Hello everyone else, so sorry you are here with me--My SA has been this way for 2 years!!!!! I am so lonely. I feel like I have lost 2 years of my life in some way. He is mean to me in front of my kids. I LOVE him. I don't know why.
He won't admit anything to me. He is mean and blameshifts when we went to MC. Everyone seems to be living with the same bullshit I am. He has been in a separate room for a while. If you feel that you have given it your all, you have tries MC/IC and he still is angry, entitled and an asshole well I say make a decison.
I have waited 2 years!!!!!! Even recovery nation says that if my confrontations are met with anger and blameshifting, there is no recovery going on. My gut says he is still in active cycle. I see the same patterns for 2 years. Gosh I deserve to be happy. I will always love him, but if you love it set it free...
Momoffive- Mine is in complete denial. Is not in recovery and is abusive. I filed last year hoping he would get real but he hasn't. Really, we have no control over it. He tries to manipulate me in various ways to cover his addiction.
Mine is a church leader too and still gives communion on Sundays. Yep. I know.....
I wanted my M even after all this crap, but he will never love me the way I want to be loved and I don't like his anger! I can't trust him and don't want to be checking and doing all this. I will always wonder. I am heartbroken, but done.
Hugs to you. Torn
[This message edited by torn2bits at 9:24 PM, November 1st (Tuesday)]
So two days ago WH asked me to pick my 12 step meeting so he could be sure not to pick one at the same time, so we never have to skip if we have a babysitting fail. I'm glad he was trying to be considerate but it felt like more stalling. So yesterday I confirmed a new source of childcare that takes dropoffs, so I can go to a daytime meeting instead of a nighttime one that requires driving 20+ miles in rush hour traffic and conflicts with the kids' ever-changing extracurricular activities. And I called the CSAT I like back and told her I have a childcare source that allows me a more flexible schedule, that I don't have to have the same appointment every week.
I had injured my leg yesterday and was in a lot of pain. So when I told WH when he got home, I was handling my stuff and it had no impact on him, do what he needed to do, he could see I was in pain. But probably wasn't convinced it was all leg injury, LOL, so he said he needed to use the computer for 10 minutes then he'd be back up to take care of me. In that ten minutes he compiled all the 12 step meetings reasonably close by (12 to choose from, WTH!), emailed it to himself, and then came back up and told me he'd try one tomorrow, assuming no crisis at work. I asked him when he was going to call his CSAT, and he said he wanted find a 12 step first, he might even go to a different group's meeting this week if it worked out that he could.
My leg still hurts today, and I forgot to slap the gps on his car this morning when I had the chance. I really wanted to see if he goes where he says and nowhere else. But maybe it's better this way, I can focus on getting better and not on him.
I'm frustrated. He's trying, but until he gets out of the initial stage, accepts his issues, etc he's not going to make any real progress. I just have to hope that continued exposure to class, 12 step, and IC will knock some things loose in his brain.
And I'm frustrated that the more I read, the more I see that I didn't used to be co-dep but am rapidly becoming one. I am reading How Can I Forgive You now and plan on reading Boundaries of Marriage or whatever it is next. Every book just points out more new characteristics I now have that I don't like. It's rough.
Yes, my SAWH lies in a similar pattern as your SAWH does. Itís completely crazymaking & manipulative. Like yours, my SAWH is in total denial and is in an active addiction cycle. I expect crap behavior & heís usually reliable in giving it to me. I too have made my decision. Hugs to you as you walk your path.
Do you want to be in this relationship? If so, is your SAWH in active recovery plus showing remorse for all that has hurt you?
No, I donít want to be in this relationship. No, SAWH isnít in active recovery & he isnít remorseful.
Or are you in the home, but not sure if this is the relationship for you anymore. Are you just waiting, biding your time, getting your "ducks in a row" to leave?
Yes, Iím in the home and yes, Iím definitely sure the relationship is over. Iím getting my ducks in a row & Iím actively planning to leave as soon as its financially possible.
Or are you still with your SAWH, giving him time to get serious about active recovery and feel remorse for all of the pain he inflicted upon you. But yet in the back of your mind, not sure if you will ever be able to get past what he's done and question if you will ever feel anything for your SAWH again?
Yes, weíre still together, for the reasons above. SAWH was diagnosed in June 2010, decided the therapists & the diagnosis were all crazy in December 2010 & he maintains that opinion today. Iím completely sure Iím finished with this marriage. I do love him, but the things that have been said and & done have created a dysfunctional and profoundly hurtful relationship that I have no intention whatsoever of continuing.
If you are there, giving him maybe in your mind "a set amount of time" to visibly prove to you his seriousness, how do you get by day by day?
Well, he had his set amount of time (a year after diagnosis) & heís past it. How did/do I get through it. One day at a time, one moment at a time. Making a daily choice to let go & work on myself. Reciting the serenity prayer as often as I need to (A LOT!). Making sure I go to 12 step & therapy regularly regardless of cost. Practicing strong self care *especially* when I feel too tired to bother. Even with all of this, it can still be a struggle.
I can't financially do anything right now, I'm "stuck". But yet I think "IF SAWH gets into a serious recovery, and IF SAWH can feel and show true remorse, and IF SAWH can learn how to treat me with love and respect, etc... I MIGHT want to try to work our marriage out. I'm not saying that it's a definite, but I THINK I MAY want to try.
My IC says I'm sitting on the fence...
I'm just so hurt by SAWH, hurt by "friends and churchgoers", and so confused...
My IC says I'm sitting on the fence...
I'm just so hurt by SAWH, hurt by "friends and churchgoers", and so confused...
I have been where you are- and recently. Living with an active SA is exhausting & stressful & painful & confusing. In my case indecision made my POV worse. Actively caring for myself, loving myself enough to be ďselfishĒ- to be mentally & emotionally healthier has helped tremendously. It was (and still is) strongly emphasized to me that I mustnít put *my* future in someone elseís hands and mustnít hope for ďifsĒ based on the other personís behavior choices. It took me a long time to stop putting *my* life & *my* work & *my* future on *his* seesaw. A very long time. Meanwhile, I took a job training class & went to therapy & made new friends & built myself a life separate from my SAWH & his insanity. Iíve found a part time job and am hopeful of finding a full time job soon. Iím working my recovery & my plan. My therapist told me last Friday- ďYou donít have time to be tired.Ē And sheís right. My future is in my hands, but I have to reach out for it. No one will bring it to me.
He just stormed off to bed saying I just want to keep harping on him. He says I AM THE ONE who won't take any responsibility for the problems I've caused in the marriage. (believe me, I have).. I feel so hopeless. He completely shuts me down and states he's ready to divorce because he can't stand any more interrogation..
This is classic. Typical projection and blameshifting and deflection. He turned it back on you & made the situation all about *your* supposed faults and behaviors & so-called lack of responsibility. My SAWH does this often. Itís confusing and disorienting & infuriating (after I realize he did it again, ).
Codependent behaviors are changeable, remember that. We each have the power to change for the better. At least you're able to see the behaviors you want to change! In the beginning, I didn't recognize what I was doing or why it was bad. All I could do was trust that the therapist was right & follow their advice. I didn't listen all the time & I paid a steep price for ignoring them. I had to learn the hard way.
Big big hugs to Sager & Cheetah.
[This message edited by SabinatheOwl at 10:10 AM, November 2nd (Wednesday)]
"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow
"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."
I highly recommend Your Sexually Addicted Spouse: How Partners Can Cope and Heal. It gave me such a sense of relief to understand what was happening to me and to gave me some tools to deal with it. It does address those of us who would not have been considered co-dependent but are not struggling with the label that has been applied simply because we've found ourselves with an SA partner. My IC and I took a long hard look at my past, present and how I deal with things and he was the first one to say "Just because the books say you are codependent doesn't mean you were or are." God Bless the man.
[This message edited by KickedintheGut at 12:42 PM, November 2nd (Wednesday)]
Just wanted to tell you how inspiring and helpful your posts are. You are so honest and straightforward, and for a newbie like me, its a good thing. I am, as usual, all over the place with emotion, (I think Ive posted that so many times before), all of you are so strong! I have gotten some information on SAnon, and am really scared to go, I am in ic and my wh is preparing with his CSAT for his entrance into treatment program, it seems we are doing what we need for r but im not sure i want r? i have told him i am completely undecided, but he acts like its not even possible that i wont be around when he gets out. UGGG i am such a mess!
So an update. WH did go to a SA meeting, the most conservative and secular one here. And he said it was good, not as preachy as he thought. And he said that the community at large generally accepts that their members choose a home group for regular meetings, but occasionally reach out to other groups for additional support and to get different perspectives as needed. So he could for example choose SLAA as his home group and but still go to SA on occasion if he's struggling or needs more viewpoints. All very good. Wish I had options like that, I pretty much just have S-Anon, four of which are 25 miles from me and a fifth one 50 miles from me.
Today I will be taking the kids somewhere fun. They will play and eat mac and cheese at the cafe, something I rarely let them order when we go out. I'm trying really hard to reward their good behavior, especially since I am not as patient and am a lot more negative than I used to be. And with any luck I will get to sit in a comfy chair and read while they play. I want that part of my life back, the fun with the kids and a little time to myself at the same time.
Thinking of you ladies...
I plan on giving my H boundaries.
A yr ago August when I thought all I was dealing with was an A, I did state that I will not tolerate 3 in a M. That he was free to go but know that there may not be a coming back.
I stated at that time, I don't share!
He denied anything was going on. So, I really didn't get a remorseful, admission of anything.
I just kept the front of what I would not accept along those line. I refused to go back and forth and try to convince him that he was doing something inappropiate.
Well, as I was watching for the OW, I was seeing a trend to ABS. I knew that H would watch porn but I had no idea how frequently he went to these places. One in particular had me worried so hired a PI and found out that this place is set up for various scenerios..video arcades where you can view and masterbate in private or open a partition between booths and jerk off together watching each other or your videos. The partition does not allow you to see the person just the necessary body part in action!
There is another part to the building which can only be accessed from the back of the building and that is where there are glory holes, where you can stick your piece in the hole and someone can give a bj.
Okay..just wanted to give you an picture of what I recently discovered.
Just so you know I did confront H about the place and he is insulted that I thought he was gay. I never said he was. I did say that this place is unacceptable and I have a problem with it. He has not been forthcoming about what he has been doing there other than viewing their videos.
Okay...so now I am in limbo land. He is not remorseful, cause he claims he did nothing wrong and that I should know him after 25 years together.
I am not buying any of the BS that he has thrown my way which is mostly anger and gaslighting, blameshifting.
I have been reading with interest HNF posts regarding boundaries and consequences.
I have come to realize that I need to re-vist my boundaries, consequences.
I am thinking that even tho he is not willing to admit anything that I still need to express these things to him.
This is where you come in for me, if you can.
This is a listing of my boundaries:
NO 3 in the M
NC with OW
NO more lies and lies by omission
NO more ABS
No more Porn
Conditions for possible R:
meet with a SCAT for an evaluation for SA
full disclosure regarding OW and ABS and any other activities if any
phone on at all times
(I have his account info so I haven't asked for any PW cause I already can access those things)
Bear with me cause this is my rough outline and trying to get my thoughts together.
My consequences are fuzzy as far as the porn/ABS, lies..but I am clear that I will not tolerate any A and or contact with OW that I am aware of at this time, that is a dealbreaker for me
UGH...please tell me what I am missing here..give me 2x4's..give me hugs...LOL...give me what you got!!K?
thanks for listening
Your boundaries look fantastic! Don't let him make you deviate from what YOU want and deserve in YOUR marriage.
I have all of yours and some of mine: Its not okay for him to get angry when you confront him or demand that he act like he's married. Its not okay for him for force you to have sex w/him or make you feel uncomfortable. He must start/stay in recovery for me to stay in the marriage.
Remember, he has to want to recovery for himself and you can't control him or his choices.
I really wanted my husband to choose recovery but I have waited 2yrs and he didn't choose recovery.
Consequences were NC, no hugs.
Continue to do things for yourself. Take a hot bath, get your nails done, whatever gives you joy in your life. I know its hard. Above all, keep yourself safe. If you are still sexually active with him, use protection. Get tested.
Sending you strength to stick to those boundaries!!!
although it may seem that I stood up to him, it really has sporadic at best. I can't keep a dialogue going for too long..especially when he starts the gaslighting and denying. I just can't entertain that and lose my words..so I just back off. I find it is better for me to just say what I have to say and then try to let it sit in his head.
I really haven't even told him I think he might be SA yet. I did mention that I felt his porn has esculated. He thinks I mean he has a library that has grown!
I just said, The type of porn has changed.
I want to ask him to think about the possiblity of going to a SCAT to get an evaluation. However, my concern is that he won't tell the truth.
As we all know...it has to be their decision, their path. I can't be his mother and tell him what to do or say. How much easier if the SCAT would say okay...let me talk to your wife first!! LOL..Well, maybe they do ask to speak to the spouse? Do you know?
Anyhow, My goal for myself is to not confront but to state my concerns, my boundaries and then let go and let God as they say in Alanon...
I am already detaching mentally and preparing myself for the worst. What do I have to lose at this point? If he doesn't want to get help, I never had him to begin with right? I had an illusion of him.
Well, funny you should mention bath..I am thinking of taking one when I get home from work.
We haven't had sex for about a month now...this is the longest we have ever went in our 25 yrs together!!
I am sure he is waiting for me to make the first move. He twisted my words about the kinky ABS saying that I said he was gay and then on to say..well, you are saying I don't do it for you anymore.
I have not made either statements and I am proud that I don't get sucked in to the junk talk. I just repeat my words of concern and that I never said either.
In a way I am glad sex is off the table for me although I was angry the other day cause I was missing the old him and our great sex life. I was angry that I am denied that.
I am not sure how to handle that right now. I hear you about the protection. Do I just buy it and say wear it? Or tell him and let him decide to buy it?
UGH...what a fine mess this is!!
Hang in there all!!
It is like everything comes crashing down at the same time. The confusion, the disbelief, the needyness, the love...it all gets so jumbled.
The most horrible feeling for me is the helplessness.
I had no say so in any of it and now I have to figure out where and what I want out of my life.
One day I was happy and going about my merry little ole way and bam..the next day I was crushed.
I felt like the air was being sucked out of me.
Yeah, it is normal. It is so fu*kn normal. Yeah, it is shitty to be normal..huh?!
Well, I am not in the best of moods right now myself so I am jumping on the pity party for us.
It is 2:30 am and I can't sleep. I was trying for once to sleep without taking anything. I can count on one hand the days I could fall asleep without some sort of aid. This bothers me! I finally had to get up and take something.
Well, please take care of yourself. It takes time to sort out one feeling from another.
You did nothing wrong. It is just his broken-ness. None of us could predict our situations.
It takes little baby steps on our part to be able to stand on our own. So, take it easy on yourself. Do one good thing for yourself each day....no matter how small.
I think withdrawing affection is fair too. Sex is off the table for us, given the 90 day sobriety and waiting for the second hiv test.
I feel anger, sadness, love, and hatred every day. It's normal. So is second guessing every single thing you do and have done.
One day at a time.
Last night SAWH & I went to dinner. I don't remember what exactly we were discussing but he said (teasingly) 'does your husband let you go out so often?' to which I automatically zipped out "I don't have to ask permission to go out" and he looked at me like I slapped him. He was trying to play his favorite fantasy game with me- picking up an unknown woman for sex, a disgusting game I refuse to play. When I said what I did, he shut it down immediately. What I said is an authentic reply of what I was thinking & how I feel- but I didn't think about what I said or plan it out. It just popped out. And thank goodness it did, because my answer shut him down. At least until later.
The game itself (picking up an unknown woman in a bar for sex), is gross & disgusting & I refuse to play it with him. IDK if he's already done this & wants to do it again (possible, likely) or is trying to prevent acting out this way by involving me in his 'game' (who the F knows). As far as I'm concerned, he's upping the acting out by trying to use me in his horrible game.
Anyway, back to my story. After dinner we went over to the mall because I wanted to buy some jeans. I haven't bought myself new jeans in a few years & I've gained weight & I need pants & I want to look more up to date. I had in mind what I wanted & I told him I would pay for my new pants out of my account. So we're in the store & he picks out sexy panties & some cute camisoles as well as a few other pieces (complaining because I won't wear skirts as short as he likes). He tells me he'll buy them as long I understand that there'll be 'quid pro quo', his exact words, 'when we get home.' In other words, he expects sex if he buys them for me. I'm shocked at his words, although not surprised, and I decide to ignore him. I mean, we're in public and I don't want to make a scene in the store. He buys his choices & I buy mine.
Fast forward to home. He wants me to wear a pair of satin rhumba panties- very cute, nice fabric. I mean, I love the panties; it's his attitude and expectations that piss me off. Anyway, we get into it over what he wants me to wear. I feel like his whore- he paid for stuff and now I 'owe' him. I tell him the quid pro quo remark made me angry and I didn't bring it up in the store because I didn't want to make a scene. His response is typical and was expected: I don't have a sense of humor, he said it in jest. I told him I didn't think it was funny, that when he says things to me I believe what he says- he repeats my lack of humor & makes other remarks about me personally that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. He goes to bed. And I go out to the livingroom to wait for DS to return from voice lessons.
I'm returning some of his 'choices' later. How in the hell am I going to manage living with him until I can afford to leave??
P.S. Will post on boundaries later today.
I will always love him. I have anger and actually talk this out in the car like I am talking to him. I have disgust, the list goes on. These feelings last for a while.
I decided I am done. I probably could have gone the distance if he would admit something but he doesn't. Also, he is abusive and mean to me in front of my kids. Absolutley NO MORE!!!!
Sabina, you should see what you could get from a D. I was taken aback that I get 40 percent of his Net in my state. Anything to get the Hell out!
Cheeta: I haven't had sex with him in over a year. Waaaay pas the 90 day mark. He has seen its not me its HIM. He never initiated....the last 2.5 years. When they are active, they don't need you and have a moral conflict. If you do have sex, YES ask him to put on a condom. YOUR safety is priority. Yes, I miss the good sex we had and regular too. Guess what, my thought is that I have been a part of his contained addiction for 20 years!! I look back and see patterns.
His extremely uncomfortable facing my pain -- and his shame. He is not in counseling despite my repeated requests he do so. Last night he called me a "stupid fucking cow". I can not live with this abusive behavior and despite having no real resources to move out, I need to do so.
My sanity is at stake here and my depression is deepening. Take good care all. Thanks for listening...
[This message edited by Ghostwalker at 1:25 PM, November 4th (Friday)]
So sorry to hear your pain incresing by being so abused! Please take care of yourself, remind yourself of the good things about you and try hard not to listen to that crap. I know its way easier said than done and I by no means am close to believing the good about me, my relationship has done a number on my self worth and esteem, but we are all here together. Keep posting and we will keep reading and supporting each other.
I seem to be posting alot, but it helps me feel better sort of. My anger is still close to exploding, but now I feel guilty for being so angry at an addict.. I am so sick of hearing its not his fault, he is sick, he needs help blah blah blah... I know he is sick, but its no excuse, he has been telling me he has a porn problem for years, ignoring me and my needs for years, lying about his treatment and counseling for years, it was his choice not to get the proper help and be honest right? Again I am venting....
Anyway, back to you. I'd get the hell out for a while. By whatever means necessary, declare a minivacation, visit family/friends, something. Stay in a hotel in town, whatever it takes. Just up and go, and tell him you need some time away, you need time to figure stuff out. Is it possible at all?
Hurt, hang in there. As soon as he's in treatment and you have time to process it all without him in front of you, things will come together. It will start making sense, and you can focus on what YOU need.