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User Topic: Long Term Affair - Part 25
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 6:19 AM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((0115)))

wecome to our little corner of si...i am so sorry you are here and glad you found us....glad you came out of lurkdom to reach out to us...

first off major hugs...second...about them being able to remember...there is so much that they are able to remember, and they pick and choose what they feel you need to hear and keep the rest....not remmbering on alot of it is an excuse...however, because its such a long relationship there will be lots that they won't remember....but the key points that you need as far as details should not be an issue....depending on those key points...if you want to know all the things she wore...not gonna happen...you should expect to know the frequency, again such a long relationship, will be impossible to pinpoint every time...but the frequency is another issue, he should be able to provide that, all of sex acts performed by each both ways, the buying of gifts both ways, where their meetings took place,did they have protected sex, etc....normal things that most people would remember about any relationship...

if you have not read the healing library please do so, including the stuff for the ws...that will give you an idea of what they are supposed to be doing to help in the healing of this...

please also take care of your self, breathe, and i mean really breathe, hydrate, eat if you can and get some regular exercise...and if you have a day here and there that you cannot get out of bed, then don't...but only for a day...

get yourself to ic, he needs ic too and you both need mc...make no decisions for at least 6 months from d-day...take the time you need to process all of the overwhelming information and emotion.....


awakened: i am so sorry, you ws does not "get it" and until he does or you feel he does you will not heal...right now he is being completely selfish...the only person he is thinking of is himself, and frankly he has been stuck in that mode for quite awhile...im sorry...and you will be ok....here you are in some major pain yourself and you were able to reach out to a newbie....you will be ok....

gotta run....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:08 AM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

0115… It sounds like our situations are close. Very long affairs and when they are co-workers, they have more than just a romance. It becomes a real relationship.
My question is how much did your W's remember?
Of course they remember the relationship. I am sure it was good too or it wouldn’t have lasted so long. But who are they kidding, living a life of a lie. Is that good? Do you feel good about yourself? I don’t think so. In their minds it was the perfect set-up… A spouse to do all the kid raising, cooking, cleaning, vacations, etc… an a lover on the side, partner at work etc. Yes, They remember it all. The good, the bad and Today they know the ugly.

How much do you need to heal?
I needed months and months. Today, 33 months out, the sting can still happen. Am I healed? I wish I knew what that meant because I know I will never be the old me. My innocence is gone forever. I will never look at my wife with a, “You are the greatest wife anyone can ever want.” I used to tell and think of her in that way, but I know she just isn’t. But I am OK with that today. She now treats me very well and I try everyday to do the same.

Maybe healing is about happiness? I love to finish a half marathon, I love to go to the casino, vacations, walk on paths through the woods, being with my kids in a “dip style” bbq, going out to a movie, the internet and this site, wine tastings, boating with my best friend, golf, gardening, driving through the country side by myself… I have happiness by doing those things. For me, I looked for happiness and have grabbed it for me.

I am not so worried about my W cheating anymore. If she does, yes it will hurt again. But I know now I can take this hurt.

I have learned a valuable life lesson. This stuff is suppose to happen to others, not me. But life is not that way. It can be cruel and harsh. So, you pick yourself up and move on.

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:15 AM, June 15th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How much do you need to heal?

What is the question: how much time? How much information? What is "heal"? Is it your own personal healing? Is it saving the M?

The answer is: it depends. How long it will take you to heal depends a lot on your own characteristics, your life experience, and the depth of feelings for your spouse.

For example, I was a raging mess. But, if I were in the same shoes with a different spouse 5 years from now it might not take that long to heal at all. In another M, my boundaries with my spouse would be different. My life experience (internalizing things like "people are not loving or loyal all the time") would be different...

How much do you need to know? To heal yourself -- you don't need to know even one thing more than what you know right now. To heal your marriage -- that's up to you. You can't have a wall of secrets in a marriage -- so that wall must be torn down. They'll remember about as much of that relationship as they remember of yours. They'll forget things. There are things about OW that I remember that WH does not or that he never even knew. For example, apparently he did not know he was not her only OM (BTW -- lesson learned: if you're friends with someone who cheats on their spouse you're taking a risk...)

Anyway, it's individual. I am close to healed from this on an individual level. I have bad days, but I always will. My WH has appeared to stay NC but that's about it. It's not just rug-sweeping here, it's more like a central vaccuum. So, my M is a little better because at least there are only 2 people here but it is nowhere near R'ed. We might get there and we might not.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

0115,
Horrible situation. And you're so new to this. I'm so sorry. Here's my list of to-dos for you:
1) Yoga/walking/running/swimming... something physical but not mentally challenging that will both get you moving and center you. I like yoga. Tryn runs. Miracle walks.
2) IC once a week or even more right now, just to help you process. I avoided IC for more than a year and I shouldn't have.
3) MC... I don't know... we did MC immediately but Mr. Nell was still lying and it was not at all helpful. Once we found an MC who specialized in infidelity, though, it got better. There are two trains of thought on this (immediately or only after WS has begun really sorting through his/her shit in IC) and I don't necessarily subscribe to either.
4) Tell a couple friends IRL because you're going to need a real shoulder to cry on from time to time. I chose a woman I was sorta friends with but knew she had gotten a divorce and her XH was living with one of his APs and she has been a life-saver. And another friend who has loaned me her home from time to time so that I could escape and think.
5) Practice breathing through the pain, like lamaze breathing. It's the only thing that helped my panic attacks. (Well, that and throwing up and crying.)
6) Insist on a timeline from your WH. It will probably take him a long time, but it should give you enough info that you will know what you're really dealing with, and you might be able to follow up with questions. And it may have a side benefit of making your WH sit down and look at the destruction he chose to bring into your M... necessary first step.
7) Mini-vacations away if you can swing it. Even "dog sitting" at a friend's house will give you a much-needed break. I found them to be the best moments of the whole first year.
8) Buy a copy of Linda McDonald's "How to Help Your Spouse..." book for your WH. Especially if he is not a reader. It's short and to the point, like a FAQ of this site, actually. For you, if you're a reader, get something interesting to read in between the copies of self-help and how-to books that I'm sure you have.

And post here often. I've found so much support among the tribe members!


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

deep,
I always ALWAYS get dog-sick when I first start a new job. I think it's the stress plus my immune system reacting to "new germs." Feel better. Make sure to hydrate and take care of you!


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
0115
♀ Member
Member # 31740
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From 01/15-04/15 the truth just kept changing. After 4/15 I felt that I finally had a picture of what the A looked like. I don't know details and never really asked him for them, I just wanted the big picture and a time line. I wanted to rewrite my life so I wanted to know how long this went on, when it started and stopped, how frequent.
I have asked and asked for this time-line and he tells me he's working on it.

Yesterday, I got phone records online and did a spreadsheet. He has sworn to me that he didn't love her (I believe that, he used her) that he would text or call her every three days or so and hook up every 3-4 months. The records for the last year (this went on for 12 years) show that he called or texted her everyday or at least 25 days out of every month. The calls could be as long as 30 minutes and sometimes there were over 500 texts per month. Do I believe they only hooked up every 3-4 months? Hell no. I didn't even care at this point, but I thought by now he would understand that I just need the truth. Am I totally off here? I can't believe a word he says, there is no decision of R or D, I just felt like I needed to know what it was to be able to start to heal myself. Are there any great books on dealing with LTA specifically?
Thanks so much.


BS (me) 49
FWH 49 newbeg2011
Married 29 years
Very Long LTA
DD 01/15/11-6/30/11
The hard work is done...let the healing begin.

Posts: 997 | Registered: Apr 2011
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell, That looks like a list I would have made!

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
0115
♀ Member
Member # 31740
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

trynhard

I do feel like I just want to get on with MY life. We have a very young son and I would rather not D but I can't even foresee R, not now maybe not ever. Can this be done? Just live separate lives in the same house and be happy?

awakened iwantamiracle m334455 ImNellNow Thanks for advice and to Laura who invited me :)


BS (me) 49
FWH 49 newbeg2011
Married 29 years
Very Long LTA
DD 01/15/11-6/30/11
The hard work is done...let the healing begin.

Posts: 997 | Registered: Apr 2011
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

0115… We have had many great debate about the love our spouses give to the AP here at the LTA thread. I happen to think there is no way you can have a relationship, especially LTA, without love. I believe strongly in the 5 Languages of Love. You read that book, it will tell you want it means when you have sex with someone. That is the love of touch. I have no doubt your H love that woman. The question becomes, can you accept it?

Let me give you an example about me. I know my W loved her boss and in many different ways. I cannot change that. But after dday, from every appearance, she is no longer in touch with him. She stopped loving him. Love is a choice. Anyway, I have allowed God to tell me if she does it. It’s faith. I have all the confidence the world that I will somehow find out without burying my head in the sand with my old poor past boundaries. You understand what I am saying? I have accepted it. Sometimes I cry when I think about my past. The timeline and information you need is necessary IMO. I now know my W. She had sex with her OM every week for years. Sometimes twice a week! I once calculated I was trespassed on more than 300 times. That was stolen from me. At the same time my wife manages to squeeze me in once a week or two. You would think she is some sex addict until I heard Dr Oz say 2-3 times a week is healthy. I know all these things and today, I am OK. I made my choice to love my W even though she loved someone else during our marriage. That is just me accepting it. I am no longer embarrassed. I really think my embarrassment went away by making the 1000 post here at SI. I could really talk to anyone about infidelity these days. I don’t want to talk about it if would somehow get back and hurt my wife. This is acceptance.

It takes time. It takes work. It takes openness. It takes making a choice for yourself. Thanks for sharing your story so I can share mine. It really helps me all the time and it’s like my story is minimized in some way. It just takes time and openness.

LTA books? None to LTA's. We should all write one! Anybody want to? I will have to get my book list when I get back home.


PS 011.. you can be fine if you D. It's not the end of the world. With 100% confidence, some man would love to have you. I know it! It happens all the time. You may even get to enjoy just you and your son.

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:47 AM, June 15th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
0115
♀ Member
Member # 31740
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What is so hard for me today is that for 12 years I thought we had a loving, faithful, marriage.

He cheated in Dec 1999 and told me he would NEVER do it again. We went to MC, I gave him HUGE consequences if it ever happened again, I never outed him, I forgave him and then worked my ass off trying to forget about it. We even had an unexpected child in 2006. I thought he was my gift from God for forgiving him and working through it. It wasn't a perfect marriage but I always thought, what marriage is? I will admit that I was bitter because as hard as I worked he always expected more. He didn't really help at all around the house so I took up all the slack. I just thought I was supposed to. We had sex 1-2 times per week, (no record there I know but 5 kids and 2 companies), we fought about little things,we are great business partners.

Wow...to be so far off target in your own marriage!

Trynhard...I can totally accept that he loved her. We have debated this since 01/15 with each other and IC & MC. Even his IC said that he just used her. I think it would be easier if he did love her. I feel like he threw everything we had away for nothing? Not even a little love? I'll look at that question again when I have the desire to give him anytime in my head. (Of course I do because I'm here talking about it, I know) Just not today.
Thanks, thanks and thanks!


BS (me) 49
FWH 49 newbeg2011
Married 29 years
Very Long LTA
DD 01/15/11-6/30/11
The hard work is done...let the healing begin.

Posts: 997 | Registered: Apr 2011
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Sad  Posted: 12:33 PM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

have no head to read up...

got such sad sad news...a friend of my kids has died....she just graduated from college and her brother is about to graduate with my son....

i have so much to be thankful for....i truly am blessed....


hug your kids...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Read nothing since yesterday, too busy at the moment, but I thought of Honest today & wanted to throw it out there before I forget:

Honest: This is a bad week for me, with the expectation of the shit hitting the fan soon, in addition to my approaching anniversary. I've been pretty sad, etc. In any event, I was in court all morning, I was so busy, I didn't have time to think about stbx & even on the ride home, when I had to return his call, etc., I was still feeling good about myself & happy. I think this is because I had spent a couple of hours doing something productive, that was helping people, that allowed me to interact with a bunch of other people who seemingly enjoyed my company, etc.
And, so on my ride home, I thought of you because I really think it would do you a world of good to go back to school, so you have something independent of your boys, your wh, etc. Something to not only distract you, but to be a source of confidence for you.

So, get on that!


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle, I am so very sorry. One of my co-workers I was very fond of died this week as well. She was my father's age, but had two relatively young children given her age -- she was 62 and her sons are 19 and 16. She was married for 20 years (!) before she and her husband decided to have children. They'd had great jobs,etc. all those years and were financially stable and could have even retired -- they hadn't thought about kids AT ALL and her husband said "let's try" and she said "well, I've never thought of myself as the kids type, and I might already be too old, but why not?" And those two boys were the absolute light of her life, her reason for everything! I'd see her at the gym, years ago and say "B, there's no WAY you're 50!" and she'd say "Oh, but I am. I've got to take good care of myself - my little one is only 4, he's going to need me around for a long time..." 62 is so young to die. My heart just breaks for her husband of over 40 years and for her boys. I don't care if they're teenagers, they're still babies. I felt like XH and I were babies and way too young to lose XFIL when he died 13 years ago, and we were at least 23.

I am sorry for your loss and your friend's loss miracle. No one should ever outlive their child. It's just not right. Please keep a close eye on your friend.

Also, that author, Melanie Beattie who wrote codepenent no more, she lost a child to an accident when he was 11 and she has done some writing about grief. You might see on down the line if there is something helpful from her you can give to your friend.

0115 -- no, you cannot happily coexist not in R for a long time. nope. not an option. I truly believe you either need to fully R or D.

MC... I don't know... we did MC immediately but Mr. Nell was still lying and it was not at all helpful. Once we found an MC who specialized in infidelity, though, it got better. There are two trains of thought on this (immediately or only after WS has begun really sorting through his/her shit in IC) and I don't necessarily subscribe to either.

we have not done MC. I agree with Nell, there is no way to know when the time is right. I'd say do it no matter what, but the when you may have to just trust your instincts on.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
0115
♀ Member
Member # 31740
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So so sorry iwantamiracle. No words to say except the loss of a child has got to be unbearable. Prayers going up now.


BS (me) 49
FWH 49 newbeg2011
Married 29 years
Very Long LTA
DD 01/15/11-6/30/11
The hard work is done...let the healing begin.

Posts: 997 | Registered: Apr 2011
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, miracle. So so sorry for your friend's loss (and for your child's).


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn,
Nell, That looks like a list I would have made!

...what do you mean?... I didn't mention Retro!


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would also add to any list that you should spend some time thinking about whether or not addiction is a factor in your relationship. Many LTA'ers here have expressed addiction problems as a co-occurence, or mental illness. That too.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, yeah, we should totally write a book. Nell is our big writer though... I don't know, if anyone is not just joking about this PM me.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 3:26 PM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell.

You not only left out retro, you forgot to include a bunch of cool charts with lines and arrows going every which way. In my opinion you are way hotter than he is so that makes up for your list and chart omissions.

miracle.

Sorry to hear that sad news. Any death is sad but the younger ones are the hardest to cope with.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Adventures of An LTA Survivor

Chapter One: Exactly How Much Of Our Marriage Is A Lie?

Chapter Two: If I Kill Him/Her, I Will Go To Jail

Chapter Three: Meet Alcohol, My New BFF

Chapter Four: Alcohol Is Trying to Kill Me

Chapter Five: Crying Until I Vomit, Then Crying Because I Vomited

Chapter Six: I Love You I Hate You I Love You I Hate You Die Die Die Don't Leave Me

...just off the top of my head.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
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