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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread part 9
juki
♀ Member
Member # 34784
Default  Posted: 6:37 AM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

These are the traits that he very much exhibits:

• Inability to empathy
• Feeling of entitlement
• Inability to admit that he or she is wrong
• Inability to receive criticism
• Unexpected, strong bursts of rage in situations that would not trigger rage in normal people. There aggressive outbursts are referred to as narcissistic rage.
• Does not react to tears. If other person starts crying due to the cruel behavior of a narcissist, that may even aggravate the rage of a narcissist
• Strong need for admiration. Admiration serves as a form of a narcissistic supply. Without sufficient amount of narcissistic supply a narcissist feels empty and unsatisfied. A narcissist is like a drug addict, and narcissistic supply in its different forms is the drug.
• In the beginning of the relationship idealizes one's partner and often talks about supreme, never-ending love. However as the relationship proceeds a narcissist often withdraws his or her attention and may become cold and uncaring, even cruel.
• Is often untruthful and due to this often ends up cheating in a relationship. Cheating is often a consequence of other traits of a narcissist, such as the feeling of entitlement (it is impossible for a narcissist to do anything wrong and so a narcissist does not perceive cheating to be a huge "crime"), inability to emphasize with the cheated partner and the need for admiration (narcisst supply)

He is also passive aggresive, has a martyr complex (he will do anything for me (acts of service)and that should make up for the rage and lack of emotion), and shows no emotion unless it's anger.

Oh, what I meant by "playing" my therapist, is he cried and broke down in front of her. He told her that if he could go back and undo everything, he would. He said that she thought that that looked like remorse. I think that he managed to get my therapist to sympathise with him and to question whether I am unreasonable in my need for REMORSE.

I do not think that saying that if you could go back in time, blah, blah, blah says anything. Because of course, you CAN'T go back in time. Remorse is focusing on something that you CAN do, and DOING it. He can't do that. He was upset and broke down because HIS life is going to hurt now. He still doesn't care what he did to me.

Thanks, I'm still reading this thread, and the lightbulbs just keep going off!

The sky looks a brighter shade of blue today :)


Me: 45
H(Sazerac): 46
M: 25,T: 27
S24

Posts: 550 | Registered: Feb 2012
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 7:13 AM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, what I meant by "playing" my therapist, is he cried and broke down in front of her.

If he is NPD.....the same results. He gleemed some sympathy and "victim" status from that little "act"......it it was an act. And if he IS NPD.....it WAS an act.

Not for me to say.....just giving you a different perspective.....fake remorse maybe???? IDK.....just a dfferent perspective from the NPD training we all got while under the NPD spell. Just because he convinced the therapist that he is remorseful doesn't mean he is.....they can fool the best psychoanalysts.....and often do.

Just be causious and don't necessarily believe what he tells you about his visits in IC.....hell ...... he may not have even shed a tear.


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
juki
♀ Member
Member # 34784
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for replying Frank.

I'm still trying to figure this out. I have over the years wondered if he was NPD, but didn't investigate very deeply.

Last week, I kicked him out. Well actually I gave him a choice: show me some emotion (other than anger) or leave. I don't know if that sounds crazy to anyone else, but I just couldn't stand it anymore.

I thought I might be able to shock him into seeing what he was losing by making him go.

He made the appt with my therapist to find out "why can't I feel my wife's pain that I caused".

And he came back with the regret speech that I spoke about in the previous post. I actually sympathized with his inability to feel anything (he sat there and said he couldn't feel anything in front of me). I let him stay the night, but didn't let my guard down too much. I was disappointed, but not willing to give in. But I sympathized with him.

The next day, Valentine's day, he called me at work and asked if he could come over later to talk. I had already told him not to bother unless he had something monumental to say.

When I got home he was already there. I had a bath, got on my laptop and checked the history. He had been googling "how to show remorse" "how to apologize". He then came in the room, sat down, and turned on the TV. I asked him why he was here (because of turning on the TV), and he got up, walked out, and checked into a hotel. Just like that.

Fast forward to after I lost it, sending him a couple emails telling him how much he had ruined my life, him coming back to say that "something is wrong with him", wait for me to "fix myself", etc.

When I refused to wait another day, week, month, whatever, he coldly told me "you knew this would happen" (if I pushed for seeing an emotional outburst from him, I would realize that there was nothing).

And he's right, I did know this would happen. And I didn't care. I wanted the truth, and I have it. I lost my mind that night, cried like I never have in my life. He sat there. I woke up with a true feeling that today is the first day of the rest of my life. Everything looks different, brighter.

I feel good and this thread is helping :)

I feel so hungry, literally hungry for food. My stomach grumbles constantly and after I eat, I feel like I didn't.

I am not an emotional eater and I don't have any kinds of eating disorders or weight issues.

Is this because my body is processing so much? Has this happened to anyone else?

Thanks again people!!!


Me: 45
H(Sazerac): 46
M: 25,T: 27
S24

Posts: 550 | Registered: Feb 2012
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He had been googling "how to show remorse" "how to apologize".

As you read you will find that they respond with learned actions that they draw from life's experiences. They react to situations that call for feelings.....with learned responses pulled from their library of learned responses. He has never learned what remorse looks like..... he couldn't pull it from his "library". He didn't know how to fake remorse.......so like any resourceful person......he googled it????

I know you probably don't see the humor in this but I kinda have a running humor with someone about "you can find anything with google. But I have never known anyone or about anyone who had to google how they were suppose to feel.....sorry.....it just struck me as hillarious.

As for the food thing, that too made me chuckle. We have never discussed it here that I know of. But since you brought it up.....Yeh I lost 65 lbs. after dday and I did not start gaining any back until after I faced the NPD diagnosis and accepted it. Then suddenly I was eating like a pig.....started gaining weight and now have a continuous appetite that I have to curb......hmmm.....maybe that belongs in a book.....in the chapter right after Googling Their Emotions.....

When you have been here a while and the NPD asswhippin is over you will start to see humor in everything they say or do. Cause they say and do some really weird shit.....especially when their NPD ramps up due to the stress of being caught.

Googled his emotions Really?

Still cracking me up.....


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I apologize, Juki, for having to agree with Frank over the whole Googling emotions. THAT is one I haven't heard yet. It literally made me laugh.

There are days when I can't laugh at anything about my WH, because it's so painful. But when I can laugh, it's good. Those days aren't as frequent as I'd like, at all.

Sounds to me like you got yourself an NPD, all right. And you may find yourself going around and around with the idea that he may not be. I do. I've been in here for about a month now, and I'm still wobbling like a Weeble.

Hang in there and post and read, read, read. It helps when you can understand what they're saying and doing is really saying. Because it's not what's actually heard/seen... it's a whole new language.

Anyway, I hate to welcome you, but since you seem to have to be here, I'll welcome you with (((((hugs)))))


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thought I'd give an update, since I've been rather quiet lately.

My daily life consists mostly of sitting/laying in bed all winter, except for rare excursions because I get stir crazy or have an appointment. My chronic pain does not allow for much of a life this time of year. So when WH handed me $100 to hold on to for my birthday dinner, "so we'll be sure to have enough," I put it away. I've been in a lot of pain, so I wasn't up to going out, and two weeks later, VDay came.

The night before, he'd gambled away what money we had left, so he came to ask for my birthday dinner money. I wasn't in a good mood already, so that was the icing on the cake. The 180 fell completely apart, and I got angry about handing over the money. I could have said no, but it was for milk and things we needed. If I didn't have a teenager who eats like a horse, I would have told WH to eat shit for breakfast.

So I told him I was angry and that it was wrong of him to be gambling our money away. He replied that it hadn't bothered me the week before when he won $300. That pissed me off... I told him NOT saying anything does NOT mean I agree with his actions. It only means I'm picking my fights. He said, "I hear ya, dear," turned and went back to the casino, then to the store. This day includes not having picked up my heart meds after I specifically told him they were ready, which means I went without them that day because he was busy at the casino.

Next day is VDay. He sold the car that morning, so he brought home a bouquet of roses, a card, and a beautiful heart locket. Asshole. I thanked him, and didn't make a fuss over them, but was animated over my mini pug wanting to lick the roses. That part was cute. But HE didn't get much reaction at all. The roses sat on my nightstand for a few hours, but I moved them where I can't see them.

Later that day, he asked me if he could take me to dinner. My gut wanted to scream NO, but because he played a card I couldn't refuse, I agreed. My 14 year old has never been to a nice restaurant, so I said yes, if only to give my son an indirect gift. We went to the casino restaurant - which DOES have really great food, and a VDay special menu buffet. My son ate a HUGE plate of prime rib, crab legs, and all kinds of things he's never had before. He ate two desserts. Later, when we got home, he had two slices of pizza, because he was still hungry. (Told ya he eats like a horse!)

One of the hoochies from WH's FB list was there. THAT was unpleasant, as they were at the next table and she kept staring daggers me. She's one of the ones he deleted, and I'm sure that was a blow to her pride. Her profile pic is a looking-down-at-her-boobs-in-a-Santa's-helper-outfit shot, which of course got lots of attention. (Too bad for her that from the waist down, she's really round. Her chair was smaller than her butt. Mine fit nicely. No wonder she's a bartender... she can hide that huge can from view and wow 'em with her boobs.) I was not happy that I had to sit near her, as I never cared for her to begin with, which is WHY she was on his friend list.

By the time we got home, I could barely walk. I was in soooo much pain, I was nearly crying. Was it worth it? For my son, yes. It was a gift I'd give him over and over. Otherwise, no. VDay was only good in that I got to watch my son enjoy a very great meal and try new things that he really loved. His smiles were precious to me.

I wobbled for a day after that - damn heartstrings! - and now am back to wanting out of here and 180. I'm on the hunt for resources and help. I hate that it's hard to find in our town. It's small and not very helpful.


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
juki
♀ Member
Member # 34784
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can see how it appears funny, and the fact that you do is actually reassuring to me, because I wondered "is it only me that finds that disturbing"?

I'm numb, which is a good thing. I feel quite detached atm.

He's no longer living elsewhere as we can't afford for him to stay in a hotel every night, and I really don't want to disrupt our sons life by having him move in there. S24 and I actually had a funny text exchange regarding who gets him. S24 for now only knows we're having problems, because H spent a night there the other night. I'm not telling him all the gory details while he's in study mode. He'll be moving out of his apt when he finishes school soon and leaves for work. I have to hang on until then.

I have to admit that I am not yet convinced that H is NPD, but that I am assuming he is, and letting that sink in unless he proves otherwise.

Nothing but a snot-bubble breakdown on his part is going to convince me at this point.

I am not having a hard time living in the same house now that I have detached. I am pleasant, polite, but not sharing.

I think I can continue like this for the foreseeable future. I have a lot to keep me busy. I work all day and I have a workspace in the house, where I can work all night. Don't worry, my work is fun and therapeutic! I'll actually be more productive, which is good for my biz. I'm going to need the money from the looks of things.

If he looks elsewhere for "supply" (if he isn't already), so be it. Speaking of which, my intuition has been pinging re: OW for a couple of years, but I have never found proof. But one thing really nags at me: quite often when I use a computer that he has been on last, it is in Cap lock mode. The only thing I can think of is that it is a pw for something and that it is case-sensitive. I forget about it, and then it happens again. It really drives me insane. If I mention it, he explodes!

Speaking of small talk, that is how he used to try to get me to return to "normal" in the past. It drove me nuts!

Thanks for the ((hugs))!!


Me: 45
H(Sazerac): 46
M: 25,T: 27
S24

Posts: 550 | Registered: Feb 2012
Free2012
♀ Member
Member # 34070
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As for the food thing, that too made me chuckle. We have never discussed it here that I know of. But since you brought it up.....Yeh I lost 65 lbs. after dday and I did not start gaining any back until after I faced the NPD diagnosis and accepted it. Then suddenly I was eating like a pig.....started gaining weight and now have a continuous appetite that I have to curb.

Frank and Juki, that is very interesting! I guess, it is normal to lose weight after dday and afterwards gaining it again, but I got a question:
my STBXNPDWH had an issue with fat people: he always remarked on it (Sometimes I think they could even hear it!!!) and even made remarks to me gaining weight during pregnancy (it was lost afterwards...........haha) but I do realize, that I enjoy eating more than before... Was that an issue with your NPD?


There is no way out but through

Divorced

BS: me 41 yrs
WH: him 67 yrs , married OW (39yrs) 5/13
2 kids aged 7 and 9
married for 12 years
D-Day 16.10.10
Divorced, final 03/12


Posts: 53 | Registered: Nov 2011
Free2012
♀ Member
Member # 34070
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, I'm still reading this thread, and the lightbulbs just keep going off!

The sky looks a brighter shade of blue today :)

Juki, also read thread 8. It has some really good advice from wonderful people (sadtoo, caregiver,FRank,...........). I haven´t posted very much but they carried me through a horrible year showing me that I had to believe sth I didn´t want to believe and giving me their experience, wisdom and strength to do the right things at the right time (most of the time). I also started IC pretty early and this woman also gave me insight of how the brain of these people work.

The book that helped me most was "Narcissistic lovers".

What I struggle with the most is the idea that if he is NPD he never was the empathetic and supporting spouse I thought I had for 10 years......and sometimes I still wonder how someone can pretend for so long......... Sometimes I wish (!!!!!no, Frank, I don´t hope, I just wish) I am mistaken about the diagnose........


There is no way out but through

Divorced

BS: me 41 yrs
WH: him 67 yrs , married OW (39yrs) 5/13
2 kids aged 7 and 9
married for 12 years
D-Day 16.10.10
Divorced, final 03/12


Posts: 53 | Registered: Nov 2011
juki
♀ Member
Member # 34784
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Free.

I ordered the book Narcissist Lovers this morning. I should get it soon. I have been seeing IC for a couple of weeks. She is the reason why I have woken up from MY "fog".

Meant to say that S24 lives in an apt that we own. When he finishes school and leaves for work, H can move in there.

THAT will be hard, S24 moving away from here to start his life. He is either moving to the other side of our country or to another one :(

I just realized something. H's horrible anger started after our son moved into the apt a few years ago. I never made that connection before now.

No, I don't want to believe it's NPD. Of course. But I am seeing him through a new lense now, like you all mentioned... sucks.


Me: 45
H(Sazerac): 46
M: 25,T: 27
S24

Posts: 550 | Registered: Feb 2012
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Juki, we all go back and forth, I think, over whether they are NPD. That, I would say, is normal. I still do it, even with all the signs and history. It's really hard to look at who we married/live with and put that label on them. Because the bottom line is that, if they are NPD, they don't love us. They can't ever feel bad for us. They aren't who we thought they were. It's far worse than an affair, which can be healed from... it's a personality disorder that will remain forever. That is very scary.

For me, it means that I can't trust that I'll never pick another one. I am a 4 time loser in the NPD department. My first WH, the two relationships after, and this WH are all NPD, as far as I can tell. Looking back, I can see so much that I ignored because I thought it was normal. But with this new knowledge, I know better now. What I've lived with, my entire life, is abnormal. It's frightening to me that my childhood damaged me badly enough to create such a great supply for them, and that I am 48 and just figuring this out.

This is not easy to deal with.

ETA: soverybetrayed is another great source!

[This message edited by SoHurt at 3:15 PM, February 16th (Thursday)]


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
juki
♀ Member
Member # 34784
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Almost forgot: I'm pretty sure that H would have a problem if I gained a lot of weight.

I'm small but curvy and he's always been proud of the way I dress. I'm pretty sure that if he couldn't "show me off", it would not work for him.

He is tall, handsome, and trim. He makes a great visual. It's what is underneath, and what comes out of his mouth that is ugly.


Me: 45
H(Sazerac): 46
M: 25,T: 27
S24

Posts: 550 | Registered: Feb 2012
juki
♀ Member
Member # 34784
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Free, I didn't even think about MY predeliction for NPDs!

I highly doubt that I would be interested in anyone for quite some time. Looks like I will have a lot of work to on myself in the future.

My IC has already brought up the fact that my mother and H share a lot of similarities.

I haven't given her much thought, ever, but I'm starting to connect the dots now.

God, I hope my son isn't damaged too!! He's such a sweet kid (young man :))

Hugs to all of you.

And thanks for helping me with this.


Me: 45
H(Sazerac): 46
M: 25,T: 27
S24

Posts: 550 | Registered: Feb 2012
juki
♀ Member
Member # 34784
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oops, meant that for SoHurt :)


Me: 45
H(Sazerac): 46
M: 25,T: 27
S24

Posts: 550 | Registered: Feb 2012
Free2012
♀ Member
Member # 34070
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

soverybetrayed is another great source!

Yes, that is very true!!!!!!!!!!


There is no way out but through

Divorced

BS: me 41 yrs
WH: him 67 yrs , married OW (39yrs) 5/13
2 kids aged 7 and 9
married for 12 years
D-Day 16.10.10
Divorced, final 03/12


Posts: 53 | Registered: Nov 2011
Free2012
♀ Member
Member # 34070
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My kids will soon meet the ow.... and my daughter is not keen on seeing her father tomorrow (they stay every second weekend with him).

I guess one just has to stay calm...???

How did you manage? SHE doesn´t knor he is NPD, she sees him as KISA!!!!

PLus: She is so much taken by him, that she wanted to have a menage a trois!! How can a mistress seriously send a letter to the wife of her lover telling her it is her fault the family brakes up because SHE is willing to share..........and my husband wanted me to stay together as housemates.......saw that severyl times around here..........


There is no way out but through

Divorced

BS: me 41 yrs
WH: him 67 yrs , married OW (39yrs) 5/13
2 kids aged 7 and 9
married for 12 years
D-Day 16.10.10
Divorced, final 03/12


Posts: 53 | Registered: Nov 2011
juki
♀ Member
Member # 34784
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

is Soverybetrayed a screen name?

I can't find a search function on here. And I cannot for my life figure out how to quote!


Me: 45
H(Sazerac): 46
M: 25,T: 27
S24

Posts: 550 | Registered: Feb 2012
Free2012
♀ Member
Member # 34070
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

quoting is easy. Just copy the text and then mark it and press "quote"


There is no way out but through

Divorced

BS: me 41 yrs
WH: him 67 yrs , married OW (39yrs) 5/13
2 kids aged 7 and 9
married for 12 years
D-Day 16.10.10
Divorced, final 03/12


Posts: 53 | Registered: Nov 2011
juki
♀ Member
Member # 34784
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Free!

What??? Your FH's OW wants to include you in their sexlife?

I must be reading this wrong...

I hope I'm reading this wrong.

Seriously, that is so wrong.


Me: 45
H(Sazerac): 46
M: 25,T: 27
S24

Posts: 550 | Registered: Feb 2012
Free2012
♀ Member
Member # 34070
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Juki, no not in their sexual life.... she wrote me a letter putting the blame on me, because he doesn´t want to leave the family and she can not stop loving him, it is therefore not her fault that she helped destroying the marriage, he means the world to her, etc.
So she said I shouldn´t be so conventional, I should be generous and I should think about the offer. In the meantime she travelled to almost all sites / hotels I have been happy with my husband....(she booked it).......
As my husband wanted to stay together as housemates the offer was thus: we stay together as a couple to the outside world and I allow him to see her regularly..... She would be ok with it.......

I just didn´t play along....so guess who is the one to blame here??????


There is no way out but through

Divorced

BS: me 41 yrs
WH: him 67 yrs , married OW (39yrs) 5/13
2 kids aged 7 and 9
married for 12 years
D-Day 16.10.10
Divorced, final 03/12


Posts: 53 | Registered: Nov 2011
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