...or my son is going to school without socks.
He is going for the preppie look eh allgood?
Laura, awesome job of catch-up. I am more than impressed.
Yes, I am. I asked this question to help settle some things in my mind before moving on. To tackle some of the questions in my mind, but not as comfort.
I want to say welcome to the newbies. I didn't keep notes, and would like to respond to everyone. Just know that I have you in my prayers.
NJgal: With my first xWH, drinking was involved. I really believe in his case, where, as ironic as it may sound, he was/is a very moral person. I believe that OW had become a drinking buddy and went after him, and as he was unhappy in general the boundaries were down. He may have wanted to leave the M anyway because we were married too young, but drinking played a huge part with him. He still is a functioning alcoholic.
I believe that your FWH made the turn around because he did finally hit bottom, as they say in AA, and was able to make that turn around. Do you go to Al-anon meetings? It might help a bit, even now after he's been sober for a while. It just seems to me that the A was a symptom of the "disease" (alcoholism) in your WH's case. OW was a drinking buddy and being with her didn't remind him of the reality of life and was a symptom of his complete denial. Perhaps EMDR may help you now.
Laura: Your WH with the projects. Hmmm, some impulsiveness there. Does he have symptoms of adult ADD? A lot of people who have that engage in affairs because of the impulsiveness. Just a thought that occurred to me. DS 12 has ADD and a month or so ago, DS16 says to me, "Does Daddy have ADD like DS12?" When I asked why, he pointed out some of the similar behavior that WH does that are like his brother (that are symptoms of ADD. DS 16 has NEVER read about ADD at all, it was just his observations)
I'm feeling better and better without the anti anxiety meds. I did really need them at first, or I don't think I'd be here typing right now. I feel less lethargic and more in control, but of course I'm feeling the emotions more intensely than before, but am better able to handle them. Not completely there yet.
I will try to go back and make notes to comment more. You guys were very busy yesterday and I get a combo of parent brain/senior moments/LTA brain dysfunction wrapped up all together sometimes!
Love to you all!
I continued my mini-meltdown with stbx today. He just thinks this is not working. That marriage should be easy & enjoyable and that was not the way it was for us. I told him I disagreed about his view on marriage, but I saw it was going nowhere, so I abandoned the conversation pretty quickly. I did tell him tho that I will never understand how you love someone, but not willing to do what it takes to keep that person. I guess it all comes down to effort & expectations & as he seems to expect some sort of joyful, wonderful marriage without putting in any effort, well, I guess that explains it all. I told him we must have different definitions of love then. Says he loves me & misses me already. I told him "I could tell".
Told him there was no point in us going out to have some closure, etc. as we had planned. We will just meet at home after the kids go to bed & sort out what we will tell the kids & whatever it is that he wants to take from the house.
Thanks for the book suggestion NJ; I have put it on wishlist but at the moment I am not interested in R, I have spend so much time thinking about R that right now I am going to look for the books on separation that I bought last summer when I was determined to S. Am doing really well on the 180 at the moment.
(((hugs))) to all, have read posts here and am so glad to be part of it, and again, sorry I was a bit touchy on my second post. It has taken me a long time to come here to LTA - the 2 years mark was December 2009, although I didn't know that until April 2010. Denial I guess, fuelled by false hope offered by WS.
I did tell him tho that I will never understand how you love someone, but not willing to do what it takes to keep that person. I guess it all comes down to effort & expectations & as he seems to expect some sort of joyful, wonderful marriage without putting in any effort
Someone asked about drinking. Due to some medication he was taking, WS was not drinking at all around the time or soon after A with OW1 started, and he was on that medication for about a year. The new meds allow drinking. He has never been a heavy drinker, and will have a small amount of wine or beer with a meal, or a small scotch or brandy after. Have noticed this week he is having wine, and a bit more than usual, and the brandy as well.
I am no stranger to relationships with alchoholics, and have worked on my issues regarding this years ago. However, WS is probably a workaholic. And now seems to be addicted to infidelity. I really cannot be in the house with a heavy drinker - I hope he doesn't add this one to his list.
As for me, food has been my "drug" of choice, but have been slowly yet surely dealing with food issues in IC.
Frozen or home made pizza? Gas, electric or charcoal grill?
I want to thank you all so very much.
NJgal, no alcohol certianly doesn't help.
Strong -- I will read that book. My Mom is uber co-dependent so my coping mechanisms for something like this clearly suck.
Had coffee with an IRL friend this AM.
See -- WH is like Nell's do-gooder narcissist: he's spectacular to everyone in the world except me, 2 of the kids, his mom and his sister and one of his nephews. -- anyway, IRL friend is pushing me to do MC. She has a point. She's got the same attitude ATS had -- the behavior has got to stop or WH has got to go, and no one really cares why he's been a jackass, but her main point was that MC would help us either way because it (a) exhausts all alternatives (miracle's path of least regret) (b) would improve a co-parent relationship if we D.
Anyhoo... that's about it for me except I want to give you all such huge thanks.
I honestly just don't care anymore. Really. But my friend is right that trying MC would be better for the kids no matter what the result.
Where do you (not the M, not your WS) want to be in 6 months, a year, 3 years? Start stepping towards those goals.
This is a good commentÖ.want to remember that one. I go in a cycle Ė it looks like this:
Decide to work on myself. What do I want? Can I live with this M right now? What does it look like eventually? Stay humble, pray, read, let go, soak in blessings, work on the process of forgiveness.
THENÖ..we go to MC or I feel lonely with him sitting in the room, or he travels, or I trigger for no damn reason, or I ask him a question or discuss something too deep for him and he looks at me like I have two headsÖÖ.
So I then I let the dark side of Ego inÖ..How could he, he refuses to change his boundaries and yet I have to be patient with his rug sweeping. I could do better than this. I donít have to put up with this. I am working so hard and he is wanting to wave a wand back to pre d-day. I canít believe I didnít notice he was that shallow. (ALL about him) Or, Iíll physically feel the knife of pain in my chest and wonder, how am I willing to still be here. Iíll go after him, telling him how to treat me and how heís not working hard enough. Iíll question if Iíll ever be able to trust him.
THENÖ Iíll look at the kids, adoring him. Iíll think about what life would be like, meeting his surely much younger girlfriends or co-parenting with him. Iíll hear a word of advice that resonates with me about progress going slowly. Iíll go to church and hear a message that hits me. Then Iíll gather the strength to settle back into the work.
Itís the craziest thing imaginable. Itís exhaustingÖ..and I sure hope itís worth it. I take my eye off the M and put it on him. You are right, I need another goal.
Thanks again for the book recommendation. I put it on my Kindle and I've been reading it the last hour or so and it is EXACTLY what I needed to read. Can't wait to finish it.
Awakened by truth -- I'd say you should read it too. I'm about 4 chapters in and I think it would be helpful for you.
Oh, and BTW -- next time you start imagining meeting your WH's much younger girlfriend -- instead force yourself to imagine your WH meeting YOUR much younger boyfriend! Cougars are in, you know.
1st, WH broke NC last night. 26 calls/hangups to her between 3-4am. He told me today he basically did it to spite me.
2nd, had my gyn appointment. She felt something she didn't like and I need a biopsy. Rest of the results (pap and stds) will take 10 days to come back.
I know it's not the best solution, but I am crawling inside of a bottle tonight. No driving. I'll be at home. May post more later when I'm a little bit drunk.
I do not know how to cook on a gas grill. For a home made pizza, the charcoal grill needs to be one that will let you cook at least 500 degrees and has a way to cook indirect. That is you have to be able to place a barrier between the fire and the pizza. The pizza also needs to be on a pizza stone. Maybe one of the grill guys/gals here that use a gasser can chime in with a good gas grill method.
The marriage should be enjoyable and easy? Well wouldn't that be nice? That sounds sort of like a LTA. Except for the lying and sneaking around the A is enjoyable and easy. No real life bullshit to get in the way. Damn he just does not want to grow up. BTW, I do know that I am not really someone who should be pointing out that another person needs to grow up.
Dip: Damn that grilling sounds mighty complicated. Now I know why you disappear for days at a time...
And yes, perhaps a younger boyfriend would be the case....I DID just finally get the breast aug I have been procrastinating about. I'd say that puts me right square in the cougar category.
[This message edited by awakenedbytruth at 6:31 PM, June 8th (Wednesday)]
Guffaw. He spent last night calling and hanging up on her just to mindfuck me, and wants to know if I want him at my biopsy? I need support, not mindfuck games.
He's said he needs more counseling, maybe 2-3x per week. Damned straight. I'm hurt, beyond recognition, yet I do not purposefully try to play with his head. Asswipe.
I have another bottle here, which will likely be finished (small bottles, not large ones). Biggest diff between he & I is that drunk, I am down on and hating myslef, playing mind games with myself. Drunk and hating himself, my FT plays mind games with me.
How's that for love? Don't see it right now.
Trying to get in to see the lawyer tomworrow or Friday. Have taken the days off from work. My boss, who is an XBH, doesn't know why I put up with this shit and had a two-hour conference with me today about the trainwreck I am.
Doesn't bode well for my promotion, eh? Damn my fucking WH, on top of everything else, he fucks up my career, and I'm not even the one who fell into someone else's genitals.
I am only 1.5 sheets to the wind; may post more when I get all the way to 3.
first and foremost...i hope everything turns out ok with your biopsy, i will be praying for you...
as for your ws...you know let him be there, let him help you, let him do whatever you need doing...USE him....keep your distance and USE him....when its all over, biospy is done, you are fine...revisit your stance, but until then USE him....
as for the drinking, hell you deserve it tonite, i hope thought that you dont go too overboard, otherwise you be feelin all day tomorrow and possibly the day after....
and he is an idiot for the record...we will have to add him to the idiots list...
allgood: no 2x4's....none, you fall off the wagon that will be in itself its own 2x4...
honest: you do sound good, you sound like you are beginning to stand on solid ground again...i am glad you are coming off the ad's...
whispering...i too had suffered some major verbal abuse, emotional too...and it sucks...never again...if pfm ever goes there again with me or the kids, i will wait for nothin..he's outta here...and that is pretty much one of the few requirements i laid out that he has abided...of course that is not one for reconcilliation, that one is to just be allowed to remain in the home period!!!reconcilliation had its own list..and of course those were another story
keep on comin here whispering, keep on posting...i find the more i post the most the cathartic it is...
ok, small story....as most of you know, in the fall i joined a gym..well there was this man, an old man, who kept on looking at me and trying to get friendly,...not friendly in a i am comin on to you way, although that was the feeling i got, i felt like he was a lech and a creep...so for the most part i kept my distance, well this old man is there every nite, and for the most part i am too....and in all this time i have seem him talking to many people...well i began to think my first impression might have been off, so when he said more then hello i talked back, keeping it simple and distant...
well fast forward to tonite, i am talking to this woman in my aqua class, and she and i had talked many times, and she related that she was a bs, well tonite she is telling me all about her husband, we started the convo talking about wiener...got around to our idiot husbands,...well in telling me about her husband she slips in his name, not a common name...well lo and behold the old lech is her husband...
first impressions are usually on the money!!!
Strong: Congrats on opening up your own checking account. I remember when I opened up my first one after xWH #1 left and I made sure I got the prettiest checks they had! As for the history being deleted on the computer, there probably is a way to find out what it was. At this point, it may be best to just disengage with WH and to keep up with the 180. I do understand wanting to look to be sure of what he is doing, but the more NC, the better.
Allgood: There is no reason to go out with WH, unless you think that he may act more reasonable in public? I would suggest that you may both need to make a list of what WH is going to take with him. I reminded first xWH that a lot of things in the house were for the kids, like TV's etc.
Allgood, the only thing I can say is try not to have closure at this time. He is not going to give it to you the way you want and need it. He is not doing this on purpose, but he has no idea how. Just be as kind and as cooperative with him and yourself at this time. Remember, you are separating, not D. Work on yourself and stop focusing on WH and what he thinks and does. I know how hard it is to do and I'm trying to follow my own advice
Willow: Yes, a lot of the behavior that a non remorseful WS engages in is like abuse. Especially the blameshifting, rugsweeping, gaslighting , TT, etc. He is not admitting to wrongdoing. He is pointing his finger at you and saying, "You made me do it!! If it wasn't for you, I wouldn't have done it!!"
As I have told WH many times, I'll take 50% of the marriage problems, but the A was his decision. He did not come to me and discuss it. I didn't tell him to do it. I was in the same marriage having problems and perhaps just as unhappy as he was and I did not make the decision to have an A. Just as we tell the kids, it's ok to feel angry/sad/etc, but it's not ok to go around hitting/breaking things etc because you are angry or upset. It's NOT your fault. Look at all the marriages you may know of where one spouse may be drinking, doing drugs, etc or is mean/bitchy and the other spouse does not have an affair.
M3: It sounds like you have a wise IRL. I agree with her. A MC may help your relationship with WH, whether or not you stay together. At least you both will know you tried your best to save the M and if you decide it cannot be saved, you will respect one another for trying. It may help you see things more clearly in the relationship, and it can only help.
awakened: this part of trying to decide what to do is very hard. It is ok to waver back and forth and completely normal. You are making a lifetime decision and should take your time. Look at all options available. Miracle often says to take the path of least regret, which is sometimes our only option since we may not be able to have what we want (like wishing the A never happened)
Blue Roses: I am so sorry that your WH broke NC. Not only that, but what he said was very hurtful that he did it to spite you????
Try to reread the healing library. Write down what your boundaries are. Tell WH that NC is a must for R and that you want to be treated with respect. I'm so sorry for all the pain you are going through. You are in my prayers with the biopsy. I hope all goes well. Please keep us updated.
Miracle: what a story!! Makes you want to go over to that man and hit him on the head with a barbell!!! At least your gut is working right again!!
Poor woman, though.
I am not off the AD's but the anti anxiety meds. For the first time in ages I'm beginning to feel, "Hey, maybe I can handle this problem or that problem" instead of feeling overwhelmed by everything.
IC said today that I'm a conflict avoider, such a good one that I should teach courses and if I were in charge of the world there would be no more wars, just peace, BUT I would be unhappy. Yes, I am. I am trying to avoid WWIII with WH right now, but this must be resolved. I know why too, I can be very good at discussing things or "debating" where no emotions are involved, but once I get into a heated discussion with someone I care about, those emotions kick in, they take over and I'm so vulnerable and I end up retreating and/or crying.
What a mess.
Dip: wow, all that on a charcoal grill? You amaze me!!
Hugs to the tribe.
Bout all I can type. Second bottle down. Done for the night.
We'll see if FT comes through or not. Unfortunately, I do not hold out much hope.
Thanks all for your thoughts. Hopwefully I'll bw able to see past myself soon.
We have been talking job opportunities, and she seems very on board with the idea if me taking a much higher prestige job 4 hours away and commuting back on weekends. She gets security, and no dealing with intimacy.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 3:47 PM, June 9th (Thursday)]
I asked him about what he thought marriage was TO HIM, not for an argument, just his opinion.
m33, I think your friend has hit on a good idea. To use the MC as mediator or arbitrator seems logical. Are you going to try it?
(((((allgood))))) Nothing else to offer. Like you say Ė ugh.
Hope your results are clear. Your H is just a self centred arse. Look after you. (((((blue_roses))))
Looks like we had a pool of drinkers last night. I hope you all survived and donít feel too hung over. I did a LOT of drinking in the early months and strangely for someone who would be guaranteed a migraine the next day, I would wake with a clear head. And start again as soon as I knew I didnít need to be behind a wheel. Hugs to you all.
Me, no way I will ever stay with a woman choosing not to love me. I would be scared, but I would not live with feelings like that. Life is too short. Your W seems lost trying to find something? what is it? A new life perhaps? Move, for security? Is she afraid of you leaving?
My w is way too afraid to make a decision like divorce. Me, I am not.
blue_R... it is all so fresh and I can remember those exact things you do, I did. Take your time and just "feel" right now. Take in the hurt and know you will get better in a few months. Try and stay postive by knowing you would make a perfect partner for many men in this world. You are doing nothing wrong and the choices your H made was his choices. Now, he must realize that infidelity causes trauma. He did that to you because he is selfish. He wanted his family and you. You and extra romance because of his inablity to communicate to you! He had poor boundaries. Have courage!
I hope you guys feel better today. Lots of water!
[This message edited by trynhard at 5:52 AM, June 9th (Thursday)]