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User Topic: Long Term Affair - Part 27
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, December 11th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do believe I've disconnected!

Good for you Nell!


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, December 11th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Greetings All and best wishes for good days during the holiday season and beyond! Last night WW and I hosted a holiday party for DD religous group. 50+ teens socializing at our home. Glad we could do it.

ats

A tense evening last night.

Tension seems to be everywhere. As WW said last night, the day was full of conflict. Ours is still unresolved and runs deep. WW inability to accept responsiblity and my habit of pointing it out. Ugh! I hope you are more successful in dealing with yours.

This is not about you, FWW's A was about her.

Yes, very true. In another emotional discussion last week (I was puching WW out of her comfort zone), WW was struct that she had a "void" within her that the A filled (actually masked). Our MC did say that this void was hers and there was nothing I could have done / do to chage it! Wow, our MC gets it. I should send MC a bill so MC can get EDU credits.

The real quation is why did your WW need excitement, why did she need an OM to feel good, to have fun? And the answer is not because h&c was not exciting, not happy, not fun. The true answer is within her.

Yes. And I can accept whatever the anser is (even that she may not love me). I cannot accept no answer. WW needs to face things and quit avoiding them. Our MC / IC is good at being direct. Not letting WW or I be vague, forcin each of us to be direct.


njgal480

sorry to say but I think you need to look for a new MC.
This one definitely does not understand infidelity

This is our second MC post DDay. The first did not address (or really even acknowledge the impact) of WW A. This was between DDay1 and DDay2 before WW told me the truth. Even WW saw this was not going to work.

This one does not focus on saving M. Insists that is our choice and responsibility. Very true. This MC does help us identify / clarify issues. MC is direct and does not allow either of us to avoid a topic.

During our M, we have seen MC at various times. The most recent for two years around 2007. This turned into "social" betwween WW and MC follwed by discussion of issues with DD. When we got around to our issues, WW was not "comfortable" discussing them and I gave up on the MC.

Our first MC was awful. He wanted to brush everything under the rug
Not every MC/C knows how to deal with the trauma of infidelity.

Our MC started with "addressing" our issues and I have had to steer the MC into dealing with the A first and foremost. Our MC understands the trauma but focuses it on the extreme. Thinking that I just need EMDR to process and accept the A and all will be well. Yes, the EMDR / therapy has helped reduce the stress levels and allow me to focus at work most of the time but it is not the be all end all solution.

Have you asked this MC if he has read "Not Just Friends" by Glass and "Transcending Post Infidelity Stress Disorder"by Ortman.

No, I have not but will add to my own reading list. Thanks for the recommendation.

Its a shame but..yes..we sometimes do have to educate the counselors about the best way to deal with infidelity and trying to reconcile after a LTA.

Yes. And no one is perfect or does it all. I accept my personal responsibility to work through this and the MC is just another tool.

The newest authors also have stopped looking at the spouses of sex addicts as co-dependent.Now they use the trauma model as well in dealing with them.
The book: Your Sexually Addicted Spouse-How Partners Can Cope and Heal by Steffens is also a book that all MC should read

I am confused on this one. WW IC (same as MC) reccommended WW read a book on Sexual Addiction. Reason was WW told IC that she wanted to stop the A several times but could not do so and always came back to it (juding by phone log, this lasted at most 3 days ) WW described the "high" the A gave her. I do not see this as "sexual addiction". Even if WW / IC wants to label it this way, WW was still making the CHOICE to partake in the A daily for over two years.

Your thoughts on SA and addiction in general as you also noted the issue of alcoholism.

Nell
NYE. Cool. Best wihses to you, the boys, and the neighbors for a fabulous time!


We went thru a few counselors before I found our final MC. He's great. (Mr. STBXNell was the one who was not working thru his crap... And he helped *me* immensely. Mr. STBXNell not so much, because he was never invested in getting help, just in being told he was right and in not doing any work.

I don't know where you live, but I'm happy to give you the guy's name via PM if it works.

Yes, MC AND SI has helped *me* too! WW sees IC weekly in addition to MC. My perception is that WW seems afraid to really confron her actions and issues. My concern is that IC does not push this, let's WW lead session, and focuses on peripheral issues.

I live in a big city with lots of choices. I am not sure I will search for the perfect MC and will probably continue to deal with this one until the usefulness is gone completely.


Ellejay
Like the airline steward/ness say “secure you own oxygen mask first and then assist others”. Yes, it is hard to do that when we see others in need. It is good that you recognize this and are able to do so. In my situation, I told my sister about my WW A bc 1) she could provide the 24/7 support that my IC could not AND bc 2) we both support our father and I was / am too traumatized to do so.

I felt like getting hold of the so-called counsellors who come up with this crap and hitting them over the head. OK, there may be things that we can all improve on and address within the marriage but to somehow give the WS an excuse for taking this option is downright irresponsible IMHO and totally unhelpful in the long run.

Ooooh, that would feel so so good. Yeah, my view of Counselors was low to begin with. Where are the success storie? Why can't they give expected outcomes and timelines early? Nothing is measureable and failures are always the patient's fault. No track records to evaluate, one just has to go by got instinct. It is good that there are resources and I am cabable of using them along with the MC/Ic to possibly R.

Thanks to all.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, December 11th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

h&c-

IMHO alot of people misunderstand about SA-they assume that its all about guys in raincoats flashing people as they pass by or...very severe cases.

A good friend of mine ..also a BS... has said that her FWH going to SA has saved her marriage.
Her husband had 2 LTAs (1 yr and the other was 4 yrs) and he had issues with porn.
They R after d-day and one of her demands was zero porn... one day she noticed that he had a teeny tiny slip up..watched something on cable for a few minutes but that was a deal breaker for her and so he went to his first SA meeting. He says that the men that attend are every day people...not these sinister people you would imagine. Most had affairs and were into porn a small minority did the massage parlors etc.

The BS says that due to his attending the meetings he has become much more open about discussing his LTAs, his feelings etc.

I think that it might make people feel better to call it a compulsion as oppposed to an addiction. I do think there is an element of compulsivity when you continue to act out by having an affair even if you say to yourself that you need to end it, this will be the last time, etc.
Its very similar to what an alcoholic says to himself... this will be the last time I go on a drinking binge, it won't happen again, look at the trouble it has cause- hangover, late to work, car accident etc. but then a few days later the alcoholic cannot control himself and has another drink..all the time berating himself about doing it again and promising himself that this drink will be his last.
My husband described his LTA the same way..he said he wanted to end it for years.

That being said... I don't think SA meetings are a comfortable place for female SA. It is overwhelmingly male and there is a difference in why men and women act out.
For women the sex is often about power and control..not even about the sex.

a book about this: Women and Sex Addiction by Charlotte Kasl

[This message edited by njgal480 at 3:50 PM, December 11th (Sunday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, December 12th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal480

Thanks for the input. Yes,compulsivity is one of the signs of addiction including SA.

And I really struggle with understanding "addiction" of any sort beit drugs, alchohol, gambling, shopping, or sex. Free Will. Choice to do, to contiue to do, it feels good and damn anything else. That is my issue.

I don't think SA meetings are a comfortable place for female SA. It is overwhelmingly male and there is a difference in why men and women act out.

Good point.

Women and Sex Addiction by Charlotte Kasl

This may be the book her IC gave her to read though I recall the title as Women, Sex, and Addiction.

Your post gave us another prompt to discuss. Does not belive she is a SA and talked about Sex Addiction vs Addicted to Sex (I will have to read up and discuss with her to understand the nuance). WW does recognize her codependent issues.

Most of all she understands that she needs to do a lot of work for herself and our M.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, December 12th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H&C... Maybe I can help you with this...
I really struggle with understanding "addiction" of any sort


What are you on this chart? Me, I am now about 196 lbs at 5'10" which puts me in the overweight range.

I have addictions to food. Even though I know I should not have eaten that Big Mac last week, I did. I had one of those, “oh well” moments. My struggles with food have been for 7-8 years now. I have gone on diets and move close to 180 lbs., but that was a huge mental challenge ending in my overeating again. Our minds know we should not, but we do it anyway. We risk our live by eating fatty foods, giving in to that thing we know we should not have.

This was my example. Now take something you do, maybe playing golf every week with the guys, cards, sports, or even biting nails. Some addictions are not so harmful, some are. Can you now understand?

BTW.. You are not going to “fix” your W and I doubt she is a SA either. I now know when a spouse has sex outside the M, a the betrayed is deeply scared. All those feelings of “I was not good enough” “too boring” “not big enough” “not romantic enough” on and on…. You are trying to figure out “Why”. I already told you why, but it’s hard to accept. The reason is really one word, pure selfishness. The ultimate selfishness in any committed relationship.

My W said her A, “just happened” too. When we talked about how it began, she said it started with some innocent flirting and progressed little by little until one day they had passion and urges. Then it does become “addiction like.” Addictions are feelings where all you can do is then say, “YES”. Why? It makes you feel good. Just like the big mac going down my gut in the same way. Then they struggle for years with trying to compartmentalize the relationship. They are always having these "what am I doing" moments. They are not good feelings and exactly why you should never have an A.

After a few years in every M relationship, some passions just go away. Sure, you have attractions, but there is nothing like the feelings of something new. It feels good to get a new car, It feels good new furniture, It feels good to have something strange. Your W took advantage of the opportunity for someone “strange.” She allowed her feelings to overpower her mind. So many people just don’t really think about how bad this shit hurts which makes being selfish a little easier. Cheaters also think they are so smart they won’t get caught and go to some pretty big extremes to avoid detection.

Now, you are in grief. OM trespassed on you and stole affections that should have been only for you. Your W had feelings for someone else. It fucking hurts like she has no idea. This is hard bitter pill to swallow especially when you are so conflicted. You are going to be hurt and have hurtful feelings until the day you die. Only years will make the pain less.

What she really needs to do be very loving to you. It seems they can’t because it is never enough. Heck, there isn’t enough she can do for you so early.

If you are going to make it, you need to quit trying to figure her out and make the choice to forgive about now. You need to work on you. It is not going to be easy because you are going to have to battle a few things. You will battle "rug sweeping" vs. "not make her feel guilty." This is why you must make sure you protect all your new boundaries and enforce them without bringing up affair stuff. The A stuff will come up during the process so you pick yourself back up and try again.

Have you even read a book on how to forgive?


[This message edited by trynhard at 4:01 PM, December 12th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
hopeandchange
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Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, December 12th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn

Thanks. I really appreciate the input.

You are not going to “fix” your W

Agree completely. Her choice. Her behaviour. Her void. Hers to fix. I cannot do it.

make the choice to forgive about now.

I made the choice to forgive months ago and wanted to be there by the end of September. Didn't make it but have made a lot of progress. I have read a lot on forgiveness and take the opportunity to read as much as I can on the topic.

You are going to be hurt and have hurtful feelings until the day you die.

I hope not! And I do not think so. I have worked hard on myself and have made the choice (not there yet) to not live with resentment whether D or R. I can focus on the hurt and pain or choose to focus on things I enjoy. And I am starting to do that once again.

Can you now understand?

Maybe I understand but just disagree with the "addiction" principle. Or as Flip Wilson would say "the devil made me do it!:-"

Addiction to me means "I have no control". Yes, we all have habits like biting nails. Yes, there are some very overweight folks. And it is more important to them (CHOICE) ti eat tge food then it is for them to be thinner. Nothing wrong with that as it is their choice. My WW chose to have an A because it was more important to her to @~## OM then to keep her fidelity to me. And continuing the A was what was important to her. It is that simple.

I love my W, have told her, and she knows it. She is working on herself, I am working on myself, and we are working on our M. However, it goes, I hope she fixes herself and I know I will be ok.

h&C


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, December 12th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryin- guess we'll have to agree to disagree....
but IMHO I think a BS needs to try to understand everything about the LTA and that includes the WS motivations, actions etc.
I didn't have to figure myself out... I knew what I was after d-day....totally devastated, traumatized, gutted.

And if I was the kind of person where infidelity was an automatic dealbreaker for me..then I guess I wouldn't need to try to figure my WH out.
But...my FWH surprised me after d-day. I thought all affairs were exit affairs. That the WS wanted out of the marriage. Meanwhile my FWH was so remorseful and was begging and pleading for me to reconsider and save the marriage.
So...I had to make an educated decision as to what to do. I had to try to decide if its was better for me to divorce or to try reconciling.
And the only way that I could make that decision was if it was an informed decision. I needed to know details about the affair because I needed to know what I was reconciling from!
I needed to know what, when, where, why......
I needed to know what my FWH was thinking then and what he was thinking now.

I needed all of that information before I felt safe enough to make the decision to reconcile.
It took me 6 months.

I think reconciling too quickly and too easily, without any consequences for the WS, without any demands for change , brushing the infidelity under the rug to move forward is a big mistake.
I see it on SI all the time... people who try to protect the WS and themselves and they end up with a WS that is a repeat offender.
Thats what happened with my FWH's MOW. She had an affair 30 yrs ago (it was a 6 yr LTA with a married co-worker). Her husband took her back without anyone doing the work and what happened? this woman continued having affairs for the next 30 yrs..culminating in a 5 yr LTA with a married co-worker!-my husband!

so..I do think that knowledge is power.

now about SA. I think that if you feel more comfortable using the term addictive behavior, or compulsive behavior...so be it.
But, there is an element of this in most LTAs.
The WS knows its worng, often say they wanted to end the LTA many times, but could not...or went back to the behavior again and again.
Kind of like any other addiction... they promise themselves that this will be their last drink etc. and then they fall off the wagon and are so disappointed in themselves and their lack of willpower that they have to self medicate again and repeat the behavior.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:45 PM, December 12th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oh but Njgal... I am not saying H&C needs to figure himself out.. he needs to work on himself... meaning the "battle of forgiveness."

I think she is telling him everything he needs to know and trying to point those out as it compares to my W.

It is hard if not impossible to forgive someone after this.

1) Make the choice to forgive
2) Make the deliberate and irrevocable choice not to tell anyone what they did.
3) Be pleasant to them should you be around them
4) If conversation ensues, say that which would set them free from guilt
5) Let them feel good about themselves
6) Protect them from their greatest fears
7) Keep it up today, tomorrow, this year and next
8) Pray for them


See #4 & #5.. those are very hard to do.

I think your OWH failed to keep good boundaries too. For me, I have good boundaries that say... I AM NOT going to be in a bad relationship. IMO, you cannot be in a good relationship when your partner is having an affair. Your partner usually does things that are just not loving.

I look at my W... I cannot tell you how many times during her A I asked her... "Why don't you want me any more?" I really don't feel that today at all.

Today, She grabs my hands when we walk, touches me, kisses me when we greet, talks more with me, on and on...

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:46 PM, December 12th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
njgal480
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Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, December 12th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

yes..that battle to find forgiveness....
I'm getting there.
For me understanding the hows and whys help me to be more forgiving.

the one thing on your list that I did not do .... and do not necessarily agree with also...is the idea of keeping the LTA a big secret.
I told everyone about the LTA.
I was tired of covering for him.I did that with his alcoholism...no more.
I believe the truth will set you free....and once again it's a natural consequence for their behavior.

when people saw me a total wreck post d-day I was not going to lie and I also felt that it was about time that the MOW should have some consequences for her 30 yrs of pursuing married co-workers and wrecking marriages.

As a matter of fact...after this final LTA her BH finally decided to divorce her. I stayed in touch with him for a few years post d-day. Do you know that one year post d-day when he tried to drop of some Xmas gifts for his children he was barred from the house! Why? The MOW had told all of the family memebers that the reason for the divorce was that he had an affair!
Do you believe the nerve of that woman?
and her husband was still trying to protect everyone...including the MOW and had not told them the reason for the divorce.
After he told me this story I told him that he needed to tell everyone the truth. That it was ridiculous for him to have a strained relationship with his children to protect his WW's image.
he finally did tell his adult children the truth about the situation.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
0115
♀ Member
Member # 31740
Default  Posted: 12:02 AM, December 13th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for this information. The addictiveness of FWH's affair is what I struggle with now too. I have the "why" and I'm working on the "how". It's just mind boggling to me how he can say "I wanted it to end, I prayed for miracles, I wanted her to find someone". Really??? Just STOP!! I realize it's not that easy...day by day.
Hi and hugs to all...I'm still lurking here all the time


BS (me) 49
FWH 49 newbeg2011
Married 29 years
Very Long LTA
DD 01/15/11-6/30/11
The hard work is done...let the healing begin.

Posts: 997 | Registered: Apr 2011
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:13 AM, December 13th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey 0115... Have you made the choice to R?My W couldn’t stop 0115. It is just like you could stop loving your H when you found out he was in that LTA. Could you stop? NO. Something needs to happen for it to stop. For example, in college, I was a pot smoker. When I got my job and we were randomly drug tested, my job was so important, I quit. But over the years sense, I was placed in positions where I did smoke again. I risked my job, my high paying salary. It’s nutz.. Why would I do this? Well, at that very moment in time, it felt good. My own selfishness took over to have that moment in time that feels good. I would love to smoke on today. I don’t because I have 2 in college and I am not going to hurt them. I think our spouses had these kinds of feeling close to mine of selfishness of a different degree. After they see us hurt, they really know the pain and trauma of the broken promise or betrayal. Some do, some don’t.

njgal480...You make a good point.. I 100% agree being exposed is something that needs to happen for someone to change too. We cannot be scared of exposure. Complete exposure is the first step to recovering from some sort of addiction as you well know from AA. For me, about every friend knows, All her family knows, my kids, my kids friends, all her coworkers… everyone except my side of the family knows about my W’s A. And I believe my mom and dad “think” it happened. The exposure gave my W feelings of great guilt and shame, and still does. My W’s language of love is affirmation so you can only imagine the pain she felt from everyone knowing. My W suffered psychological trauma because I found her twice assuming the fetal position.

Something I have a hard time understanding is knowing what it feels like to deeply hurt another human? Can you place yourself in someone else’s shoes? Imagine you mentally hurting your spouse to the point they cannot stop crying, for 90 days straight, going over and over why you betrayed them, over and over, and…. Over. As I look at my whole life, I have never hurt anyone even close to that. My boundary, I won’t.

When I say work on yourself… Before dday, I didn’t have boundaries. I allowed myself to accept W to make all those calls, texts. I allowed myself to be ok with my W to stay after work to have drinks. I allowed myself to accept have her boss as a best friend. Before dday, I did not have a boundary about the way I needed to be loved. I have boundaries today that my love is hugging me, touching me, having sex with me, and romancing me. I have a boundaries on her criticizing me.

But what I learned at Retrouvaille was how to fairly enforce my boundary. I do it by sharing my own feelings when a boundary is crossed. Never accusing, never demanding, never controlling… just feelings. It then becomes up to my W to want to be my W. As for enforcing, I always had courage in life. It got knocked out of me for a year and it’s funny that this fear did save my M. Today, I have the courage to make a change and I will leave my W. I always have the courage to communicate when my boundaries are being crossed or about to be crossed. The consequences of some boundaries will be D.

I now take the position that sometimes a M deserves a second chance. Every offender needs a chance to change. If they don't, then move on to a healthy postion.

H&C… You can hope all you want.

You are going to be hurt and have hurtful feelings until the day you die.

You are going to have a memory of this that will last forever. You are going to have this and it is going to have hurtful feelings associated with this memory. Feelings are feelings and our brains just pop feelings in and out. No hope will stop it. I think what you get good at is deflecting, controlling, redirecting, repelling the feelings that came with this memory. I can easily do all those things I mentioned, but I can also take that memory and feel the hurt too, if I want to. This is now part of me and it will be a part of you. It makes me who I am today and it will make you the person you are today. I think poster Dipstick still has those same feelings as me and his dday was back in late 1980’s. When you have a mental trauma in your life, it becomes part of your personality. Your future actions are in part made based on this trauma.

It also is part of life itself to have mental trauma. It is rare to get through life without some sort of trauma. It is part of life as is death.

Peace to all today…

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:27 AM, December 13th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, December 13th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

good morning all

been really busy, been really at a loss for words...my sich is still a daily grind having days that are seemingly never ending....there are a few bright spots here and there but not many as pfm seems to inject himself into things i wish he wouldn't...he continues to do stupid well

i wish i had more to offer, i think about you all often and of course send many many hugs


(((((tribe)))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
0115
♀ Member
Member # 31740
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, December 13th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yep, after many months of sitting high on my fence (in a lounge chair because it was taking so long) I finally came down on the R side. What was I watching from that vantage point of not recommitting? I saw my fWH TT me, gaslight me, confess to me and beg me to stay. Then, I saw him start to work out everyday, go to IC and CODA meetings, help around the house and he tried little things to "win me back". Then he found his "why". He broke open like a smashed watermelon (what an analogy). He confessed over and over again, he cried uncontrollably, he told me whatever makes me happy do it, leave or stay but he'll spend a lifetime trying to make it up to me. Then I tested positive for ANOTHER STD. More remorse, HATRED for the ow. Today the man I see from my fence seat is not the man I have known...ever really. I came down. We have so much work, but now that I see who I'm coming down for I feel like it's really time.

My heart breaks as I read this forum daily. LTA's are so horrific. I still have so much to get through and over but there is my update.

Please know that I always pray for you guys, oldies and newbies alike.

ETA Mine was the stupid 12 year LTA, rugswept from '99 and brought underground. OW # 2 in 2010 as well. I took that off my tag.
0115

[This message edited by 0115 at 8:51 AM, December 13th (Tuesday)]


BS (me) 49
FWH 49 newbeg2011
Married 29 years
Very Long LTA
DD 01/15/11-6/30/11
The hard work is done...let the healing begin.

Posts: 997 | Registered: Apr 2011
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, December 13th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal480 and ats

I enjoyed your point / counterpoint exchange. I always learn from others. Combined with my own experience / knowledge it helps me to adapt and grow as an individual. Many thanks.

Now my two cents. “Character is what you do when you are lone and no one is watching” I saw this as a teen and since that day, it has been my complete definition of character. Mine is not perfect but is not seriously flawed either

Exposure, I agree! Some post DDay examples of conversations with WW.
Me: During the A, did you tell your friend “Mary”
WW: No! She would never speak to me again.
Me: I told my sister because I needed her support and needed to tell her that I was disengaged form our father (who we both support)
WW: I will never be able to face your sister again.

So yes, some of us need help strengthening our character. Exposure of our serious flaws can help healing and growth.

And it can benefit the BS too!

WW parents came to visit.
WW: I wanted to tell my mom but did not because she has a “big mouth” and others do not need to know my business.
Me: So they can just think I was an ass when I was upset and terse when you did not do as I asked (wake me up when you get up. The days were filled with activities with her parents and we had no other time alone)

I believe it is the WS that should tell close family / friends. How they have hurt their BS and are trying to help them heal (if Ring) or better understanding (if Ding). This can be a very powerful message to the WS and help them face their issues and what they have done. Concealing the truth to protect them can give the WS the notion that “yes, it was terrible but my BS survived, forgave me, and stayed with me and then not really examining themselves.

You are going to have a memory of this that will last forever. You are going to have this and it is going to have hurtful feelings associated with this memory.

Yes, I will remember WW A forever. And I will remember all the pain it has caused. But that does not mean that I will feeel the pain forever.

Yes, life is full of trauma and I have had my share. And at least one of those would seem far worse to those that have not experienced the betrayal of a spouse's A. I still remember this trauma, think about it occassionally, and know the sorrow. Yet, it is just another event in my day as (in)significant as spilling a galss of water.

And yes the A (and other traumas) is part of who I am today. I have changed.

Life is good. Life is full of adventure and opportunities. I intend to enjoy all of it that I can.

No one deserves to experience the pain of a spouse's betrayal. We all should have joy and happiness. Joy and happiness is ours to pursue. Best wishes to all in your personal pursuit.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, December 13th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hopeandchange.. I think you just go ahead expect that you will feel it. I can say at 38 months post dday, I can still feel it... like I say, when I try to feel it. Does that make sense?

My SIL's first H commited suicide in front of her. She told me that she hurt for about 4-5 years. She still can feel some pain. She cried and we cried together on a beach about a year after my dday. I expect this trauma to be about the same.

I guess it might depend on the person and what they have already gone through. If you grew up being raped, being shit on, unfairly treated, then you kinda already know life is not fair. Pain is part of life. You level of acceptance is greater. Of course you change... I somehow believe my innocence is gone in life. If something happens to me again that makes me cry for 90 days in a row, I might accept quicker. I suppose?

Poster Honest has helped me with this at times. She has had some things happen in her life pretty tramatic. She says it still hurts but less and less as time goes on.

Dipstick can explain how he feels it too being decades out.

I do think time does heal.

For me, I know I still feel hurt at times and I can deal with it and still love my W. Mainly because she is making a very stong effort to love me.

I am under no illusions. At anytime that could change. That too is a given in life. Things Change.

Acceptance is the last part of grief. It took me over 2 years to start to reach it. It's slow in coming.

What you have going for you is a postive attitude. NEVER LOSE IT... I think I am a postive person too. I always find the best in people.

I think your W and my W are much alike. Her ego is large and anything that makes her "look bad" brings her feelings she hates. Shame, embarrassment, mortification, humiliation, disgrace and those kinds of feelings. My W was the baby in a family with 3 brothers. She was given what she wanted without really earning it and told how great she was without warrent. Those make her feel great and the opposite makes her feel pain. When she messed up, she hid it or never really paid for it. Her mom would allow her to skip school. that kinda stuff.. This FOO stuff carries over into adulthood.

Me, I grew up given nothing. I worked for everything. I was always the one who tried to please my parents to get attention. My parents rewared me when I did something good. When I messed up, I mostly confessed and paid the Consequences. Thus, failures have come but I pick myself up and "TRYHARDER".. LOL... See my namesake? LOL... But I was never good at hiding either. My family was strict and I feared the outcome. Our FOO were both different which is the reason we are attracted to each other too.

[This message edited by trynhard at 9:54 AM, December 13th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, December 13th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats.. thanks. I understand.

Me, I had no FOO issues as a child. I learned the value of hard work, respect, service, and family from my father. I learned the capacity to love from my mother. My siblings were great. We shared good times and supported each other.

WW. I would not think there are any FOO issues but I did not liver her child hood. I know her family well, she did have some challenges along the way, and was a very strong and self reliant person when I met her.

I always find the best in people.

I always try and find the things that are broken and fix them.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
0115
♀ Member
Member # 31740
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, December 13th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hopeandchange

Imo, everyone has FOO issues...not the same extent of others but when 2 people come together they bring them. I never thought I had any either...the deeper I go I see my reactions to his issues were MY issues. Stay strong, keep working, be the better person and forgive, share everything (my half of my inheritance when he was banging someone else), be the good girl, til death to us part (no one divorced in our family). That's what I did in 1999. That's what I had learned to do. Well, that didn't work so well. Jmho.

Also, I am healing easier without the whole world knowing about this mess. Six people in our lives including counselors and priests know about this. No family. My fWH said this is MY choice...if I want them to know, done, if not, then no. It was MY choice. I know there's arguments both ways on this. Not telling everyone worked well for me.

Just giving you other opinions...it's amazing to me how affairs can be so alike and yet so different.

0115


BS (me) 49
FWH 49 newbeg2011
Married 29 years
Very Long LTA
DD 01/15/11-6/30/11
The hard work is done...let the healing begin.

Posts: 997 | Registered: Apr 2011
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, December 13th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey everyone.

I haven't had time to catch up on everything, have barely even been online in days. My brother was here with his family. Got to love on some babies, it's good for the soul.

Everything with fWH has been good, even if I do occasionally trigger, I've been working on my reactions to it. I hate the damn holidays.

Things with mom aren't any better though, in fact I caught her talking to the scammer again last week, had the cops come over and sit her down that this is fraud. It's exhausting.

Trying real hard to hold it together today, when really all I want to do is crawl in bed and cry for a good 48 hours.


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, December 13th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Back by popular demand, here is Dip! Well tryn did sort of demand I return and he is popular.

I think this A shit is just going to be in my mind in some shape or form forever. I just do not really see how a person can forget any kind of severe trauma. Way before D-day #1 I had a friend who was shot and killed. I saw him shortly after. How do you forget that? In a span of three years I lost both my parents and had D-day #1. I was in my 20s but all of that stuff is still with me. You just do not forget these things. As tryn said you deflect, redirect and repell the hurt that comes with these things. Most of my A stuff happened back in the stone age. Not much info about how to handle all this. I have said before that I handled the A like I handled death. It was the only way I knew. It is not the proper way but it was the best I could come up with.

I really think that in the future most here will be in a better place than I am concerning their views/thoughts about the A because you have had a better shot at getting things done the right way. I think I would be in a better place if I would have had a place like SI to help guide me years ago. I have learned a few things here that have helped me and better than that, I have had a place to talk to others about all this. Silence is not always golden.

Tryn make a good point about staying positive. It helps if you do that. We all get caught up in the anger and think about the negative. Trauma and betrayal does that to you. I have a hard time with the attitude. My W does care about me and when she is good she is very good. Then her BPD gets in the way and she is not so good. When her attitude gets bad, mine gets bad. I am getting better at ignoring her bad attitude. It helps defuse the situation. Sometimes!

Hopeandchange. I think that addiction is easier to understand if you get that what ever you are addicted to replaces your free will. I smoked for many years. I wanted to stop, to exercise my free will and do the right thing. The addiction kind of kicked poor old free will's ass and put him in the closet. Free will was hanging in there like a old suit. When I did quit there was a epic battle between free will and addiction. It was a fight to the death and free will WON! It could have gone either way though.

miracle.

I just have to say this. You at a loss for words!? I have to say this too. Even if you only have a few words, we are glad to hear them.

That goes for everybody else.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 3:30 AM, December 14th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

Just checking in quickly.

First a confession

I have been lying to you all.

I have been very busy at work but have not been posting much because I have been feeling really bad not because I've been too busy. I have been reading but not posting because I just didn't know what to say except that I feel like shit.

I also have felt unable to offer anything to any of you which also makes me feel bad because you have all been here for me so much and I feel selfish for not being able to at least respond to your posts.

I can't explain it. I'm just feeling so down.

Question:

I have been considering asking FWH to join. He is VERY computer illiterate and cannot type to save his life. I doubt he would ever find me here and by the time he does we will be in part 28.

Do you think it is a good idea? I have avoided it because I wanted the privacy I have to chat to you all but feel I've reached some sort of dead end.

You all know my story, he knows my story so I now feel I don't need to "protect" myself.

I suppose I am thinking that maybe he is becoming a little complacent and that if he reads on here he may come back to realising that my recovery is going to take a LONG time.

A VERY LONG time.

I don't think I have anything to lose.

What do you think?

HUGS

Laura



Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

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