Ghost, so you know he's doing stuff he shouldn't. So the question is what do you want to do now? Would collecting info by keylogger help you in your sitch? For example, if you are in a fault state, it might be worth investing in one or a PI (depending on how the laws are in your state) to collect the evidence to get the fault divorce. But if it won't help you in divorce, think about whether it will help you in any other way. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking no.
If he's not remorseful, not willing to do the work, not willing to accept his addiction and address it, IDK that collecting any more evidence is going to help YOU. Now if you were trying to R, and he was cooperative, and he had agreed to transparency, maybe then it might make sense to continue to snoop to verify he is doing what he says he is. Otherwise your time is better spent getting your ducks in a row for D, or getting IC, going to an S-Anon meeting, that kind of thing. Or getting ready for the T-day dinner
That's not to say you couldn't confront if you wanted to. I do confront when I find stuff, but we have an agreement that I check the history, and he knows I know how to tell if it's deleted and I will assume the worst if he has. If you wanted to confront just to let him know you know (because you know he's going to lie about it) and to give him the opportunity to be transparent, or whatever, that might be helpful but honestly I wouldn't have high hopes. He's likely to just show you who he really is, and let's face it an active addict is a very ugly person indeed.
((hugs)) Your situation just sucks all around.
I am not "short"! I am petite like you!!
My H always looks at BIG women porn. So you can imagine the hit I took when he said told counselor with me there that he feels like I am not enough and thought he might want bigger, more height wise.
That day..I was angry and he was very, very remorseful about making such a statement.
All I could come back with was that I didn't realize he was so shallow. I then, told him..we could cut him off at the knees and then HE would be a better fit for ME!!
UGH..the things they say!!
Hath...I hear you about being worth it. The problem I had with it in the past (and I never could figure out the word I was looking for at that time) was I linked my ExH behavior to my worth.
Example..if he didn't stop doing such and such...well he just didn't love me and I must not be worth it.
So, when it hit me about the worth thing. I had to cry for all the past issues and realize that is part of MY problem..doing the linking.
I know I am worth it but I don't want to have to remind or tell someone that I am that. I feel like I might be setting myself up to failure if I link that up somehow.
Just like we say we can't control for fix things for them.
I want the feeling to come from him on his own.
I want him to know I am worth everything and more from him!
If he can't/won't get that..I guess I will have to move on.
I don't know if I am making sense here but that is what hit me the other day. Especially, when I thought back to my first H and how I would think if I got hit by a car, or really sick..that would make him realize that he had everything to lose.
I don't feel that way with my H..that I need to get that message to H...that I need to grab his attention that way. But, boy did that bring up alot of old feelings for me and how I need to remind myself, that I am worth it.always was/is.
I just wish that it came naturally for him.
PS: thank you all for your hugs and support. It means more than you know..well, you all DO know.
[This message edited by cheetabump at 10:06 AM, November 12th (Saturday)]
Our sex life had one year during this horrible 20 year span where it was "normal" That is frequent, stimulating and reciprocal. He had landed a job that made him feel good about himself. Of course, when it began to unravel, so did his behavior toward me, in all things. His OP of choice were younger taller (who isn't) The fact that they were also low life whores is besides the point. I frequently am pi$$ed that he WASTED my best years. I used to LIKE sex
We still haven't figured that all out. On the advice of his CSAT we will soon begin to work through a guided approach workbook and see if we can. Before I die.
Ironically I am not a petite flower, I am a larger than life Texan, LOL. I am six feet tall and the ideal weight for such a height. I lived in Los Angeles for a year a long time ago and once had to stand in the background with a bunch of models on a TV show, and let me tell you it is not the best feeling in the world to stand next to models and feel like a sasquatch next to their little selves. You would think models are so tall and thin, they are just sort of tall and morbidly skinny. I have since redirected my inner thoughts to think of myself as Vegas Showgirl proportions and not sasquatch.
Anyway, I doubt any of my WH's "conquests" were anything like me, thank god, because I don't want him associating my body type with his SA. And I'm rather glad my particular body type is not especially prevalent, so I am more special.
Anyway, they are lucky to have us at all. So there.
Hang in there my friends. And lean on each other.
After he calmed down, I brought up a medical site listing the signs of an SA. I asked him to please take a minute to read them. He did -- and FINALLY admits to fitting most of the criteria.
I asked him if he would be willing to seek therapy for his addiction and he said he would. I told him it was the only way I would agree to stay with him. With the busy holiday season ahead, I'm sure he'll find a reason or excuse to "shelf" this. But I can't live this way. I am an emotional and physical wreck!!! I just so want him to give me a reason to stay. How can I still love this man????
Thanks for listening, SI sisters. Send prayers and good thoughts my way. I need them...
And I totally get the holiday crunch to avoid crap. WH is using that to avoid going back to a CSAT for IC. Honestly I don't care if he goes back to the first one or a different one, just want him to go. He says with the class, homework, and weekly 12 step on top of the workload he gets at the end of the year - there's no way he can do it. But I just put it together in my head, the class requirement for sobriety ends mid-Dec, and that is about the time for us to take the second round of HIV tests which was my initial requirement of abstinence. I'm going to tell him tonight I am not pursuing any sexual contact at all, no matter how slight, until he is in IC with a recovery plan and has the CSAT's blessing (as with me as well). That will kick his ass, LOL. I don't see it as working his program or controlling his behavior, I see it as a means of proactively protecting myself.
Our next class assignment is about our sexuality and learning what healthy sexuality is. Part of it is birth control plans, which I assume we need to share.
So I have never disclosed in group I made WH get a vasectomy as part of my boundaries/requirements. Not that I have anything against sharing that info in group, but...there's a lady who just entered her third trimester in the class with #3.
One of the main reasons I insisted on the vasectomy is that I could not deal with the aftermath of discovery, recovery etc AND deal with pregnancy and a newborn at the same time. It is hard enough dealing with it without what pregnancy and nursing does to you. This lady is basically living my worst nightmare, quite honestly.
Hers is a different sitch than mine. Her kids are older and more spread out than mine. #3 was not planned. Getting pregnant in the past was not especially easy for them, I gather, for various reasons. She really struggled with being pregnant when this all went down and still struggles with how the future is going to play out.
Whereas WH and I are very fertile and got each planned kid on the first try. Our kids are very young and close together. I am in my 40s, I have no business having more kids as it is a different ballgame at this age than in your 20s and 30s, especially if you are already chasing young kids to begin with.
Basically, the vasectomy is to prevent me from living my worst nightmare - to get PG this late in the game, with some many young kids, on top of dealing with his SA. And to avoid potentially dealing with him impregnating anyone else, quite frankly. He does not need to have any more kids, with me or anyone else. He has more on his plate than he can handle, honestly. And I said this before, I know it was wholly unreasonable as a condition/boundary to R in any circumstance, but I discussed it with WH and he was willing to do whatever it took to gain my trust and make me feel safe.
I don't know how to discuss this in group. I don't want to lie, but I don't want to drive the pregnant lady insane either, cause her unnecessary pain. Her story is most similar to mine in the group. It would be difficult to not draw direct comparisons no matter how I explain it.
Any guidance would be appreciated.
Hugs all around, especially to Ghost in the aftermath of her confrontation.
The discussion of worth really rings true to me. I recognize that I'm doing this still, judging my worth, the worth of my efforts in the M, by SAWH's responses and (lack of) effort. I need to stop, but that's easier said than done. I'm feeling like a failure all the way around, truthfully, mostly due to Friday's events and info.
I found out that I have a mass and inflamed tissue in my bladder. I'll have a biopsy and tissue removal on the Monday after T-Day (28th). I'm feeling like I'm letting myself down on all fronts- emotional and physical. Normally I'd bring this up in OT or general (and I still might), but I just.. I'm struggling with this. I'm a healthy person, other than birthing my kids and having scar revision I've never been seriously ill. Ever.
I don't want to be physically vulnerable with SAWH. The emotional $h!t is hard enough, never mind adding in other stuff. That was my first reaction; the second was even if it *is* cancer (and I won't know for a while) I'm still planning to leave, moving forward with my plan. My third reaction was that perhaps this is the Lord's plan- pushing me firmly in the direction of prioritizing self care- emotionally and physically. That I need to start putting myself first. Take optimal care of both my physical and emotional self. And lastly it did cross my mind that this is a direct result of the stress and upheaval in my life during the last two years. Then I went to work.
*SIGH* SAWH is an RN & can provide me with excellent care if indeed I turn out to have cancer. I'm just uncomfortable with allowing this. Not only that I don't want him to relay any of my personal health info to his EAOP. You remember, the 'relationship' he denies resuming. The woman he holds a torch for.
"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow
"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."
Just be gentle and honest about it. It's your truth and your boundary. Her reaction isn't yours to control- the therapist will be there to facilitate. Our CSAT emphasized to us that each of our situations were unique and that our reactions would vary greatly. Our group had 2 pregnant women in it, neither were planned pregnancies. It must have been tough..If it helps you any, I completely agree with your reasoning behind this boundary. When I found out about SAWH's activities one of the first things I thought was "thank God he had a vasectomy". So good for you!
Hath, thanks for your response. WH has already had STD testing (negative, thank God!) and has given me his passwords. It's how I track him.
Run your sitch by the therapist. It shows how caring you are to worry about the other's feelings.
Hugs and strength to all...
Wow, you guys have so much to deal with. Know your in my thoughts and prayers. Good job Ghost, with getting him to read the sa stuff, Hath I agree with others,just be honest and gentle, and Sabina, I really hope your medical issues are ok.
Personally I am getting anxious, my sawh goes into treatment program in 6 days. I am both excited and terrified. I am very worried for my kids, as this will already be hard Christmas, being our first family Christmas since the murder of my twin nephews who were also my daughters best friends, and now he will be h
gone too, and it will be just the three of us. We have never had a CHristmas in all her 16 years without those boys or him... thank you all for listening. and thanks for your posts. Take care!
Do you have other family or friends in the area to spend Xmas with? Surround yourself with all the love and support you can find. You need it and deserve it. Hugs to you, sweetie...
Texting other women to provide support? No way! Stay strong, lady and don't be afraid to set boundaries. Good luck!
Unfortunately no these are not sa mtgs. He attends all 12 step mtgs as well as a male only sa group. Fortunately his csat did agree with me and told him under no circumstances should an sa be leaning on members of the opposite sex for emotional support. Sawh agreed to send a mass txt to the women with me present to explain that these relationships are innappropriate. His counselor helped him formulate what to say. Thx for the feedback
Sabina, I hope it turns out to be something minor. It's good to know you do have support even if it's not. Prayers and goodvibes your way.
I'm not going to be able to go to my S-Anon meeting tomorrow. My kid is still sick. She's on meds tho, so probably will be well enough to be a PITA tomorrow. I'm disappointed I don't have an alternate meeting I can go to instead. I'll just have to wait.
He didn't deny reading it, and surprise surprise, he's now deleted his entire web history. I never printed any of it out, and now all the proof I had is gone forever.
He claims he wants to start "fresh" and the past is gone. He said I can continue to track him from this day forward -- that the "now" is all that matters. ARGHHHH!!!!
I told him I thought deleting his history was self-serving and self-protective. Again, putting his needs before mine.
He said he wants the opportunity to prove he is trustworthy again and to give him another chance.
I don't know what to believe, ladies, what do you think????
I've been in this place many times, watching my husband destroy proof and start over. I think at this point, you just need to observe his actions going forward. If he does decide to do the work and get better, you won't need the proof. And if he doesn't, well then sadly you'll probably find more proof.
I'm curious about what your husband said about all your posts - did he show any remorse or reaction to all the deep feelings you've expressed here?