this thread under the forum is an ongoing conversation...and as such...we all take turns in whatever we need to to say whether it be to offer up advice, an opinion or even at times just hugs....
and when one of us is in need... we post as often as we need....and sometimes there are more then one of us going through some shit at the same time...
so you post whenever you need.....
none of us were....its not like we knew...had a crystal ball or were knowledgable in this crap....kwim...
if any of us knew then what we know now, none of us would have made the choices we made...but we cannot predict future behavior unless we have a history to base it upon...
you now have a new history...as we all....so then the question becomes is your ws doing everything they can to make new history that is good and is choosing the marriage and you or is your ws still choosing bad behavior...
and you will get through this shit....but you have lots of bumps in the road ahead...most of us do....and the bumps get easier and easier...
Can't chat much. Those gators again. Had a long day at work. Meltdown AGAIN last night and I'm exhausted. FWH is watching a movie- affair related. "A perfect Murder". UGHHHHH.
Mind you gives one naughty ideas.
0115....you are not hijacking this thread in any way shape or form...
Honey we have all felt what you do at some time or other. Tell us all. Anything. LTAs are so complex and so soul destroying. Share, vent anything you need. What makes this place so powerful is that we all support each other so well. There is NOTHING you could describe that would not resonate with someone.
From memory I think Nofun and her H were "onlies". or close to it.
FUN WHERE ARE YOU. I AM REALLY GETTING WORRIED. PLEASE CHECK IN.
Love to all the tribe - courage and peace in your struggles.
Fun is OK.
Actually decided I quite like this movie so far.
BS discovers WW is having an A and that OM is a POS.
BS pays OM to kill WW.
OM tries to kill WW.
OM stuffs up and WW kills him.
Haven't seen the end but I sincerely hope BS doesn't get busted.
Maybe I should go to bed now.
Tryin's advice about trying to think of it as if he had previously dated etc. is definitely the way I have been able to deal with it.
Once I (very quickly) realized the LTA had preceded my marriage by MANY years ... well, yes this is how I dealt with it. Many BS's blame themselves -- my extreme situation shows how silly that is. How on earth could I be to blame for an affair relationship that started when I was in MIDDLE SCHOOL?! I'm not.
As for the love factor -- why don't we split the difference and agree it's love, but very toxic and unhealthy love.
very toxic and unhealthy love
0115, Let us be her for you. We don’t always agree but we can give you things to consider and think about based on our experiences. We have the greatest variety of situations anyone can have in a group.
he wouldn't wait so I said "marry me". STUPID STUPID STUPID!!
When people cheat, they are very sneaky. The fear they have is so strong that they will go to the greatest extremes to never allow you to discover this evil.
OK, you lived a life in peace and innocence. Not really a darn thing wrong with living life like that. Does that make you stupid? I don’t think so.
I bet about 20% of marriage go through life in total innocence and peace. I say 20% because of the rule 80/20 rule that applies to everything. This stuff is supposed to happen to other people, not me. Not that falling in the 80% makes me feel any better.
[This message edited by trynhard at 11:33 AM, July 18th (Monday)]
Allgood- about the love issue... I 'get it' that some AP's insist that they were in 'luv' or infatuated...or truly 'in love' but many many others can have long time sexual experiences with the same person and never feel an ounce of love... or respect for that AP. Often young men or women can do this but older men like my husband that was stuck in an adolescent view of what 'dirty sex' is...can also behave in a very disrespectful way toward the AP for many encounters.
Did you ever hear about TuckerMax.com?
he's a real male chauvinist who has a large following as he describes his meaningless sexual exploits..often with the same women over long periods of time... he 'loves' these women so much that he makes fun of them and describes in detail his degrading sexual exploits with them....
there was also a famous scandal a year or so ago of a young woman... I believe that she was a student at Duke University and she blogged about all of her sexual exploits with tons and tons of men over a period of 4 yrs... she gave their names, pictures, and rated each one in terms of their sexual performance...she did have 'repeat ' encounters with the same men also.......
what do you call that?
did she have to feel 'in love' in order to do this?
does that other guy Tucker Max feel true love while in throes of passion? but then forgets about it and is able to degrade these women on the internet?
It's hard for us sensitive, moral, and ethical souls to relate to this because we did feel love or at least strong like before we engaged in a sexual liason.
I have a friend whose husband had a long term affair with his secretary..this happened in the pre cell phone days and pre email days... but apparently he would lock his office door and they would engage in sexual exploits on a regular basis on his desk, under his desk, in a pretzel position in an office chair...sometimes..if this secretary was lucky he would drive to a landfill site....yes...you read correctly... and park in this remote site and they would have pretzel type sex in his two seater sports car at lunch.
In all the years that he engaged in this crap he never once felt sorry enough about his lady love to want to spring for a motel room with a proper bed. He never once bought this sex partner a gift or a flower. He never once tried to arrange a get away for night to spend with this lady.
My friend insists that what her husband felt for this affair partner was love! He had to you see because the affair went on for so long!
I have this same discussion with her all the time...
My question to her is this... if your daughter came home and said...I'm in love with my boss and he's in love with me...and proceeded to tell you that all that they shared together was this lunchtime bizarro sex nothing more...
would you as a parent agree? and say...hmm..of course... the way you describe this relationship I can see in so many ways how loving it is! This man is truly showing you so much love and caring and respect! He really worries about your needs. He wants you to be happy....
not! there is no parent in the world that would encourage their child to continue in a relationship like this...why? because no matter how long the routine has been going on there is nothing loving about it. Their daughter is being used, exploited, and degraded and she is delusional that this is anything remotely like love.
I’ve been with my parents. No internet. No mobile phone signal within 5miles of their house. My Dad was in hospital strapped up to a heart monitor for several days while they sorted out his meds for a previously undiagnosed heart flutter which made him pass out every couple of weeks. I won’t go on about it here, but my parents’ marriage is one of those solid gold ones. And I’ll never have that.
I’ve lurked and now I’ve caught up (thanks for the b’day wishes, btw. It was okay), it’s time to get dinner. If I start posting, dinner will never get done – LOL! I could start on happiness, getting the truth, dreams, whether or not the WS and AP were in “love”, but I won’t.
Okay. Now I’m off!
Hugs to y’all.
and both sorry to hear about your dad and glad it was not serious...
and yes its sad that you dont have the kind of marriage that they do....sad for all of us..
but that does not mean that we cannot find happiness within our lives...and it does mean that when we find it we will hopefully appreciate it knowing just how precious it is...
To all those debating LOVE:
My opinion is that it can be anything from "just sex", attention, habit, to something like love. I do not believe one could really be "in love" with someone the way you carry on an A, because if you felt that deeply, that passionately about the person, than you would be with that person ALL THE TIME not just here & there.
For me personally, my stbx has said they were "just friends" it was "just sex", which he later upgraded to they were dating. He's adamant that he did not love her, tho he cannot explain why he didn't love her. Has never said a bad word about her. He does not disrespect her. Actually has said a lot of real positive things about her, eerily similar to the adjectives he would use to describe me, tho clearly OW & I are nothing alike.
I think I understand the level of caring involved based upon what I know of the frequency & nature of their contact. I can tell from things that he did that showed he cared for her, showed concern for her, both during and after DDay. Obviously continued contact after DDay flys in the face of "just sex", etc.
I really don't care to dwell on it any further. He had feelings for her, she had definite feelings for him, neither of whom it seems was bothered by the inherent lack of respect and fidelity within their own relationship.
I agree with M3 that it can't be "true love", but for me personlly, it was too damn close to it.
I like the "that was then, this is now" solution. I think that's a good approach when the facts support it.
Honest - thinking of you.
Only got a few minutes.
Thanks I am feeling better. I need to be at work. Then I'm too busy to obsess!
OM (wearing balaclava) comes to kill WW. They struggle. She manages to stab him.
At this point I went to bed.
FWH later tells me that:
BH arrives home expecting WW to be dead. She's alive. OM on floor dead. Police arrive remove balaclava and it's not him. He paid someone else to do the job!
Don't know the rest but it seems OM tries again, WW kills him. WW knows what BH has done and then kills him. She gets off scot free.
Welcome home. Glad your dad is OK. Belated Happy Birthday.
I need your dream honey. The project is not complete without you and Fun.
Love: I think it is just part of the fantasy. FWH threw them all under a bus. So I like to think he didn't LOVE them. That will have to do for me.I don't want to give them any more time.
because if you felt that deeply, that passionately about the person, than you would be with that person ALL THE TIME not just here & there.
Yep. FWH told me he didn't always go to visit them when he could sneak away because he didn't "feel" like it. I asked him if there were times he told them he was coming but didn't show because I changed my plans and he said yes but he couldn't remember the details - when or why. He said he didn't really care much.I suspect this was true and clearly he wasn't too upset about it otherwise he would have remembered.
Gotta go tribe. You all have a nice day/evening/night
Love to all
Just popping in to say a tentative hello to you all. I gather that you all know each other from posting here, I hope you don't mind... I'm new, and just trying to figure out where I belong here.
I guess I fall under the category of LTA - EA about 2 years, PA somewhere between 1-2 years. I'm only 26 and we've only been married 4 years so it's a bit depressing!
WH told me... I had suspected it for a long time. It's early days yet (not even a month since dday), but seems like we are trying for R anyway.
Just wanted to say hi. So sorry you are all here, but glad to have found you.
UK - Happy Bday
Maybe sell up and put stuff into storage and just travel. Take a canal boat and live on that for a year. With a small dog. And my music – but the piano would have to wait!
Love: I don’t think about it much anymore. He had it, now he doesn’t. Not in the same way. I care, but not as deeply. I feel affection, but not as strongly. I feel semi-detached. She was a shadow through all of our marriage, not just the affair years. So yes, he did love her and, like Mr Nogood, Mr UKg has
never said a bad word about her. He does not disrespect her. Actually has said a lot of real positive things about her, eerily similar to the adjectives he would use to describe me, tho clearly OW & I are nothing alike.
However, while he didn’t leave me, I think it was conveniently arranged that they would stay with their spouses until her kids had finished FT education and then they could stroll off into the sunset. If the boys were living with me, I’d get all the educational financial support from the state coffers. Her kids went through the private system. I really think they’d had it all worked out. Until d-day arrived, and WH suddenly didn’t want the fantasy to be reality. It was real until that point. Now, of course, fWH views it with thick “rewritten the rewritten history” spectacles.
I think I’ve seen that film, Laura. I had a strange fascination for adultery themed films after d-day. Part of the trying to understand, I guess.
fWH is abroad for the week, back working for the company he was with during the last two years of the affair. He has his Blackberry and expense account, waiting on his company car and credit card…………. Gritting my teeth. These feelings will pass.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 6:29 PM, July 18th (Monday)]
Great Posts for Newbies to Read:
Ps thanks DP!
Back story on her is that she has always dated (men & women) she has been married twice and she has been engaged once or twice.
I believe that 1999-2006 she believed there was a chance he would fall in love with her and they would go off to unicorn and butterfly skankville together. In 2006 I had a surprise pregnancy and that's when they started F******. I think she did everything she could but finally realized he wasn't leaving. So I think he was an ego boost for her. I think she thought "I'm f****** a CEO of a company that is married and has 5 kids...he would risk his marriage and reputation just to get a little of my p****." He thinks she would jump at the chance to marry him anytime and I'm thinking...YOU ARE A CONCEITED SON OF A BITCH!! He said he always knew EVERYTHING about all her other relationships but they never knew anything about him. Really? Even the engaged ones?
I know it sounds like I'm obsessing but let me explain.
She is in a relationship now but if history is a gauge, it will be over soon. When her relationship ends she will seek out my H. When he rejects her, I'm concerned what will happen. In 12 years he has NEVER rejected her. When she was confronted by 2 other married woman who's H's she slept with she fought them and earned herself a restraining order. So I guess I'm wondering what kind of messed up relationship it was. He thinks she "luved" him but I wonder. I think she used him as an ego boost and free dick.
So...am I obsessing, or just scared of what I feel is the inevitable confrontation? What is your take?
This has been an ungodly week-end.
I'm just going to fly in here with random questions and let you professionals (I say that humbly and appreciatively) evaluate the state of my mental incapacity. I'm turning into a freak and I accept that fact. I will return to normal someday and behave accordingly.
Thanks SO much...sometimes I feel that you're the only ones on my team. and my PM buddy from England