Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: steve2020 (43223)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair - Part 26
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, July 5th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M33-
Wow! Your description of your FIL, nephew, and FWH's weekend says a lot about where your FWH may have gotten his toxic thinking to begin with!
What an inappropriate conversation for a father to have with his son and nephew.
Who does that? encourages anyone to go see a prostitute?
let alone a young man who is a father of a 4 yr old etc. etc.
Very toxic thinking going on there.
And to discuss this in front of your young son?
Totally inappropriate.

And then of course...there's the drinking...
you said that they (meaning the 3 men) spent most of the weekend drinking.

What is wrong with this picture?
Why would you want your children exposed to this?

What do you think your husband would say if you brought this incident up to him today..when he's sober?

Do you think that he would agree that it was inappropriate?

Do you think he would recognize that alcohol may be a problem for him and others in his family?

How do you feel about the events of the weekend in retrospect?

IMHO your FWH's attitude shows that he is not truly remorseful. He does not 'get it'.
Same with Strongish's FWH and many of the WS.
They think that ending the affair is enough.
They'll say... I'm not cheating on you anymore...so why are you still upset?

Well...the thing is...that by the time a WS has an affair and especially a LTA...they are in the middle of a downward spiral. Their life choices have been extremely selfish, negative, and toxic.

There is always more than just the affair that needs to be fixed.

Just like an alcoholic who stops drinking-the FWS-needs to stop and take an inventory of themselves.

That's why IC is crucial for them!

They have to really take a look at themselves and where their life was headed.

And then...they have to make a decision.
Do they want their life to be different?

or do they want things to stay the same?

If they want to save the marriage then...
IMHO...everything...about the marriage has to change.

They way you interract, communicate, behave...everything.

Recently on SI there have been a lot of posts about the negative impact of porn on the marriage -both pre and post d-day.

I agree that porn can be very damaging to a marriage but the thing that surprises me is how many FWS continue to view porn after d-day, after R.

To me it's a no brainer.

That is one of the things that has to go after infidelity.

No more porn.

(Definitely not any porn viewing on his own...maybe if it's a mutual decision on the part of the couple.)

Again...its my opinion-but all the rules have to change after d-day if the WS truly wants to reconcile.

If it means the WS has to go to IC and MC,or change jobs to get away from the OW/OM or stop traveling for work, or get sober-so be it.

Dr. Phil says something about the WS like- "you drove the truck into a ditch and now its your job to pull it out".



Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, July 5th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is a wonderful discussion. Laura, you have given such wonderful advice to Strongish.

Strongish, I agree with Laura, it does seem that your FWH is starting to wake up and see reality. I also think you are right, that he is new to expressing his feelings as to saying he was hurt that he was not invited to the bbq. Laura has given you a good suggestion that you can tell him how he could have better expressed it: letting you know how he feels, but also showing that he is aware of your feelings.
I think at this point, Strong, that you need to decide how much communication you want to have with WH. Do you need to be cut off, or communcate once a day/week/month? You are in the position to decide for YOU.

Allgood, I'm so sorry that your stbx is still acting like a child. It is just common courtesty to tell the person you are staying with that you are going out, especially if you are going to leave the back door open and expect it to stay unlocked!! Geez. He's acting like a rebellious teen not wanting to tell you, as though he is asking permission. It is just simple common courtesy.

Tryn, I really loved your analogy with the sand crabs. I copied and pasted this in my journal. I try not to look for them either, but they pop out at unexpected times.

As for me, I'm trying to deal with a new outlook on life. We get so used to acting and reacting to certain things in ways that were not productive and even harmful to us, but it's hard to learn better ways and to keep doing them. We often fall into the old groove, and the new ways sometimes feel uncomfortable because we are not used to them.

Allgood, it is a balance between our needs and our kids'. We are so used to putting others' needs in front of ours.

Balance is hard to find.

Acceptance of myself is even harder.

I know I am not perfect. I know there are a lot of things I need to change about myself, but since I accept others as humans with good and bad points, I need to accept myself as a human being.

Miracle: I hope your party went well and have survived!!!

Ats, check in, we haven't heard from you in a while.

Dip, I'm glad you had a good time. Thank you for all your support.

{{{{tribe}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, July 5th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest, you sound well. I've been trying hard to create new opportunities for me to be me outside of my family. I hope you are able to find the time to do the same.

I arranged for a girls' night out this weekend, with people I had never previously socialized with. I had a great time.
I also reached out to that colleague today to get some visitation/coparenting tips and found that she welcomed me into her circle of divorced friends so I will have more people to do things with.

It's a nice feeling to know that there's a lot of stuff out there beyond sitting at home & reacting to stbx.

On that note - when is Mr. Dishonest expected?


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, July 5th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest,
I'm so happy for you!!!

Aaaaand I've forgotten everything else. Oy.

Back from FIL and MIL's summer home. (It's the funkiest pre-made 1970s home I've ever seen... all original everything including mattresses and pillows and absolutely filled with crap... in the middle of a dustbowl = summer home. Hee hee hee.)

FIL is a complete horse's ass. I swear to heaven... WH said I don't know how many times that he thinks FIL has "something wrong" or "there's something just not right" with FIL. More than usual, I think he means. Meanwhile, MIL's alzheimer's disease is progressing and FIL refuses to "use the word." BUT will helpfully berate her in front of everyone for forgetting where she put something, or yelling at her until she's too flustered to remember how to work an appliance, and then berating her about that. Then he tells WH that MIL's self-confidence is low, and it's the doctors' fault for diagnosing her disease, and that he (FIL) has told her that she should have higher self-confidence. *thunk*thunk*thunk* = head on keyboard.

m3,
I can TOTALLY see FIL and WH having that conversation. Only joking, haha, if you say something about it you must be a prude... argh. Yes, inappropriate indeed.

dip,
How was the grilled pork?

miracle,
You're alive and posting, all must have gone well!

Allgood,
Sorry (again) that Mr. Nogood was acting the ass (again). Girls night = good for you!

I'm going out tonight with a girlfriend and her group of pals. Looking forward to it, though my allergies are driving me batty.

Why would they even open the office on a Tuesday after July 4th?! Ugh. Must run.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, July 5th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Seriously, Ats, where ARE you?


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
awakenedbytruth
♀ Member
Member # 29435
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, July 5th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DDay cometh.....

The good - wanted to rewrite the feeling of the date and went on a hot air balloon ride. WH decided to come with me. It was a cool experience and I'm glad I did it.

The bad - he is in full lock down avoidance mode and I am at a loss. I agree, my mind does wander to NC being broken. He insists, though, that his mood and actions have more to do with not being able to live in such a heavy situation and tired of feeling guilty. He does not get it and I am out of things to say to make him understand.

One year out and the outlook is bleak indeed.


“Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.” - Raymond Linquist
Me BS-39
Him WH-41
Married 18yrs 2 Kids 11-9
DDay#1-July 5, 2010 (LTA 2 Years with CoW in corporate office)
Separating - 8/11

Posts: 118 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: West but my heart belongs to the South
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, July 5th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was almost done with a post and my computer shut down to complete a windows update installation. No warning or anything. I could not stop it. There should be a law against crap like that.

Allgood.

It is good to hear you say that there is more than just sitting at home. Get out and enjoy as much as you can.

m3.

It took you 30 minutes to figure out why you were crying because those pesky defense mechanisims kept getting in your way. Those things are pretty good at what they do. I agree with njgal, (she is easy to agree with )that conversation was not appropriate. Just the subject matter alone is crazy. Then to have it in front of a child? Insane.

Nell.

The pork was pretty good. If I would have grilled it 4.5 minutes longer it would have been some of the best chops ever. I have that written down so next time they will be perfecto.
Berating a alzhiemers victim for forgetting things! That is just terrible. Did you want to bash his head in?

Strong.

Your H is jealous. He is on the outside looking in and is scared. These WSs and their double standards. They got to go have fun but you better not. Now he is left out and he wants to be a cry baby. Boo Hoo.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, July 5th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

awakened- is it mostly discussing details about the affair? is that what he is objecting to?
Is he still in IC? do you still go to MC?
are there still some things that you feel that you need to know about the LTA? or that he has not told you?
Or is it just those pesky triggers that jump out at you out of nowhere? and then you react?

One thing that I tried to do when we were in MC was to limit our 'LTA discussions' to the MC sessions.
I still thought about the LTA all day every day but since I knew that I would have a chance to discuss it all in MC helped me to control myself and not barrage him with questions.

I think my husband was also more willing to tell me things and discuss details etc. at the beginning because we were separated and he desperately wanted to move back home.
Aftre he moved back it was more difficult to get him to talk about the big 'I' because he assumed that we were reconciled and all was well. Hah!
Little did he know that it would be at least 4 more years of the emotional rollercoaster for me!

Another thing that helped was to make appts to talk. This way he would know in advance when and how long the discussion would be.

I understand on some level how awful it must be for the WS to feel like they are being criticized and reminded about their stupid, toxic behavior over and over again...
It must be hard but the BS needs to process this.
Whenever my husband would say this is going on for so long... I used to respond by saying that the LTA lasted even longer.

Like I said before..my husband's IC used to remind him that the Infidelity was traumatic for me and I was suffering from PTSD.
Would that help your husband to understand this better? If he read a book like Transcending Post Infidelity Stress Disorder by Dr. Ortman

[This message edited by njgal480 at 9:18 PM, July 5th (Tuesday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 7:21 PM, July 5th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi awakened

Has your H done any reading? I gave him the book "How to help your spouse heal from your affair" by Linda Macdonald. I waited until we were on a short holiday and had some quiet time to give it to him. It is a short easy read (the first book my FWH has ever read -he's not a reader). He read it from cover to cover in an afternoon. I gave him a highlighter and said mark the things that speak to you. He almost gave up doing that as there was so much. I sat with him on the verandah and read a thriller while he read. It was a nice experience for us.

NJgal

Some great suggestions as usual.

At Laura's Place

I am on holidays. Yay!!!!! Two weeks. I have lots of household chores and school work to catch up on but that's OK.

FWH is at work. He called (usually does 3 or 4 times a shift ) and said he hopes it's OK that he has signed up for another month of weekday shifts so he can be with me evenings and weekends. It's a big drop in money but as they say everything is cheaper than D.

I LOVE this even though the joy is still tinged with the sadness of knowing he requested evenings for many years to be with his OWs mornings. But I'm getting better at pushing these thoughts away.

I would like to make another gift for the tribe. Not another collage I promise but something I think you will all find fun. To do it I need to know your dreams for the future So I am asking all members to write a sentence or two, a paragraph or more if you wish about what you hope for in the future. It doesn't matter if it includes your (F)WS or not. It can be total fantasy or even (like my trip to France) your backup plan if the wheels fall off. Just what YOU want for your life.

HUGS to all the tribe especially those struggling, those who are lurking and those have not posted recently.

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
awakenedbytruth
♀ Member
Member # 29435
Default  Posted: 8:31 PM, July 5th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal - its not really discussing the affair at this point. We were in MC until last month when I pulled the plug. We kept going round about how his trying didn't match my needs. As soon as I pulled the plug on MC, he stopped IC. He was going because I wanted him to, not because he wanted to deal with his baggage. At this point, my trigger is his ease of showing affection to the kids and making plans to play golf. But, when he places me in the 'family' umbrella. This behavior reminds me of pre-dday so as my anxious level rises, his avoidance becomes stronger.

Laura - He tried to read one of the affair books and said it sounded forced. He really hates all the digging in and work part of it. He wants the relationship to be natural feeling. I'm assuming this is how it felt with OW.

In addition to figuring out the co-dependent thing, I have also realized some attachment style issues. He is an avoidance style and I am an anxious one. Neither of us had a secure attachment (my IC said that I have already won b/c I gave my kids that). I am starting to see how my bouncing around from mother to grandparents and back until I was eight really did a number on me. I think I may be holding on in part because he has been the stability and affirmation in my life for so long. Also, I can see now how when he talks about his younger years, he always blames his mother for his party ways but never takes it on himself. I mentioned how ironic it is that before all of this, he would do whatever it took to make me happy and to avoid conflict. Now he refuses to take those steps of reaching out to me but still wants to avoid conflict. I feel like if he REALLY loved and wanted to be with me, he would be showing it with more than staying around to see if it all works itself out.

So, what...I'm holding on for security and he's holding on to avoid the tough stuff that comes with D? What a pair.


“Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.” - Raymond Linquist
Me BS-39
Him WH-41
Married 18yrs 2 Kids 11-9
DDay#1-July 5, 2010 (LTA 2 Years with CoW in corporate office)
Separating - 8/11

Posts: 118 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: West but my heart belongs to the South
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:14 PM, July 5th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need to know your dreams for the future

A dream of mine would be to walk every morning on a beach on some Caribbean island with not a care in the world.

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 11:13 PM, July 5th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hello house 26....

my gosh you guys have gotten chatty...i gots lots of catchin up to do...

way too tired now though, my brain seems to be mush...will do so tomorrow though...hopin all is well with everyone...i will at least skim...but gots nothin as far as actual readin...

well the party was a success...we had over 90, not quite the 100ish, but damned close...lots of good food, the weather was great..no rain...was hot and sticky but all i care about was that there was no rain...

over half of the guests were teenagers...about 60 of them...they were great, very respectful, very happy kids...so basically...great people, great food, great weather and i am as pooped as pooped could be...but its a good poop...and my kids are all very very happy...and all kids and adults were already talkin and telling me they cant wait for next years party..


have not been on fb yet either, looking forward to seeing some of the pictures if my kids posted them and i will try to post a few if they did tomorrow...for a short time though...


oh and manchild has a new girlfriend...he has yet to date her or even see her face to face since they decided they were boyfriend and girlfriend and are actually claiming they "wuv" each other on fb....

i did tell you all that this is the child that worries me, confuses me and basically downright puts me in one those places!!!!


nite tribe....


((((hugs to all)))

[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 11:19 PM, July 5th (Tuesday)]


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, July 6th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle

Glad to hear your party was a success. Good job! Now, it's time for you to relax.

Awakened

He really hates all the digging in and work part of it. He wants the relationship to be natural feeling.

Oofa.
Same here.
Not a very encouraging sign, in my opinion, but that's just based upon my experience.

I totally get it tho - this is who my stbx IS. It explains A LOT. It explains how he was unhappy in the M & took the easy way out (conflict avoidance), even tho it could've been better if he was willing to work harder at helping me or meeting some of my needs or expressing his own. It explains the lackluster reconciliation effort. I truly believe some people are not cut out for this kind of emotional effort & it has taken me this long to realize that it's not a reflection of me/our relationship. It just is what it is.

Spoke to stbx last night about the realities of what divorced life was going to be for all of us, us, our kids, etc. given the young ages of our children. I initiated this conversation because I really believe that he has not thought this through in the sense that he seems to think the only change is going to be that he's going to move out, but otherwise be at "our" house "all the time", that we will continue to do family things together, etc. So, I wanted him to understand this. I don't want to be in the position of him setting things up with the kids that it's going to be this way & then I have to be the one to say "No". I wanted us to be on the same page.
Little light bulb moment: he is definitely irritated by the concept of me meeting someone else. I think it might be the driving force behind a lot of his defensiveness when it comes down to talking about how/when/where he will be seeing the kids.

Anyhoo, he said that he does want us to stay together & not just for the kids. I briefly (like 5 min) went over all the problems in our relationship pre-DDay, the lack of trust complicating things & that he is unwilling/unable to seek help or otherwise be open minded when approaching problems is making this seriously difficult. Told him ball was in his court, as it has been, but I'm sick of waiting around.

Ok, got to go.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, July 6th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So Allgood- when you said all of that what did Mr.Nogood say?
I don't quite get the reactions of Mr. Nogood, Strongish's FWH,even the little bit that I have heard about Awakened's FWH.
Putting it in plain language- do these men want to stay married or not? Are they willing to stop living a secret life? which means are they willing to be totally transparent about their whereabouts, their computer passwords, cell phones etc. Are they willing to go NC with the OW? and to stop behaving like a bachelor by going out with single friends, drinking all night, etc. And... are these husbands willing to go to IC and MC to figure what went wrong....
Maybe I'm not getting what else is going on ...or maybe I'm over simplifying but is it that these FWHs are not willing to do these baasic things to get the marriage back on track?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, July 6th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ok, started reading...this jumped out at me....more then once since i skimmed last nite..

strong:

I feel like he keeps putting me in the position to have to push him away. I don't want to hurt him and I know that every time I push him away he is "hurt." He has texted, e-mailed, called or had to stop by every day since he moved out. He's always apologetic, but it's like he can't help himself. I feel like a toy that he has suddenly decided that he wants even though he tossed it to the side before. He now wants me because he can't have me. I'm tired of it. Tired of all of it.


does it really bother you that he feels hurt??? most especially since its all consequences of his own doing.....if this is guilt...it needs to be squashed...if its genuine compassion then you are an amazing woman...


laura:

Maybe this is the difference. Maybe true R begins to happen when the FWS finally puts the BS's needs first even if it hurts him/her.

very well said and i agree completely...its called unconditional love..most of our ws already had that from us and have not a clue how to do it themselves....its truly loving another period...when you truly love another making sacrifices should come easy...or at the very least when you make the sacrifices you know you are doing it because you really do love that person...much like moms do for their kids on usually a daily basis...from the benign to the toxic...


purple:

"Nothing is more difficult, and therefore more precious, than to be able to decide"
Napoleon

aint that the gods honest truth...but once you do really decide, in your heart, in your mind and in your soul you wonder how you didnt see it all along....at least if you decide whats "right" for you and yours


strong:

Maybe he will "get it"

isnt this what we all strive for, wish for no matter what our status we all want to know that they "get it"....and its that need to know theyn "get it" that becomes the new torture sometimes...

and for some of us they never will...because in order to truly get it they need to "see" all of who they are, they need to "own" all of their shit and they need to be able to stand up and say it all.....as dr phil would say they need to "man up"...even the women....


By agreeing to move out he has tried to put your needs first. He is still trying. In his own hamfisted dumb way he is showing he wants you. I know it's still all about him but he does want you.


but until he makes it ALL about you showing you he "gets it" you will never feel like you belong together...how could you??? the questions and distrust will never leave you otherwise..leaving you wanting, leaving you feeling like peace will never be yours


laura:

He has admitted to some things he denied before. That's hard for me but I know why. He feels safer now to be honest. I KNOW he should have done it before and so does he but ... at least it's happening now.

as long as progress is an ongoing process there is not only always hope but there is that fighting chance...and as sick as this sounds him admitting shit is a gift....it may not seem like a gift when the words are spewing, but once you have been able to digest them a bit that is exactly what it is...and a small sense of relief too....its been a while for me since i have had that since pfm has become so entrenched in his "you have it all" mode...although he pretty much said that from the getgo...but in between the mountainess volumes of info that was seemingly never ending that came my way...he would give me tidbits that would help me piece it together....and it was through those pieces i was able to construct what happened at least with some of the ow's...i would still love to be able to put the rest of it together...that need that shows me he is owning it and he gets it....i still want that, i shouldnt anymore but i feel like i am missing a part of my life....and i want it back...i also NEED for it all to make sense...and right now some of the shit he fed me does not make sense because it is of course lies...oh well...this is my need to learn...let it go because in the grand scheme it no longer matters since i am not "r"...


laura to strong:

IMHO you two want to be together but YOU are exhausted from constantly trying to get him to wake up and HE is clutching at straws trying to get you to see he wants you by describing his own pain but putting his foot in it too often.

While you are having time out I think you need to keep the communication lines clear. If he stuffs up or has what we Aussies call "foot in mouth disease" then tell him. Quietly and if possible without the claws.

this was a wow for me...it was exactly me and pfm 2 years ago...

but there comes a point where it does not matter...he needs to put the actions in play before he is out of play...hoof and mouth will no longer save his ass so to speak...he needs to learn how to communicate i believe if you are ever going to feel safe within the marriage again...

and it sucks that the bs is the one doing most of the work trying to save the relationship...it should be the ws who does ALL of the work making it harder for the bs to walk away.....


which goes back to:

Maybe this is the difference. Maybe true R begins to happen when the FWS finally puts the BS's needs first even if it hurts him/her.


purple to laura:

Laura -YES I am crap at expressing my feelings. Ive learnt much from this A experience in being able to express them more openly (not enough to the tribe at times) - I just find now the person who needs to hear my feelings is deaf & living in their own world - isolating themselves from a loving husband & family.

i sometimes think that you brought her initial actions on by being who you used to be in the marriage and that after d-day you became who you should have been all along...

well i got to tell you...with few exceptions like domestic abuse for one...it doesnt matter....there are so many of us here who had crappy marriages, but we stuck with it, through good times and in bad times...bringing in a third person would never make those problems better or make them go away in fact it makes it all much much worse....

it does not matter what kind of husband you were short of abusive.....this is no way to live period...2 wrongs can never make a right and worse the wrong that she committed is a betrayal of a vow, a promise and of trust....if she was unhappy there were many other outlets she could have taken and i know because i was in such a relationship and never once did i ever dream of cheating on my husband and not too many people would really blame me for the shit i put up with, for the verbal and emotional abuse i put up with...not once did i ever even consider it...


and maybe you should share more with us...if not us at least in ic....i think you have lots and lots that needs to be purged...or even in a journal....get it out somewhere that so that you can expell if from your life...


allgood:

WS is "high risk" & for the BS to genuintely invest anything further in the M he had to show the BS that it's family first 24/7, meaning that he considers how we are impacted by everything he does BEFORE doing it.

i also agree completely


tryn:

I yearn for more

and like any kid they always want more ice cream and more candy...sometimes you have to take it all in and chill....of course you want more of a good thing who doesn't ...but sometimes it just isnt possible...and that has nothing to do with what she did in the past....but constantly communicating how much you do cherish what you do have, how much you truly enjoy her company (not just the sex..no woman wants to feel like she is just a "hole" or that that is what the ultimate thing is that you want...woman want to feel like we are appreciated for just being.....for us especially those of us with kids or with jobs that someone always wants something from us..its never just being with us for the sake of being with us, sometimes we feel like there is always some kind of pay off that is needed by those who want us) of course this could just be me....and for you men whose wives were the ws its a double edged sword...she was ready willing and able for him she should be for me...but that is not how a good healthy relationship works...and the 'a' is not a healthy relaionship...the payoff was different, it was an unhealthy payoff, she was meeting some kind of need within her that i am sure had nothing to do with sex, but the sex was what she had to pay to get what she needed...if i am making any sense..


And the “reminders”.

i believe that if you stopped yearning the reminders would lessen...they will never go away completely but become dull and less frequent...and then of course time is another very important factor on this one...


m3:

I don't even know what my feelings ARE half of the time!

oh hon, i think you know what your feelings are, i think you just cant come to terms that your feelings dont seem to matter enough to "him"...that your feelings are not "honored and respected"...i think you know what you feel i think you just cant come to terms with your feelings because they are a mass of conflict....nothing for you is cut and dry and you wish it were...but at some point you are going to have make a choice based on what you have NOW...because it may not change, in fact it probably wont change..but there are no absolutes in this crap and i think thats whats got you confused...in your sich there are no absolutes...so you need to base your decisions on whats happenin now and know its probably never gonna be more then what it is now...

for some of us that is just how it is.....and i think you are in the that group as is i...they are who they are and it aint gonna change no matter how much they lay they claim to that or how much we want it...


and your inlaws...are toxic people....toxic people should be eliminated or at the very least contact minimized...if not you have what you had for the 4th...and that is probably something you can take to the bank....toxic people will always have toxic sich's...not something you should be involved in let alone your kids...


jollum:


It's part of the whole difference in men's and women's brains and how they function. I really believe if we learned each others languages there would be a lot less strife in many marriages.

whilst i agree that the communication between the sexes can sometimes be difficult if not sometimes impossible...all one has to do is to live an honest life period....if you live an honest life even if the communication sucks...you wont do anything to hurt another because in living honestly (living within ones authentic honest self) you dont hurt others...if others are not meeting your needs you meet them in other honest ways or leave them...


njgal:

That's why IC is crucial for them!

ic that works and connects that is...not all ics are created equal...if an ic is not getting through then a new one is in order..


And then...they have to make a decision.
Do they want their life to be different?

or do they want things to stay the same?

If they want to save the marriage then...
IMHO...everything...about the marriage has to change.

They way you interract, communicate, behave...everything.

as dr phil says, you cant expect different unless you do different....

Dr. Phil says something about the WS like- "you drove the truck into a ditch and now its your job to pull it out".

YES YES and YES


honest to allgood:

Allgood, it is a balance between our needs and our kids'. We are so used to putting others' needs in front of ours.

Balance is hard to find.

i agree


honest:

I know I am not perfect. I know there are a lot of things I need to change about myself, but since I accept others as humans with good and bad points, I need to accept myself as a human being.

none of us are perfect...and for you i dont think its acceptance as a human being so much as a human being who deserves to be treated as such by EVERYONE!!!!


allgood:

It's a nice feeling to know that there's a lot of stuff out there beyond sitting at home & reacting to stbx.

i agree

and yay for you for making plans...have a great time..


allgood to honest:

On that note - when is Mr. Dishonest expected?

yes honest tell us, inquiring minds want to know...

nell: more toxic inlaws....i wish there was a way to ban these kind of people from our lives...

at least as wrong and as sick as this may sound..the alzeiheimers may at least put your mil in a place where she cant remember what an ass she is married too!!!


awakened:

One year out and the outlook is bleak indeed.

sorry...it sucks doesnt it..


dip:

There should be a law against crap like that
.


it my vast experience....i have noticed that the lawmakers at times have things ass backwards so to speak....so who knows there may actually be a law for it and you just dont know it...!!


i just think computers are really these little creatures who make your life so so much easier and when you feel very complacent in your life or when you feel like you cant take much more these little creatures need to play with your mind....yup i think they are into mind games...so they should be called mind game creatures...

you know i am still tired right if this sounds as bad as i think,,, and thats my story...and i am stickin to it...im tired...yup thats it..im tired..

laura:

I need to know your dreams for the future

mine is simple, i want to "see" all my kids happy and settled as adults and i want to be in a fun, loving healthy sexual relationhip with a man....


i is quite curious as to what you are up to but will gladly wait like a kid for xmas...and thank you for whatever it may be...


awakened:

As soon as I pulled the plug on MC, he stopped IC. He was going because I wanted him to, not because he wanted to deal with his baggage

this in my opinion tells you everything you need to know...he will only do what is necessary, nothing more and always less if he can...he is showing you who he is and who he will always be...

(((awakened)))


I am starting to see how my bouncing around from mother to grandparents and back until I was eight really did a number on me. I think I may be holding on in part because he has been the stability and affirmation in my life for so long.

this is so good to see in yourself, while it might be a painful connection for you, its an important one...now you can figure out how to meet this need of yours without him...


he always blames his mother

our foo has alot to do with who we become, but at some point in time we all need to grow up and take responsiblity for OUR own choices and own our own shit....blaming another for poor choices is just that...blaming another and its not standing up and leading an honest life..


I feel like if he REALLY loved and wanted to be with me, he would be showing it with more than staying around to see if it all works itself out.

i agree


allgood:

.

Told him ball was in his court, as it has been, but I'm sick of waiting around

yup that ball was always in his court and yet he keeps chuggin it back to you because you wont accept him as is....in his head, he is a man who made a mistake, he is sorry and lets go back to being the couple and i will go back to being who i am with a few changes...just a few but these few are for you, so see i have done what you asked....

yup he does stupid well...

and hon i know you wont give up til he is out the door, you wouldnt be able to live with yourself i think if you didnt...but i love that you are still holding ground so good for you...


njgal:

Putting it in plain language- do these men want to stay married or not? Are they willing to stop living a secret life?

yes and no....they want to stay married but do not want to do what it takes to do so...or are incapable of doing what it takes....and its really a shame...becaue if they really did what it took it would be a win win for them...but not too many people can "see" beyond their nose...


whew i did it, i catched up i think....

so i will hit submit before my pc pulls what dips did...

eta: holy shit this is long, really really long.. sorry tribe...

[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 1:56 PM, July 6th (Wednesday)]


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, July 6th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LOL... Iwant, that was the longest post on record in the LTA thread! About as long as your party list! And I do thank you for you post. I hear ya.

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, July 6th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle.

You said, "holy shit this is long, really, really long." There is a gutter joke or two somewhere in that line. I will just let you think about that.

As slow as I think and type it would take me two days to write a post like that. It was probably a good post. I need to review.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, July 6th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle -- thanks for the amazing post.

Same to njgal! You sound SPECTACULAR lately. really. Thanks.

Instead of venting, I will provide an illustration. About a month ago, M3 decided her WH is a grown-ass man and she will do his laundry only if every other item of laundry in the house is done first since she is washing clothes, sheets, towels, cleaning cloths, etc for 5 other people as well.

This is the result:

ETA (1) my 4 year old does better (2) the sink isn't much to look at either.

[This message edited by m334455 at 4:19 PM, July 6th (Wednesday)]


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, July 6th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats,
HELLO?! Are you okay?

miracle,
Holy crap. How long had you been saving up? The Alzheimer's... one positive thing is that MIL's tolerance for asshattery is lower, so she actually gets pissed off at FIL from time to time and lets him know she's pissed. Of course, it has zero effect on FIL, but it's nice to see her lash out every once in a while instead of just eating EVERYTHING he dishes out.

I had a fun night with my girlfriend and her pals... went to an outdoor theater to watch a 1980s movie (hint: "I feel the need... the need for speed.") and didn't get home until late. Went immediately to sleep and interacted very little with WH this morning... feeling peaceful.

Yesterday I realized (a "duh" moment) that I am uncomfortable when I feel like I'm in the spotlight... at work, suddenly my department is getting a lot of attention. In my M, suddenly WH is demanding that I call him several times throughout the day "to show him that I'm thinking of him." It's disconcerting to me to be forced into the middle of the stage because -a- my parents were the opposite of helicopter parents (they assumed I would do what I should; I did; they checked grades and went to parent-teacher conferences and concerts, etc. and that was about the extent of it), -b- I didn't have the type of BFFs who would always be at the others' homes going through their closets or whatever, and -c- I have always cultivated friendships and interests outside of boyfriend/husband relationships. I'm not a loner by any stretch of the imagination, but I do like lots of personal space. So right now I feel like people are looking over my shoulder constantly, and it makes me want to bite someone.

Deep thoughts by Nell. Who now has to continue to work her little fingers to the bone, so later y'all.

ETA:
m3, we cross-posted. Bwah-hah-hah-hah! It looks like he put on all his clothes and then stood next to the bathtub... and exploded. *kapow*

ETA#2:
dip, You said:
It was probably a good post.
High praise indeed.

[This message edited by ImNellNow at 4:27 PM, July 6th (Wednesday)]


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
jollum
♂ Member
Member # 25152
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, July 6th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle,

You amaze me, you truly do. I don't know how you can handle that many different trains of thought and make sense out of all of them but you did.

You are exactly right about the honesty. Oh how I wish.

Sorry if I offended anyone with what I wrote. My EMDR sessions have eased the pain enough to allow me to start thinking abstract thoughts again but I'm not quite clear headed enough to really make sense yet, I think.

Anyways, thanks for always taking such time and care to think and try to help everyone. You have a true gift of caring for others. That shows in the way you work for your kids and try and keep up with all the goings on here.


Posts: 269 | Registered: Aug 2009
Topic Posts: 1000
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

Return to Forum: I Can Relate This Topic is Full
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.