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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 6
sickrn
♀ Member
Member # 36398
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, September 2nd (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BBFF So, do you think the willingness to finally come clean with the whole story signals a clearing of the fog? Am I just being optimistic? There is a definite change in "energy" if that makes sense...less secrecy, more openess...am I crazy or could this actually be a good sign?


M=23 yrs
DD-22
BW=46
WH=46
DDAY 6/12

In R....trust but verify!

The truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark.
It scares you witless,
But in time you see things clear and stark - Elvis


Posts: 89 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Purgatory
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, September 2nd (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think anytime a WS drops the defensiveness and stops blaming others it is a good sign. There are other things that should be happening in conjunction with this though, like being accountable for their whereabouts, being transparent, being honest...it all adds up to a WS who is getting it.

The BS will always have the choice to believe their WS or not. They will always have the option of staying in R or not. If the WS sticks with it, knowing that their BS could choose either way, it is a good sign.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6050 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
crossroads2010
♀ Member
Member # 30213
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, September 2nd (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am to apoint where I really need to talk to my WH about things he is not going to want to talk about or hear. I need to understand things about his relationship with the OW and understand why this happened...things I don't think he even knows. Need to communicate with a middle aged WS ina A with old gf...is anyone there

Posts: 509 | Registered: Nov 2010
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 11:17 PM, September 2nd (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

crossroads2010,

I need to understand things about his relationship with the OW and understand why this happened...

some very basic whys;

He had a low burning flame that never went out for this old girlfriend.

He never maintained good boundaries with women.

His lack of boundaries allowed him to take steps very quickly that re-ignited the old low burning flame intto a fast and hot burning flame.

He was willing to allow the old girl friend to meet his needs in ways he liked. (again no boundaries)

He was willing to ignore all the warning signs, the bells and whistles that would alarm a prudent man with healthy boundaries.

He had some resentments toward you that went unspoken and unresolved. This was conversation material for the old girlfriend to focus upon when the discussion turned to the condition of his marriage.

He was looking for escape from his reality. He wanted something that "felt" good for the moment. This old girlfriend was like hanging out with his old high school buddies and re-living the good times.... the times that existed before there were any responsibilities.

The whys can go on and on...
...They are 100% the responsibility of the WS!
...They need to be owned by the WS as well.

The WS must answer the questions their spouse needs to hear for recovery to have a chance. After the spouse is satisfied, the affair talk needs to end and recovery needs to become 100% of focus.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, September 3rd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

crossroads, I'm with Card on this one.

I still don't call myself a middle-aged man...but 43 is old enough...and yes, my EA was with an xHSGF which happened right after the 20-year reunion.

My reasons were somewhat different. While I tried talking myself into believing the MOW was my "first love", I now realize that she wasn't. There was no low burning flame. There were questions/problems about the breakup. Given where I was emotionally at the time (not necessarily A related stuff...) I took the answers MOW gave for that breakup as the answer that put everything in place from so long ago and used that as validation for why I was unhappy in my M. Pretty screwed up thinking.

The rest of the stuff fits pretty well with what Card has already listed out.

And the BS always has the option of talking about the A. There really is no time limit on that one.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6050 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
crossroads2010
♀ Member
Member # 30213
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, September 3rd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He had some resentments toward you that went unspoken and unresolved. This was conversation material for the old girlfriend to focus upon when the discussion turned to the condition of his marriage.

Thank you for responding to a poorly worded question...this is a big part of it...please check in as I have more to ask..just can't right now...my situation is rather unique and I don't know how to piece it all together.


Posts: 509 | Registered: Nov 2010
lifeblowntobits
♀ Member
Member # 33687
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, September 3rd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok. I have an issue with my fWH that we have talked about ad nauseum. We have discussed it between the two of us, we have talked about it in MC, and I have told fWH how I feel...I still am not getting the results I am hoping for, so I am hoping to gain some insight from some WS'.

Here is my problem: Sex...or lack thereof. After our initial hb phase, sex really diminished between the two of us. I wasn't initiating b/c my self-esteem was so shot, and fWH wasn't initiating either. Some of the reasons he gave me for him not initiating have been: guilt, fear of rejection, feeling un-worthy of sex. I have told him that I would be very receptive to sex, but am very uncomfortable initiating. I am not trying to punish him, but rather right now it is very hard for me to put myself out there. I want sex with him, and have come right out and told him this...many, many times!

I am craving the physical attention from him and not getting it and am getting very frustrated. He states he is 100% committed to R and I do not believe him to currently be in an A. So why doesn't he want me? I have suffered so much from his A, and this just feels like him saying he doesn't want me again! Pre-A, when our M was in a bad place, we were also not having sex. We are trying to make our M different/better than it was pre-A and during the A.

My question I guess is can there be other issues that prevent A WS from wanting to have sex with their BS? He is in a place right now of deep self-hatred and guilt, but wouldn't doing the things I tell him I want help him with that? I am really beginning to think he just isn't attracted to me anymore...


Me-BS-44, Him-WH-45-very remorseful
OW-Married, opportunistic co-worker whore
DD#1 7-30-2011: everything else lies until 2-12-12
Married 11years, DS19y, DS15y
2.5 years out: in a good place, light at the end of the tunnel


Posts: 1646 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Illinois
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 7:29 PM, September 3rd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lifeblowntobits,

My opinion is that he may still be trying to deal with the "feelings/emotions" of the A.

I don't think that he is pining or wants the A over your M or anything, but finding the passion for your wife again after giving so much to the MOW is not something that will happen right away.

Just my two cents.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6050 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 9:23 PM, September 3rd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lifeblowntobits,

There are a mltitude of reasons that can cause a (f?)WH to not initiate sex.

Here are the top 4 reasons I've seen over and over again;

1) Still involved in an A ( deeper underground)

2) Involved in pornagraphy and masterbating which lowers his libido and drive for actual sex with his wife. (This one is usually the culpret)

3) Testosterone level may need to be checked. Low levels will causing a lower libido.

4) Still missing OW, and not attracted to his wife enough to engage in sex.
Even after the A dies, I've often seen fWH's checking out the OW's facebook, myspace, etc... causing them to remain detached from their wife.

These are just my top 4 - there are others, but I rarely see the others.

When you say your sex life was poor before the A. I would fall back to my #2 as the possible reason.

Do you have a keylogger on his computer? Thats the best way to rule out most issues.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
crossroads2010
♀ Member
Member # 30213
Default  Posted: 5:25 AM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BaxtersBFF...you are close enough to middle-aged and you and Card "get" what I am struggling with as far as the old gf...again thank you. First, my H and I have been together since I was 17 and he was 20, almost 40 years. We "dated" for 5 years before we were married, waited 8 more before having 2 kids. We were that couple spent so much time together, others thought we were joined at the hip...we built our careers and went to school separately, but most of our free time was together. I never had any trust issues at all...he was the jealous one for most of the early years... About 13 years after our first date, we bought our first house and had our first child...he initiated this. I have been reading on SI for a few years now..coming up on 3rd dday antiversary and most situations involve new people WH has met or friends of the family. His A was with a gf from his teens that I never knew about...a relationship that that ended traumatically and that i never knew about until he told me 3 years ago on dday. He also told me he had an affair with her when my 1st was only two ...it lasted a few weeks and she went away...I think she might have been between marriages at the time and had a child herself. I NEVER knew about her or this all these years...I am having a hard time understanding how he could have kept this secret and believing that he has only had contact with her during these two A's...I am having a hard time coming up with a way to believe that this will not happen again. I stopped talking about the A about a years ago..everytime, I ended up not being able to say what I needed to and he turns it around and I feel guilty about making him feel bad...it is crazy I know. I just need to understand what he was thinking and is thinking. If someone told me this happened to them, I would think "have you been living in a cave all these years that you did not know this person?"

Posts: 509 | Registered: Nov 2010
sunflower01
Member
Member # 35847
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BaxtersBFF

Thank you for the response, I really appreciate it. You are right on so many levels about him not dealing with his own issues, and it's just so sad that he willing to sacrafice everything to protect himself. I hope one day he will snap out of it...if not for me then for the next woman that comes along.


Me BS: 35
XWS: 35
OP: 30
DD: 5/30/2012
Length of Affair: 6 yrs w/ my BF
DIVORCED

Posts: 57 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: sunflower01
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

crossroads,

I went almost 20 years without so much as a thought of MOW. Saw her once at the 10-year reunion. Never registered that there was anything there.

Our M was not that different than yours. We were that couple. Met one night and had been together ever since. Bought a house, both had "professional" jobs, then we had kids, never had any big issues to deal with. Then, 14 years into the M, things went from no problems to no nothing. For me, it was a huge, undeniable "thing" that had happened. I saw it clearly (whatever it was...) and my wife didn't.

A few months later, the 20-year reunion came, still little to no thought of the MOW (xHSGF).

Looking back, that breakup 20-years prior was quite traumatic for me. With the detachment from my wife and the "clarity" of how our M was, I was ripe for what happened next, which was the MOW finally telling me what happened to cause the breakup 20-years prior. I was caught up in that net, and all the right things were said. I bought it all. My BW didn't know anything about it until months afterward.

My state of mind, which included my perception of the pre-A issues in the M, the inability to continue using my coping mechanisms to make everything seem normal in my M and my life, the baggage from my youth...it all just came together at the same time.

Why won't it happen anymore? Because I know where I screwed up. Because I know that MOW was full of shit about everything in the past. Because my BW knows me better than anyone else and was willing to help me find myself again. She had seen who I was, who I am now, and was willing to give me that chance. I've taken the opportunity she's given me to make sure I am honest with myself about the things that go on in my life.

What I guess I am trying to say is that the relationship with your WH's xGF probably has nothing to do with you, or your M, or his A. It is all about your WH and his inability to deal with his own issues. Take the OW out of the equation. She doesn't matter, and never did.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6050 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
crossroads2010
♀ Member
Member # 30213
Default  Posted: 5:18 PM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My state of mind, which included my perception of
the pre-A issues in the M, the inability to continue using my coping mechanisms to make everything seem normal in my M and my life, the baggage from my youth...it all just came together at the same time
.

Baxters...I can see this in my WH situation...the gf and breakup came b/c they produced a child...which resulted in parents deciding they would be not see each other and child was placed for adoption just after...remember this was around 1969...life went on...he had other gfs...she went on to get married, etc.
BUT he had an A with her about 23 yaers ago...at a time when we were happy, life was good...long before problems with our marriage began...normal stuff that got out of hand....it ended....according to him, NC with her 20 years...then he looks her up. At the same time, he looked up another old gf...one I knew about...one that he felt he had wrongfed also in another way...HOW CAN HE...how did you come to deal with these issues and realize what you had to lose? The other gf he was communicating with more or less reprimanded him about his chaeting on me with the OW...I read the email. The OW told him he had never been faithful in any relationship b/c he screwed her up so badly...she was and still would be willing to be with him if he left me...or if he didn't and I allowed it or he wanted to keep it secret...I want him to realize he needs to deal with it but don't know how to make him see...can't find the right words or actions to let him know...

I do know now that it has nothing to do with me, but it sure feels like it sometimes. And I know she doesn't matter...I just can't believe that I never knew...he never mentioned her...ever.

Thank you for your insight...only someone in a similar situation with a similar mindset could get close to this one I think.


Posts: 509 | Registered: Nov 2010
crossroads2010
♀ Member
Member # 30213
Default  Posted: 5:27 PM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your insight...only someone in a similar situation with a similar mindset could get close to this one I think.

What I mean is that you have done that....I think what you said is very much what happened with us...with him.


Posts: 509 | Registered: Nov 2010
willthepaingo
♀ New Member
Member # 36022
Default  Posted: 10:55 PM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This question may have been asked many times before but I just don't have the time to read through 50 pages, so I apologies for that. My husband had a LTA but he is adamant that he has never loved her just cared for her and that he has never stopped loving me. I find this very hard to believe, could I please ask if any ws's have still loved their husband or wife and only cared, never loved the AP.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: uk
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, September 6th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Crossroads2010

I don't know your recovery story. Unless your H wrote BOTH of these OW's NC Letters, he's left the door open for more opportunities in the future.

He also needs to agree to a life of transparency with you. Not as some sort of punishment, but as some form of protection against this happening again in the future.
As I am fond of saying, "those with nothing to hide, hide nothing".

I wish you well.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, September 6th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

willthepaingo,

Your H was in a long term affair! This was not a one night stand.

I've yet to meet any wayward that did not have feelings of love, albeit a warped love, for their affair partner. Unless it was a one night stand/prostitue

As my wife has told other BS's; You should be very afraid of a man that is willing to use another woman for sex without having any emotional attachment to them. Very afraid".

[This message edited by Card at 11:34 AM, September 6th (Thursday)]


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
hurt101
♀ Member
Member # 36409
Default  Posted: 10:38 PM, September 6th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I asked this question over in reconciliation but it was recommended that I post it here too:

This is going to sound crazy but I need help to make my WH feel better about what happened. He is extremely remorseful and has done everything humanly possible to help me and fix this mess. I know he's sorry and feels like crap. I worry that he's falling into a depression over this (he's currently in IC and is on meds). I love him very much and I feel so bad that he feels so bad.

Former WS, what can I do to help him?


Me BS (35)
Him WH (38)
2 Children - 9 & 1 years
DDay #1 Sept 2011
DDay #2 Nov 2011
In R

I feel angry but not homocidal; this may be progress.


Posts: 51 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Canada
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, September 7th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hurt101,

Your H must choose how he is going to relate to his adultery. It's a choice we all make. Do we let it define who we are, do we allow our self-pity to lead us by the nose into a state of depression, or do we make suitable amends and accept that we are not the victim in our adultery.

I would expect some serious remorse and even shame in the beginning. But when it turns to self-loathing, I become concerned for the BS.
The BS may feel like they need to become a nurse to the wayward when this happens. If this happens, over time, it will likely cause the BS to feel resentment. I don't recommend you rescue a WS from their process of discovering what it takes to start making healthy choices in their lives.

I DO recommend you start a marriage program that focuses on restoring the love necessary to survive this catastrophe and come out of it all with a healthier, stronger, loving marriage. This is how your H will come out of his funk and you'll continue to receive the tending to that you deserve as the true victim.

You can go to the healing library and find a few programs like I've mentioned. My wife and I had great success with "The Marriage Builders Program".


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, September 7th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hurt101,

We are each responsible for our own healing. Like Card says, your WH has to choose to heal.

In my case, my BW was there for me, but she didn't take it easy on me either. She let me know that she wanted R, but that I had to take responsibility for what had happened. She was not going to make it easy, but she let me know she would be there with me. She let me know that I could trust her to not give up or run away as long as I was doing the work.

I know trust issues are usually talked about in regards to being able to trust the WS, but during the healing process, the WS may not trust themselves, and then they may project that onto the BS. So they may end up feeling like they can't trust their BS. A bit screwy...but I think it happens pretty often.

At the end of the day, all WS's have to live with the knowledge that they made a horrible life decision. By working through that guilt, shame embarrassment, and loss of self, we can learn that we don't have to be that person for the rest of our lives. We can admit that we did something horrible, and we can do the work to make sure it never happens again.

What kind of work has your WH done to figure out his "why"? Is he in IC?


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6050 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
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