Strong… 110% in M huh? For me, I would never accept a comment like that from my W. It is delusional. Ever M, every relationship has issues. Issues like, “I” am not getting what “I” would like to have. If you give 110% in your M, you don’t cheat. He gave 40%.. maybe. And that is an “F”. He get a -60% for not having the strength to tell you that he needs another woman to fulfill whatever the hell he needed to fill. Just wondering, what if before he cheated, he came in all seriousness and said, what he needed he was going to search for it and act on it? Your H needs an intervention himself. He cannot even get by Step 1: admitting that one cannot control one's addiction or compulsion. My W took full responsibility.
how can he ever earn it?
How would anyone ever begin to earn forgiveness for a 12 year affair?
I think telling yourself “this is NOT going to take me YEARS” is positive. This is a good thing. Keep telling yourself that.
[This message edited by trynhard at 7:55 AM, July 23rd (Saturday)]
Ground & pound is good, especially if you wear those low heals.
I am not suffering from withdrawals cause I am still grilling. Only those people with complete brain power are not grilling. I only have half a brain and it is getting baked by the heatwave. At least I have good food to eat..
Hugs to the tribe.
njgal480 - No my FWH did not ever pay the 1st escort for sex. When he met her he was president of a company and said she interviewed with him for a job. The relationship started then. He was not able to hire her but did get her a job with another company later (didn't last long because it was easier for her to make $ as a whore) and became her KISA, mentor, friends with benefits etc. He found out several years later that she was an "escort." The relationship started in 1998 (he was 50 & she 20!) and, with research, I found out she had been an "escort" on web sites since early 2001. I found out 2 years ago (we had moved from the town she still lives in 8 years before but the relationship continued). At that time his drinking had really escalated and he had been seeing escort #2 in a nearby town for 1 and 1/2 years - he found her on the same web site that #1 was on. He paid #2 and I found out about her 2 months after I found out about #1. We have talked extensively about SA. His IC said that he was not SA but "pushed the envelope." He also had a long history with porn that escalated over the years. My counselors in rehab are concerned that he is SA. We plan on discussing this in more detail and also pursue marriage counseling again and go on weekend marriage retreats. Any suggestions?
tryn hard - thanks for your encouragement and support. At this point I am going for acceptance. I cannot wave a magic wand and forgive. One day at a time. If I can forgive great, if not that's OK also. FWH is working every day to earn my respect and forgiveness. Maybe, like you say, he can only earn R.
As for me....I'm still in the process of getting ducks in order. Contacted a business broker to sell the business, cleaned STUFF out of the house. I'm not sure if I can even live for convenience with this man. I don't think he is the man I want to spend the rest of my life with. I almost left this weekend and then chickened out! Geesh...I can't seem to get my act together. So really nothing new, just the same ole, same ole but still plugging to get lots of things in order. At least making baby steps as Honest says.
Hugs to all.....
sadallthetime: Welcome to our little corner of SI. I admire your courage to fight your addiction to alcohol. My father was a "sober" alcoholic" for over 35 years with the help of AA. Hopefully, with you and WH becoming sober and going to IC and AA, things will get better. With infidelity, it's not only one day at a time, but sometimes one minute at a time.
We've discussed forgiveness many times on this board, but we all agree that it does take time and effort. It took me over 4 years to forgive xWH #1 and to come to terms with everything. With current stbx WH, it will take a lot longer. There is too much to process for me.
For me, it's like a giant jigsaw puzzle that has pieces that don't exactly fit and I've been sorting and sifting through MY old memories and having to toss them to fit in the reality. Everytime I think I got the pieces to fit and can come to terms with it, new pieces come in that change the whole picture.....and even the whole picture has changed.
How do you define narcissum? As I said in my last post, WH is hardly talking to me since he got off the plane (even when he was overseas with DS, he wouldn't talk to me) We brought the kids out to eat last night with one of their friends. WH is sitting across the table from me, so to cut the thick silence, I just tried to start conversation such as how the weather was there, or how the business was going. Just really yes and no answers, so I dropped it.
So last night after the kids are in bed, WH asks if I want to make love??????????
I have been not engaging in any bait to start arguments which he has been laying out, I just said, you are very angry at me and you want to make love? He says "we'll talk about that tomorrow" I just walked away.
I keep thinking what planet is he from??
I really want him to go. Right now, all I want is for this anger of his to disappate, talk like grownups about what we're going to do and be civil. I know we can do that, even he is capable of that.
It still hurts, damnit.
Sorry for the vent.
I may sound strong, Miracle, but I'm not.
On the brighter side, DS 16 seems "normal", lol as normal as a 16 yr. old can be
As for the shells, I should have mentioned that the shells are not easy to find, and some are as small as a 1/4 inch to 1/2 inches, so I know that DS 16 had to really search and look for these..... I will cherish them!!
You are all in my thoughts and prayers.
Allgood, stay strong and vent here please.
Laura, like jollum, I LOVE the "dream cloud". It is really uplifting! Thank you for all your time and effort to give us that wonderful gift.
and yes it still sucks..
fun...so sorry to hear that you are not doin so good...
i was thinkin a little while ago, how many of us were in such emotionally abusive marriages...and yet we would take it all back if the infidelity would be erased...how we miss that state of mind that we had...at least i did...i thought i was loved, truly loved....it makes all those years of emotional abuse that much more surreal....
allthetime....he sounds very sa...you might want to check out that thread in the i can relate forum....
dip....pfm did some grillin tonite...sorry he is not a good example of someone who has a mind, a good one anyways...
but the food was good..
Honest - OMG! I just can't believe this guy! Is he for real???? Seriously, he is messed up to think that he can treat you like he does and that you'll just jump right into bed with him! He is an idiot...plain and simple. You are sounding stronger with every post, yet I know that having Mr. Dishonest around is draining for you. You are an amazing woman to have put up with this crap for so long. Just a little bit longer.....keep telling yourself that.
Strong… 110% in M huh? For me, I would never accept a comment like that from my W. It is delusional. Ever M, every relationship has issues. Issues like, “I” am not getting what “I” would like to have. If you give 110% in your M, you don’t cheat. He gave 40%.. maybe. And that is an “F”. He get a -60% for not having the strength to tell you that he needs another woman to fulfill whatever the hell he needed to fill. Just wondering, what if before he cheated, he came in all seriousness and said, what he needed he was going to search for it and act on it? Your H needs an intervention himself.
An update.....so after/before the Friday night conversation, FWH had sent me a long e-mail. He asked that I read it as it seemed to him that we can't "talk" to each other...duh. So, I read it and let it marinate over night. Yesterday I asked FWH to come over to talk after DS17 left for work. (DD is off seeing her BF.) I had the e-mail printed off and was going to tear him apart line by line...instead he came in and was completely remorseful. He said that I had not been the #1 priority in his life in a long, long time...if ever. He had not made me feel "cherished" and that I deserved that. Then we got to the heart of the matter....as least the "current" heart of the matter. I told FWH that he doesn't deserve me. He doesn't deserve the many, many chances that I have given him to help me heal from HIS infidelity. Yet, I did give him chances and when he was too effed up to help me heal, I started to heal on my own. FWH listened and then broke down and agreed that I was right. I told him specifically that I felt like a loser for not kicking him to the curb the day/hour/minute I found out about his A. And instead of his being grateful that I didn't, he was once again asking ME to have an open heart and listen to his "explanation" of where his head was at at the time of the A. Once again, he actually seems to listen to what I was saying. He admitted that he had been his own worst enemy and the things he said on Friday night were hurtful to me.
For the first time he actually called himself an "idiot." It may not be much, but it was huge to me to see that he was able to look at himself and what he has done and take ownership of that....at least for now.
After much crying on both our parts, I told him that I have this desparate need to be given affirmation that I/me/Strongish has shown compassion and strength in how I have acted since DDay. I need to hear that.....I crave it. My oldest told me that he was so proud of how I was handling this mess, and it meant the world to me. It was and is, exactly what I NEED to hear. FWH agreed and vowed to make an effort every day to affirm to me that he is proud of me and GRATEFUL that I am still here.
At the end I agreed to allow myself to "accept" his efforts to make me feel valued and appreciated. We'll see how that goes. Honestly, it was the best conversation we have had in a long, long time. I was ready to tell him that we should just start D proceedings, and instead I put myself out there again. So, I guess the saying is true...."Hope springs eternal."
I also told FWH that I wanted to move out of this house. I hate this place....it drags me down every day. It drains me to have the responsibility of making the repairs and keeping up the newly complication household budget. I want to run away from this mess and the pain and although I know I can't do that, I can get a place of my own for at least a little while. FWH suggested that I give myself to the end of August to decide if I really want to do that. The only thing keeping me here instead of getting my own place is DS17. This is pretty much the only house he has known and he is entering his last year of HS. It is important that he not feel that I am abandoning him and coercing him into moving into a place with me. It's a lot to think about and many people have told me to NOT move out. But they don't get how much I hate living here. I want out so bad I can taste it. I will not make any definite decisions for a while, but it is so tempting.
Sad - Both my FWH and I attended a one-week workshop at Onsite in TN. We went different weeks but the time was very, very valuable. It really opened my eyes to what I was feeling...just my feelings, not the ones that I am "supposed" to feel. It was so empowering. That week was one of the best things I have ever done for myself. I would encourage you to think about going to Onsite....either on your own or with your WH. They deal with a lot of people in recovery, from every type of abuse. The staff is very good at what they do and I highly recommend their programs.
I'm going to try and go back to sleep...yeah, right, like that's going to work.... Happy Sunday ya'll.
Honest.. It is amazing what your H says to you.
Peace out today.
This is the shit I put up with on a daily basis!!!
Nofun: I'm so sorry that you are going through a hard time. You are selling your business? Is this something you wanted to do or was it the economy? Do you feel more trapped because of this?My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Miracle: pfm was grilling in this heat? I couldn't go out to water the garden I was sweating so much after a couple of minutes!!
Tryn: I can't believe what WH says either.
It gets better. WH tells me that he was very angry with me because I was confiding with DS 16 about the sitch. Asshole was the one who told the kids!!! Because I was acting so sad, I am messing up the kids and that's why they can't accept the situation. They should see it as normal....( for their religion, but the sitch is NOT normal even for their religion. Lying, being deceitful, etc etc)
I said, so I was supposed to act happy about all of this?
And he knew he was caught in his own words.
I don't know why I am even talking to him.
DS 35 showed up the day after they arrived to see DS 16, and DS 35 said he did it on purpose to give WH a message that he is around.
So my sons are there for me.
I guess I am getting stronger. I am detaching. I am seeing more and more who this asshole is. He showed me this mask all these years.
Another thing that really, really killed my feelings for him, is ironically not what he did to me, but what he did to OW. I had posted in April that I saw he found out OW was going out and possibly went somewhere with the OC's tutor. Well, WH told me that he beat OW because she went out without telling him.
I don't know this man.
It doesn't scare me, though, He is a coward. He knows damn well that if he raised a finger to me, I would call the police in a flash and have him arrested. He also knows that even DS16 wouldn't allow it, never mind my older sons.
Who is the person????
OMFG he is a total piece of work...he makes pfm look like a fucking saint....and that aint easy....he beat her....and she allowed it!!!......holy crap.....
thank god you are getting out, thank god....i am speechless here, the only words that i keep coming up with are all expletives....not pretty indeed...
fun...i think your ws is another who has always done stupid well.....and i am sorry that you have so much on the negative side....before you had guests move in i had thought the 2 of you were coming to some kind of compromise, giving you time to decide what you wanted...maybe compromise is not the right word...but i thought you found some kind terms...no that word isnt it either...i am still fucking speechless after reading about honest's ws....and thankgod as she has now referred to him as her stxwh
anyways fun...i am praying for ya...and after you sell the business i hope you take some sort of vacation, a spa like one...start planning it now and it will hopefully give you something to look forward to....or even a workshop followed by a spa...
strong: why do you hate that house???? i think the hate you feel comes across so so strong...i think it might be a good idea to name why....i know that there has to be good in that house too...so whats the bad thats driving you away from it....
i also think that this might help you in your healing to identify why this is such an extreme feeling towards a house...
p.s. honest yes he did grill in the excessive heat that day....it really wasnt that bad in the yard, or at least my yard...and it was what we had planned...i had marinated chicken 3 days prior....who knew it was going to be that hot...
Honest- You sound strong and able to see your STBXH for who he is.
[This message edited by njgal480 at 7:20 PM, July 24th (Sunday)]
I am looking into selling the business because I feel very tied down. If I sold it, I could leave the area if I wanted to and go back to where I grew up. Or I could go to NY to be near my daughter and grandbaby.
Strongish - The first year out, I too hated my house. I called it the "Unhappy Marriage House." I guess I felt like my H relocated me away from my family for his job and then he goes and has a 12 year A. I don't feel as strongly about hating the house now though. He also had the A with a woman who lived where we both orginally came from. So in my mind, he moved me away 75 miles so he could have his convenient affair. In fact, she lives 2 miles from my parents. So not sure I would want to go back there either. Of course unless she dies. Grrrr....
Peeking in quick. Had unexpected visitors arrive and had to put the dream cloud on hold. Will finish in the next few days.
Mr. Nofun gets the stipid award for the day.
I won't argue. But that's why they ended up stuffing up their (and our) lives.Because they were so STUPID!
Fun I need your dream. The cloud feels so incomplete without it. Putting aside all this shit what do you dream of for your life? With or without fwh? Try to imagine what you would love for your future.
I got yours. Great to have you with us.
FWH is working every day to earn my respect and forgiveness. Maybe, like you say, he can only earn R.
LTAs are so tough honey. I often think I will forget about working towards forgiveness. Sometimes I think we put too much weight on it. Focus on it too much and so things feel a little "forced". At present I am working on R. I believe that as R progresses forgiveness should eventually be a natural part of the process. I don't think it is something that you can push too hard. For me forgiveness is the pinnacle, the high or end point of R.
FWH is working even harder the last week or so which is nice. At least once a day now he says "Have I told you today how much I love you? I want you to know I am so sorry for what I did. I will never do that to you again and I will love you forever." He says it every day (at least once) almost like a mantra. It is almost word for word. Now THAT is something which can lead to forgiveness. IT's nice.
With current stbx WH, it will take a lot longer. There is too much to process for me.
Honey forgiveness is not possible without remorse. To be frank I can't see him ever having true remorse.
I just said, you are very angry at me and you want to make love? He says "we'll talk about that tomorrow" I just walked away.
Hi sense of entitlement is astounding and your dignified response is BEAUTIFUL. I love it!
So happy for you. he really does sound as though he is starting to "get it".
For the first time he actually called himself an "idiot."
My FWH often says this or says he was so stupid. I know how much it means because for me it says that he knows he had something so important and he blew it. Hugs honey.
Running out of time. So quickly
I sometimes also think of selling up. I used to love our place but the shine has gone. I actually don't much care anymore if we stay here but don't want the drama of a move just now while I'km trying to get my head in order. OTOH I can see the day when I will want to get out.
Gotta go friends - big day at work coming up.
Love to all
[This message edited by Laura28 at 4:12 PM, July 24th (Sunday)]
Fun - I'm sorry to see that things appear to have taken a turn for the worse - last time you were here it seemed that he was finally starting to get it. I can't offer more because I don't know what exactly happened - I'm assuming it's just a lack of progress more than anything else. I wish you peace & luck in whatever you decide.
Honest - Good for you - you are doing great. Now, seriously present this dude with your settlement proposal. He's never going to be the one to initiate a conversation that involves his exclusion from "his house" and paying you a bunch of money so JUST DO IT. And, now. It will be harder to get his attention when he is overseas. You have the ability to be a big pain in his ass right now & he's got no place to go - so go for it!
As for me: told the kids yesterday that stbx is moving out next weekend. Boys being boys, they are not exactly sharing their emotions. They seem to be ok tho. Stbx's work schedule is such that he is not going to have weekends off again until October, so until then, I'm going to let him visit with the kids here. Ease them into the transition to visiting at his place, which should be ready & kid-friendly by October. Really no big deal to me as I won't be here when he's visiting them anyway - I'll either be at work at the gym, so that works for everyone.
Also told my mom. My mom & I really don't get along & are not very close at all. It was not as bad as I thought it would be. (She tends to say some pretty stupid/unintentinally offensive things when caught off guard - stuff she said to me when I told her I was pregnant with my 3rd child caused me to tell her about my pregnancy with my 4th via email, lol.)
She did make one ridiculous statement right out the gate tho - told her we were splitting up & she said that (I get that) from my father's side of the family.
Oooook.... she was serious too.
Then I got a bunch of her views on marriage, but she backed off damn fast as I told her I wasn't getting into why we are splitting, she just needs to trust that it's not something that I would do if it could be avoided.
Then we all went to my son's game today, me, stbx & my parents. Sorta surreal. YOu would never know.
So, everything is as good as can be expected here.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 6:34 PM, July 24th (Sunday)]
I'm feeling down today...so what's new, right? Sigh....and so another week begins.
(I get that) from my father's side of the family.
Sorry honey, but I had to laugh. I can see why you don't get on!!!
But the bitch in me couldn't help myself. I'd have to tell especially after a comment like that!!
Strong and Allgood
I know what you mean about ILs. Yesterday my nephew (H's B's son) and his fiancée came to visit and were talking about the wedding. I really like this boy (he's the one who had the kidney transplant) and am so happy that at 36 he has finally found a girlfriend (she's his first!). She's a real sweetie. Anyway they were talking about the wedding (love songs to play etc) and I was triggering madly. I kept it together but only just. It really is strange that the rest of the world just goes on like nothing has changed (but logical since they don't know!)
You have made my day. I couldn't finish without your dream. HUGS honey - stay strong and good luck with the meeting.
Love to all my dear tribe
The biginnings of remorse... good. It is okay with me if you decide that it comes too late. That is a valid response, IMO.
There are no words. Well, there are. But they're all swearwords. I'm glad you are seeing the extent of Mr. Dishonest's dumbfuckery. That man is seriously twisted. How many suns are there on his planet? I mean, besides him?
Not only is it quite hot here (not humid anymore, thank goodness!), but our air conditioning decided to conk out yesterday. We do have a whole house fan, so used that.
WH is up... gotta run! Damn it... not done yet! BBL