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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 6
Betrayed333
♀ Member
Member # 33660
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, November 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We always have talked about our relationship. Everytime I bring it up now he just seems like he doesn't know what to say and can't apologize enough for what he has done. Regarding his father, I wrote in my original post about this. I found out while they were away for work, he works with his father they roomed together. His father knew he was cheating on me and didn't seem to care. When they got back and he told me what happened on his own free will he said the next day his dad told him they ,might be travelling back to the place where the affair had happened. He gave him a wink and a nod and said yeah you should come back with us. His father cheated on his mother while travelling and it ultimately ended their relationship. My WS says that he loves his dad and respects him, but he says that he is crossing a line right now and he is going to tell him to back off becvause we are trying to work it out.

Posts: 82 | Registered: Oct 2011
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, November 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay. So, basically you need two things. (1) WH needs to bring up affair topics. (2) WH needs to tell his father that WH will no longer travel with father.

Is that correct?

Did you tell him that you want him to initiate discussions?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Betrayed333
♀ Member
Member # 33660
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, November 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, he definetely needs to bring it up. I didn't want to constantly be bringing it up out of fear of pushing him away by nagging, but it is getting to a point now where it has been days and he doesn't even ask how I am feeling. Or if I need anything. Or if I want to talk. As far as the second part goes, the travelling is kind of a must. It is our only source of income and his father is one of the higher ups so very good potential on him moving up the ladder. He justs wants to basically tell him to back off. That him trying to get him to go out and cheat is not helping anyone and that he is trying to R with me and have a good life together. When all first happened and came to light, he was doing anything I asked. I wanted him to call her and end it and he did so on speaker phone with me right there.He has been totally transparent with everything and answered every question I have had. Like I said, he seemed like he really wanted to talk to his father. Like he knows how upset I am that the grandfather of my child would try and ruin our family like this. But it seems like he is avoiding doing it now for some reason when before he had no problem doing it. I just don't know if he understands the severity of how I'm feeling on this topic.

Posts: 82 | Registered: Oct 2011
Mom-of-4
♀ Member
Member # 29927
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, November 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Few Questions for WH:

1. Is it really truly possible to love your wife and have a meaningless A with OW?

2. The OW in our case was a sociopath of sorts. She was jealous of me and my happy life so she went after my H to "see if she could get him to cheat". She was a serial cheater and swinger. She also was ready to end her marriage. She sent him numerous emails/naked photos over a 1 month period to his work- her husband was my WH's boss. When she outed the A my WH never had any contact again- I didn't have to ask. His reaction was like someone realizing a hot stove shouldn't be touched. He had sex with her twice and professes that it was "uninteresting and disgusting". Have any of you encountered this kind of situation? I do maintain that my WH should have had enough integrity to NEVER engage in emails/text/conversations with another woman period! It was preventable- yet he CHOSE to ruin his life and mine.

3. My WH caught his Mother having an affair with OM when he was 17. He told his father- it was very traumatic. The BS of his mother's Affair partner was notified which led to harassing phone calls etc. They all swept the A under the rug and acted like it never happened. THe rationale- my WH had a brother 7 years younger- no one wanted him to find out. After much IC he went from thinking it had no impact on him having an affair to it contributing to the A in that he often was what he calls "emotionally detached" at points in his life- including our married life. I have always known this- I have tried to help him deal with the effects of his mother's A and forgive her, yet I always thought catching his mother and all the repercussions would have led him to NEVER have an affair. Did any of you WH with cheating parents find that the family history contributed to your affair?

Thank you for your responses

I'm 2 years out from Dday and although i have more good days- my life has never been the same- and not in a good way.


Me- BS 38
WH-39 -5 month PA- outed when I was 28 weeks pregnant with baby #4
Married-13 yrs
Children- 5 children under the age of 10
OW- his boss' wife, a "friend"

*Winners never cheat and cheaters never win*


Posts: 170 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: The South
the fsc
♂ Member
Member # 23028
Cool  Posted: 5:00 PM, November 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mo4...

1. Yes, although no affair is meaningless. Your H was getting something out of it, even if it was only an ego stroking. We WS's all must use compartmentalization to do what we did...at least those who chose to reconcile. We turn off our real lives to live a fantasy...then turn them back on when we need to. If we didn't love our spouses, then we wouldn't have decided to reconcile.

2. Many of us become disgusted with ourselves after the A, and project that disgust on our AP's...sometimes excessively. Mine was and still is a Skank. But she became skankier after I made the decision to have an affair with her and ruin my marriage. I'm a man...and so is your H. To say the sex sucked is just a way of minimizing it to protect our spouses. Its sex, for crying out loud. I can say that through my efforts to try and impress her, and her me that the sex was certainly not as good as it is with my wife. We know each others likes and dislikes, and we are comfortable with each other, and not afraid to give directions or correct things to get the best "finish". That is probably a more accurate statement for WS's who had 'terrible sex's with the AP.

3. I'm not experienced with this, but your H needs to be careful not to blame his affair on FOO issues. He needs to know and believe that his affair was HIS decision...HIS choice to make.

Hope this helps.


WH - (45) Me
BS - (44) Her (Redrock)

D Day 3/23/2008
Easter


Posts: 165 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Michigan
the fsc
♂ Member
Member # 23028
Cool  Posted: 5:07 PM, November 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(double post)

[This message edited by the fsc at 6:30 PM, November 3rd (Thursday)]


WH - (45) Me
BS - (44) Her (Redrock)

D Day 3/23/2008
Easter


Posts: 165 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Michigan
the fsc
♂ Member
Member # 23028
Cool  Posted: 5:07 PM, November 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(triple post)

[This message edited by the fsc at 6:30 PM, November 3rd (Thursday)]


WH - (45) Me
BS - (44) Her (Redrock)

D Day 3/23/2008
Easter


Posts: 165 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Michigan
the fsc
♂ Member
Member # 23028
Cool  Posted: 5:07 PM, November 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(quadruple post)

[This message edited by the fsc at 6:31 PM, November 3rd (Thursday)]


WH - (45) Me
BS - (44) Her (Redrock)

D Day 3/23/2008
Easter


Posts: 165 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Michigan
the fsc
♂ Member
Member # 23028
Cool  Posted: 5:07 PM, November 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(yes, I'm an idiot...#5)

[This message edited by the fsc at 6:31 PM, November 3rd (Thursday)]


WH - (45) Me
BS - (44) Her (Redrock)

D Day 3/23/2008
Easter


Posts: 165 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Michigan
the fsc
♂ Member
Member # 23028
Cool  Posted: 5:09 PM, November 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

curse this mobile phone and poor reception...#6!!!!

[This message edited by the fsc at 6:32 PM, November 3rd (Thursday)]


WH - (45) Me
BS - (44) Her (Redrock)

D Day 3/23/2008
Easter


Posts: 165 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Michigan
why_and_how
♀ Member
Member # 33120
Default  Posted: 5:54 PM, November 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to all of the WSs who give such honest answers to us BSs.

I realize this is specific to my situation, but did anyone experience being on the fence between R/D despite having NC with the AP?

In other words, my WS went NC immediately, the next day after DDay. I'm 99% sure of this. If the A went underground, it's so far down that they are moles. WS claims to have no pining or withdrawal from OW#4 (it was a two night stand followed by 6 week long distance EA). Yet, he has been on the fence between divorce and reconciliation for the past 10 months. Our marriage was not bad. It had normal problems. I am committed to R. He says he loves me and losing me would be the worst thing to happen to him. Yet he still thinks about divorce every day. He loves me and is fully committed to R one day, can't seem to stand me the next day.

Did anyone have a similar experience deciding between R and D when the BS fully wanted R and the AP was firmly out of the picture? Or am I delusional about possible breaking of NC.


Dignity maintained.

Posts: 87 | Registered: Aug 2011
suckstobeme
♀ Member
Member # 30853
Default  Posted: 7:24 PM, November 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, I gotta ask. I know it's probably pointless, but curiosity is getting the best of me.

We are recently D. I essentially pulled a hard 180/NC on ex as soon as I found out about OW 10 months ago. He never fessed up, gave me the ILYBNILWY speech, told me he wanted a "trial separation", blah, blah, blah, only to have it blow up and me find out about OW after he moved out.
He was very cruel, ignored me and my pain, never wanted to discuss his true feelings and overall acted like I didn't even matter.


So, he left me no choice but to file. Total NC was completely warranted and the only thing that has helped me even start to heal. I am polite and never attack him at this point. It's not worth it. I email or text when it has to do with the kids. Otherwise, I've gone far underground. He sees the kids regularly, but I haven't seen him in months.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure he's still with OW, who has proven to be an awful person. Drama queen, functionally illiterate, horrible mother, hated by many, many people for her ugliness inside, etc., etc. I don't look for any information about him or them. Whatever I find out seems to be by accident.

An old colleague who I have not seen in several years asked me to coffee the other day and I went. He told me that he saw ex recently and talked to him for about 15 minutes. He said he was "flat" and had virtually no emotion about him He said that ex looked sort of vacant and that he was concerned when he left the conversation. Others have mentioned the same thing to me over the last several months. That he looks like a deer in the headlights, that he looks vacant, bloated and like he's very distracted.

Well, here comes the question. I actually talked to ex on the phone for the first time in a very long time the other day. He did not sound vacant and sad to me. He sort of sounded like his old self.

Also, and here's the very interesting part: he actually acknowledged during that conversation that he knows the kids miss him all the time. Before that phone call, he would act almost insulted or pissed off if I ever mentioned that the kids missed him. He would say, "they'll adjust" or "I've never heard them say that." As if I was saying it just throw guilt at him for his choices.

Anyway, I'm wondering if his mood on the phone with me, esp in light of what I've been told, and his acknowledgment that his kids miss him is a small sign that he's starting to see that he destroyed his family and made some very bad decisions. He's got a ton of problems and I don't think I would ever want him back even if that was an option, but because of the awful way that it ended and his refusal to ever talk about anything once he made up his mind to leave, I'm now curious.


BW - me
ExWH - "that one"
D - 2011
You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.
Hard as it may be, try to never give the OP any of your power or head space.

Posts: 2506 | Registered: Jan 2011
the fsc
♂ Member
Member # 23028
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, November 4th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

W-a-H,

I realize this is specific to my situation, but did anyone experience being on the fence between R/D despite having NC with the AP?

Quite the contrary, I think there are MANY that have had this situation. There had to be underlying problems that your H thought were bad enough to decide on having an A. We convince ourselves that due to these "problems", we deserve to have an A. It helps us to compartmentalize our lives, and justify our selfish needs. The more we realize as WS's that the A is STRICTLY about us, the less the OW means. It then stands to reason that it is quite possible to quit OW cold turkey when the true problem lies within. I had absolutely not intention to live the dream with OW after D-day...but at the same time I didn't know right away that I wanted to R, either. I felt like being alone. Alternating love and anger I think is quite common after D-day...as we try to cope with the shame and guilt, as well as our contribution to whatever problems already existed in the marriage.

Bottom line is that it takes time to heal for both parties. Many on this site will tell you (I advocate as well) to always be vigilant and wary if you suspect anything. I wouldn't stop being suspicious. This was just to give you some perspective from someone who was also initially on-the-fence. It is possible to quit OW's without the emotional hangover. But dealing with our selfishness, shame, destruction, humiliation, hurt, and all the other damage we did sometimes can make it seem otherwise.


WH - (45) Me
BS - (44) Her (Redrock)

D Day 3/23/2008
Easter


Posts: 165 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Michigan
helpemegetoverit
♀ Member
Member # 30242
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, November 4th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Momof4

1. Is it really truly possible to love your wife and have a meaningless A with OW?

I don't think any affair is meaningless. I think a BS would love to think 'oh, he just did it for the sex, nothing more' and move forward, but we all know that not to be true. Your WH needs to figure out what he was getting from the affair and why he 'needed' that. This may lead him to the 'why' he had an affair.


2. The OW in our case was a sociopath of sorts. She was jealous of me and my happy life so she went after my H to "see if she could get him to cheat". She was a serial cheater and swinger. She also was ready to end her marriage. She sent him numerous emails/naked photos over a 1 month period to his work- her husband was my WH's boss. When she outed the A my WH never had any contact again- I didn't have to ask. His reaction was like someone realizing a hot stove shouldn't be touched. He had sex with her twice and professes that it was "uninteresting and disgusting". Have any of you encountered this kind of situation? I do maintain that my WH should have had enough integrity to NEVER engage in emails/text/conversations with another woman period! It was preventable- yet he CHOSE to ruin his life and mine.

I think that, from what I've seen on these boards, it's much more likely that your WH is trying to minimize the affair and the sex involved. Sure, in retrospect he may be able to see that the sex was bad, and maybe the feelings he had about himself are surrounding that, but I don't buy it when WS tout that the sex was bad. More important is why he would allow someone to send him sexual pictures of themselves and why he continued to let it happen and then sleep with her. How did THAT make him feel?


3. My WH caught his Mother having an affair with OM when he was 17. He told his father- it was very traumatic. The BS of his mother's Affair partner was notified which led to harassing phone calls etc. They all swept the A under the rug and acted like it never happened. THe rationale- my WH had a brother 7 years younger- no one wanted him to find out. After much IC he went from thinking it had no impact on him having an affair to it contributing to the A in that he often was what he calls "emotionally detached" at points in his life- including our married life. I have always known this- I have tried to help him deal with the effects of his mother's A and forgive her, yet I always thought catching his mother and all the repercussions would have led him to NEVER have an affair. Did any of you WH with cheating parents find that the family history contributed to your affair?

I think FOO issues can be at play in the 'why' someone had an affair. It's something I would suggest he discuss further in his IC. If it made him 'emotionally detached', what is he doing to prevent that feeling in the future?


Me: WW
Him: BH
Intuition is not a gift, but a skill based in self esteem.

Posts: 872 | Registered: Nov 2010
helpemegetoverit
♀ Member
Member # 30242
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, November 4th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm just going to say 'ditto' because I could not have said it better myself:

W-a-H,
I realize this is specific to my situation, but did anyone experience being on the fence between R/D despite having NC with the AP?
Quite the contrary, I think there are MANY that have had this situation. There had to be underlying problems that your H thought were bad enough to decide on having an A. We convince ourselves that due to these "problems", we deserve to have an A. It helps us to compartmentalize our lives, and justify our selfish needs. The more we realize as WS's that the A is STRICTLY about us, the less the OW means. It then stands to reason that it is quite possible to quit OW cold turkey when the true problem lies within. I had absolutely not intention to live the dream with OW after D-day...but at the same time I didn't know right away that I wanted to R, either. I felt like being alone. Alternating love and anger I think is quite common after D-day...as we try to cope with the shame and guilt, as well as our contribution to whatever problems already existed in the marriage.

Bottom line is that it takes time to heal for both parties. Many on this site will tell you (I advocate as well) to always be vigilant and wary if you suspect anything. I wouldn't stop being suspicious. This was just to give you some perspective from someone who was also initially on-the-fence. It is possible to quit OW's without the emotional hangover. But dealing with our selfishness, shame, destruction, humiliation, hurt, and all the other damage we did sometimes can make it seem otherwise.


Me: WW
Him: BH
Intuition is not a gift, but a skill based in self esteem.

Posts: 872 | Registered: Nov 2010
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, November 4th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

why_and_how -

I realize this is specific to my situation, but did anyone experience being on the fence between R/D despite having NC with the AP?

This is not unique. I was wavering for a few months. I just thought that I was so messed up that nothing could fix me and that everyone (H, me, the kids) was better off if we were separated.

Or am I delusional about possible breaking of NC.

I have no idea about that. But I do know that if he does not keep "mental NC", i.e., he reminisces, fantasizes, wonders, about the OW, the virtual affair can stay alive for a very long time.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, November 4th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

suckstobeme -

He told me that he saw ex recently and talked to him for about 15 minutes. He said he was "flat" and had virtually no emotion about him He said that ex looked sort of vacant and that he was concerned when he left the conversation. Others have mentioned the same thing to me over the last several months. That he looks like a deer in the headlights, that he looks vacant, bloated and like he's very distracted.

I would think people are probably being nice to you and telling you what they think will help you.


Anyway, I'm wondering if his mood on the phone with me, esp in light of what I've been told, and his acknowledgment that his kids miss him is a small sign that he's starting to see that he destroyed his family and made some very bad decisions.

Thoughts inform speech, which informs actions. Until he shows you something in action, it does not matter what he says or thinks. If you just want the satisfaction of knowing that he knows he destroyed his family, trust me, he knew all along. Anger always covers up something, and in his case, it likely covered up his fear and sadness.

But what does it matter if he does not do anything about it? You can be sure he already knew how much he damage he did.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
PlainsGirl29
♀ Member
Member # 33520
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, November 6th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did you want your bs to have an RA? Why? My WS keeps telling me I should have an RA. To minimize his A or is he taunting me because he knows I won't?

Posts: 1146 | Registered: Oct 2011
lost and lonely
♀ Member
Member # 17205
Default  Posted: 7:32 PM, November 6th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Was there ever a time during the A where you truly in your heart felt like you weren't doing anything wrong?


Me: 36
WxH: 37
Together 16yrs, married 12yrs (we were 16 and 17 when we met...high school sweethearts)
2 sons
Separated 6/09, Divorced 2/11

Posts: 706 | Registered: Nov 2007
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, November 7th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PlainsGirl -

Did you want your bs to have an RA? Why?

Yes, I wanted my H to have a RA. So that I would not have to be on a lower moral status than him for the rest of our lives together. So that I would not have to feel that I never have a voice again. If I complain that he only takes the garbage out once a year, well, I had the affair. If I need him to come home early and he works late without telling me, well, I had the affair.

To be fair, he has never pulled the "affair card" on me. But he could if he wanted to.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
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