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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair - Part 27
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, September 27th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((WYE)))))
Oh honey, this is so hard. I’m relieved that your H has stepped up and been there for you and your DD. Your DD is having to watch her BFF go through the worst time in her life so far. And so young. Life must seem so unfair. Big hugs. be gentle on yourselves and lean on your H.

Ats - what is your wife’s language of love? Yours is physical, followed by ??? And hers is? Are they compatible and is there a way that they could dovetail into a more satisfying relationship? I’m sure you ARE getting there, this is just a slip a little way down the hole. I kinda have some empathy with your wife, I am one of those who beats herself up and feels she isn’t worth much to anyone and that no one can love me b/c I don’t even like, let alone love, myself. I will surround myself with my kids as some sort of protection and knowledge that I have made some sort of contribution to …. something! And then I think, well, they don’t need me anymore, so my value plummets again. fWH has the job to constantly tell me I am okay. And then I compare myself to MOW and off I go again. And I don’t let him help me. Not on any front. I can climb ladders, change lights, unscrew jars, unblock drains, I rarely ask him to do something for me. Of course MOW was the dumsel in distress which made her all the more attractive to his KISA. So, learn to speak each other’s language.

Hi Captiva Yes, it does exist. Found the website for it. Which is another odd thing. It is less than a mile from the Costa Coffee – just the other side of Sainsbury’s. Why meet at the Costa and not at the offices? fWH tells me the premises are big enough for mock-ups of retail designs, so I assume it’s not a grubby little industrial unit, even if it is on a light industrial estate. The D* hotel up our way isn’t in his diary, only my journal. So no time reference. He just seems to have spent an inordinate amount of time in and around the town and city where she lives and works. The company he works for is based in Shakespeare country – so where’s the connection?

He’s home tonight, but not til late. Then has a “conference call” before dinner. We may not get a chance to talk before midnight.

It’s like walking along a coastal path. Fine most of the time, tread carefully some of the time and every now and then – whoops – miss your footing, the path gives way and you take a painful tumble down the cliff face.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, September 27th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If fantasies mean anything she would prefer sex with another woman.
This sounds like insecurity with men and straight sex. That maybe she feels safer with women, but isn’t a lesbian so that’s why it’s a fantasy rather than reality.

As for frequency of sex, as we all know , varies enormously from individual to individual and form couple to couple. There is no “normal”, only what is “normal” for a particular couple. Now, if you have different desires and needs, well that is something to be addressed. But you can’t make someone want sex more (unless it is a hormone thing to be corrected with drugs) or to want sex less (ditto). It has to be a case of compromise so that both partners are happy with how things are.

Sorry Ats, dunno what else to say.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, September 27th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl,

My primary love language is physical touch followed by quality time. As I have been posting, sex is no longer a significant part of our relationship. As for activities, over the last year I haved set up camping trips, bicycle trips, yoga and working out together, all activities she had said she wanted to participate in, but then something always comes up. What annoys me is that she ALWAYS works out to do something with any of the children or her sister when there is an opportunity, but with me it is OK to cancel plans. Yes, we have talked about this and she recognizes she does this.

For FWW the love languages from the book hers are words of affirmation and acts of service. I am doing better at words of affirmation, but is does not come naturally for me. I do not need words of affirmation, I know when I have done well or not. Since dday, and especially since reading 5 Love Languages about a year ago I have woked hard at remembering to tell FWW the good things I feel, or want to feel, about her. This is the real key for her, and what the OM were so good at providing for her that she fell into love with them (and herself).

The acts of service gets complicated. This is very much a love language for FWW, but she does not want anyone to do anything for her, but then she wants to be taken care of

ETA:
UKgirl, we cross posted.

I would understand it we had infrequent sex while dating and then I wanted more, but we had a very ...errr.. rich sex life before we were married. But once we came home from the honeymoon it was as though a switch was thrown and she was not interested in sex other than feeling obligated to service me.

I understand her wanting sex is non-negotiable. She either does or does not.

I understand that it is unlikely that she will ever be able to open up and participate in a two-way emotionally intimate relationship.

I understand that she is probably always going to put the desires of her (and our) kids, and her family ahead of the M.

This is why I think I am done, I just cannot afford the reality of d-ing a wife when she as no (or little) income or benefits with an upside down house we cannot sell. I am really feeling kind of trapped and not sure how to dig myself out in the short term.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 2:06 PM, September 27th (Tuesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, September 27th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl.. might give some thoughts to logging his miles every few days. Anyways, I hope you find what you need.

ATS... Intimacy reflects the way we are involved with each other. It is not measured. It is nurtured and by its nature requires two people. The deepest Intimacy is achieved at the high cost of opening our lives completely to one another. Intimacy means we become vulnerable and transparent enough to allow another to touch us at the deepest levels of our being.

Intimacy results from sharing ourselves with our partner fully and deeply. This means honestly sharing who we are emotionally, intellectually, physically, and spiritually.

Intimacy creates within us a desire to listen and to be heard, to understand and to be understood, to cherish and to be cherished, to value and honor and to be valued and honored, to care for and nurture and to be cared for and nurtured.

When we are in a relationship that provides….

Acceptance
Approval
Encouragement
Attention
Affection
Security
Respect
Appreciation
Comfort
Praise
Support
Affirmation

…. then it can be said that we are enjoying intimacy.

We can also experience "moments" of Intimacy in our relationship. These moment are like an oasis in the desert of our loneliness and feed our hunger for a meaningful companionship with our partner. But, we must strive for more to attain a truly intimate relationship.

An intimate couple experiences enjoyment of life together and a desire to go on living. An intimate couple enjoys life together. Often, they feel a sense of anticipation as they explore life’s surprises together. Intimacy makes life a joy, not a burden. Intimacy is the awe we feel when we stand before someone we love and know that we are loved in return.

INTIMACY – Where does it come from?
Where does it go?

What creates the Desire for Intimacy?
Affection
Trust
Attraction
Respect
Understanding
Sharing
Time together
Time Away

What Destroys Intimacy?
Infidelity
Miscommunication
Lack of trust
Betrayal
Criticize
Silence

What Erodes Intimacy?
Blame
Baggage
Disrespect
Unforegiveness
Time constraints
Infidelity
Children
Married Singles
Unresolved conflicts

What Builds Intimacy?
Forgiveness
Respect
Dialog
Trust
Time
Faith
Baby Sitters
Positive Attitude
Affirmation
Prayer

SO you know, IMO, the man should be the Initiator. Sure, it feels good for a woman to come on to a man too. But the "feminization" of men, tv, too much porn or whatever has made us men beleive otherwise. My wife is not some sex pod, she never initiates in the way that is so forward as a man does. And yes, the older you are, the less sex is desired. But Sex is a very important part of a marriage. Just my opinion.

[This message edited by trynhard at 3:48 PM, September 27th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, September 27th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey allgood, I would expect your H to not be so friendly during this time. It is all part of the pain of end. I have too many friends that have gone through it. It will pass once all is final.

I wish you strenght and composure.

btw, you met any man yet that is interested in you?


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, September 27th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn.

As you get older the less sex is desired!!! At what age does this lack of desire start??

If Allgood has met a man who is not interested in her he must be a blind idiot.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, September 27th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If Allgood has met a man who is not interested in her he must be a blind idiot

I literally laughed out loud at this.

Thank you, thank you, my SI cheerleaders. Lol.

No - haven't met anyone yet. This was very important to me previously, but now, really, I just want it to be me and my kids. I've met a lot of new friends recently that I get together with 1x/month. And now that my s/d is "out of the closet", there are some other girls who are also single that I can hang out with. So, I'm fine with that now.

And, quite frankly, I'm actually afraid what would happen when I start dating. I'm sure the x will make me and/or him miserable. I don't think I'm ready for that level of drama yet.

So, that's that.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, September 27th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood-
Sending some positive thougts your way. Sounds like Mr. Nogood is finally realizing what a deep hole he has dug for himself and he's not a happy camper. Unfortunately, he wants to take out his anger on you. Not acceptable.
I still believe that one day he will 'wake up' and realize what huge mistakes he has made.... the infidelity, his inability to show true remorse afterward, and his unwillingness to do the work needed to save the marriage...he will regret it all...

Honest-
happy to hear that you are sounding so much stronger. Hope everything goes ok with your mom..but, remember...don't get sucked into any craziness... take care of yourself and your kids first.....

Miracle-
I hope that the budget cuts do not derail your educational plans...is there another school that you can go to take the courses?

WYE-
So sorry for your loss.
Glad to hear that your husband is stepping up to the plate and is being a comfort to you.

Ats-
I'm so sorry for what you are going through. I can understand your frustration and why you are feeling trapped. This bad economy is affecting everyone in so many negative ways....
About your wife-she really does sound so troubled to me.
I know that you say that she likes her therapist but... I always think there is no harm in a second opinion, a second point of view.
Sometimes you can get 'stuck' and the therapist is too close to the situation and doesn't see a way out. Maybe a new therapist could take a look at the situation in a new way and see things more clearly?
I agree with Honest that your wife's reactions to physical touch etc. sound like PTSD type reactions.
Even the way you describe her attitude pre-marriage and post marriage. I remember reading about this in articles dealing with female sex addicts. They are most often victims of child sex abuse and then they get a distorted view of sex. And for some reason marital sex suffers while elicit sex is what they crave...and they also talked about female sex addicts going through long periods of self imposed sexual abstinence...because the sex addiction for women is not really about sex.

I did all this reading on the subject right after d-day when I was trying to understand everything about my husband's LTA. And due to my obsessive personality I wanted to find out what made my husband's MOW tick. I often think that your description of your wife reminds me of my husband's MOW.One book that I read was by Charlotte Kasl-'Women, Sex, and Addiction.
Well, anyway ..for what its worth I think your wife needs to look into finding a new therapist-someone that specializes in female sex addiction/ sexual anorexia (which go together at times) as well as adult sex abuse survivors. Not every therapist can handle all of these issues. And of course once therapy begins she should go every week!

Ukgirl- My heart goes out to you. You have been struggling with this 'gut feeling' for quite a while now.You will not be able to reconcile if you believe he is seeing the OW. IMHO you need to find out if it is true or not.
I would not be able to rest unless I did. I would put a GPS in his car and VAR in his car, office etc. (Voice Activated Recorder).I would put a key logger on the computer and even consider paying the money to hire a private investigator.
I went nuts post d-day..turning over every single rock to look underneath it! You would be amazed at the people I called and spoke to... so would the MOW! LOL....
I had to know everything about the LTA and I had to be 100% satisfied that there was no contact before I reconciled.

[This message edited by njgal480 at 8:55 PM, September 27th (Tuesday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 7:09 PM, September 27th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK

I think NJ is right (as usual).

I would also go into full investigation mode.

You can't live like this. It is too unfair. Throw every tech toy at him that you have for a few weeks. Go to every other source you have. Trun over every rock. Not because I think he is necessarily up to it again but for your own peace of mind. If nothing comes up it is probably a false alarm. At least you will then be able to relax.

I think I hate this shit more than the past infidelity or the deception: this not knowing.

I also think this is why they say it takes so long to heal from the infidelity. Part of the problem is the pain and anger but I also think the uncertainty about whether or not they are doing it again is a huge barrier.

BIG HUGS

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, September 27th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

really tired tonite...just wanted to send hugs to all....especially to you (((wye)))

it really sucks that in the midst of all of it you are going through such a tremendous loss...and i am so so happy that your ws is steppin up...


njgal: my school is not affected by funding, i think you got me mixed up with ukgirls classes..all of her classes were cancelled...my first course actually end next week, each course is 60 hours....so 2 of them will end then....more tests for me....yippeee...


honest its good to hear from you, i dont like when you go dark for so long...and its even better that you sound strong....speaking of strong....we have not heard from her in a while....

check in hon if you lurk...i know how hard it is to keep up, and then to post after catching up on all the posts...

and on that tired note...

nite all

((((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
captiva
♀ Member
Member # 15193
Default  Posted: 1:07 AM, September 28th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi UKg,

So.......a theory. And please forgive me, I hate how infidelity now makes my mind work..........He DID meet his business colleague at the firms offices? But maybe he had coffee with MOW beforehand, because it was so convenient, and there was nothing in it, and you were never going to find out.......

Anyway could you verify who he was supposed to be meeting and what time his appointment was? Tough one I know....

Perhaps the D* hotel was the thing to get you off the scent? It seems like it struck something with you for you to write it in your journal.

I don't know but like Laura says, for your own peace of mind then you might want to investigate.

FWIW, fWH may now go underground if he thinks you have rumbled something because he was too disorganised to get rid of the coffee receipt.

Eyes and ears for a while, just to verify?

((((UKg))))


4 years out. We're getting there.......I will never forget the hurt he created by having a LTA with a serial marriage wrecker. I don't think he will forget the hurt either, nor how ashamed he is of his behaviour.....

Posts: 986 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: UK
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 3:21 AM, September 28th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Captiva

Welcome back.

I just had a look at your profile and read your story and some of your old posts.

Hope all is still going Ok for you.

I think it is wonderful when old friends check back in.

Gives us newbies hope.

Today is 16months since dday for me.

Wish I hadn't noticed the date

HUGS all the tribe

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:33 AM, September 28th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Captiva- I read your profile. Just wondering...are you R or did you divorce?
My d-day was also 2007.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 5:46 AM, September 28th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dip.. Here is your stat.

by The Kinsey Institute for Research in Sex, Gender, and Reproduction, Inc

[This message edited by trynhard at 5:47 AM, September 28th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
captiva
♀ Member
Member # 15193
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, September 28th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Laura

Thank you for the welcome back!!

I don't post here very often nowadays, but do pop in from time to time to see how old friends are doing.

I was and I quote "batshit crazy" at 16 months out, I think I had a serious meltdown and thats whe I had my 12 months of intensive IC. It did work in the main too, its just that our marriage is different now, hell. I'm different now!

I read a post this morning from someone whose d-day was 10 years ago, its now just a blip in their marriage - thats what I hope my H's A can be in our marriage...one day.

Have some hugs ((((Laura28
))))


4 years out. We're getting there.......I will never forget the hurt he created by having a LTA with a serial marriage wrecker. I don't think he will forget the hurt either, nor how ashamed he is of his behaviour.....

Posts: 986 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: UK
captiva
♀ Member
Member # 15193
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, September 28th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi NJgal

We are in R, not totally recovered but on the way. D was my first thought when I found out but as my H agreed immediately to my first 4 conditions for R, we started the journey. Long, hard, painful, sometimes wanted to give up entirely. But we continued, and here we are. Not fixed completey, as someone said (think it was UKg) it's like a broken vase thats been glued back together. It still looks like a whole vase, but look carefully and you can see the cracks!!

I guess I'm 90% happy and with what else is going on here, at the moment thats good enough for me!

thank you for asking btw xx

oh - and the whole sorry story and my recovery journey can be found here:

http://phoenix-myinfidelityjourney.blogspot.com/2009/01/beginning.html


4 years out. We're getting there.......I will never forget the hurt he created by having a LTA with a serial marriage wrecker. I don't think he will forget the hurt either, nor how ashamed he is of his behaviour.....

Posts: 986 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: UK
Jayne Doe
♀ Member
Member # 32664
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, September 28th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Captiva - I was just reading some of your blog - lots of great posts, even commented on one :)


Everyday is a blank canvas, and only you hold the brush.
30y M traded in for a POM (pathetic Old Maid 46, 2 kids from different dads. never married)
S 11/11, D final 1/14.

Posts: 1454 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Suburbia, Arizona
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, September 28th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trying nice chart but it relates to frequency of sex ...as Dip said

As you get older the less sex is desired!!! At what age does this lack of desire start??

I dont rate on the chart as I get no sex but my desire for it is no less than what it was when I was 20.


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 4:21 PM, September 28th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn.

I agree with Deep. That chart is about actually having sex not desire.

I did notice that the 4 or more times a week really dropped off big after the 25 birthday. Seems like bull to me. I never did trust those Kinsey people.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, September 28th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I too was thinking that the chart didn't really present all the data. LOL


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
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