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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 6
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, July 8th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NowWhat106,

I get your question. BS and WS alike share similar issues with being selfish, FOO, stress, liking praise, etc. So what was it at a deeper level that allowed the WS to make a choice the BS didn't?

When you read the many posts on SI, not just the Wayward forum, but in R, General, and others, there is often a mention of how the WS was a good person with morals and integrity. We, the WS, were committed to our spouse and family. Many of us are religious and are honorable and loyal. After an A starts, or after d-day, the fog clears, whatever, the WS is often as confused as the BS when they realize how far they have gone against everything they thought was right about themselves.

For my own situation, I didn't not do it because I had detached from my BW. I believed she didn't love me anymore. Why didn't I D her then? Because I had spent most of my life minimizing my own feelings. I still struggle with it. I can feel outraged for others, sympathetic for everyone else, but when it comes to validating myself and the hurts which I perceive, I end up minimizing it all. So my belief that my BW didn't love me anymore wasn't enough of a reason to leave. Months later, the A started and nothing changed as far as how I thought my BW felt about me, or didn't feel.

What I'm trying to say is that I didn't not do it because I felt I had no other alternative. Mine was an EA only, so most of it was entirely cerebral (not sure if I'm using that term correctly...). It was all in my head, and what was going on in my head felt good after months of detaching from a spouse who I believed didn't love me anymore. Yet, I knew my BW was a good wife and mother. There was no reason I could come up with which would warrant D, except that she didn't love me, and I wasn't important enough to accept that I deserved better.

The fallout of the A was learning how off-base I was with my thinking and trying to figure out how I could have made the choices I did, or even better, figure out how I did not know I had a choice in the first place.

This has come up many times on SI since I've been here. Choice, and the realization that there is a choice. Many people say "of course you have a choice." I don't disagree with that statement. What I think many people, especially the BS, doesn't realize is that the WS (ok...me) didn't accept that they had a choice, and the A was something that happened as a result of many events/perceptions for which there was no other outcome.

For the record, I see it all much differently now, but the choice thing can still be a struggle for me.

So, back to your original question...why didn't I not do it? I didn't think there was any other path ahead of me.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6053 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
carey
♀ Member
Member # 35829
Default  Posted: 1:08 AM, July 10th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH claimed that other than kissing 2x's, he & OMW only had a sexting type A. They sent each other a lot of pics & she sent him a couple of videos as well. I really don't believe they never had sex.

Is there any WS's that can relate?

I would really appreciate hearing from you

Thanks.


me(BW) 41
him (WH) 40
D-day 1/17/12
together for 22yrs, married 12 yrs.
2 children ages 10 & 5
You can close your eyes
to the things you don't
want to see. You can't close
your heart to the things you don't want to feel.

Posts: 540 | Registered: Jun 2012
WhatsRight
♀ Member
Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 7:57 PM, July 10th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've never posted here before...don't know the rules. Do I just jump in and ask a question?

I will do that, and if it is not protocol, somebody kick me!

I want to know if there is ANYONE - expecially WS who CANNOT talk about their 'details". My husband doesn't talk to me. He says that the words are in his head, but he just can't get them to come out his mouth.

Sometimes when I say something, he will say, "Yes, that is exactly how I feel. I just don't have the words to say it."

Is it possible that there is some kind of communication disorder, or is this total bullshit???


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1812 | Registered: Apr 2012
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, July 10th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WhatsRight

Yes, that describes my XH (the BS) to a T. That is him exactly. He has even used those words:

He says that the words are in his head, but he just can't get them to come out his mouth.

He is a complete non-communicator. He can answer Yes or No to a question (relating to feelings or motivation) but is almost completely incapable of elaborating. It is extremely frustrating.

So yes, even though he isn't a WS, there are others like that.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1919 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
carey
♀ Member
Member # 35829
Default  Posted: 10:59 PM, July 10th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If there are any WS's out there could you please come to this thread?

Thanks


me(BW) 41
him (WH) 40
D-day 1/17/12
together for 22yrs, married 12 yrs.
2 children ages 10 & 5
You can close your eyes
to the things you don't
want to see. You can't close
your heart to the things you don't want to feel.

Posts: 540 | Registered: Jun 2012
heartstabber
♀ Member
Member # 34079
Default  Posted: 12:08 PM, July 11th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Carey,

after reading your profile, it is possible that is all that happened. They were obviously deep into an EA that was very close to becoming a PA - although kissing is considered a PA.

Have you told the OWH about the texting/pic's/videos?


Me: WW
Married: 15 years
DD: November 2011

Let's eat Grandma. Let's eat, Grandma. Commas save lives.


Posts: 164 | Registered: Dec 2011
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, July 11th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Carey,

My EA was pretty much long-distance. We only met up a handful of times, and nothing occurred other than a couple of hugs. It is possible to have an EA with no PA.

I do believe though that an EA where the individuals are in close proximity will likely lead to a PA. That kind of tension will build, which explains why the sexting happened in the first place.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6053 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
PanicAttack53
♂ Member
Member # 34195
Default  Posted: 6:18 PM, July 11th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First and foremost, thanks to all the WS's in this forum for taking the time and making the effort to help other BS's.

I have some pressing issues that I just can't seem to get a handle on, even in IC. It has to do I guess with codependency and a lack on my part to not over react to my WW's guilt, pain etc...

It seems like every time WW and I talk about my feelings regarding her A, she breaks down crying, sometimes uncontrollably. On top of that, there are times when our talks are really deep that she goes into a funk that can last for days. When this happens, I find myself holding back on what I need to ask/say for fear of causing WW more pain. I fully admit that I can't stand seeing her in pain, especially if I think I'm causing it.

Unfortunately, when I back off, I then also tend to resent the fact that I'm still in great pain and that I wasn't able to express my feelings adequately enough to help me.

This is driving me and WW nuts. I don't know if it's a character flaw on my part or what? But I do know that it's not helping us move forward like we want.

So my question is, has any other WS experienced this from their BS? Other than IC, is there any thing you did or tried that helped your BS get past this "not wanting to see your hurt/pain" thing?

Hope I made some sense here. Also sorry for the long post. Brevity is not one of my strong points.

[This message edited by PanicAttack53 at 6:20 PM, July 11th (Wednesday)]


Me-BH Her-XWW | B/ 60 | D final on 10/1/13 I'm Lovin' life again!
Rest of the story really doesn't matter any more.
“Realize deeply that the present moment is all you have.” ― Eckhart Tolle

Posts: 868 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Midwest
Lost333
♀ Member
Member # 35182
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, July 11th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it possible that there is some kind of communication disorder, or is this total bullshit???

To answer your question:

There are times when my BH asks me questions that are extremely uncomfortable for me to answer (because I am ashamed of my behavior and scared he will start raging at me) and I literally PANIC. It is like I freeze, I can't think straight, and I can't articulate what I want to say. I then usually get defensive, and have trouble getting my words out.

However, I realize this is not helpful to my BH and I need to get over MY sense of fear and focus on HIS needs. It has helped me to take a few deep breaths and think about my answer first.

Also, in the beginning me not wanting to share details was about covering my ass....not trouble articulating...


Me:29,WS/BS Him:27, BS/WS (DontTreadOnMe) His Dday 2/19/12. My Dday 9/29/12
Married: 2 yrs, together 4 1/2

"And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom" Anais Nin


Posts: 689 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Midwest
Lost333
♀ Member
Member # 35182
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, July 11th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PanicAttack53-

Your post sounds alot like my BH. There are times when I feel him holding back his hurt because he doesn't want to hurt me.

I have also been guilty of crying uncontrollably and breaking down when we talk about the A or he shares his feelings with me.

I remember him saying to me one time that he just could not take what I had done to him AND what I was doing now (freaking out, trying to hurt myself, acting depressed).....So, I stopped and thought. How would I feel if I was the BS and he was acting like this after hurting me? I would be enraged and feel even more alone. So I have tried to make a conscious effort not to make him feel bad when he shares with me.

There are times where I will cry with him, but I always try to be strong for him in those moments as well.

I think I have helped him not to feel guilty by putting his needs first when he is upset (listening to him, not making it about me, not feeling sorry for myself, remaining calm) and encouraging him to share whenever possible. Also, when things get tough I try to remain calm. He sees this and realizes that I won't "break" everytime he is upset.

I am still working on being the calm and stable shelter during this storm but everyday I do it I feel more confident that I can do it next time.

Also, it seems like your WW is having some difficulty coping with her shame (that is usually why I break down). Is she taking steps to help make herself stronger in this process?



Me:29,WS/BS Him:27, BS/WS (DontTreadOnMe) His Dday 2/19/12. My Dday 9/29/12
Married: 2 yrs, together 4 1/2

"And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom" Anais Nin


Posts: 689 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Midwest
PanicAttack53
♂ Member
Member # 34195
Default  Posted: 7:02 PM, July 11th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I have helped him not to feel guilty by putting his needs first when he is upset (listening to him, not making it about me, not feeling sorry for myself, remaining calm) and encouraging him to share whenever possible. Also, when things get tough I try to remain calm. He sees this and realizes that I won't "break" everytime he is upset.

Thank you Lost,
This is exactly what I need. I wish I knew how to tell WW it's what I need. This may sound selfish but I just can't stop myself from feeling like it's more about her needs than mine when she does the crying, in a funk thing. I want to respect the fact that she's hurting from this shitty mess too, but right now I need it to be 100% about me. Am I wrong to think like this?

I am still working on being the calm and stable shelter during this storm but everyday I do it I feel more confident that I can do it next time.

Kudos to you for this! I can tell you being a BS that this means the world to us. I mean just the fact that you're trying so hard means so very much!

Also, it seems like your WW is having some difficulty coping with her shame (that is usually why I break down). Is she taking steps to help make herself stronger in this process?

She tells me that she has been working on this in IC very hard. That she has almost got to the point of forgiving herself, (whatever that means). I know that she has been confronting tons of self esteem and FOO issues. She really IS a better person and it shows more and more everyday. I want her to get better, and I also want to support that. I just wonder sometimes when will it be MY turn, and ONLY about what I need to heal? Maybe I'm being too selfish here, I just don't know anymore.


Me-BH Her-XWW | B/ 60 | D final on 10/1/13 I'm Lovin' life again!
Rest of the story really doesn't matter any more.
“Realize deeply that the present moment is all you have.” ― Eckhart Tolle

Posts: 868 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Midwest
Lost333
♀ Member
Member # 35182
Default  Posted: 8:27 PM, July 11th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PanicAttack53-

No, I don't think it is wrong or selfish for you to want her to focus on your needs. Sometimes she will need to put her feelings aside to reassure and help you heal from the damage that she chose to cause.

However, I think she will be better able to do this if she is working on healing herself and becoming a healthier, stronger person.

Once I started really working on me I was better able to tend to my BH because I didn't feel so "fragile" and broken all of the time.

Honestly, I still have a long way to go but each time I handle things the right way I feel more confident. If your WW is on SI she is more than welcome to PM me.

Just another note: my BH also has issues with guilt and trying to please others. He has had to really make an effort to put his needs first and tell me what he wants. Maybe you could write her a letter or a list of what your needs are?


Me:29,WS/BS Him:27, BS/WS (DontTreadOnMe) His Dday 2/19/12. My Dday 9/29/12
Married: 2 yrs, together 4 1/2

"And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom" Anais Nin


Posts: 689 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Midwest
PanicAttack53
♂ Member
Member # 34195
Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, July 11th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He has had to really make an effort to put his needs first and tell me what he wants.

I think this is called "Codependency" by the headshrinkers. I know I have a BAD case of it and I've been working on it in IC. I've also just ordered a new book called "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover. Don't let the title fool you. It's not about not being nice, but ALL about trying too hard to please others while neglecting one's own needs. If you want, I'll let you know how it goes after I read it.

Maybe you could write her a letter or a list of what your needs are?

Thanks. I've done this but somehow it seemed to get lost in the shuffle of this whole sh!tty mess. Hmmm, might be time to revisit and revise that list.

[This message edited by PanicAttack53 at 9:07 PM, July 11th (Wednesday)]


Me-BH Her-XWW | B/ 60 | D final on 10/1/13 I'm Lovin' life again!
Rest of the story really doesn't matter any more.
“Realize deeply that the present moment is all you have.” ― Eckhart Tolle

Posts: 868 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Midwest
Lost333
♀ Member
Member # 35182
Default  Posted: 10:56 PM, July 11th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, the term is codependency and that book would probably really benefit my BH-I will let him know about it. He has taken alot of crap from me over the years and since the A has worked on setting boundaries with me-which has really empowered him and helped his healing.


Me:29,WS/BS Him:27, BS/WS (DontTreadOnMe) His Dday 2/19/12. My Dday 9/29/12
Married: 2 yrs, together 4 1/2

"And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom" Anais Nin


Posts: 689 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Midwest
DWBH
♂ Member
Member # 35512
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, July 12th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Looking for some WS feedback on this:

Do you WS still have "fond" memories of your AP and the relationship you had? Do you still miss your AP? Do you miss the "friendship", or the romantic bond, or both?

Regarding the "fond" memories of the relationship: Do you view this as healthy? I'm furious over my fWW's admittal of this. I've told her she is compartmentalizing again, keeping the "bubble" alive in her head, and separating that from the reality and consequences of the A (the pain caused to me, to the OBS, etc.). She readily admits it was a toxic, fantasy-land relationship... yet still thinks of the "good" feelings she had from the relationship; how he made her feel good, and 'special'. She says she does NOT want the A back, and has NO inclination to contact him again, but still has many moments of "aww... I miss him, and how'd we laugh together"... yada, yada, yada.

We are only a little over two months from NC, so perhaps this is completely normal and expected. My wish is that she reaches a point of feeling complete indifference regarding him and the relationship, and that she feels nothing but guilt/shame/badness when she's triggered to think of him and the relationship.

Thoughts?


Me: BH, 43
Her: FWW, 41 (ThornyRose)
M: 16 years, together 19
2 Daughters: 14 and 12
D Day: 9/25/2011; Lies & TT to 5/4/2012
~Double betrayal; caught them in the act~

Posts: 729 | Registered: May 2012 | From: WI
heartstabber
♀ Member
Member # 34079
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, July 12th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DWBH - I have no feelings for my AP at all. I wouldn't give a shit if he died tomorrow. But all A's are different - it seems that your WW had a pretty heavy EA (as well as a PA) going on with all the texting and laughing - and they had a true friendship in the open. Maybe that is why she still holds feelings for him. I saw your post about this in another thread and you did tell her that you wanted to know what she was thinking - well she told you. You have to appreciate that she was honest with you. I am sure that she feels guilt and shame when thinking about her A. Perhaps indifference will come soon. Definitely let her know how much it hurts you that she still holds feeling for him, but give it time. Hopefully she will completely let him go emotionally and realize that she is wasting energy with those thoughts of him that still linger.


Me: WW
Married: 15 years
DD: November 2011

Let's eat Grandma. Let's eat, Grandma. Commas save lives.


Posts: 164 | Registered: Dec 2011
Lost333
♀ Member
Member # 35182
Default  Posted: 7:43 PM, July 12th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DWBH-

I do not have any fond memories of the OM and feel disgusted and ashamed when thinking or talking about the A or OM. There are times when I am triggered by something and will have a flashback of a particular scene (something OM said to me, or a look on OM's face) and I feel as if I want to throw up. However, my A lasted a month and did not involve much of an emotional connection or friendship so maybe that is why.

Sometimes I feel indifference towards OM, sometimes I feel anger and hate.

Maybe it would help your WS to recognize the type of person that would become involved with a married person. I realized that OM was intentionally trying to use me, didn't care that I was married, and doesn't have many, if any, morals.


Me:29,WS/BS Him:27, BS/WS (DontTreadOnMe) His Dday 2/19/12. My Dday 9/29/12
Married: 2 yrs, together 4 1/2

"And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom" Anais Nin


Posts: 689 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Midwest
DWBH
♂ Member
Member # 35512
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, July 13th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, Lost... yes, the emotional connection they had was deep... nobody can really say when the boundaries were crossed emotionally, likely months or years before the PA? Physically, it's pretty clear-cut, but emotionally... eh... we've known him for 10+ years, and his wife for 16+ years. They were like our best friends, in terms of couples we hung out with.

Maybe it would help your WS to recognize the type of person that would become involved with a married person. I realized that OM was intentionally trying to use me, didn't care that I was married, and doesn't have many, if any, morals.

THIS is exactly part of the problem. While MOM certainly has some predatory behaviors, and one other known A (7 years ago, with another good friend in our circle!)... it was not a one-sided thing. My fWW isn't much different than him. So... what kind of person remains M and wants to R with someone who did what she did?? Rhetorical question... but it begs the question, how can she hate someone who essentially did what she did? And for the record, while I would LOVE it if she hated him as much as I do... I never stated that I wanted her too, required her too, or think that is healthy. I just simply want her to NOT have "fond" memories of their time together.

After some healthy discussion again on this yesterday, she acknowledges that she understands that, and needs to reach that place. She also says she is slowly realizing that thinking of the relationship as anything but a love affair (as opposed to a friendship) is wrong/invalid. I don't think she's there quite yet, but it's progress.

[This message edited by DWBH at 9:15 AM, July 13th (Friday)]


Me: BH, 43
Her: FWW, 41 (ThornyRose)
M: 16 years, together 19
2 Daughters: 14 and 12
D Day: 9/25/2011; Lies & TT to 5/4/2012
~Double betrayal; caught them in the act~

Posts: 729 | Registered: May 2012 | From: WI
carey
♀ Member
Member # 35829
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, July 13th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for replying to my post.

I realize that it was a stupid question.


me(BW) 41
him (WH) 40
D-day 1/17/12
together for 22yrs, married 12 yrs.
2 children ages 10 & 5
You can close your eyes
to the things you don't
want to see. You can't close
your heart to the things you don't want to feel.

Posts: 540 | Registered: Jun 2012
nlovemyfamily
♀ Member
Member # 15258
Default  Posted: 3:26 AM, July 16th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

need to understand from fWS looking back what they payoff was staying in the A after realizing you have lost everything you valued, Marriage loyalty, family, home, respect, integrity, the whole gamut of negatives but with all this the A continued. What was the payoff that offset all you knew and believed about yourself? And what made you want to relinquish this payoff when you ended your A?

Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
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