Nell: I'm happy to hear that your son is feeling better. Documenting everything can help in the diagnosis. sounds like that gf is some piece of work!!
Nofun: That's funny about dead husband's prayer circle! LOL. I'm sorry that you feel that your WH never really loved you, but I think a lot of the WS's loved us as much as they were capable of, which, in reality isn't really enough. Whether or not they can learn to do so is another story.
Allgood: I'm sorry you didn't have a good night. Hopefully you can a girls' night out very soon.
To make a long story short, WH rescinded the D and we are "married" again. I told him that this is really more of a S now so we can try to discuss things without emotion about what we are going to do. I wanted to buy myself more time. I thought I wouldn't get emotional, was detached enough.
Then asshole says what he really wants so he doesn't have to travel back and forth is for me and the DS's live overseas for 3 years, and then the OC's and OW come here to the US for 3 years!!
I thought I could be beyond being hurt. I have to harden my heart and get going. I have talked the good talk for almost 2 years, but was really unable to do anything about it. IC said I was in PTSD and that is why I couldn't do anything. I felt so strong, and this is a setback.
I want to be able to self soothe, but have such difficulty.
Sorry for the ramble.
Love to everyone.
hope you are doint better today...
ok ,lets gain a bit of perspective here....he really has more quotes in the the stupid shit the ws says then any other im thinkin...
he is an idiot...and is not capable of being compassionate towards you, not capable of normal, not capable of decent...what he is capable of...well he is capable of being ridiclusly stupid....bordering on insanity stupid...
and when he says the stupid shit he says....ignore ignore and ignore....
you have a path laid out, you want or need to buy yourself more time, fine, but stay "s", for your own peace of mind, stay the course....
the sooner and faster you take it home though, the faster you will heal.....and that much sooner for you to gain all the balance you feel you have lost...
big time 180....
Wow. Thank you for helping me put it in perspective.
It still hurts like hell, and I thought I was beyond it....not yet, I guess
Thanks so much for the hugs.
Put simply FWH home all day yesterday. Lots of rain so just pottering around the house. All day he kept talking about wanting to buy a new this or that. Never mind that we already have 5 of each that we never use and sometimes struggle to meet the mortgage payments.
Finally he started on about buying new cutlery. We have servings for 12 for kitchen and 12 for dining room. 24 servings for 2 people who rarely entertain at home. (Left over from the days I used to do the family Christmas). High quality stainless steel in excellent condition.
Local store had some 30% off so he wanted to buy some. I quietly said no we don't need them, he argued these were so much better (they aren't) and so cheap we should get them. Such a stupid little thing but really who he is. Always wanting more and better. Never satisfied.
eg We own 3 boats (2 canoes and a runabout). He used one canoe a half dozen times then decided he needed a better one. The new one is in the garage and has not been used since he bought it four years ago. He is trying to sell the small boat as he now decides he doesn't like it (never used it either.)
Lots of rambling but the same point. No matter what he has he is never happy.I guess that's why he was looking to upgrade me!!! I pointed this out which led to fireworks, tears and me hitting the bottle. I have suffered for my foolishness this morning with THE WORST hangover.
Thank you so much for your concern everyone. I am Ok.
Keep pressure on those docs. it took more than 3 yrs for them to diagnose DS with Marfans and he nearly died from a collapsed lung before they worked it out. Lucky we stumbled on the right one when he was flown by air ambulance to Sydney for emergency surgery. Keep pressure on them. You need an answer.
What miracle said!!!!
I also was hoping he'd get his head out of his arse after his week at Onsite.. Hugs honey
He said that he knows he has a lot of work to do on himself before we can work on us.
Hope he really means this and starts right now!
Second night in a row fww is on a couch. Her job loss is taking me back to 2008
Honey why is it that while we are dealing with As other aspects of life get tough too. So hard. So unfair. HUGS
So here I am accepting what is as I always have done.
The big question for all of us is "Is it enough?" I know you struggle with this and wish I had the words to help you. HUGS
FWH is at the hardware store as he stuffed up with some materials for the closet renovation which he didn't end up starting yesterday. Will be back soon so will have to go.
I think he does love me and he put up with my temper tantrum last night quite well so I guess I just have to keep trying. Sigh
Love you all
HUGS to everyone
laura: is he in ic...he seems to have this need for distractions...big time avoidance from being quiet....and i dont mean not talking, but still, without something to occupy his mind....major league avoidance and i wonder why...im really thinkin you need to get to the bottom of it, or i should say he needs to get to the bottom of it...its a huge issue and its keeping him with a toe out.....and he needs to be ALL IN...
honest: your ws does not have compassion and never did, he cannot empathize either...he is all about HIM...what he needs, what he wants and how he is best going to get it without doing anything he doesnt want to do...or if he does he wants to do the minimum amount of work...and hon that aint ever gonna change...and your expectation of it needs to change...when we change our expectations we hurt less...if you werent expectin it you cannot be disappointed or hurt...or at least not at the same level when the expectation is there....
Laura, I hear what you are posting. We seem to be holding onto the knot at the end if the rope that is our M and fww talks about wanting a porch swing and how something really good will come from our current such. I wish I could live in that world.
FWW was on the couch the last two nights because she did not want to disturb or wake me. Today she was hanging on me, and sent an email apology to my folks for what she has done. After an evening watching a movie in bed with her clinging to me, I kissed her. She got out of bed to brush her teeth, came back and curled up and went to sleep. Said she ate too much and with the wine it knocked her out. Fuck, or actually no fuck. She talked this evening about her IC on Friday. To me it sounds like after a life of basing her value on attention from men she is rejecting male attention, and I am thrown into the pot with all the others who used her in exchange for attention. We have some MC sessions scheduled, but I am no longer hopeful.
I lined up references and submitted my application for a more high profile position that will restart my career. She is thinking it could be a new start for us, I am thinking a fresh start for me. If this position does not work out, there are two more positions in the works that I know of in the SE.
She has improved her outlook and perceptions much, but I begin to fear that an emotionally intimate relationship is not possible with her. It is not that she is not trying, I wish that were the case, but there is just so much emotional damage from her parents, a rape, OM (5 I know of in her life), and her xH. Do I want to be a nurse or an X?
Lately she has made comments about women (professors, roommates) she has had crushes on, or sexual comments about gay appearing women on TV. That she has always fantasized about women. For those who have seen my pictures, that does not bode well for me.
your ws does not have compassion and never did, he cannot empathize either...he is all about HIM...what he needs, what he wants and how he is best going to get it without doing anything he doesnt want to do
Definition of a narcissist!! I didn't just want to put WH in a category, but there it is! I have to make a mantra to myself: "He's NPD, NPD with borderline traits OR BPD with NPD traits....or just plain messed up"
He is a bottomless pit of need and narcissism.
There it is...."bottomless pit of need" = BPD. My IC said that my mother's BPD has me trained to put up with this behavior. It's something that is familiar to me, although toxic. <sigh>
Oh, Ats, this job loss did not come at a good time. If you take another job in a different area, I understand that it may be more money, but what about relocating? What about DS? A lot of things to think about.
It's good that Mrs. Ats has another IC appointment soon and I wish your MC appt. was sooner.
Did she ever express this interest in women before, or is this just something she is thinking about in reaction to :
To me it sounds like after a life of basing her value on attention from men she is rejecting male attention, and I am thrown into the pot with all the others who used her in exchange for attention.
Look, all I can see is that she is NOT rejecting YOU per se, it's all her issues. She does love you to the best of her ability, I'm sure of that.
You've helped her as much as you can. You have shown your love a thousand fold. Now, take your time and decide what is the best course of action for you. You sound like you are in a more of an acceptance place right now, which is great. You have come a long long way. Please keep posting and venting.
So, were you able to tell him the terms you wanted in s? Or were you unable to see past your rage? (Justifiably).
Honest - if nothing else the man has been consistent. Lick your wounds, I know it still stings, but get back to him asap if you haven't already. Enough buying time, it's getting you nowhere. YOu can do it. I really really wish we could put some sort of voice changer thing on your phone & I could talk to him as you. Lol. That would really entertain me.
Bite the bullet & finally, let's see what he's willing to do.
Laura: what was your H's response to your take on the sitch?
Ats: I agree she is not rejecting you or attention to you. She does appear to be rejecting a sexual relationship with you tho. And, I know you are in a good place, you seem like you are ready to move on. I hope you can discuss this in MC. Despite her actions, I do feel bad for your wife. She should have some warning if that's what you're going to do, a chance to correct it.
All I got.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 6:04 AM, June 12th (Sunday)]
Have been thinking especially of strongish... does your WH mean "I need to focus on myself with some deep, deep IC so that I can become the person I should and want to be, and the husband that you deserve" or "I need a break because this shit is too hard."???
To me, it looks like he is just beginning the journey that I started on DDay. Some of the things he is saying are exactly what I was saying 10 months ago. For the first time, he is really contemplating a life without me in it and he doesn't know how to act or feel or what to do. I NEED for us to S so his agreement that that's what he needs as well is a relief to me. We've talked so much the last two days and I'm thinking that this may be the nicest S ever.
I can't tell you how good it feels to have him look at me as a separate person, with wants and needs that are sometimes the same but sometimes different from his. He spent considerable time just thinking about me, and what kind of person I am, what kind of personality I have, what I like and don't like and came back pretty much thinking he's been lucky to have me. I told him that IF we do decide to try again, he will have to win me back. He agreed that that is exactly what he will have to do. But in the meantime, we both need to figure out what WE really want going forward. I'm spent more time thinking of this than he has, so in some ways I'm more ready than FWH is to move forward. On the other hand, DS17's senior year is coming up and I want his home life to be as stable as it can be with parents that are S.
Tribe, I can't recommend the Onsite program highly enough. It is expensive, but in retrospect, it would be worth borrowing the money to go. You talk about needing clarity....things became so clear to me and to FWH....from where we've been to where we are....we're still working on where we want to go.
ats - If there was any way for you and/or your FWW to go, it would be life-changing. I really am convinced of that.
Okay, off my soapbox now.
Laura...sorry that you're triggering. Infidelity is the gift that just keeps on giving.
Miracle - As always you are the glue here in the LTA forum. I don't know how you hold everything in your life together and still find the time and energy to console us. You are amazing.
Hugs to all.
[This message edited by strongish at 10:05 AM, June 12th (Sunday)]
when the ws "gets it", its finally feels like "ahhh, finally you know, you really know what i feel or at least as close to it as possible...you know what your actions have done to me, to us, to our children....you getting it means i can move on, you getting it means that if there is a future for us it is now not only possible but would be successful should that be a path WE BOTH decide upon because i know now that because you get it you will do everything you possibly can....
so yeah strong i am happy for you....
and it also means that if you decide to divorce you will do so knowingly that you both did what you could and you will have peace of mind because he 'knows' now what he's done....and if he really 'knows' and "gets it" he will be the model 'ex'
willow...how are you hon?
oh and jollum...when you last you posted you passed a comment about comin out of lurkdom...i think you should come out more often...i actually think all of you lurkers should come out a play more often....
when you get it out of your head, your system, your heart...just the act of getting it out is and can be so cathartic...it does not change your sich, what it does is help you cope, help you exorcise it...release the toxicity....and for those of you who dont post i hope you at least journal...it truly can help you know....
when i first found si in the beginning right after d-day i lurked too...was too nervous to post, what would others think, what would i learn, can this really help and then what if i post and it doesnt help, what if this makes it worse somehow...i was already clutching at straws, and i joined early on...within a few months...and in those early days everyday held new information, everyday i learned of another betrayal of sorts, everyday he hurt me.....everyday i wanted to stay in bed, everyday i wanted to die, everyday i wanted him to die (still want this one), everyday i wanted to crawl into a hole and stay there...everyday i look at him i feel pain,...posting helps all of it....every last shard of it, this site and all of the wonderful people here all helped...even those posters who were not the nicest in their posts...they all wanted the same thing..for me to heal...where on earth can one go to have so many people pullin for them, rootin them on, prayin for them and even cryin with them...
god bless this site and god bless all of you...
As you know, I did separate from my husband right after d-day because I was so shocked, enraged, devastated etc. by the revelation of the LTA... but he began the work on himself immediately after d-day.
In your case... given what he has said etc. I'm thinking like Miracle....
do you think that he really needs to live apart from you in order to do all of this work on himself?
Its not like you are living in a volatile situation at this point.
And..if he needs to go to IC 2x per week so be it.
The money you save on maintaining a second household could go for all kinds of intensive couples therapy, weekends, and maybe some nice vacations too.
What do you think?
I am speechless. Your STBXH is just such an insensitive, clueless, narcissisit..its amazing.
Whether its part of his culture or not...he's lived in the US for long enough to realize that this business of ..I'm divorcing you... I'm un -divorcing...is ridiculous.
And...swapping households? moving the OW and children into your house and moving you over there? Why? so she can get her US citizenship?
Outrageous... totally outrageous.
If your two older sons ever get a whiff of this 'deal' being offered to you I can't imagine what they would want to do to STBXH! I feel like taking a punch at him!
How did this discussion make you feel? I hope it made you mad as opposed to sad.
You need to get angry at him and stay angry!
sorry for the vent.. but its upsetting to think that he would be so insensitive and unkind toward you.
Ats- Hope you are feeling ok.
It does sound as if your wife keeps uncovering layers and layers of 'issues'.
It must be so difficult for you.
He has ben looking at new vehicles for almost 2 years and he will not get one...as long as I am with him, he will not get one. He bugged the living daylights out of me 2 years ago because he insisted he needed this SUV and now he doesn't want it anymore. Tough shit...
What is with this? Just another issue to deal with I guess. I'm tired! Sometimes I just wish I would never wake up.
7am here and FWH has just left for work. Looking forward to a quiet day with my dog. Alos plan on rearranging my closet and talking to my SI friends.
Hey honey. It's their problem. Like little boys who always want a better toy. It's sad this never being satisfied. And yes we resent it cause we have always financed their silly grasping after a yet a bigger, better, prettier THING!! How sad that when they went looking for a better wife their OWs really were the old tired used up model No wonder they still weren't satisfied.
it's like buying gives him some sort of instant gratification.
They always think they'll be happier if they just have the next new model. Ows didn't do the job. Otherwise they would have traded us for them. In my case FWH searched high and low for an update. Had lots of test drives but none could measure up to me. Now there is a nice thought for today
Like you I plan to put my foot down. I have started small - with little things - but will work up to bigger in time. After dday I didn't have the energy for that battle but now I do.
Sometimes I just wish I would never wake up.
My FWH really does need IC. I have asked him to do something about it but he hasn't. Keeps saying he will. Of course he's always been used to me doing the organising for everything for him so time for him to grow up.
He didn't comment except to say he will stop buying things. I know he still doesn't get what I mean but can't blame him for that as I'm sure my explanation skills were sadly lacking during my booze filled meltdown.
Huge celebrations in order. I was teary reading your post. How wonderful for you both.
big time avoidance from being quiet....and i dont mean not talking, but still, without something to occupy his mind....major league avoidance and i wonder why..
Yep. He hates confrontations. Doesn't like to think about the tough stuff. When his world is uncomfortable he finds a new obsession to take his mind off his problems. The FDs are a perfect example. When he couldn't handle what he did to me post dday he became obsessed with them. Now EMDR has helped me things are a little better and he seems to have lost interest in them!!!
She has improved her outlook and perceptions much, but I begin to fear that an emotionally intimate relationship is not possible with her. ...there is just so much emotional damage ......Today she was hanging on me...in bed with her clinging to me..actually no fuck ... she is rejecting male attention.... I am no longer hopeful
She sounds to me like a sad, lonely, lost little girl.I have no words to help you. I wish I did. Hugs honey
Love your posts. You have such great insight and sharing your positive outlook is such a help to all of us. So pleased you hang around so much.
Willow, Jollum and other lurkers HUGS to you all.
[This message edited by Laura28 at 4:43 PM, June 12th (Sunday)]
ats: this is who she is, she is changing, she is making progress, her progress is slow and seemingly agonizing to both of you at times...
i would think at this point in order to move forward for both of you, ic and mc would be scheduled regularly...without cancelling, without postponning...
ats i think at this point in time this should be a requirements and not an option....i think knowing that she is actively working on herself and your marriage would give you a sense of peace to hang in there....
laura: i am also thinkin that mr laura too needs ic and mc....and i think it also needs to be a requirement in order for you both to move forward in your relationship....
fun: all the new toys...its simple really, part 1 is to keep up with everyone else..they are envious people in my mind....part 2...its like the shopaholic...you get a fix, it momentarily makes youfeel better about your life, when its a project like lauras fd it gives you a sense of purpose to your life...and its always temporary because that is not how to feel good about oneself or ones life...things will never make ones life good, it may make it better for a bit, but it won't make good....
distractions...they are all distractions....
In all honesty I could walk away from my home and leave everything behind because there is nothing in this house that is truly MINE. Oh wait, two dogs....and a sewing machine!!!
I would be embarrased to list everything that is my H's. It's truly embarrasing. And he is still miserable. My kids friends nicknamed him "Mr. Happy." What does that say about him? Fucktard, is what is says!
when you need the distractions its because you dont want to face the real reasons you are unhappy, whether its out of fear, fear and more fear....
the mentality is: "if i get me this great new gadget i will feel better about who i am, it will make me happy"...then he gets the fucking gadget...he feels better about who is for a bit, is happy for a bit, and then it wears off and then its on to the next thing...
now whether they feel better because they feel smaller then others who have, or they feel better because its like an alcholic, provides that momentary distraction, or like laura's husband i get the sense he needs a purpose to feel good about himself, i get the sense he is always wanting within himself...and cannot seem to be distracted enough from real life...
each of them has a different core reason, but the basics are the same...distraction from who they are..who they really are...
the rest of us who like ourselves, can look at ourselves in the mirror and dont feel the need to compete with anyone, escape anything, or afraid to face who we are....its hard to see and understand...although some of us, seeing who we turned into for our spouses, have different fears and we medicate to distract us from the pain....whether it be with going to the gym, a glass of wine...whatever it is.....
our ws's though have way different set of morals, values and sense of self....no integrity..whereas the only people most of bs's ever hurt is ourselves, that is even if we hurt ourselves...most of us just try to hide from the pain...
and when we are being proactive as most of us here are, we are not trying to hide from it, but heal it, some of us with small doses, others with large ones...but we ARE trying to heal....most of our spouses are not trying to heal with their distractions but to hide from who they are...
not sure is i am makin sense...there is a fine line...and not sure if i am describing it accurately or even close....
sidenote: it appears that i have attracted quite a large sum of mosquitos to my body or one really hungry little sucker...the itchiness is driving me insane...and i a mean insane...
You make a LOT OF SENSE!!!
Now I just have to try to ease, cajole, lead FWH to come to this understanding/conclusion himself. If I say it, he won't believe or see it but if he finds it himself then maybe...just maybe...
Very NPD. He keeps telling me that everything will be ok, of course FOR HIM.
Strongish, you sound good. I really admire your resolve and am glad that WH is getting it and is understanding how much of an ass he was. It's good to be validated.
Don't have more time, hopefully tomorrow.
Love to everyone.
Laura and Nofun-
Have you ever wondered if your husbands have adult ADD?
/they say you never outgrow it...and doctors can evaluate it and treat it in adults.