Most NPDs have multiple disorders and PA is very common. Just because they are PA does not mean they can not or will not rage. PA is usually evident when they do things half heartedly or say they will do something and not do it. Rather than fuck with you directly....they do it indirectly.
Mine is PA also. I would ask her to read a book.....she would skim through it. Asked her to read another book.....read half of it. Asked her to read another book.....never cracked the cover. Each time she promised to read it and have an open mind to what the experts were saying......sabotaged every attempt at R. We were separated but supposedly trying to R. She was suppose to call every evening before bed so we could exchange "I love You's and Good Nights".....lasted 3 days.
Rather than tell you they do not want to do something, they agree to do it but then do it half hearted or screw it up on purpose.....thus fucking with you but yet not confronting you. They know it will piss you off and then they can say....."well I tried but nothing is good enough for you"...or something along those lines. They use the PA to turn on you and make you think you are fucked up and they are perfect....which is where the NPD comes in. You are the one causing the problem.
The silent treatment is just manipulative and emotionally abusive......not to mention imature and childish. But if you ask him to sweep the floor and he doesn't want to....he will sweep it half assed and leave the pile in the floor. Rather than confront you and say "I don't want to sweep the floor". But if you complain.....you are the bitch......that is PA behavior. Several places around the NPD thread there are check lists of traits associated with NPD. I have not been on the PA thread much so I don't know if there is a checklist on there.
If you google "Passive Agressive Disorder" you will find some pretty decent reading. Also "sociopathic disorders" will have information on several of the other disorders....some of which can be associated with NPD.
Status: S & D'ing
Let's all the (((TRIBE))) sing happy carols with our Co-Morbid Chorus!
la la la
Like I said, I am still looking for answers to help me heal faster. It seems the more I can try to figure out what the hell happened, the better I can handle it.
"Obladi oblada life goes on...."
My first WW married the AP, but even with all that, she doesn't come near to holding a candle to the utter awfulness of the current stbx.
There's a big difference.
some WS's have remorse, and do the hard work of R. I admire them for that.
NPD's have no remorse. Empathy is just a word in a dictionary.
An emotion they do not have.
There's no there there.
NPD part IV, from 2007, is wayyy back in the ICR forums.
It would be good to read, save the helpful links and insights that have been posted...before it poofs to the SI archives.
Some of the wisest, most caring, and most beautiful people I've ever *known*.
Sorry you ended up here. At our age group and after all the years of marriage, etc...
STBXWW was diagnosed in mental health facility after her first suicide attempt. I too did not know what that meant. I spent all my time and energy for most of a year trying to prove she wasn't. The more research I did, the more I proved she was. I desperately did not want it to be true. I knew if she was.....I would have to let go. Accepting that they never loved us is the hardest part for all of us here. Everyone that has ended up here struggled with that the most.
We will be here as you start your journey to NPD freedom. You have a diagnosis so you are ahead of those that do not. I hope to see you on the other side.
I do not post much since other members of the tribe are smarter and better spoken than I but I lurk all the time and have learned alot. Listen to what the "elder" members of the tribe tell you and learn from their wisdom.
I am glad you have had an epiphany, it is the start of the healing road. Keep reading and keep posting and you will get through this.
[This message edited by time to heal at 3:56 PM, December 26th (Monday)]
Frank was a blessing a month or so ago. I kept asking "why wasn't I good enough that he would treat me like he did, why wouldn't he fight to save our family?" Without frank sending me here I would still be a pathetic BS wandering around asking why. I desperately wanted to understand. NPD was my answer along with probably other characters flaws.
With understanding the healing and strength began and now when I doubt or he throws crumbs at me, I remember the cruel stuff he has done over many years and how lonely I have been. I deserve better than that, repeat, we deserve better than that!
I don't miss wanting to cancel Christmas!
I don't miss his road rage when we traveled.
I don't miss him claiming that things we picked out together (not intended as Christmas gifts) were gifts and then bragging at how perfect it was for me.
I don't miss agreeing not to buy each other presents (because the ones I bought were never "right") and then having him buy me gifts anyways under the guise of being from the kids.
I don't miss him blowing the budget on something for me (after we'd agreed not to buy for each other) and then being upset that I didn't buy something of equal value for him.... and then not having a clue why I wasn't thrilled by it and excited to have the budget blown so badly (this was a beans and rice, rice and beans type bare budget year).
I don't miss wishing I didn't have to go to Christmas parties where he was the life of the party and I was mocked by his "jokes".
I don't miss his mother telling him that I was holding a grudge because he had hurt me so much during the gift giving and she'd made it worse.
I don't miss the migraines from traveling to see his family and dealing with cigarette smoke (they're a trigger for me) and then being told that I was faking it and was doing it because I hated his family (I didn't) though I did get discouraged by mil - but my ex played us against each other to boost his ego.
I'm slowly learning to enjoy this time of year again. It's taking longer than I like but it took even longer to do the damage.
That didn't happen.... we're divorced as a result.
It was bad because I had a spinal tap last Monday to rule out MS and he, once again, wasn't there for me. I know that I can't expect him to take me to my appointments anymore but he didn't take me to a single one this year even while we lived together. I got really sick with a 103.4 temp and my daughter had to take me to urgent care and they wouldn't treat me. I guess I was really delirious because she said I said mean things to her so I feel really bad about that and have apologized to her. It is really bad because my stupid heart still misses him even though I know he never loved me and actually told me that at least if I had cancer we would know how to treat it. Nice thing for a loving husband to say to a sick wife. Made it even worse when I actually was diagnosed with skin cancer and he didn't apologize or offer support. I don't want him back because I really do know that he is not good for me and that I stayed 5 years too long, I know he cheated on me for at least 2 years, I know he did drugs while we were married, and I know it would be more of the same slow destruction of my self esteem. It just hurts so much to be sick and having to deal with all this alone. I just keep asking myself why? Why couldn't he take care of me when I got ill? Why was he so happy that I would love him and want to marry him with is disabilities but the minute I got really ill he no longer wanted me? Why does he still believe that I am not really ill? Why does he down play ever single illness that I have been diagnosed with? Why do I have to sit and wait for the test results alone? The brain fog that comes with one of my illnesses is getting so bad I am worried I may have to move in with my daughter and I don't want that, I want to be independent but I may not have an option soon.
I don't want to miss him but I do and I hate that my heart hasn't caught up with my head yet. I need to plaster it around my place that he is bad for me. I need to write post it notes about why I can't ever go back.
Am I alone in feeling like this or do you guys go through the same thing? I have only been separated for 6 months so is there a time frame for when it no longer feels like you lost the person you were supposed to grow old with?
You only miss things when there is an empty space where they use to be. Fill that empty space with other facets of life.....at least as best you can. It took a lifetime to fill the space the first time but it only took a few seconds to completely emty that space.
Time is only part of the solution. How you fill that space is the other part. The sooner you fill that space the sooner you will not miss what was there.
I know finances play a big part in that. If I could, and could have, done all the things I wanted right away, the healing would have been much faster. I wanted to buy a Harley, put $10K in my pocket and point west.....just wander for a few months. That would have filled my life with new adventures, new memories, new dreams, new people, etc.... All of that would have filled the empty space in my heart, soul, and physical presence. Unfortunately I let it get to me and I quit functioning completely. Could not work, therefore.....no money. This resulted in me sitting around dwelling on the past. When you feel like you have no future to look forward to, then all you can do is look back. I spent a lot of time looking back and that kept me from healing.
I still glance back now and then and what I see still hurts. I still see an empty spont where my life. as I knew it, has vanished. It reminds me of the joke where you tell the doctor "it hurts when I do this or that". The doctor says "then quit doing that".
One thing I learned from riding my bike many years ago. If you focus on the road ahead and where you are trying to go, then you don't hit the obstacles. For example: Riding a dirt bike up a trail and you come to a narrow spot between two rocks. You know you can squeeze through. If you look beyond the rocks and focus on that spot, then you will not hit the rocks. If you focus on the rocks.....you will hit the rocks. I am not making this shit up....it is not a saying.....it is a fact. I have tested that theory many, many, times. It is 100% accurate.
Start focusing on your future and not the obstacles. And by all means, stop looking back....you crash a lot less when looking forward..... Sorry, another motorcycle analogy that holds true in day to day life.
After a night of unspeakable cruelty, today he's kind and loving.
This is a tried and true method abusers use to keep their victims on the hook. It's a form of crazymaking...a way to keep you off balance, still believing "it's possible" they're *normal*.
I know I didn't mention last night's cruelty, either...I was hoping nice and loving would last...and bringing last night up would have been a huge buzz kill.
AND, my fault - for bringing it up and ruining the loving mood.
I'd get more cruelty.
Nuh uh. No thanks. I'm keepin the peace. Keepin silent.
I believe every one of us has experienced this, so you're definitely not alone.
It is abuse.
Read read read. Then read some more. You have every right to every sliver of information you can use.
If you find yourself fitting in here,
you're in the best place you could be, and Frank's right about the rocks.
Thank you for the wonderful website full of information! I have spent quite a lot of time reading it, and it is very useful (unfortunately).
and Frank's right about the rocks
Seriously, I used to ride dirt bikes with a couple of guys. They always cleared the obstacles with ease and I used to hit them with ease. One day I was bitching loudly and the guy I was riding with said "it's easy" then he told me how he did it. I changed my riding style and suddenly I was not hitting the obstacles.
I learned to transfer that into every day life. It helps.
To prove a point....when you are driving a car and something catches your eye on the right side of the road and you start to focus on it.....don't you look up and find you have drifted closer to the edge of the road......thus the jerk of the wheel. Then when you look further down the road....you don't drift.
Uh Huh, Uh Hud,......tell me I am wrong.....Not!!!
Keep your eye on where you want to go and do not get distracted or focus on obstacles.....it is a lot less painful.
No one knew what he is really like, no one knew how he raged at me or how he ruined every Christmas for me.
NPD's are kind of like "Good time Charlie". They are there for the good times, along for the glory days, there to celebrate the sucesses, and for the good life.
When it comes time to "being there" for their spuse in troubled times, or during the "sickness" part or in times of a lost job or death of a loved one, the NPD is usually either absent, "working" or acting out sexually or in some other way.
As long as everything is running along smooth and the NPD doesn't have too much pressure or responsibility, AND as long as you can cater to his needs wants and demands, things will be fine. But if
something happens (like life)
everything will collapse.
You simply cannot count on an NPD to be a life PARTNER. They are not capable of doing so. It would be like expecting a 4 year old child to be mature and responsible under the same circumstances. It's impossible.
Have you spoke to your IC about the possibility of you suffering from PTSD? This is very common in victims of NPD. I was diagnosed with it during my separation. Sometimes it's just too much to bear and our minds just shut down due to the pain. I too was dealing with a serious medical condition and my STBX (at the time, now he's an X) was so cruel. Within one week I found a lump on my breast, found out my husband was not only cheating, but had an OC he had hidden for almost 2 yrs! He had alcohol problems too and was also violent so I had him removed with a protection order. Then the stalking and harassment began.
The pain of the discovery was ad enough, but his intentional cruelty was almost more than I could comprehend.
Denial became a form of self protection for me.
You are dealing with so much so soon. Please talk to your doctor about this and don't be too proud to ask for help.
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001 (I didn't know)
Remarried 2008 (Happy!)
This is hard for me to swallow but my breakthroughs are strong and daily. We never talk about what happened and he is fine with that. We are never intimate and he is fine with that. He is finding more games to play and more porn to watch and pays no attention to me or the kids.
The other day he had to take a test for his job and I said you probably have a cheat sheet and he said I would never cheat on a test, or a game and I said no just your relationship. He turned his head so quickly and stopped talking and I found myself getting angry so I just walked out.
This is so hard to accept, we have been together so long it is like a habit instead of a relationship. I have stopped asking questions because I know he will never tell the truth, so I have to accept that the only thing I know is he cheated and gave me an STD. I have to continue to watch his computer use like he is a child because of the porn he has chosen makes me nervous, it is shemale and animal porn. I have to watch his bank account because all he does is lie about where his money goes. And he can lie to me so easily.
I have researched NPD and found that all these behaviors are to be expected, that they lie, cheat, and make promises they will never keep. That there normal is what they see not what they feel becuase they have no feelings.
So now I understand what NPD is and what to expect and even how to talk to them, my problem is how do I get out from this grip? What do I do with this information and set myself free?
I understand that he will cheat again, it is what he does, I know he will never be honest, and I know all of this is just an act for him. But through gaining all this knowledge I have lost myself even more, I know this is not healthy and that my feelings of him doing this again will never go away, but I feel trapped and afaid of actually leaving and accepting that all this was a mistake.
I drown myself in self help books, I go to church, I am careful not to watch certain things on tv and limit my conversation with him to the basics. I have changed every part of my life while he remains the same.
He continues to take charge of paying the bills, controlling me and making me feel like it is all in my head, if I ask him about anything or try to talk he acts like a scatter brain and I haqve to repeat myself. I went outside the box a couple of weeks ago and asked him to please tell me truth about what he did and he said that he told me truth and offers no explanation for any part of it. He got angry and said that he is an animal, and gave an example of another time he had sex with someone and went on about his business. Which to me was just more proof that he could care less and that my feelings mean nothing to him.
How could I have been so blind to all of this for so long? He has been addicted to something since we have been together and I always brushed it off to him needing an outlet. I just do not want to spend my new year this way and could really use some insight to my feelings.
[This message edited by time to heal at 3:25 PM, December 28th (Wednesday)]
And if someone could read my previous post and help me I would really appreciate it.