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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 6
NothngElseMattrs
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Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, July 16th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nlovemyfamily, I hope you don't mind me trying this one, although my situation isn't exactly what you described.

I wasn't thinking about the price or the payoff. I wasn't thinking about the effects of the A on my integrity, my M, etc. The first thing that hit me and brought me back to reality was the deep shame of what I had done. It makes me sick, even more so when I think about the bigger picture and the effect on it.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, July 16th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

need to understand from fWS looking back what they payoff was staying in the A after realizing you have lost everything you valued, Marriage loyalty, family, home, respect, integrity, the whole gamut of negatives but with all this the A continued. What was the payoff that offset all you knew and believed about yourself?


NLMF,

It's the same question that we ask when an alcoholic continues drink, in spite of the fact he knows he's loosing everything. Or when a drug addict continues to chase after that elusive high that takes his mind off of all the woes and loses he’s created for himself, only to spiral down even further. Or the diabetic that cannot resist the craving flavor of a candy bar or the refreshing taste of a super size soft drink, only to lament later as they crash again for the umpteenth time.

The payoff; Is the high, the fantasy, the adrenalin rush, the ESCAPES FROM REALITY!

Having an affair provides the same temporal escapes from reality as drugs or alcohol or even food. Which is why we cannot reason with an active adulterer any more than we can reason with a drunk, or an active drug addict or a diabetic refusing to maintain their diet.

IMO, reality is often what these groups of people are trying to escape. The bills, the baby's, the job, the responsibility, the boredom, the depression, etc. etc. etc...... . So if escaping reality is the allure, what makes that first step down that path possible for an adulterer? IMO, it's the lack of “personal boundaries” in their life. Once the first boundary falls, the rest of them fall, one right after another, just like domino's.

As a friend of mine pointed out to me, after my affair ended; “It’s getting hit by the first train car that kills someone, they’re already dead by the time the caboose runs em over”. (My lack of boundaries was the Engine of the train that hit my marriage, the OW was no more than the caboose.)

Another payoff for these groups of people; It's easier to walk away than it is to man up and fix everything they've broken.

[This message edited by Card at 1:17 PM, July 16th (Monday)]


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
struggling35
♂ New Member
Member # 35953
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, July 20th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

for the WS

my WW said this to me as we are trying to R, "I am doing my best right now, I can't help it if I'm not showing you the attention you would rather have and want"

i'm not quite sure how to interpret that


Posts: 17 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: DC
WalkinOnEggshelz
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Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 7:07 PM, July 20th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Struggling,

Can you elaborate on that or put that statement into context?

What does her best look like to you? Is she in IC? Is she making effort that you can see?

The way she might be looking at it is under normal circumstances she is doing all that a good wife does. But these aren't normal circumstances are they? Being a good wife is the bare minimum she could be doing. So what is it you are needing or wanting from her? Do you want more affection/attention or do you need her to be more vulnerable to you? Do you need her to be the one to start a conversation and open up to you to express her feelings about the A?

I will tell you that I have spent much of my life guarded. It is very difficult to put myself out there when I know anger and rejection could be the result. My BH has had to be very specific with me at times regarding his wants and needs. Which sucks really, because if he is telling me specifically what he needs and I give it to him, it has much less meaning. But I've been clueless.

There has been a time that I thought relationships were what I was getting from them. We have come to terms that I needed to need less. When she says she is "doing the best she can" maybe she really is because she doesn't have the experience or knowledge of how to do more.

Do you feel she gets it? I know I am asking a lot of questions but her statement could mean so many things.


Me: WS 41
Him: BH 42 (holdingtogether)
M: 17 years, together 21
2 Daughters: 12 and 9
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
WhatsRight
♀ Member
Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, July 23rd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do I ask my question here??? I am sorry if I am t/j anyone.

My question is for WS who have guilt and shame for their infidelity, but do not discuss, answer questions from your BS, etc.

My husband answered questions for a short time, but after a while stopped. I know that part of the reason is because he loves to build a wall and is very conflict avoidant.

But, I have to admit that I was also very volitile and hysterical, and attacking toward him at first. I can't even remember what I might have said to him.

Now, after 5+ years, lots of ups and downs, he has started reading with me again, and hasn't left the room during a low key conversation (not directly about the infidelity).

My question is this...What are suggestions for how to get what I need without scarring him away?

What I need is the truth about what happened, and to be able to alude to the infidelity when we have issues that arise from it. (His facebook account, residual lack of total trust, etc.)

When talking to him, I measure every word, watch my tone, etc. But sometimes, no matter what I do, he won't talk.

Any suggestions???


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1812 | Registered: Apr 2012
She-Ra
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Member # 36033
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, July 24th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'll try to answer for What's right..

I have a lot of shame about my infidelity to say the least and haven't yet answered any questions from BS because I haven't told him yet.. :( I will be confessing, that's a whole other thread.

Anyways, did you say that it's been 5+ years since his A?

I must say that I wouldn't wish to discuss my A's 5+ years down the road although I don't think I'll have a choice. My H might be the type to throw it in my face during every future argument...

Maybe your H thinks he's done enough talking? He probably thinks he's told you enough and tired of it hanging over his head? Sorry just speculating.. Some men are not very good at communicating during the best of times so he might have a hard time discussing this over and over again. (or so it seems like it has been especially if you were freaking out on him a lot at the beginning which is understandable)

How to get him to open up again...? Not sure how to answer that because that kinda falls into a general question of how do you get men to talk? did you guys go to MC? If you haven't gone for awhile, maybe its time to go again?

[This message edited by messedupchick at 6:06 PM, July 24th (Tuesday)]


FWW 33 BH 33
Met 8 yrs ago, together for 6, married for 3
Dday Aug 10, 2012
Beautiful baby daughter born June 2013
Now in limbo.. I'm allowed to have deal breakers too

The WW formerly known as messedupchick


Posts: 736 | Registered: Jul 2012
time2grow
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Member # 35983
Default  Posted: 8:15 PM, July 24th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This should be interesting but I will ask the WS anyway. Even when I had proof of the A the WW denied it. There was no R we went straight to D. She has been a real B the last few years but I want to do my part to try being nice to her, at least respect her for being human. The only communication I have with her is by email and it is about my son. I do not intend to bring it up but should she bring up the A sometime in the future are there any suggestions of things I want to avoid? I do not see this happening but for the sake of argument lets say she hits bottom and gets herself in IC. During IC she is encouraged to discuss it with me. I hope someday she finds the help she needs and I am willing to do my part but I want it to be beneficial to all involved. Are there any suggestions of things I want to avoid saying?

As far as myself I know I will not be asking how many or why. It does not matter we are done.


Posts: 1647 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Missouri
Bubbleup
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Member # 36120
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, July 25th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wondering how long it takes for a WS to deal with the loss of their extramarital relationship?

I caught and confronted my wife the same day but after the fact(audio monitoring the home) and she's denied many things in this process I found later to be true.

So from her perspective she's dealing with 1) the major devastation her actions are causing our marriage 2) a severe element of mistrust and betrayal that will need to be addressed and 3)the loss of physical and non-physical contact with her OM.

WS has been honest enough to tell me she misses his companionship and it's apparent she is also going through a grieving process of sorts.

This might sound bizarre but what kind of support does she need from me to assist her with what she's going though? (hoping full well that working through her emotions as well as mine, will allow us to both be better off in the future).


Here's a statement that I made that we both agree with and aspire to acheive:

Things will never be the same between us (and I hope we both see that as a good thing). I hope we can elevate what’s left to ‘great’ and what’s been missing to ‘here’ and also great.

[This message edited by Bubbleup at 10:41 AM, July 25th (Wednesday)]


Me: BS 50
Her: WS 45 NC since 10/29/12
D-Day 1 4-20-2012 D-Day 2 9-7-13
Kids 2: 10yrs, 5yrs
Married 18 years, Together 24 years
Blind to EA for years
EA became PA

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: NY
sri624
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Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, July 25th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i'm devasted....i have been in "r" with my husband for the last 9 months after he confessed an affair during my pregnancy. he had been doing everything he could to repair the marriage...you name it. except provide complete transparency. i never had access to his email, phone etc as a condition of r. last week, i looked in his phone and found a dirty text. i confronted him, he begged, pleaded, you name it for me not to leave him. he met her a year ago on line and they sext each other. he said that he has a coke problem that makes him have these sexual urges and that he needs help in rehab. he begged me to go to see his ic with him which i did. i told him that i would only stay if he agreed to rehab, no drinking, ic/mc and complete transparency....meaning access to all phone, computer, email, etc. he came back and said that he would do everythign except provide access to his phone call detail logs. red flag. i told him that wasnt acceptable and he left to stay at his brother's house. he has been gone a week now. he has sent texts apologizing for the sexting but no mention of any of the items i laid down.

he obviously has something to hide if he would walk away from this marriage instead of showing me the phone logs.

i have done a complete 180...and will not have any communications with him unless it is specifically regarding our baby.

regardless of what is on the logs...i feel like he should step up and face me...not run away like a coward.

my question is....am i taking the right approach by drawing the line in the sand and not backing down unless all of those conditions are met?


BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 1 baby
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
Attempting R in bitchboots

Posts: 907 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
DWBH
♂ Member
Member # 35512
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, July 25th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bubbleup:
Wondering how long it takes for a WS to deal with the loss of their extramarital relationship?

I don't think there is a prescribed time for this to occur... I recently posted about this; recommend you check it out: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=463413&HL=35512

What I took away from this thread, is that the WS absolutely needs to work on seeing the reality of the A, realizing the consequences, and not "romanticize" the relationship at all. As HT said in that thread... shine a 1000 watts of light on what they did, and help the WS see what they did was vial, wrong, deceitful, etc.

I was just having a conversation with my fWW about how she and MOM talked, after I had caught them. He told her that they would "always find a way to have stolen moments" or some such shit. I started thinking about that, and I've heard her say this phrase stolen moments in the past as well. So, I decided to shine some light on this, and sent my fWW this email:

"The term Stolen Moments sounds like such a romantic term, and I'm sure it was when he and you used the phrase.

Stolen implies you are taking something that doesn't belong to you. You are depriving someone else, of something they deserve, own or earned, and taking it to meet your own needs. These moments you stole were not only from me and OBS... but from our kids, yourself, and from us. The actions were so callous, shallow and selfish... and you deprived others of something we deserved and earned: your time, love, affection, trust and loyalty. You took those things from me, and to an extent from our children. You took away the opportunity (almost permanently) for us to be a couple, a team.

'Don't worry, we'll always find our stolen moments', or whatever he said after I caught you two... It's a false romantic gesture that is constructed of deceit and pain for others, all to meet his and your selfish needs at the time. How it made you feel, at the time (and perhaps even now in a diminished or faded sense) was at the expense of others, as you took away something from others. This was not an act or gesture of love or affection; it was quite the opposite."

Hope some of this helps...


Me: BH, 43
Her: FWW, 41 (ThornyRose)
M: 16 years, together 19
2 Daughters: 14 and 12
D Day: 9/25/2011; Lies & TT to 5/4/2012
~Double betrayal; caught them in the act~

Posts: 729 | Registered: May 2012 | From: WI
WalkinOnEggshelz
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Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, July 25th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sri624,
Full transparency is a more than reasonable stipulation for R. The fact that he won't give it to you is definitely a red flag.

my question is....am i taking the right approach by drawing the line in the sand and not backing down unless all of those conditions are met?

I personally feel it is absolutely the right approach. The real question is are you comfortable with it? If he were to look you in the eye and tell you that he will not give you what you want, are you comfortable with then saying that you can no longer proceed in R?

What you need to figure out is where your line can no longer budge. NC with his AP(s) and transparency are the bare minimums he should be giving you. Without even meeting you, I can tell you that are worth that much! But he needs to know you are serious and if your line is ever changing he will have a hard time realizing that.

Is he working on any of your other conditions? Has he gone to rehab?


Me: WS 41
Him: BH 42 (holdingtogether)
M: 17 years, together 21
2 Daughters: 12 and 9
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
metamorphisis
♀ Administrator
Member # 12041
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, July 26th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DWBH, This is not the thread for BS to answer. You may ask questions of the WS's here, but they are to answer questions. Please reread the first post. Thank you



“We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are.”... Anais Nin

Posts: 42818 | Registered: Sep 2006
Bubbleup
♂ Member
Member # 36120
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, July 26th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DWBH:

I read the entire thread you pointed me to. Thank you and WOW, I'm new here and continue to be amazed at how similar the storyline goes.

So you dealt with TT for a little over 7 months? It's only been 3 for me and I'm going batshit crazy.

WS is in complete denial RE: acknowledging the shit she needs to own with her indiscretions. She is also dealing with 'feelings' as she and the OM had been close friends for years before they leveled up to fluid swapping. It's just occuring to me that this is a years long EA turned year long PA...

I knew he's always been sweet on my wife (she's everything his wife is not) but never thought that my WS would have taken the road she did.

Two night's ago I pulled up 'Jeffery's letter on the PC and had her read it. She picked it apart and tossed it saying that dirty secerts will not help me and will not be divulged.

Last night I printed out 'Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse' read it over to be sure I wanted to give it to her and left it on my night stand.

She glanced at the title this morning, "Oh you have something for me to read? This is the last thing I'll be reading from you."

I looked her in the eye and said no, if you can't read and comprehend those pages on the nightstand and apologize for your statement, the next thing you'll be reading is a restraining order and separation papers. Then you'll probably read something along the lines of 'How Could You?' from the OBS (I haven't told her yet - working/ waking up to that by the passing minute).

Advise WS that it's a real possibility she'll need to pack a bag tonight. I'm completely fed up with her shit and denial over this. If I'm to provide a gift of forgiveness (and believe me I really do want to forgive her) it has to be on my terms not hers.

Her body language changed from aloof to negotiable as soon as I stopped talking.

I threw down the gauntlet and am ready to back it up b/c I know that I'll stand taller alone than together on her terms and I think I'll stand the tallest with her on my terms. There's no in between anymore.

[This message edited by Bubbleup at 10:03 AM, July 26th (Thursday)]


Me: BS 50
Her: WS 45 NC since 10/29/12
D-Day 1 4-20-2012 D-Day 2 9-7-13
Kids 2: 10yrs, 5yrs
Married 18 years, Together 24 years
Blind to EA for years
EA became PA

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: NY
Bubbleup
♂ Member
Member # 36120
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, July 26th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Would like to hear from any WS as well...


Me: BS 50
Her: WS 45 NC since 10/29/12
D-Day 1 4-20-2012 D-Day 2 9-7-13
Kids 2: 10yrs, 5yrs
Married 18 years, Together 24 years
Blind to EA for years
EA became PA

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: NY
Stillhere97
♀ Member
Member # 36122
Default  Posted: 9:08 PM, July 26th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question. My WH works out of the country and the guys all drink in excess and my husband after being there more then home for 10 month had a ONS with one of the bar maids. He is now 100% in R and feels bad. Says that it was like another life over there. Just hanging put parting with the guys. My question is can you be the drunk and far away to slip away from a good marriage?


BW 38
WH 40
Married 14yrs
2 kids
One night stand in foreign country
Process R!!!

Posts: 109 | Registered: Jul 2012
She-Ra
♀ Member
Member # 36033
Default  Posted: 1:07 AM, July 27th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Stillhere, I would have to say YES but a perfectly good marriage that would need work to become a strong, excellent marriage.

Hopefully with your H's remorse from the drunken ONS will help with the rebuilding your marriage to better than it ever was before.

Unfortunately I've fallen into a trap that I created myself with the "out of sight, out of mind" or one that I came up with.. "absence makes the eyes wander". Clearly both your WH and myself need to work on our boundary problems and work on ourselves so we don't get into situations like that. He might be using the "foreign" country as an extra excuse but really it was him betraying you while he was away. Let's say, you're away and he's at home. He might have done the same thing but drunk at a local bar. Who's to say that he needed a foreign country. I didn't.

I took my perfectly good marriage and have seriously tarnished it with my cheating. Now I can only hope that confessing to my H and hard work, we can rebuild ours too.

[This message edited by messedupchick at 1:10 AM, July 27th (Friday)]


FWW 33 BH 33
Met 8 yrs ago, together for 6, married for 3
Dday Aug 10, 2012
Beautiful baby daughter born June 2013
Now in limbo.. I'm allowed to have deal breakers too

The WW formerly known as messedupchick


Posts: 736 | Registered: Jul 2012
Stillhere97
♀ Member
Member # 36122
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, July 27th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you so much, Messedupchick. I hope that all goes well for you and your marriage. We have set up boundries of no drinking at all while way and no bars at all. He goes to work and dinner(not drinks with dinner)then to his room and we skype before he goes to bed. and when he wakes up. We had to work at the talking to each other, because the time change. When was getting up with the kids he was going to the bars and when I was pick the kids up from school he was getting up for work. With it being summer it is easier. Can't wait to sleep in when he returns home again. I am in this and so his he. A bar is no place for any married person. He is now getting more sleep and doesnt have all boose in him. He is not a drinker at home. But he works with guys and they all go out, he didnt want to be different. I found out they were drinking to black out states and just being stupid. One more week and he will be home again.


BW 38
WH 40
Married 14yrs
2 kids
One night stand in foreign country
Process R!!!

Posts: 109 | Registered: Jul 2012
nothings special
♀ Member
Member # 33976
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, July 27th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for WS's my H said twice that "you don't have the body of a 20 something" and "yes, her pussy was ****, but that never has been a problem with me enjoying you" So my question is.. Do I continue to take this personally, matter of factly, reality or just get over it? Has this this type of situation or topic come up between others? How does a BS get over this? How can my WS help me get over this?!

[This message edited by nothings special at 3:24 PM, August 9th (Thursday)]


Posts: 171 | Registered: Nov 2011
WalkinOnEggshelz
♀ Member
Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, July 28th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nothings special,

That's a tough one and would depend greatly on the context in which those statements were made.

Were those statements made in response to direct questions you asked him? If so, he may be just trying to be very honest with you and stumbling a bit to be sensitive about it. Let's face it, us women are extremely sensitive when it comes to body image. I've known women that are in fantastic shape but still feel insecure about certain aspects of their body. If you are anything but a twenty something year old, gravity is beginning to do its "magic"! So the statement that you don't have a body of a twenty something year old, is a very honest statement. It is reality. I just turned 40 last month. I have had a lifetime struggle with my weight going up and down. As I began the journey of working on myself, I have begin to eat well and exercise regularly. I have a confidence in myself that I have never had before. I'm much more on touch with myself a whole these days and although I have flaws, I accept them these days because they make me who I am.

My husband and I have had several discussions regarding body image since DDay. I had always felt that he was settling for my body type but secretly wanted an Anjolina Jolie kind of sexy. Having these honest discussions has really opened my eyes that what he considers sexy or enjoyable was not always in line with what I thought he wanted or needed for that matter. But in order to get there we had to push through some of the hurt and insecurities.

That said, if he said those things during a heated argument, it could easily be taken as an equivalent of the "small penis" comment that some WW's use with their BH's. It could be seen as going for the jugular. Context is very important.

Is he remorseful and trying to be very open and honest with you? Or is he still blame shifting and trying to put back on you? Is he elaborating and telling you what he finds attractive about you? Or is he leaving statements like that hanging?

Before you can make any kind of decision as to how to take it, he needs to continue to work on his "why's" and really see how these statements tie into them.

Either way, I know it's hurtful. I commend you for putting yourself out there and trying to move forward.

Good luck to you.


Me: WS 41
Him: BH 42 (holdingtogether)
M: 17 years, together 21
2 Daughters: 12 and 9
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
nothings special
♀ Member
Member # 33976
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, July 28th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

woes (wow- what that a coincidence?)
thank you VERY much for your reply. it helps. my dday was may 2011. it had been over, i found out and he knew his whys and explained them the next day. they were significant but have been dealt with and now we are just dealing with the fallout of the a.

i specifically asked about the second topic. but he volunteered the other information on two occasions during late night discussions and cant remember saying what he had.

im right there at your age - size 2. kickbox, race bikes, yoga, surf, drive motorcycles, race cars, etc... i am fit! i will take it as you have described.... probably just a cheap shot.... he has been picture prefect. uber thoughtful, helpful, i could not ask for more... maybe i just should not ask such pointed and direct questions!

i truly appreciate your time. i feel a little bit better :/


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