the club, or is there a secret handshake I need to learn?


BS - Me, 39
WH - 44: 10 year EA with ex-fiancee OW#1 (no remorse)
2 year EA/PA with OW#2 (hates my anger and questioning)
13 years married; 16 years total
2 boys
DDay 4/10/11, NC broken 6/8/11
Status unknown

Posts: 323 | Registered: May 2011 | From: South
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Naaah... no secret handshake. Though I must say, I was in a fraternity in college and years later found a friend's wife was in the same one at another campus -- and she did give me the secret handshake test! Very exciting.

Hey, ats, thanks. I know when I interviewed the MC and she said she couldn't help us that was very discouraging. My pdoc IC as well -- his "has he done?" list that I said no to everything ...

It's not that there's a magic formula -- except that there kind of is a magic formula. KWIM?

So, blueroses, welcome, and what can we do to help?


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
blue_roses
♀ Member
Member # 32062
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, m3.

Unfortunately, I have no idea what anyone can do to help right now. I think I'm just trying to find a place where I fit, having just had my world exploded, and it seems that a group of other people who've learned that a good portion of their marriages were a lie is the treehouse for me.

Still in shock, really. Coping, with meds. WH has gone NC and transparent, is reading (books and here), working through IC, dealing with the fallout - being the husband he should have been all along, but wasn't. I'm angry most of the time, and feeling HB tendencies.

That's very long-winded for "I don't know," eh?


BS - Me, 39
WH - 44: 10 year EA with ex-fiancee OW#1 (no remorse)
2 year EA/PA with OW#2 (hates my anger and questioning)
13 years married; 16 years total
2 boys
DDay 4/10/11, NC broken 6/8/11
Status unknown

Posts: 323 | Registered: May 2011 | From: South
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ugh. You're right, ATS, it's not a dealbreaker, it's the lack of remorse. As long as he keeps rug-sweeping or shutting down any attempted conversation about the A by describing it with the words "it was just" there is "just" no hope. ("it was just a continuation of something from the past, but it's over now and nothing like this will ever happen again, I promise." Sorry, dude, your promises don't carry any weight anymore.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

blueroses, sounds like you're doing great, under the circumstances.

I got a nice compliment from a friend -- one that you can hold onto too when you're having a tough time -- she said, "well, no matter what ultimately happens, you're going to be incredibly strong after this and nothing in life will ever throw you for a loop again."

We all start off here very low, but emerge as our kevlar-winged butterfly selves.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m33-
I agree with Ats...
for some infidelity is a deal breaker but...in your case it sounds as if your husband's lack of remorse and continued hurtful behavior is what may be the problem.
Willow... from what you wrote about your husband he does not sound very remorseful and he is continuing to hurt you.
Doesn't he care about you and how he is hurting you? or...is the 'high' he gets from continuing contact with the OW more important to him?
Your husband is NOT being a good husband right now.
And... a good father does not hurt the mother of his children.

How does he explain why his relationship with this woman is more important than your feelings?

[This message edited by njgal480 at 8:21 PM, June 1st (Wednesday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest- I can't believe the STBXH is coming back again! Seems like you just got rid of him? Hmm... wonder whats going on with the OW/wife? not as much fun I guess...
You know where I stand on allowing any of your sons to go to his country! Just too much of a risk. Especially since your STBXH spoke to you about taking his OC away from OW/wife.
Sorry that you are still grieving the loss of your marriage.
Have you ever had a chance to get the book: Transcending Post Infidelity Stress Disorder by Ortman?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats-
in his book 'The Five Love Languages' Chapman writes about filling each other's love tank.
Well....that's the only way that I have been able to reconcile.
Even before d-day my love tank was very very low...my husband was not meeting my needs. Then after d-day...it was below low.....totally empty.
If you remember I kicked my husband out of the house and filed for divorce.
My husband turned that around...he was relentless in his efforts to to save the marriage and to make amends to me...
he did everything possible to 'fill my tank' again.
From begging, pleading, sending letters, flowers, to getting sober, going to AA, going to IC, going to MC, going to Christian counseling.
Then..after 6 months when he moved back home... we had our recomittment ceremony, he bought us new rings, he showered me with gifts, attention,love, affection...he started doing everything with me!
all of the things that he had avoided in the past- movies, museums, concerts, plays, vacations, dinners ..you name it.

I realize now using the Chapman analogy- he was re-filling that love tank that he had drained completely.

I wonder if Tryin could do one of his beautiful graphic designs to illustrate this...

I think his wife did the same thing...she worked until the positive actions outweighed the negative memories....

It takes a long time to get to this point but it is possible.

Just some thoughts.

welcome to the newbies to our little corner of SI.
Sorry that you have to be here though.
Hope we can help.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest, miracle, m3...
This is not a new ah-ha. It's a recurring "oh yeah." And I've talked about it with WH. Calmly, screaming, sobbing... in tears, in MC, in writing... I have not tried mime yet or writing a song about it, but honestly... I'm unsure what to "do." Obviously he's a drama hag and I am not normally dramatic. I have zero idea why the man ever asked me to marry him. Though he asked me when I was in grad school and feeling pretty low about myself (having always prided myself on my intelligence, it was a bit of a shock to realize that I wasn't all that special among other people whose smarts also qualify them for master's level classes). But shiiiiiiit... I've been level-headed and easy-going for well over a decade, and until little miss happy panties offered up her goods on a cheap plastic tray, he describes himself as "happy" with me. I don't know. I had one MC tell me that I should be more demonstrative with my emotions (and told a story about how his wife ignored a request until he cried when she wouldn't do it). Yes, that MC is history. But the idea of him sobbing over the mail haunts me.

So, what am I going to do? Good question. Get WH rewired, is all I can come up with.

Okay, speaking of WH... his twat-hauler is back at the garage, so I have to toss the Boyos in my car and pick him up from work. Nell out.

Hi, blue-roses.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry that I've been MIA - it was a l-o-n-g, emotional weekend and I volunteered all day at the USO so I'm just now getting caught up with what's going on here in LTA-land.

Welcome to the newbies. I'm so, so sorry that you had to find such a place, but rest assured you are with others who care about you.

I have not been able to read each and every post but just few comments....

ats - You've read "Co-Dependent No More" haven't you? It is an excellent book for those of us with co-dependent tendencies. I describe myself as the poster child for this condition! There were so many things that I was doing that I didn't even see were co-dependent and this book opened my eyes. I'm especially glad that I read it before the you-know-what hit the fan this past week.

As for the infidelity vs. lack of remorse being the deal-breaker...I have to say that it's really both for me. Although maybe if I saw some continued, truely sincere remorse I would feel differently. Alas, since I haven't been able to experience having a fully remorseful FWH there's little chance of me just getting over the infidelity.

Okay, does anyone else notice that every single time I say anything positive about WH's steps, it comes IMMEDIATELY after one of my breakdowns?!?! Does that scream "Emotional Manipulation" to anyone except me?
This has become a pattern in my sich as well. FWH seems to "get it" and then a few days later he's back with the blame-shifting and redefining "lying." He told me on Monday and again yesterday that he is angry with ME because it is my fault/decision to tell our boys about the LTA. He thinks we could have just said that we were separating but that it wasn't any of their business why. I guess he forgot the part about DS17 guessing the truth on his own. Oh, and when I told DS24 about the LTA he told me that he and his sister (DD22) had talked several weeks ago that they both suspected that one of us must have had an A to have caused such a rift in our M. So, these kids knew or suspected the truth all along. FWH was not happy when I said that there was a 100% fool-proof way for them to have never have found out about his LTA - it was to NOT HAVE AN AFFAIR! But it's my fault that they now know.....

I am beat down. I told FWH last week that when he seemed to "get it" that I would watching to see if it would "stick." Less than one week later he is back on the defensive and blaming me for this mess. He again talked about how he was "right" when he made the decision to sleep with OW without protection. He, and I, didn't get an STD, so as long as he was "right" I should be okay with that.

He feels like our entire M has been all about me. He started spouting off a list of things he had done for me and conveniently forgot about the times that I have supported him. I didn't realize that we were in a contest. I would have kept better notes.

Even if FWH was to do a complete turn-around at this point, I don't think that I could ever really trust him again. Not necessarily that he would cheat on me, but rather that he is not honest with me about his feelings. He complains about things from 20 years ago that he says he did for me and wonders why I won't give him a chance? I told him that on the basis of our first 22 years together I have been to IC/MC for the past 11 months with little to show for it. He maintains that he has done everything I told/asked him to do and now I'm just being self-centered and egotistical.

He leaves on Friday to go to Onsite and will be out of touch for the week. Frankly, it will be a relief for me.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Strongish -

1st off - sounds like your kids are ok. That's great.

I wanted to comment, tho, because so many things in your post resonate with me.

He told me on Monday and again yesterday that he is angry with ME because it is my fault/decision to tell our boys about the LTA

I got this too from stbx - when I decided to tell his sister, because I'm close with her & I suspected that she knew something was going on with the 2 of us anyway. No, I didn't have to tell her the LTA part & I tried not to, but, you know - people want to know why a marriage splits up, especially when it looks like a pretty good marriage from all appearances. I felt really relieved to have told her as I have only a few people irl who know about this. But, he immediately turned it on me too - that if her kids overhear her discussing it with her H - then our kids will know (they are very close), etc.
It's so frustrating. I tried to explain that my inability to take HIS secret to my grave and my need for a little emotional support in managing the aftermath of what HE caused doesn't make it my fault.
He doesn't get it either. You know why? They're selfish. This is the way they see everything.
It really is remarkable that people with such little ability to control their impulses expect such an unbelievably high level of restraint from us in managing the destruction they caused.

He, and I, didn't get an STD, so as long as he was "right" I should be okay with that

OMG - almost word for word.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:37 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

strong: first and foremost, its so good to see you, i was worried bout ya, i knew it had to be an awful emotional time for you...and in the midst...volunteering at the uso, you are an amazing woman...so way to go..

i am sure the relief you feel is somewhat surprising and overdue....i think once your dd knows too you will find some peace in not having to keep the secret...

ok...strong and allgood: selfishness really has nothing to do with both of these men not wanting people to know...its called not wanting to face what they have done in yet more faces....strong when i was reading your post about ur ws the thought of a dog in fear popped in my head...they love you, but if afraid will not think twice about biting you and both of your ws's are reacting out of fear...

who really wants the world or anyone to know something that they did that was so hurtful to another, and to their kids and ultimately a really stupid thing to do...not an easy task for healthy people let alone people who are not healthy...and lets face it, not too many of our ws's are healthy..certainly not the ones who show true remorse....

welcome blue roses....and reading all 24 parts would be quite an undertaking...some of us or i should say most of us have not been here that long....some of us are here longer then others....some of us are in successful reconcilliation (not me), some of us are in active reconcilliation (not me) and some of us will divorce when possible (yes me)....

lta= long term recovery,so keep that in mind on your journey.....

so welcome, i hate that you are here but glad you found us....and whenver you are ready jump on in and tell us what we can do or just share the latest in your story...i read your profile, you are a newbie so your wounds are raw...so please take the time to read the healing library if you have not already done so.....i am sorry for your pain, and remember you are not alone, and you are not crazy, we go through lots of shit in this damned journey....

and i am happy for you that since finally establishing what he wants he seems to be doing right by you...and yes it would have been so much better if there was no tt....


(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For Allgood, Strongish, Willow ....
this is a link to an article in The Healing Library (for the newbies...it can be found in the yellow rectangle on the left).
The article is about the right and wrong way for the WS to approach reconciliation. I'm sure there are other articles on the subject too...
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/reconciliation/right_wrong.asp


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:43 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

another great article from the Healing Library that outlines everything that the WS needs to do to reconcile!
It addresses so much of what everyone has been discussing... telling the kids, blaming the BS, taking ownership, going 100% NC with the OW/OM...

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/reconciliation/reconcile_musts.asp


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:27 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood: I needed the 2 x 4's!! I know you have my best interests at heart. You are absolutely right, no matter what, he has shown his true colors.
Your WH is upset because you told his sister-in-law? Well, too damn bad. He wasn't worrying about who knew at work. He wasn't hiding it there. You should tell him that when you told her, she already knew...through the grapevine and that a lot of people know already! Stupid ass. They don't want to suffer any consequences for their actions. geez.

Miracle: Thank you so much for everything. I'll have to write another post, because I didn't take notes from the previous page!!

Blue Roses: Welcome to LTA. You do not have to read all 24 threads!!! You don't even have to read all of this thread. Don't worry about keeping up with us, you are still new and raw. Just post and vent and we'll get to know each other.

M3: I agree with the others that it is not entirely the A, but what comes later: the TT, the blameshifting, the gaslighting, the lying, etc. that really destroys the marriage and our self esteem. I guess that's what they mean that you can R with a remorseful spouse, but not one who is still hurting you with all that crap.

Strongish: Don't listen to WH anymore. He is lashing out at you and trying to blameshift, again. I'm glad that you told your children. Now your WH needs to put on his big boy pants and face the consequences. He says the entire marriage was about you? So you decided to have the A with OW? You just tell him, that the S is all about you.

NJgal: WH was talking about coming next week. Now he is at me again about me coming there with the kids. I told him no, but he's pestering me. Pain in the ass. He was talking about fixing the pool finally, it's actually a danger zone right now, but I don't trust him at all anymore. He has lied about everything.

God, DS 16 is soooo smart. We were talking about cars and he said that he was not counting on his father helping him out to buy a car when the time comes. DS says that "dad will find a loophole somehow to not to do it"

OMG!! That is WH to a "tee"!!

Kids are much sharper than we give them credit for.

Nell: It seems your WH is so out of it he needs a smack on the head to wake him up to see what is going on under his nose! He is probably one of those people that thinks everything is ok until someone yells and complains loudly that something is wrong. He is in his own little world and reacts enough to "fix it" temporarily, not realizing that is not the way to do it. Just putting up some spackle will not stop the leak, you need to go to the source of the problem and he probably does not know how.

Hi Dip! I actually BBQed myself this weekend. Just hamburgers and hotdogs, though. Luckily the grill didn't go on fire. When I went to the store the other day, I saw a "grill wok" and thought of you and how you like to grill everything.

Tryn: I printed that last chart that you posted. It was very good.

Willow: I hope you keep posting and venting. There are a lot of great people here to help you.

{{{{{{tribe}}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:32 PM, June 1st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thought I would post this for a laugh. This is the new dog we adopted from the shelter. He must think he's a cat or a bird. Gives a new definition to "Mighty Dog"

(He got up there by pushing out the screen on a window on the side of the house)

ETA: Don't know how to make the pic bigger.

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 11:33 PM, June 1st (Wednesday)]


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 6:20 AM, June 2nd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

Still fighting those gators. Tough little SOBs. Read when I can and think of you always.

Welcome newbies. You will find support, comfort and help here.

love to all

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
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