You're awesome... so glad you are hanging in there and being strong.
I wish I could finally get to the angry stage, I hope it comes soon.
Soverly - I'm so sorry you were so close on New Years...I wish I had been there to help you as you helped me. I'm so happy that you pulled yourself out of the trenches and found the strength to keep going. Your husband is not worth your life and neither is mine. They already stole our lives from us and maybe we're stuck in Stockholm syndrome at time and afraid to leave our abuser, rise up and create a life of our own because we no longer can function without of the dysfunction???
Thank you all, you are wonderful to have in a gal's corner. Much love to you all!
You are not the wrapper to keep the kids safe, you are their life, you are their momma, and you are their HERO! Keep repeating that to yourself until it sinks in. He is the sperm donor but you are the gift of life and the HERO who tried to protect them from his actions.
Be proud of the mom you are and wear it proudly. He only wants to use the kids in the "Gee, look what a great dad I am" game. They don't feel love so it is all show. You DO love your children and that is what is important. Protect them from what he will do when he plays them off as his great kids until they irratate him and he sends them home.
Be strong and know that you are so much better then "a wrapper to keep the kids safe". Think it and be it, be a strong mother and fight for what you and your children deserve. And it isn't his crap. The love will die in time but the NPD will always be an NPD. He can't change, he won't change even if he wanted to it isn't possible.
BE A PROUD STRONG MOM!!!!
pm me anytime you need to.
I just laughed out loud at the sperm donor comment. You had no idea how accurate that is. He has 2 kids with his first wife, 1 with his ex fiance and he signed that one over and doesn't support him and now it will be 2 with me. Now he's working on number 4 I'm sure.
You are so right, he uses all the kids to appear to be a great dad, but I've found he abuses the pregnant mothers. My OBGYN told me it is very typical that men mistreat their pregnant wives because they are jealous that they are not the center of attention. He said "there's a word for it and its called narcissism". I nearly fell off the table, he was so dead on.
Thank you for your words, I will not be a wrapper...I'm going to keep saying that over and over. I adore my children and even love all of his, something he didn't do for my oldest daughter. I've seen the how badly he hurts his own children and confuses them. He spares them nothing and they are clearly messed up from this situation. Another woman in their life that loved them and is now gone. I'm sad for them.
Keep the faith, it will get better for you too. Give that beautiful grand daughter of your hugs and kisses to get through every tough time. They are the ones that keep us grounded and full of joy through these hard times. I hope your court case comes to a close soon and that you are able to wake up one day and it will all be in your past. You are amazing and deserve someone that sees you for the wonderful person you are.
He wanted me to say that he is doing the right thing and he has been since I found out and I refused to say it and when I tried to say something he shut me down but he kept talking so I asked him why was he still allowed to talk and what makes him think I am listening.
Before that conversation happened he was mad that I was receiving gifts for christmas and no one gave me any. I aksed him if was two?
I would think that even a person with NPD would be able to see that you get what you give. And a lot of people know what happened and think I am crazy for being here so they do not want to have anything to do with him but he does not know that.
I read somewhere that a person with NPD gives away the very thing they want you to think is true by saying I am not doing anything wrong, or I only saw her three times, I never slept with her. It is like NPD code, decipher it to mean I am doing something wrong and I did sleep with her. Is that true?
I still wonder why he lies about his money and more than that why he watches shemale porn? It is becoming clear that he resents this family and gets mad when I point that out to him.
It is clear that I am not in a relationship, I am in a play which is in the last act. I still cannot beleive that I did not see any of this before.
After he said that to me last night I asked him how does he do it, talk to the women he loves like that and then say I love you? He did not comment.
I spent 4 years living with these rages if I said the slightes thing wrong and sometimes I never knew what it was I said. Once the rages begin they don't seem to end. Oh they may say they are sorry but they are just mimicing what they hear as they do not feel sorrow.
You are denying him his rightful truth and for that he will punish you. He shuts you down in order to twist things around until you think that somehow you are wrong. It is classic NPD. You will never win a battle with an NPD as the minute you make them angry they will either strom out, get drunk and rage at you or convince you that you are the one who is wrong.
I lived with my stbx for 12 years and it wasn't until 8 years into our marriage that I saw his first rage. Little did I know that he had ended his two year affair but was probably still doing coke. From 2008-2011 I endured his rages where he threatened to kill me, hit me and screamed the f word at me. In 2011 it was the final straw because I saw in his eyes the cold hard look of hate and I knew If I didn't get away he would either beat me or kill me.
I also know that it is so hard to accept what they are and how they can so easily shut off the love that tears us apart. For them the love was never there, we were good for their image and great supply. Once we are not good as supply or for their image they discard us like we never mattered.
Please be very careful when poking the bear as they can strike back without a second thought. They will make up lies about why they cheated, that you didn't love them anymore or it was a horrible marriage all to justify their cheating.
The hardest thing to do is walk away from an NPD as he has conditioned you to be afraid, have no self esteem and no self worth. You live in fear of his rages and you learn to walk on eggshells. It took me two full years to finally accept that he isn't the man I married and I hate the man he is now. But detaching is extremely hard when you love an NPD.
He is not the person I fell in love with and now that I see the chnages I have nowhere to go and have no idea what to do.
He came home from work early yesterday and said he was tired, but he did not take a nap and stayed up late.
I can tell he has no feelings and wonder how he could pretend for ten years.
What a waste of time all of this has been. Where do I go from here?
[This message edited by wontdefineme at 7:36 AM, January 12th (Thursday)]
I also asked my IC last year if my WH was NPD & he said that WH certainly does have some traits but stopped short of diagnosing WH as NPD.
I have always known that WH thought very highly of himself, was boastful & exaggerated his accomplishments. I called it 'tooting his own horn' & liking to be a 'big fish in a little pond'.
There are also many instances from the past when I can recall WH telling a story (one that I was involved in or had knowledge of the facts) & he would exxagerate it or change it to make himself look better, or cooler.
Also, big red flag now: WH told me when we were dating that his Dad drilled it into him to answer only the question that was asked, do not elaborate.
ie 'do you have a watch?' 'yes'. As opposed to 'do you have a watch?' 'yes, it's 5:30' I think that almost everyone would tell the person asking the time, am I wrong?
WH also told me back then that he tells half truths, which screams at me now: When someone tells you who they are, believe them the first time.
When WH & I were dating his Dad sat us down & proceeded to lecure WH (21 yrs old at the time) about being irresponsible, apparently WH had borrowed something from one of his Dad's friends & not given it back in a timely manner, nor had WH even used it yet to do what he needed to do.
Future FIL told me "WH is irresponsible, lackadaisical and he procratinates. I am washing my hands of him. He's your problem now."
I was so over-the-moon for WH, so naive. I just kind of laughed, like FIL was joking & said okay.
Anyway sorry for getting off track...
Last night I tried yet again to talk with
WH. We were talking about how I thought WH shows no remorse or empathy for my pain for his affair. WH said he just shows it different from what I want to see.
He told me he did not understand empathy. That I should show him someone on TV showing empathy so he could see what it looked like.
I asked him if he could relate to the pain someone feels when their parent dies, as WH's Mom died 5 yrs ago. I asked him if he felt bad they were in pain. (Used his cousin & Uncle or me & my Dad as examples) WH says he doesn't feel bad that his cousin lost his dad, doesn't understand why he should have to feel bad.
Maybe I used the wrong thing to try & explain empathy. I just know that it does not feel or look to me like WH has any remorse or empathy. He just wants to move forward & tells me talking about the affair is me choosing to stay in pain & not forgive.
Does it sound like my WH is NPD? I do believe he has traits and there are FOO issues that WH does not want to face, just not sure if he is full-blown NPD or a combo of issues.
I just feel so hopeless today. Thanks for listening.
Peace & Strength. AH
I have learned that for NPD, they usually pick someone who they feel has all the qualities they WISH they had.
It becomes an envious relationship because they begin to resent and eventually hate you because of those qualities. It usually starts with the whole, you bring out the best in me- I want to be a better person, if I stick with this person- I can eventually be like this person or people will see me LIKE this person..however, because they can only mimic/pretend for so long to be someone else, they get tired and eventually end up hating the person they are with.
I realized that I was his punching bag, what he used to like about me - he would eventually end up critisizing me about, trying to shut me out from my friends, he would plant doubt regarding the people around me being around me for a "reason" because they needed me not so much because they liked me( BOY should I have listened to that one-especially from HIM) etc etc.. he tried to tear me down so I could be or appear to be a crazy, evil person...all the while he could try to pretend to be the 'Nice' one in the relationship.
They need us as their punching bag to feel better about themselves. They can't love us because they hate/resent us. They picked us because we remind them of someone in their past (possibly parent) and they keep trying to gain their love/respect/affection they never got from the person in his past.
These NPD suffered some sort of trauma at an early age that prevented them from developing their emotions, so they end up adapting and or shutting down - the trauma causes them to learn to compartmentalize as a way to protect themselves at such an early age, they aren't able to grow and develop all emotions because they have to be so guarded at such a young age.
It took alot of analysis of my Ex's past and FOO to understand why and who he is and accept that there is no fixing him. He will forever be that wounded, hurt little boy that so desperately wants to be loved but because he never received it how HE needed- he will never understand.
I do pity him alot, but I also hate him because even as an adult and seeing the "social" norms he continues to make bad choices, some people have bad beginnings and learn and grow from them but he is one of those that will never.
I am glad I was able to get away, please look at getting out.
I also forgot to add, that the reason they treat us like crap and have a hard time changing that even after they claim regret and remorse (short lived) is because they don't respect us.
They have grown to only see us as their punching bag and hate us for even sticking with them, they can't respect us because they see us as weak.
They see and treat us with disdain, they will never respect us because they believe we allowed them to treat us like crap so why should they treat us any different? Even if the dynamics change- they will always have a hard time treating us with respect.
Once the respect is gone, it will never come back. Even if they fake or end up 'toeing' the line - they can't because their dislike of us is soo deeply ingrained.
You have done your homework. You understand the NPD. Education on NPD is the best tool you have for letting go.
To all those with NPDs.....read, study, learn, accept, and commit. That is the only process I know, that will get you back to being a whole person again.
We all throw away our dignity, trying so hard to get that one thing we desperately need to heal......EMPATHY. Time to get the dignity back.
Status: S & D'ing
Anyway. I've got nothing good to say here, just coming out of lurkdom to say thanks to everyone who posts. Reading what you have to say is really so helpful.
Hi, I'm Frank, I am a NPDaholic.
I don't think there is such a thing as NPD Anonymous. No 12 step program for detaching.....But maybe there needs to be.
I ended up realizing that it was either HIM or ME. It is a survival issue now. He tried and continues to try to destroy me.
For the women in here, there is an excellent book that I recommend greatly. It helped me see the dysfunction and when change, even a little bit of change happens- how the relationship stops working.
Women who love too much, Robin Norwood Why we pick each other..dynamics from the start of a relationship, how we fall or put ourselves in the trap.
The sociopath next door, Martha Stout... overall understanding of the different personalities.
The dance of the wounded soul, Codependence. By Robert Burney How to break free..
Hold me tight, Sue Johnston For those trying to remain in the relationship.
You have to definitely remove yourself from the situation and lock your emotions down tight. Most of them are Passive aggressive and ONLY when they know they have you BEAT will you start seeing the RAGE.
Mine never raised his voice, was aggressive, physical or verbal- was meek and quiet but BOY oh BOY - did I become aware FAST what he truly thought and had in store for me.. thanks to his exit affair who I was able to get info from.
Stay safe people, like Frank says read read read!
He was asking a "favor" of me that once the D is final, will I not tell people about the long term affair. He says it's a part of our marriage and it's no one's business. Of course, this is after he once again tells me that I seem to focus on the affair too much rather than our other issue. PLEASE! I'm sorry, I wanted to work on our one issue, he wasnt willing. Yes, it was 50% my fault but it was also 50% his fault too. I take full responsibility for my part. Never have denied that BUT, THE AFFAIR IS NOT ME AND NOT MY FAULT! That was all his doing!
He didn't even try to end it after Dday! Continued to lie and lie and then eventually not even try to say it was over. Never saw a reason for NC. At one point he pointed out that "I'm not lying to you and saying it's over" I guess I was supposed to think he was such an upstanding guy because he was at least not lying anymore?
I filed for divorce because of the affair! No other reason.
He's also trying to act like he's being so generous giving me half of the retirement fund at his work. That's right after he agreed that we maxed his out because of the great matching plan his employer has. We would've put more in my SEP or distributed it more evenly between the two but, it made more sense to sock most of it away in his.
So, he offered me only a third at first. Said he thought that was generous. I wouldn't go for it, now he says he agreed to giving me the "favor" I asked of him when I said I should get half. Really!? Not to mention that we live in a state where it's pretty much automatic that everything is split 50/50. It's not a favor I asked of him! The judge would laugh at him if he tried to give me just a third. HE HAD THE AFFAIR AND WOULDN'T EVEN CONSIDER ENDING IT, EVEN THOUGH HE THOUGHT WE'D JUST STAY MARRIED. He even like to throw it in my face that " well, you filed!". Um, duh! After nine months of being expected to share my husband, I kind of got tired of it.
After filing, I've learned so much about NPD and boy oh boy, that's him! Even his daughter has now pegged him.
I'm better at not engaging because I can see where the insane thought process is coming from now but, tonight I didn't do such a great job!
One step at a time, right
You must be twice as pissed!!!
You know the saying.....if they won't laugh with you then laugh at them.
Seriously though, just ignore him when he says stupid shit. And I think NPDs say more stupid shit than all the other categories of WSes put together.
They think they can keep the same act they had when we were naive and uneducated. They fail to realize that we are way more NPD savvy than we used to be. It's like they just don't get ANYTHING!!!! They don't get what they have done to us, They don't get what they need to do, and worst of all.....They don't get that we get them.....They don't get that we are onto them.
Frank, Have you read this one? Can you recommend any? I have already read Narcissistic Lovers and need something that will really help me to let go.