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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 6
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, December 20th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honestly, I wish infidelity was a punishable crime in this country. Maybe if they had to spend a few yrs in prison, the WS would think twice about destroying the ones they claim to love and who love them the most.

Isn't this what he's doing? Spending time in prison? As far as thinking twice, prison has never been much of a deterrent. Take a look at the prison population numbers.

Many people don't believe they would get caught and I'm sure many don't.

Legislating morality doesn't work. People getting healthy does and while your husband may deserve the exile he's experiencing your kids don't. I hope they can get help to understand the only people they need to trust are themselves.

Once people truly do that the freedom is incredible. They're able to view others in a different light being able to separate the actions from the person.

That doesn't mean that they'll condone what he's done, but it can give them the ability to also see what he's doing.

People will disappoint and hurt us our entire lives. Learning you can trust yourself 100% and "situationally" trust others is a valuable thing.

Your husband is learning something valuable too. If you treat people like they're expendable they'll tend to start viewing you that way as well.

As long as they don't act expendable they're ahead of the game. So often I've seen when someone is devalued by another they lose their value to themselves and start viewing themselves as worthless and valueless. What a tragedy.

It was actually my BS (I thought he was at the time) that abandoned our children for a bit but he's working hard at rebuilding and while the two youngest don't remember my oldest is very watchful of his dad. He's in counseling and doing really well.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
foundoutlater
♂ Member
Member # 32900
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, December 20th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From a BS point of view - I agree it should not be criminal. Civil is another story. I am a romantic, but I also view the marriage as a contract. This should be legally binding and have real consequences. In California it does not have financial consequences. When a spouse cheats, all rights to alimony should be gone. Not sure about the division of assets but it seems there should be punitive compensation as well. Now this opens a can of worms, because love honor and cherish are not restricted to the sex organs. How do you deal with this same issue when there is no infidelity, but one spouse just is not nice? Just saying it seems so unfair and I wish it was different, even though I don’t see how it could be workable.


Your beliefs don’t make you a better person, your behavior does.

Posts: 1063 | Registered: Jul 2011
isadora1985
♀ Member
Member # 29097
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, December 20th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

uncertainone...

Honestly, I wish infidelity was a punishable crime in this country. Maybe if they had to spend a few yrs in prison, the WS would think twice about destroying the ones they claim to love and who love them the most.

Isn't this what he's doing? Spending time in prison? As far as thinking twice, prison has never been much of a deterrent. Take a look at the prison population numbers.

Many people don't believe they would get caught and I'm sure many don't.


What prison is he spending time in? The only one I can possibly see is in his own mind. Otherwise, he has his wife, his children (they do love him, just without trust), his home, his things, his nice new job, a better income, etc... Actually he has it better than before the a, because he is now employed and making a decent salary, he has a new place to live (not the old trailer we were stuck in), we are no longer "homeless" and on food stamps, and for the most part he still has his family intact despite his efforts to destroy it.

As for the population in the prisons, I said that I was aware the people would continue to commit crimes. I never said they wouldn't. But it would be MORE of a deterrent than what we have now. Which is basically NOTHING for infidelity.

The OW in my case still has her M to her forgiving, loving BS, she still has her children, her home, her job and the prestige her job comes with, and the adoration of her students, the praise and admiration of her collegues and employer as well as her fellow Christians and church members, etc... Edited to add: I wonder how long this would last if they (employer/collegues/students/church members/family) could see the nasty, filthy emails, IM's and chats she exchanged with my FWH? If they could see the nasty, naked, very sexual pics of her that she willingly sent to my FWH? Which will never happen because I would never lower myself to her level long enough to send them.

So, what prison is she in for fucking MY H? I see no prison because she has no conscience that would allow her to be in one, especially in her own selfish mind.

Isa

[This message edited by isadora1985 at 1:33 PM, December 20th (Tuesday)]


BS, 44
FWH, 52
married 26 years, together 27
3 DS (21, 16, 11)
MOW, whore who thinks she is a "Lady"...LMAO at this!
2 yr EA turned to 1-2 month PA(I think)
D-day, May 2009 (EA revealed)
D-day2, Oct. 12, 2009 (PA revealed)
NC since Ma

Posts: 455 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: MO
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 1:43 PM, December 20th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Isa...

This thread is not for BS's to vent on. If you have a specific question, then please ask it...respectfully.

Otherwise please go vent on General.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192099 | Registered: May 2002
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 1:53 PM, December 20th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

foundoutlater...

Please do not answer on behalf of the BS's. This is a Q&A thread, we ask that you respect the format of this thread.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192099 | Registered: May 2002
PanicAttack53
♂ Member
Member # 34195
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, December 20th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Man, I'm so scared to ask another question on this forum after my screw up last time, but I really need some advice on this.

FYI, Just for background, I'm only a little over 4 weeks out from d-day on a 3 year LTA. NC sent & no other contact of any kind since 11/29.

My WS is flip-flopping all over the board on a daily basis. One day she seems really remorseful and the next ambiguous. I realize that she has her own demons she's dealing with but this is driving me nuts. I'm trying hard to do the 180 so I don't really want to react to much to this flip-flopping.

Today was really hard though because she sent me an email that I'd like to share part of, as it will give you more insight on what's going on. Here it is:
"I know you're in a bad place right now so that's why I'm sending this in an email. There is just something I need to say.

You have got to stop taking my feelings into consideration all the time. I'm the one that caused you all the pain and suffering and panic attacks and your feeling/thoughts come first and foremost. I don't want to be excused for anything because I'm sick. I brought all of this on and I hate myself for it. It's not going to go away for some time and I have to live with it. Seeing you go through what you are leaves me so helpless. You mean the world to me and again I'm so very sorry you are going through this. Please know that I really do care deeply for you!"

Yesterday, it was the complete opposite, almost to the point of indifference.

Sorry for the long post but I guess my question here is: Is this normal behavior from a WS in the beginning, I mean 4 weeks after d-day?

Please help me, I think I'm losing it!


Me-BH Her-XWW | B/ 60 | D final on 10/1/13 I'm Lovin' life again!
Rest of the story really doesn't matter any more.
“Realize deeply that the present moment is all you have.” ― Eckhart Tolle

Posts: 868 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Midwest
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, December 20th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PanicAttack53...

I sent you a PM


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192099 | Registered: May 2002
PanicAttack53
♂ Member
Member # 34195
Default  Posted: 6:23 PM, December 20th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Deeply. Answered.


Me-BH Her-XWW | B/ 60 | D final on 10/1/13 I'm Lovin' life again!
Rest of the story really doesn't matter any more.
“Realize deeply that the present moment is all you have.” ― Eckhart Tolle

Posts: 868 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Midwest
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 6:46 AM, December 21st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Panic,

It is still early. You and your WW need to feel comfortable not making any big decisions right now. She will likely be all over the place for some time. But that last email seems okay IMO. Yes, it has some parts in it that make it sound like she is trying to out-do your feelings again, but at the same time she is trying to tell you, and herself, that your feelings are more important. It is just very confusing when you look at it more closely.

The only comparison I have in my situation is that my BW tends to defend me. I'll come home from work, or periodically have to deal with an issue with my brother or my folks, and my BW will react more strongly than me, defending me and letting me know that she thinks the world is nuts too. For some reason, especially over the past few years, this has really irritated me. She is defending me, after what I did to her, she is defending me.

Rather than let my anger/irritation build about this issue, I talked with my BW about it. Turns out that she is showing that she cares for me and wants to let me know that she supports me (when it is appropriate) in these situations. Not sure if this is a male perspective/female perspective thing, but, as a man, it bugged me that my BW was defending me, when, in retrospect, I could handle the situation if I would just grow a set and address the issue/offender head on. Along those same lines, maybe as a female, your WW doesn't want to be taken care of, sort of like a gender role thing, because she is the one who is supposed to take care of the family in that way.

So, if email communication works for you and her, then use that for now. Talk honestly with her about why you do what you do. Ask her to be honest with you about why she does what she does. It doesn't even have to be an A conversation. Work on some of those other issues/patterns in your M that you guys have never talked about, but that are tools to how you both are coping with the current situation because of the A. They are two separate issues.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6054 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 6:58 AM, December 21st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

gonogo1,

Like Song pointed out, the anxiety should be telling you something.

As a WH, I don't go out to lunch for personal reasons without letting my BW know. And I especially wouldn't go out to lunch with a woman without my BW knowing, even if it is strictly work-related.

I would think at this point, sticking with the S/D agreement is the way you need to go, for yourself. Many couples get back together after S/D. In a way, it will be the ultimate test for him to show how serious he is about all of this.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6054 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
25yearslater
♀ Member
Member # 32806
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, December 27th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I haven't posted in a while ~ since 1 year DDay antiversary (November). Well, I had another DDay since then. Found out that WH has broken NC with MOW (she now lives in another state so it has been an EA with emails)and an EA with a different OW. He quickly sent NC emails to both (I was copied on both). The 1st MOW did respond with her usually "I will miss our friendship..." and 2nd OW wished him the best (he did throw her under the bus rather quickly). Needless to say, at that point, I was/am done, emotionally spent and drained and not much fight for us left. He is still fighting for our marriage but I am a nervous wreck. I did do a lot of things wrong the first time ~ I worked hard on R, I made changes that I thought needed to be made, I went to IC, and really I bent over backwards to "help" him see the mistakes that he was making. It didn't work.

I am wondering if any WS have taken so long to "figure" things out and for R to actually work?


me: 50 yrs old BW
him: 50 yrs old WH
Together: 33 years
Married: 28 years (?)
2 teenagers that we love dearly!
DDay: November 2010
DDay #2: July 30, 2011 found out restarted EA with same MOW (ended before I found out)
DDay #3 & #4: 11/26/11
D

Posts: 115 | Registered: Jul 2011
teammom
♀ New Member
Member # 32014
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, December 28th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

recently had a conversation with wh...i told him my gut was telling me was still in contact with "just friend" in june I confronted him that my gut was screaming that they were having an affair...he swore up and down that it was nothing physical..i told him I didnt believe him..silence..over time when I ask...silence...this time he admitted to general conversations with her because they are just friends and he doesnt think he should have to choose...I said by not choosing he is saying she is more important. silence....yesterday for the second time I said I cannot understand how you rationalize that you should not have to choose...what ever angle I try to see this situation it alwasy comes back to my mind that while you say you love me ...u just dont love me enough to let go of her...silence! grrrr what do I need to do/say to get past the silence? is this normal??


Me 39
Wh 41
2 awesome boys and the bonus girl

Posts: 18 | Registered: Apr 2011
Hopin2Heal
♀ Member
Member # 34275
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, December 28th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need some help from a WS. I want to be sensitive to my husband to help him help me, but I'm not sure how to go about it.

I'm having trouble getting my husband to answer my questions. He evades, laughs, changes the subject, and finally after I'm at the point of hysterics he says a little bit then clams back up. He doesn't want to talk about it, he says the best way to get past it is to never think about it again. I disagree. A lot.
What is the best way to start the conversation? How do I get him to open up?

He has had several affairs, has the statute of limitations run out on the past ones? Is it unfair of me to bring up anyone but the latest one?

I sent him articles from here and marriage builders but he won't read them. He doesn't like to read, it's true, but he CAN and HAS. He says he doesn't need to read about affairs because he understands he takes things too far and won't anymore. Should I take that at face value or press him?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.



Posts: 182 | Registered: Dec 2011
Hopin2Heal
♀ Member
Member # 34275
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, December 28th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I forgot one.

The OW says she's pregnant and is going to sue for child support. Her story is not that believable, but there is that chance. He wants to work out a deal away from the courts and I disagree with that for a lot of obvious reasons. He is even going so far as to say he wants to go there (without me) and swab the baby and do his own DNA test. Red Flag, right? Why would he want that?



Posts: 182 | Registered: Dec 2011
Sandcrab
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Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, December 28th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

teammom

they are just friends and he doesnt think he should have to choose

Has he read "Not" Just Friends by Shirley Glass. This might clear some things up for him.


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
stillwaiting1963
♂ New Member
Member # 34039
Frustrated  Posted: 12:47 AM, December 29th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for WS's. My WW has been expressing serious anger towards me. Primarily in texts and voicemails. We don't talk that often, mainly because I'm trying to 180, but also because I don't feel like getting chewed out on the phone!

WW moved out on November 18th. Our son and daughter live at home with me. Son is 17 and daughter 14. Son has refused to go over to WW apartment and most often will not return WW texts. This bothers WW immensely. Daughter will go over maybe once a week to visit WW, but that's about it. WW will stop by home a couple times a week for a few minutes.

My question is the extreme anger she exhibits towards me. She hates the fact that her brothers get along great with me and side with me, and most recently that they invited me to their family Christmas, which we've all done for the past 25 years.

Perhaps it's the holidays that got to her. Perhaps the kids mostly ignoring her. Perhaps my brother-in-laws getting along with me. We've had a couple fights since DD, which has been 5 months ago. But since about three weeks ago, it seems like it doesn't take much for her to exhibit extreme anger towards me.

My question for WS's is what triggered anger towards your BS, and more importantly, why would you be very angry towards your BS? It just seems like some dynamics have changed in the recent past.

At first I was thinking WW was having problems with AP, but as far as I know, WW is still seeing AP. Are there issues with the AP that are causing my WW to vent more anger towards me?

Or it may just be everything with the holidays. Gut instinct tells me it's something else.

Thanks!


Me: BH (48)
Her: WW (44)
M: 22 years
DD: 7/28/11
Separated 11/18/11

Posts: 14 | Registered: Nov 2011
stillwaiting1963
♂ New Member
Member # 34039
Default  Posted: 12:51 AM, December 29th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, I also wanted to mention that WW will spew anger and incorrect information back at me (blaming me for stuff she clearly is the cause of). But then the next day or so, she will act like nothing happened and perhaps even be cordial or at least non-confrontational about an issue she just yelled at me about a day or so earlier?

My BILs swear that WW is BP.


Me: BH (48)
Her: WW (44)
M: 22 years
DD: 7/28/11
Separated 11/18/11

Posts: 14 | Registered: Nov 2011
leftoolate
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Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, December 29th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Hopin2heal,
What is the best way to start the conversation? How do I get him to open up?
Since you can hardly force him to have an adult conversation with you, perhaps you can tell him your side of the story (again, presumably). It fine for him to have an opinion on what it takes to heal. You disagree, and that's okay. And since he is the one that hurt you, I'd say he can set his opinion aside and help you heal on your terms. Of course you have equal rights to be heard in this marriage, and to work out how to deal with this mess will take a concerted effort. And he needs to start making amends that actually work for the wife he betrayed. He can stop thinking about it later, when he's done the work.

He has had several affairs, has the statute of limitations run out on the past ones? Is it unfair of me to bring up anyone but the latest one?
No statute, just limited memory space, probably. If you need the information, he needs to do his absolute best to give it to you. Quite fair. Difficult for him, though. But fair enough.

He says he doesn't need to read about affairs because he understands he takes things too far and won't anymore. Should I take that at face value or press him?
Interesting. I must admit that I hardly read about affairs these days, except on SI. In the first year, I did, though. Affairs, communication, self help, philosophy, lots and lots of knowledge and ideas that I really needed to get myself together. It would be a good thing if he already knows what he needs to grow, saves a lot of time. But I wouldn't take it at face value. Has he actually been 'growing', getting emotionally whole and mentally healthy? How does he know? How do you know? I guess you could ask him to explain to you how he's doing things differently now, what happened to his original internal motivators for the affairs and how that's different now, how and when will he prevent new affairs? And if his explanations make good, solid sense to you, perhaps you'll know what to look for and how to start trusting him again.

He has cheated on you. Repeatedly. To insist on doing things his way is ludicrous. He owes you.

No clue on the pregnancy thing, other than to stay away until birth, leave all communication to an attorney, and get a paternity test done.

Good luck, Hopin2heal.

~L.

edited for spelling

[This message edited by leftoolate at 2:00 PM, December 29th (Thursday)]


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
Card
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Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, December 30th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hopin2Heal,

Print out Joseph's Letter and tell him you need him to read it, or you can read it to him....

You can find it in the healing library under the articles tab.


As to whether you can take him at face value.... Of course not, he's a con artist (wayward) and a known liar....


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
Card
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Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, December 30th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

stillwaiting1963,

ALL active waywards display whats known as BP personalities.

As for talking, texting, and interacting with an active wayward.... You need to expect anger, stupidity, and very dark behavior....


I would recommend you read Dr. Harley's book, Surviving An Affair. I prefer his PlanA/PlanB approach over the 180 your currently using.... Worth reading about IMO.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
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