My WH is bipolar, rcently diagnosed, and we're separated. I'm hoping to convince any BP WSs to maybe start a thread? WH has turned away from support from his whole family, and I just don't know what may be going on inside his head. PM me, please, anything. I really need the help. (Sorry, not quite a question)
Would a BP WS please help me to understand my WH a little better?
During my Confrontation my WS said the most hateful things to me. To summarize he basically told me he was draw to this person because she was everything I am not. He accused me of trapping him in this marriage and of course blamed me for the whole A. He was stupid enough to leave a huge paper trail, that is how I caught him. Hotel receipt, ATM
withdrawals for 1200 at a strip club,
a photo of her green card, naked
pictures of her. I just can't get over
the feeling that he wanted me to catch him. When I told one of his coworkers, she had a look of horror on her face and said,"oh my god. he
was bragging at our golf outing
about he and his brother hanging out
with strippers. I'm so sorry, I had no
idea." He took AP (who was
traveling with male friend) to a cubs
game with one of the groomsmen
from our wedding. The person he
was with the day he and I met. He
swears friend had no idea what was
He knows I was cheated on by an ex-bf and I walked away without
looking back. He knew this was a
deal breaker (obviously not since we are in R, but I'm not fully in yet).
I am guilty of letting him overstep my boundaries in this marriage. I think
when he came back to ask if I would
work on it, he thought I'd say no or I would continue to be his doormat. I finally got pissed 1 week after d-day
when I snuck to his hotel at 3am (he
was here in our guest bedroom with
our puking son, because I had our
bed ridden daughter, whom had
broken her leg in 3 places on d-day,
in our bed). I flipped up his
computer and found a full page letter
he had sent her the previous day.
He told her that I had so many
problems and he was sorry he
dragged her into this. He shared
information with her about me that
he had no right to share. He painted
me crazy and himself the devout
husband and father. (this was after
we agreed NC.
I had played it cool up to that point, but then I lost it! I came home,
picked my son up out of the bed, put
him upstairs and proceeded to rage at him for 2 hours. I did tell him I was no longer protecting his reputation, I was going to tell everyone(I did, now regret that), I
was getting half (and maybe more). He had never seen me that way and he looked scared. He never went back to the hotel again after that day. He said he was never leaving again.
I guess my question is. I think this
was supposed to be an exit affair.
Does it sound like one to you? I
think he thought I'd go quietly and preserve his reputation (he is very well known in our community), but when he realized I look like a kitten but fight like a bulldog, it wasn't going to go the way he planned. I guess what I'm saying is I feel like all the things I said and did may have
made him feel cornered. I have since calmly asked if he wants out. he keeps saying no. I do not want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me, but I'm not sure he'd say it.
After affair he was diagnosed with sexual compulsivity (though i've known that for years with the porn and dating sites).
So did any of you WS plan on your affair as an exit. If so, why did you feel you couldn't tell your BS that you wanted out? If it ended up not being an exit but you stayed do you wish
your spouse would have ended it?
For this reason I am still riding the fence. How foolish I would feel to give my heart to someone who didn't want it.
[This message edited by get-a-brain at 9:08 AM, April 28th (Saturday)]
So, your WH is stuck. Two IC's and both of them are allowing him to stay stuck. I've been in that spot. Maybe it is time for a new IC, or two. Your WH has to direct the IC a bit. Early on, figuring out the "why" is a major hurdle to get over. He may have bits and pieces of the why, but without a clear focus of what direction he wants to go, he will keep wallowing with his IC's. So, he has to direct the IC's by letting them know where he wants to go now. Since he has such a history with his two IC's, it might make more sense for him to maybe take a break, then find a different one who he can go into and start out with a fresh perspective. He could tell the new IC what has happened and what he has figured out, but also tell the new IC that he needs to put all that together and find a way to recommit to his M and to you.
It just seems he is keeping up a barrier by continuing to re-hash the A. He is comfortable where he is at to some degree. The scary thing for him may be that next step, which is finally putting it behind him and working on himself and a new M. Time for a new IC IMO.
I think your IC is right. But I'd also throw in fear as a reason. He's afraid of taking responsibility for whatever reason.
In response to his "can't turn back time" comment, that is true, but he can come back and get you to help you out of the devastation he has created. Those times when he cries, those moments when he lets his emotions show...those are the times when he could see you there, but his emotions scare him and prevent him from seeing anything beyond his little personal sphere.
I know your situation is a bit rough with being a SAHM, and you have presented papers to him. What else have you done to draw your line in the sand. Have you tried the 180, detaching, changing the locks, separation papers.
Right now he is blaming you and OW for his problems. He doesn't see that he is he common denominator. Realizing and accepting that he is the one who fucked everything up are two different things. I realized what I had done after a certain amount of time. It has taken a much longer time to accept responsibility for it.
It sounds like your WH was pretty typical as far as wayward behavior. Just not a lot of surprises there IMO. And your behavior after d-day is normal too. You did what you did, and that is what fit who you are and the situation you found yourself in.
All of the excuses and accusations he said regarding you and your M are pretty much bullshit. Sure, there were likely some problems, but most M's have some problems. They are magnified quite a bit post d-day. They are exaggerated during the A in an effort by the WS to make sense of what they are doing, feeling, and experiencing. It often doesn't make any sense to the WS once they realize what they are doing, so they adjust their view sometime to make it all make sense. That all changes on d-day and the WS ends up fighting with everything they have to minimize what they've done and their responsibility for it.
Exit A or not, doesn't really matter. BTW, I wouldn't buy the exit A explanation in your situation. I thought like your WH, that my BW would just sort of see the logic that we weren't meant to be together, that things were circling the drain for us. Why should we put any effort into working on anything. It hadn't gotten us anywhere after 14 years.
Turns out, I was the only one with that opinion of the state of our M. Our deal came down to some major communication issues, on both our parts. But, when it came down to it, I was the one who stopped communicating altogether. Blamed my BW for that, then had an EA.
I wanted my BW to end it. I wanted to end it but didn't because of my own fears. But then I realized that if it ended, I would just carry that forward with me my whole life. I didn't want to be that person.
It's just going to take a while for your WH to figure everything out. He probably doesn't want to leave. That is probably very true. But to stay means he will have to do some work he has never done before. It will mean facing issues he may not even realize are there, or, that he knows are there on some level, but he has put things in place to not have to deal with it for so long, that he can't even remember what those things are/were.
I think there is always a chance. But you, the BS who has known him and lived with him for so long, are the only one who can make that decision. You will then have to make the decision as to whether you are willing to wait for him. Many BS's do wait. Sometimes they wait and then realize they made the wrong choice for them.
You are at a point where you need to make the decision for yourself, and your WH will have to do the work on himself.
Four months out and I think my H is still a tad foggy. It scares me. It seems like such a long time...
This entire thread is filled with really valuable information including both the questions you asked.
Please take the time to read this thread so that our generous WS's don't have to continue to repeat themselves. (unless they want to )
[This message edited by Deeply Scared at 10:15 AM, April 30th (Monday)]
"I'm happily indifferent to the ones who have consistently been wrong" ~kd lang~
What I would like to know from the WS is if they ended the A even though they did not want to and still went on to a successful R?
My WH is still in a "fog" but not as deep as immediately after D-Day. We have been separated for several months now. He told me last week that he did not want to end the A. He is a classic fence-sitter and cake-eater. I know I have allowed that. Now he said that he might end it.
After months of not talking except for DS and finances. I decided to start up some kind of dialogue with WH. We need to be able to better communicate for DS and when/if we find ourselves in D. We talked about going through mediation and will have to talk to be successful in that. During those talks, Wh told me that he does love me. Is not happy. Misses his family. But also some "foggy" WS talk too. He told me that he felt that we were beginning to reconnect during these talks.
I have been getting my ducks in a row and finally trying to find the strength to do what I need to do for me and DS, no matter what path he chooses. I want to continue to heal and hope that he can catch up.
So, am I once again setting myself up for heartache hoping that if he does end it, even if it is not something he REALLY wants to do?
I was is your situation many times with my XWH. He held me hostage on hope b/c he would tell me all the things I wanted to hear but didn"t want to end A. We D and he still is with AP although he is "not happy and things are f---ed up".
Because you were able to minimize, justify and blame once, what makes you feel that you won't fall back into that in the future?
Did your BS go through questioning if they even loved you at all during the marriage? Did they question weather this relationship was even good for them? H and I married because I was pregnant and I guess I wanted to live in the illusion that he did love me. After his A, I really am not sure that I ever really loved him. He's never been emotionally available and when I tried to address my dissatisfaction, I was stonewalled. I made the choice to be here and try and love him the last 13 years, but I really am questioning if you can love someone who gives you nothing in return. Everything was always surface level. Can you rebuild something that was never there?
I am not trying to be offensive, but I've always been of the mindset, once a cheater always a cheater. Did your BS feel that way? If so, how did you help them change their view of this?
I hate the innocence that has been lost in the M. I hate that I feel like I am married to someone who needs a babysitter because he can't make good choices. I hate that I now have to tell him, he can no longer do this or that. I feel like I'm being cast in the role of parent. Do you feel like you resent your spouse for "taking away your freedom?"
Which brings me to:
After D-day WS was talking about how it should be the right of every human to have freedom. He had more freedom than any spouse I know. I was essentially a single parent with the added bonus of financial support. WH was always on a trip, hunting, biking, boating, rafting. Did you at any point after d-day claim you never had any freedom? If so, why did you feel that way?
I have read that WS never really end up hating AP. I dont think I can live with thinking WH is wondering about her, feeling sorry for her or has fond memories of their time together. I know people say you can love more than 1 person at a time, but I'm just not willing to accept that. It may be immature but I don't want to share my spouses affections with anyone else. I think I'm entitled to feeling special in my marriage, and wondering if I'm being compared does not make me feel special.
How can you justify not on some level hating someone who would help you destroy your marriage? This is not implying your affair partner is an all bad person. I'm tired of people pulling out the black and white thinking excuse, that is not what im doing. I know this other person is broken. As sick as it sounds I do have an ounce of compassion for her, but she is responsible for her actions to. I do have the ability to hate and pity her at the same time. But I think a BS pitty is more for brokeness and not for the actual person, if that makes sense. It's a fact that the AP participated in destroying the heart of your loved one, and if you can allow yourself to not see that person as being cruel and ill intentioned, that in itself is is sadistic.
[This message edited by get-a-brain at 10:33 PM, April 30th (Monday)]
In terms of being happy....No, I was not happy with my BH during my A (when I was in the fog). But that is because I was justifying my A by telling myself that I was no longer in love, my BH didn't give me what I needed, and I wasn't attracted to him anymore. I actually made myself unhappy with him so that I could be "okay" with having the A. I feel awful for doing this, it was cruel. I really hurt my BH with my words, before he even knew about the A.
But in reality I WAS happy with my BH prior to the A. I could be happy with him and still cheat because the A WASN'T ABOUT HIM. It wasn't his fault. It was because I was broken, selfish, lost. When I look back now I really was happy with my H. I did what I did because I WAS UNHAPPY WITH ME. Just prior to the A I was unhappy with myself, was extremely depressed and didn't know how to cope. I acted out in the worst way. I think also, the few months after Dday really put a WS's life in perspective and you realize the pain you have caused and how the little things you didn't like before don't really matter anymore. All that matters is your love for the BS and you realize how happy they make you.
Hope this helps.
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom" Anais Nin
This is a tough one bc I can relate. By asking myself the same question, I've concluded that I had an excellent compartmentization skills. I had to have. How could someone in their right mind look into his loving eyes knowing I was deceiving him. I was a weak person. After ending 1 affair I found myself searching for another high. The fog and endorphins of the affair was like a drug to me. Sex had always been an issue during our marriage yet during the affair the sex falsely made that part of our marriage 'better'. I say that with trepidation bc BH would not have felt that way if you had know what was going on. Lies beget lies. Deceit begets deceit. Brain chemicals are strong and the weak cave in.
I went against my own seemingly strong moral code.
I believe that if I found SI after my first affair, I wouldn't have had the second one. I never thought the word boundaries applied to me. It was having the affairs come into the light of day that forced me to look at myself. All the things about my marriage and myself I was avoiding. Our mc calls it a conflict-avoidance affair.
I would never ever say that the affair made our marriage better but I will say that is better in spite of it. Fortunately, my husband loved me so much he wasn't going to "kick me to the curb" as he put it. He made me feel safe to open up to him (and myself) in a way like never before. He was also very strong about it being over if I had the slightest slip up ever again.
Hope this helps.
yes, I was happy with my husband. Very happy and full of pride that he was mine. This will sound very vague as there are many underlying things I still cannot explain, but I had needs that he could not fulfill. It finally took losing him to open my eyes; then I could see that my needs were completely unhealthy, and that the men whom I chose to fill them were only able to do it by virtue of their being crippled, dysfunctional. I was almost worshipful of my husband's strength and confidence, but they also filled me with feelings of being unworthy and doubtful of the permanence of his love. I would often try to convince myself that he had chosen me for reasons that were not love. I have come to realize that I was always fearful that he would find someone more deserving, more appealing, and I pushed the fears away by taking men who were even more insecure than myself.
I was able to soothe my conscience in that I could tell myself that my husband was happy in our marriage, and that what he did not know, would not hurt him. And in darker moments of guilt, I would justify to myself with the thought that he was destined to leave me anyway, because he would realize that he was too good for me.
[This message edited by threw it away at 5:11 AM, May 1st (Tuesday)]
dday 1 - 12/17/2011
dday 2 - 1/26/2012 (my past multiple affairs revealed)
I have kicked him out and made it clear that there is no talk of R unless he ends his affair. Now, though, I've made it clear that he has larger issues to deal with (things that have come to light since dday) and he needs to attend IC. Also, he needs to own his shit in all this.
I do not initiate contact unless it concerns the kids or money (although I do slip once in awhile when he goads me extra hard).
Generally, I 'm trying to get on with life and carry on without him. I have no idea how this will play out or where it will end. I'm not even sure what I want anymore. It's been nearly 6 months and I am exhausted by it.
I know, from what I've read, that the fog or whatever can carry on for a long time. I also know he may never come out of it. I know that I miss him and love him but I also know that I am no longer willing to carry much of the load to R. He has had opportunities to sort things out but has not taken them. His standard line is 'he's done'. And it would appear he probably is, just can't quite take that final step.
Not sure what to do other than focus on teh future, make sure the kids are ok and find a damn job.
Right now he will send something about the kids, then add a line about his plans for the evening or something like that. he's still seeing the young girl at work. I guess I want to know if he's trying to fence sit...using me as a back up plan. I'm pretty dark on him and the therapist says he is clinging still. I seriously am starting to think he's just fucking with me.