I have resisted engaging in a war of words with OW because you will never win. The OP will always be in a position to say something that will hurt you more than you will be able to do to them - they already know what they are & have justified it to themselves. They can hurt you however just by throwing up A details to you , etc.
As far as a physical confrontation- there's the obvious physical & criminal repercusions. It also shows them exactly how much you have been hurt by them.
It's hard to resist, but it's better just to lay low.
Now having said that, I regularly day dream about an opportunity where OW throws the 1st punch & then I blast her! With no criminal issues.
So train for it, but don't start it.
Hang in there Deep. You have enough troubles. Don't add to them.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 6:44 PM, September 4th (Sunday)]
purple: well in part 26 i was so so proud of you....you were taking a stand there....a very important stand that i think you need to take....
as for part 27....well im with allgood here...and am glad to hear that its just projecting....i think though that some of that projecting needs to go where it belongs....to your ww...she is the one who betrayed you, she is the one who made promises to you...and she is the one who hurt you.....and im sorry
allgood: wow,...all those issues and you not only got everyone to both destinations but they all had a good time too....wacky thing about the seat belt...totally wacky
nell: what the hell is ymmv???? i googled it and the phrase google gave me makes no sense to me...
hope your ankle gets better, in the meantime maybe you could do some hot chair yoga..
and remember nell, one step at a time....as for waking him up, sadly i dont think he will wake up and smell the coffee til you kick him to the curb...
you know the other day i was thinking almost the same thing....but only to a certain extent....there i was yet again explaining something to pfm...being completely fustrated with his lacking everything and wondering what will it take for this man to get it...and then silently i rang that bell in my head...ding ding ding.....stop being a ding dong, he doesnt get it, he is never gonna get so "I" need to move on and "I" need to "GET THAT"....and i laughed....the irony....wanting him to be able to "get it" and me i have to "get it (pfm)" myself...and the sad truth is he is who he is and thats IT, that is really IT.....and maybe someday it will change, but it wont be for me, my marriage or my sanity.....and thats what I NEED TO GET....
tryn: i hope you find some peace from all your fears..
The more lies and the more he tries to blame-shift, the stronger he makes me
thats like that expression, that which does not kill us makes us stronger...or something like that....and sadly and yet gladly...me too.....getting stronger is good, just so damned sad how..
And for thosecwondering im just waiting for the PI to gove his report then its onto tell om wife. Carnage ahead or is it karma...i just want a real life again.
Lostsuol, I’m sorry you are still in this place of aching pain. I’m spending too much time feeling the same sort of way. I won’t talk about the affair or how my/our life has changed anymore – those type of conversations just don’t go anywhere. fWH has never worked on himself, so how can he help me? He just doesn’t recognise anything that might be a trigger – and some of them are pretty fucking obvious, but he’s just Mr Oblivious, walking on through with his hob nailed boots on.
Now having said that, I regularly day dream about an opportunity where OW throws the 1st punch & then I blast her! With no criminal issues.
>>sigh<< fWH rang me Friday morning and said he had to work that night and Saturday to help the warehouse get a job out. He asked me if I would like to go with him and I said yes. I threw some stuff into a bag, he came in and grabbed his overnight bag and, after telling DS16 what there was to eat, we left. But it wasn’t a good idea. I never stayed over with him when he worked for this company before (Jul 2004 – Jul 2007) and it was this job that helped keep his affair going. He would invite MOW to stay with him. And they stayed in some very nice hotels. We stayed in the hotel the company has an account with and I know they didn’t stay there. I was the only spouse and so dinner was with a colleague. Which was ok. I had Saturday to myself, fWH suggested I went to Stratford (no thanks) or Warwick (no thanks) so I opted to go to an outlet village for some veerrry expensive fashion brands (Gucci, Dior, Westwood, Alexander McQueen, Prada, you get the picture!) I needed to go somewhere I reckoned they had never been and I thought 35 miles was far enough away. I couldn’t face going to the towns/villages where they went, stayed, shopped, did the theatre and all that. Even after all this time. And driving back home, the satnav took us past no end of hotels (including the expensive 5* last one they stayed at) and up the motorway past various other places they met, so by the time I got home, I was just exhausted. I should have ignored it since I was driving and taken the alternative route. I really thought I could beat it. I’m not taking up another offer. Just had to get this out there.
I think it is very unfair to OMW if she does not know. Don't do it for revenge. Do it out of compassion for a fellow human being abused and being trespassed on.
As for your anger feelings toward OM. You know I had these feelings (maybe still have?). My therapist told me a couple things.
1) I was in danger of making one problem turn into a HUGE problem. I was going to make my life worse.
2) Make a plan. My plan is to turn and walk away. Don’t say a word. NOT A WORD. Nothing OM could say to me is of any value. I have passed OM in my car once. He was with his son in a parking lot. He didn’t see me. I gave it a thought to turning around and confronting him. My plan popped into my mind. I did not turn around. It worked. What is your plan?
Those two things above took some brain power by me. It wasn't always easy. Make your plan to be a good man. I have a feeling you will.
[This message edited by trynhard at 8:44 AM, September 5th (Monday)]
I guess this is kinda my own self evaluation.
As I look at me then, and today, I am able to compare some of my feelings about fears. Lostsoul asked about wearing a mask. The mask is usually about fears. I can still fear, but I have courage. I can share my feelings with my W. She could still be in her depression by my mask is down. I cannot control her own feelings nor she control what I feel. We can only be desirable to each other. This must be very confusing to her. I have a new love for my W beyond anything she has experienced. No, I would not have changed had dday never come.
For me, before dday I really did not have any fears concerning my relationship or my M. Zero, zippo and none. My views of people changed after dday.
Today, 3 years later, you can see how I have changed.
True, I have a good relationship. All of my desirables are being met. But it has not changed my feelings like before dday.
I accept I will never be the same.
Please don't feel sorry for me about my change. I like myself today. I like having these feelings. I am living real life today. I am not living this life in automatic, cruse control, or auto pilot. I am living a life more real. Can that make sense to anyone?
Today, my W is very desirable.
These are Desire Builders
10 being the best!
- Affirmation (She gets a 9)
- Positive attitude (She gets an 6.5)
- “Present and Future” Focused (she gets a 9.5)
- Communication (she gets an 8)
- Cooperative attitude (she gets a 9.75)
- Forgiveness (she gets an 8 for me, giving it to herself a 3)
- Affection (She gets a 8)
- Positive “self Talk” (she gets a 6)
- Change (she gets a 9.5)
- Reliability (she gets a 9)
- Romance (she gets a 4, when I initiate a 9.5)
- Prayer (she gets a 7)
I am happy most all of the time. From 3 years ago having great sadness hours and hours during the day... to today, maybe some sadness a few minutes a week. Good time is huge, vastly greater than bad time. I am healing for this trauma
I give myself a overal good feeling rating of an 8. Almost to pre-dday.
I hope you all can feel at peace too. Keep working!
[This message edited by trynhard at 8:54 AM, September 5th (Monday)]
Mitz: I'm sending you hugs. I hope you can hang in there and post more often.
UKgirl: It's good to hear from you again. Those damn triggers can be daunting. Don't stop talking about the A. Keep journaling about your feelings to help acceptance. I don't mean to wallow in the despair and pain, but to explore it more and perhaps desensitize yourself.
Deep: I think you have focused your anger and hatred toward the OM so you can exist in the same house as WW. It's good that you are taking out that energy in a positive way by exercising. Maybe a little Tae Kwon Do or Ninjitsu may help focus that anger too? Stay strong and focused and be ready for the drama to begin when you confront. Please keep posting here while this is going on!
Miracle: Bravo! You had to "get it" that pfm will NOT get it. Sounds mixed up, but I understand. This is the acceptance that you need. I believe you wanted him to change that aspect, that he would understand that he is still lying about the stupidest things, but I don't think he ever will. Stop banging your head against a brick wall and walk around it. KWIM? Good luck with school!! YOu are my hero!
Tryn: You know, you have posted those desire builders many times, but this is the first time I really got it. I looked at the list and realized that WH did everything on that list for a long time and ranked quite high, but was still cheating. All those desire builders distracted me from what was going on. As the years went by, he was more and more inconsistent with it, and told me it was my fault that he wasn't acting that way. Slowly, but surely, the "numbers" would go down to zero, and then he would do them up to a 9 or a 10 for a while , so I kept hanging on.
I was fighting for a M like the beginning. But I have to look at today and the past 2 years of behavior and what the future holds. Right now, the rankings are all zero. WH kept telling me that he can no longer "accomodate" me, and I guess this is what he meant.
It was all an illusion.
I have to learn more and more to validate me.
Tryn, I like how you put that you are going to live your life and not be on autopilot. This is something I am going to strive to do.
Tribe: I was just surviving the past 2 years. I can't thank each and every one of you enough for keeping me afloat. I would not be here, literally, if it wasn't for you guys.
As my therapist has pointed out, that the wound can still open, triggers can still happen and make you sad, but we bounce back faster. I no longer run to my bed and crawl up in a fetal position for hours. I had a trigger yesterday, went to the bathroom, cried for 20 seconds and stopped. It's ok.
Love to you all.
tryn: wow, i didnt realize that you had your d-day before mine....this dec will be 3 years for me....i cant believe how much time has passed....its been the longest fastest time of my life......in way more ways it feels like i have been in pain forever.....i guess thats also because my marriage always sucked anyways...
and i understand about you being in a small way happier now....thats because you changed yourself to become a desirable too...not just to your wife but to yourself...
ukgirl: do you think you might try some emdr for those triggers....???
Tryn’ like you, before d-day, I didn’t relate to adultery at all. It simply wasn’t part of my life. So I had pretty much good feelings and was a <1 on:
H cheating – never occurred to me
Me being alone – never felt at risk
Being emotionally hurt – he loved me!
Changes in house, routine, etc – no prob
Self esteem (okay, maybe a 3)
For the Desire Builders, WH did most of them before d-day. Not always, granted. But he was pretty good. I now see it as manipulation of the highest order. It was as if he had been on a Neuro Linguistic Programming course to keep me in check.
Desire Builders WH before d-day/after d-day:
- Affirmation – 9 / 9.5
- Positive attitude – 8 / 9
- “Present and Future” Focused – 9 / 9
- Communication – 7.5 / 9
- Cooperative attitude – 8 (if I asked right, 10) / 9
- Forgiveness – for me, 9.5 (not surprising I could do no wrong…..) / 10 (for himself as well as me)
- Affection – 9.5 (generally, if MOW wasn’t pushing) / 9.5
- Positive “self Talk” – 7 (lowest score, but again not surprising considering what he was doing) / 8 (could do better, but I don’t help……)
- Change – 8.5 (he wanted change, to emigrate and talk about the future……..) / 8.5
- Reliability – 8 usually pretty good / 9.5
- Romance – 9 / 9
- Prayer (sorry, N/A)
Desire Builders UKgirl, before d-day/after d-day
- Affirmation – Not enough / 6
- Positive attitude – 8 / 6
- “Present and Future” Focused – 9 / 5 (I only plan short term)
- Communication – 8.5 (I read books, talked to friends, tried to talk to WH, wrote letters and notes to him – to no avail) / began with 10, now it’s 6 at best
- Cooperative attitude – 9.5 (I did try, and I don’t think I’m kidding myself) / 5
- Forgiveness – 9 quite easy, / now I can’t. No score. Forgiveness for me, probably the same.
- Affection – 9.5 / 7.5
- Positive “self Talk” – 8 / 4
- Change – 8.5 I was willing and I tried / 5
- Reliability – 9.5 / 8
- Romance – 9 / 7
- Prayer – I did, now I don’t.
Not very good scoring, eh? Maybe I should “communicate” this with fWH. Expect it wouldn’t make the blindest bit of difference. He says he wants to know what I’m thinking and feeling, but the truth is, if it’s negative or about the affair, he doesn’t. We’ve not touched on the LTA more than a handful of times in the last three years. He says he wants to make me happy, but he doesn’t want to change anything about himself. He’s still there in the wings, waiting for me to get off the stage so we can go home.
I try to not let MOW get to me, but on my monthly check up on her and her family, I noticed Facebook had changed and I saw some pics on her DD’s page that I hadn’t seen before. Xmas 2008. Christ, that bitch was nothing. NOTHING. WTF did he see in her? She looked old and fat and frumpy and she has such a set mouth it would sour a milk at 100yds. I guess one day I’ll realise it’s been a couple of months since I checked her. But right now I want to stick a fork in her eyes!!!!
EMDR might well work. But I’m spending so much on my alternative therapy (college! ) that I think IC should stay in abeyance for now. I prefer college. The triggers are not part of my everyday life, so I think t hat’s why they do still trigger me. And the fact that fWH is back with that company, which makes me view him with mistrust, esp as he’s back to getting texts and emails at 11pm and at 5.30am. But he makes no attempt to hide them and I just can’t be bothered to check up on him. If he lies…. blah, blah.
D-day anti’s get easier. I also have my own private 9/11. It’s the very day WH first emailed MOW and used the horrors of the day to “forget” to tell me about finding his ex-gf. As if. Anyway, I see him as a pilot flying a plane into our marriage. 9/11. Hmm. And yes, I remember exactly what I was doing when the news broke. And so, I expect, does he.
Things that dont work -
Pissing into the wind
Barbed wire canoes
Shovelling shit up hill
Talking to an NPD wife
She wont leave. Nothing phased her but then again most of her answers were "I dont know".
This woman had such a beautiful heart when I met her now its just a black hole.
Next step is to expose OM & the thing I'm not ready to deal with - Divorce.I know I can be happy without her but my hurdle are my kids.
Today is one of those days when life really sucks.
No time to post.
Just wanted to offer HUGS.
The good news is that since rehab and going to AA I think that FWH is digging into himself to find out why and how he did these terrible things for so long. The other night he told me he had suggested the topic “honesty” for his group meeting. Then he wanted to talk about it with me and we had a painful but good discussion. He agreed that he has not been honest with himself for a long, long time. So, I am hopeful. He is working on himself. He is totally transparent and we are together most of the time. I still need to work more on me and get stronger and take care of myself (codependency issues for both of us) so am going back to my IC. As all of you, I am still devastated by what my spouse has done for so long and really feel that he had (has?) no conscience whatsoever. That’s my only explanation.
Strongish – please keep posting here if you are comfortable doing so. If your husband is reading these posts maybe he will start to understand.
Tryin – my counselor in rehab said that fear is the basis for our problems. It is hard to overcome. At 58 I have the same fears. Although I want to be with my FWH “forever after” if I just find that I can’t because of what he has done to our M then I will leave. There are no time limits. I will also try to find companionship (and sex) with another – even at my age! I know people who have found great happiness and even marriage from a dating service in their 50’s and I won’t be afraid to try – careful, but not afraid. I’m still fun loving and fairly attractive – so is FWH and he is 63. He doesn’t want to be alone either and I’m sure he would find someone soon if we parted. When I can live with him finding someone else I will know I am ready to make a go of it on my own. Now I am taking my time and putting the AA program to work for me – spiritually and in other ways and doing things that make me happy. I feel and hope with all my heart that FWH and I can have a very good marriage but if I just can’t live with him after these terrible betrayals so be it. I’m sure that with your fishing expertise you will soon land another great woman! Happy Labor Day All!
[This message edited by sadallthetime at 5:30 PM, September 5th (Monday)]
DP: I understand the anger towards op, I have had several thoughts of how to make her squirm. I know you know that it is not our best place to focus, but I still enjoy the thoughts at times. I have not fully acted on the thought. I wish I had done the PI, I think once his report is complete you will be able to be able to make some informed decisions. Sorry your day has sucked.
Tryn and Allgood: I like the plan idea. I need to come up with one. The only one I had was to call my best friend and have her talk me out of going into her office, which helped at the time. I really like the self evaluation. I will spend some time thinking about that. It seems to have been a powerful tool for you.
Miracle: I will imagine a wonderful decorating job even though I am not much of a decorator..LOL On a more serious note, I thought my wh was "getting it" but I am discovering that may have been wishful thinking. I am with you that I have to get it in order to be healthy.
UK Girl: Triggers are awful, I have tried to take back places that cause triggers. I have not been that successful. EMDR is interesting, I have never tried it but I did hear a presentation about it. I too check on mow, just to see if she is trying to contact wh via her open wall. She did back in March by singing him a song, blah, she can't sing either!
Honest: Glad you survived the storm. Hugs back. Glad to hear your taking your own power back, 20 seconds compared to the past reaction to triggers is awesome! I am at the bridge of giving up on M, it is in his court for the work.
Sad: Glad you were able to weather the email storm. That must be very hard not to get caught up in all of that. I would have a hard time not emailing back. Life is not over after 50 it is just beginning, as someone approaching 50 I think you have a great outlook on the future. I hope it is as you want with your h but if not I do believe your positive outlook will help you!
Strong: Pm anytime, I usually check in regularly although I don't post much. Your supports are important for you, don't give them up, I like the code idea.
Allgood: Happy to hear you survived the road trip. I remember travelling with little ones all too well. Glad you will have some great memories with them. The seatbelt story cracked me up, that is a good story to tell in the future! Glad he was not hurt though.
Short update on me.. wh claims to have given mow a nc call. He has said this before, so far he has had two calls to her, asking her insurance questions. Ass. I confronted him about it. Then he had a wreck on friday and instead of calling the insurance agent in the office two doors away he called her office, he claims he talked to her coworker, but he has acted kinda weird all weekend. On Saturday he had one short conversation with me, then started saying i was having a bad day, reminds me of the past, blaming me. Well I will confront again or maybe I will just let him fester in it.
Have a good night everyone! Long weekend is over.
DP, 180 and detach. You’ll get there.
Sad, sounds like your H is digging deep and making a good attempt to scrape out all his crap. Honesty! Wow! Treat the man who is after OW with caution. He may have some useful info and OW is obviously shit scared. If it’s true, let’s hope she gets flattened by the process of law and you get some satisfaction watching from the sidelines.
Gotta go. First day back at school. DS isn’t up!!!