I am so sorry that your wh is still doing that to you. I went to my first SAnon meeting tonight, and that was a blessing. I know it is a blessing that my husband has made his commitment to treatment and our marriage, I really do and I hope that even though I am struggling so much that it can provide hope to others to know that it is possible for them to come around and eventually get help. It's also a wakeup call to me, we all dream of this day, we all look forward to it thinking it will be the best thing and it is but it is also hard but there is hope and it the sadness wont last forever. Thanks for reminding me to think of the good. I needed that. And thanks for the hugs I need those too.
I did fairly well for the most part of the day...until...H seemed to shut down.
DS deep fried the turkey and got oil on the brick patio. H then decided to go to Home depot to get this stuff to help soak up the oil. I told him the stores are closed. He said...DO YOU KNOW for sure?!! UGH..no I did not know for sure but I knew that dinner was going to be served soon and felt like this is his "baby piss" mood that I just didn't want to deal with.
That seem to set the tone off with H. I decided that we would just start eating without him if he wasn't back in time! He did come back and the stores were closed!
Then, to top it off..he keeps silent during dinner when we have new guests for the first time at our house.
DD is dating a nice man with 2 daughters. We were meeting these daughters for the first time.
I was hustling and busting my a** all day (no for a few days actually) to have a nice dinner and he acts like an a**.
After dinner he retreated to his man cave..which he has been spending more and more time there. Detached from the family. Even if I am not there, the kids are upstairs..a bomb could go off and he wouldn't know.
Okay..so everyone leaves. DS and DD decide they are doing black Friday and ask me to go. So off we went at midnight..the 3 of us hooping and hollaring like a bunch of kids cause it is our very first black friday we have went to!! LOL..it was so funny. I didn't even go downstairs to tell H we were leaving.
I get home and he is in bed. I get ready and putting lotion on and he wakes up saying what is going on over there? I say what? He says the bed is bouncing. I can tell he thought I was taking care of myself if you know what I mean!
Well, today (Friday) he is mad as hell. We have a big fight on the phone cause he is telling me he will NOT live like this..not having sex, me spying on him, me not trusting him,me saying he is gay(no I didn't but going to ABS, that primary are men hooking up...does make me wonder what the hell is going on) and then more or less threatening me he will "get his" if need be..if I am not giving it to him.
I was crying but also mad. He will not take any responsibility for the position our relationship is in now. He says that I could find someone better than him.
Oh please, help me get my head on straight with this blameshifting shit!
All I could say to him is that I will not talk to him unless he is respectful and no cursing at me. He said I am not cursing at you, I am cursing the situation.
I said, that I believe he is more angry at himself and taking it out on me.
He agreed and said he is mad at himself for telling me anything 2 yrs ago when he was expressing he might be in midlife crisis and didn't understand or know what was going on with him. That he should have kept his mouth shut and tried to work it out on his own.
When I questioned him exactly what was he trying to work out..he would just bark at me. Can't remember exactly but bottomline is he wouldn't say...was shifting the convo all over the place. Then he says, I made up my mind and to get a divorce and get it over with.
So, I said I am ending the call cause I can't deal with this type of convo.
I cried but managed to get myself together for work and low and behold he was sitting like he always does waiting for me. I really didn't expect that and got there really late..just enough time to get in to the job.
I said, I didn't expect you here..he says, why not? Really?? Gee..you scream divorce so what am I to think?
Well, I didn't even touch the subject of SA!! LOL...not really laughing but I did tell him that we haven't been able to talk and that we really need to do this and that I needed to express some concerns I have but I can't feel safe in talking when he is not taking responsibility and hearing me.
So, that is todays event...It is just a gist and I am so tired and worn from everything. I know it stops when I say stop but I just don't know when to say stop. It is clear to me that he is scared shit and he is smoke screening it with his anger but I am not sure he will even be willing to explore that aspect of SA.
Any words of comfort or wisdom...I guess 2x4 again (wish I would be strong enough to say F*ck it..Im outta here but I am not...25 years!! 25 years!)
S. Kat ~ your solid advice to cheeta also spoke to me. Since my WH is not admitting to, nor working on his SA behavior, I will most likely move out in January and file.
I am having a visceral reaction having to sleep with him over the holiday, since my visiting children occupy the other bedrooms. He's happy as a clam, oblivious to my anxiety and pain. I am having constant panic attacks -- trying to play it cool for my kids.
Hugs and strength to all who are hurting here...
If you know, or are pretty sure, your partner is a sex addict, I think we understand their main problem is feeling rejected and a perceived lack of love and support? So to practice 180 in its entirety would surely just confirm this in their mind? I know, I know, love and support was the main thing I desperately needed for myself as the BS but my WH wasn’t able to help himself never mind me. Disclosure wasn’t his choice, he was found out, and he fought for months to keep as much as he could secret, still does. My WH was ready to run. He wanted to run from all the pain.... his pain and my pain. It was all too overwhelming for him and in those early days he seriously considered suicide. From disclosure, and the ongoing drip-feed, I felt all those feelings that so many have described on here, betrayed, hurt, unwanted, unloved, foolish, and my own self-esteem plummeted to zero. But I refused to believe he didn’t really still love me. I instinctively knew prostitutes, sex clubs and then hooking up with a totally inappropriate OW to visit sex clubs as a couple, wasn’t a life he wanted. It certainly wasn’t making him happy and although I knew he wasn’t happy I didn’t know why at the time and it took a year and a half of escalated behaviour before it imploded and he was found out. I’d always guessed he’d acted out inappropriately with others for years, and in his two previous marriages, but I naively believed we were untouchable. (I’ve been married twice before too).
I was lucky (?) enough to have always known the FoO of my WH and knew that he’d struggled all his life with feelings of rejection. I didn’t know then how it could spectacularly develop though – maybe if I’d known what to read and how to help, or even realised I could have helped, I could have stopped it happening but I thought my love was enough.
On disclosure I stepped up, battled daily with my own hurt and concentrated on him. I was only able to do this because, to his credit, he agreed instantly to my two conditions – NC with OW and he must get outside help. We floundered for about three months with unsuitable counsellors until he was finally directed to a therapist specifically for sex addiction. During all this time to say I struggled would be a huge understatement. I cried all the time. My way of taking care of myself was reading. I read as much as I could to understand the problem and I read “Your Sexually Addicted Spouse” over and over. I refuse to accept the term co-addict for any BS and this book helped me so much. How can all that literature out there tell the BS that it’s absolutely not your fault, nothing to do with you and so on and then label you a co-addict? I also leant heavily on a good friend who I could trust and was intelligent enough to understand but was able to remain independent and keep me from panic and from saying/doing things I would regret. She was never critical, just listened and was there when I needed someone to cry to and keep things in perspective for me. This was hugely helpful for me as there is no specific sex counselling in our area for anybody never mind spouses of. WH has to travel at great cost/time each week for his therapy and it just wouldn’t be practical for me to attend therapy for BS of sex addiction too. In those early days my WH said, like BaxtersBFF said to his BS, that I needed IC. So I went for a few sessions, but like gerrygirl’s IC, my IC also implied that I was fine and that the problem was with my WH.
My WH has been in therapy for ten months and I think I can now say we are on the right road... together. I am so proud of him for his determination to face up to everything and put things right. I feel calmer now than I ever would have thought possible a year ago, but that’s not to say there isn’t still work to do. For me the triggers are still there and so are remarkably vivid pictures of his past which still bring me to tears and of course trust is still to be worked on. For him it’s still difficult to discuss certain subjects like......”feelings” and he has to work on “connecting” but we are still married and the love is still there between us. Our love is strong. I do know though that if I hadn’t found it in myself to show him that I still loved him despite everything he’d done, he’d have gone....one way or another.
I emphasised to him quite early on that it would have been a lot easier for me to D than to work through all the pain. I said over and over that I wasn’t afraid to be on my own but I stayed because I truly loved him and understood. I didn’t stay through any sense of obligation but I chose to stay because I loved him. I think I must have said it enough times for him to eventually start believing me!
I’ve probably rambled quite a bit but hope that it makes sense to somebody out there and might even be helpful to someone.
Take care of yourselves!
I wrote a post this morning to accidently hit something which deleted the whole thing!! I hate that!
Now, I can't remember quite what I wrote.
I want to thank those that responded to my previous post.
I stay in the M at this point because I am not ready to say stop. I know it all stops when I say stop but I am just not clear on everything to say stop.
I see the pain my H is in. We have not 25 as I keep posting but in actuality 27 years together now and this is not the man I married. I lost him about 2-3 yrs ago.
I see the anger as his wall of protection. He has not hit bottom but he isn't totally gone. I just have to keep my sanity in all of this.
I am proud to say even after our arguement, I was able to get to work and function just fine there. I guess I am getting better at compartmentalizing. BUT it does make me feel good and sane when I can go about my business and realize that my world will not collapse. Don't get me wrong I will be devastated if we break up but until that happens I can put one foot in front of another.
I can't walk away until I know I have given my all to the M. I know that I can't make him get treatment but I haven't even told him how I feel about the porn yet and that I would like him to be evaluated by a SCAT.
I am not taking anything he says at this point seriously and letting it affect my self worth.
I am grateful for SI and now the knowledge I have on SA.
I can see now that H has been basically a loner and has trouble trusting people. He has always been this way but it is more pronounced now and since he turned 50. It was like a bomb went off in his head. I know now, it is the porn esculating and of course he is caught up and doesn't realize how addictive it can be. He has been going to IC for a bit over a year now and I do see baby...I mean baby steps in his behavior but his IC is not SA trained I so that part is not being addressed at all.
He asked if we could talk this weekend. We are off Sun and Mon. Any suggestions how to present SA stuff without sounding like critisism or put downs?
I think that as spouses of SA, one of the biggest things you can do is to get into a recovery for yourself. Not to save the marriage, not to prompt your SA to change, but to heal for YOU. The plane is crashing, put on your oxygen. Whether or not your SA gets into a recovery is up to them. You cannot force them to do anything, because unless they hit their rock bottom (as SK mentioned) and want to truly change for themselves, not to change to save a marriage, recovery will not work for them. We have to take care of ourselves.
I don't see this as 180 behavior, but more as getting ourselves healthy. You cannot "love" a SA into recovery. It just does not work that way with addiction. Yes, it is an intimacy disorder, so it seems that love and acceptance are an important part of recovery, but only after the SA has truly embraced it. Otherwise it IS behaving in a codependent manner to think that you can "love" them, or cajole them any which way into recovery. You can provide them the information regarding SA, but that isn't going to be some sort of magic bullet. They have to want change so desperately that they would be willing to turn their lives inside out to get there.
Recovery is so intensive and time focused. The SA has to really want it. It has to be a wholehearted commitment to 12 step, CSAT, and behavioral changes on so many levels. I understand that some of you don't want to lose marriages, stability, etc. But the SA already took all of that away from you; what you have now is a facade. I know that when my H hit rock bottom, all we had was a very empty shell of a marriage. It had been lonely for so long, that when we separated (for 3 months) it was very frightening and lonely, but also liberating.
Recovery is terribly hard work, for us, too. I know that doesn't seem fair. We didn't cause this, but we do have to deal with taking care of the fallout for us and our children. I don't mean this to sound harsh, but spinning your wheels thinking that something YOU do is going to change things is futile. Until the SA is ready to admit their addiction and ready to make a complete commitment for themselves to get better, it isn't going to happen. My H first admitted over 10 years ago that he was a SA, but that was not his rock bottom moment. His rock bottom moment finally came when the kids found out and the police came knocking on our door. SK is right, some SA never do reach that point. Do I wish I would have left sooner and worked on my own recovery before the traumatic moment? Of course! I had to forgive myself for that. I did not understand SA. I did not realize that the escalation would become so dangerous (and yes, I had watched it progress through the years). If I could do it over again, I would have worked on recovery sooner for ME and for my kids.
Bottom line, take care of YOU. YOU are worth it! While living with an active addict or one not in recovery (white knuckling) you must put yourself and the well being of your children first. Take care of yourself, especially during this stressful holiday season.
Hugs to all.
I hope all is well with you, and that the test results come back in the best way that they can (no cancer!). Take extra special care of yourself. Thinking of you. Big Hugs!
Great posts. Its is so true that to practice 180 can have adverse affects when dealing with an SA. I have been fortunate enough that my wh is inpatient treatment for a week now, before that outpatient until he could get in. It is excruciating, hard, painful etc, but I have started to see first hand his inner pain, shame, humiliation and complete feeling of rejection and loneliness. I have also been fortunate to have his counselor meet with us both which is not normally done during treatment. We hope to continue that. It was through his counselor, and my first SAnon meeting that I have had my eyes open to this disease. And to have compassion for my husband rather than anger. Yes he hurts me but he doesn't want to, he hates himself for it. Practicing full 180 would have increased our problem. What I've learned this past month has changed me. There is hope and there is recovery even iff its just for you. SAnon is a great place to start and csat is another.
This morning when I was checking WH's secret email there was a message from one of his "hookups" asking him if he wanted to meet again. In reading the message trail it indicated that the SA has been in full force for longer than I imagined and that at least with this guy my WH had more than one encounter.
It's just such a sucker punch. WH has been doing everything right including talking whenever I need to and letting me have whatever emotions I need to have even if it is rage at him for what he's done. When I told him about the email this morning he asked me if I wanted to respond and tell the guy to "fuck off." I haven't done anything.
We then sat down and talked about the SA some more and what we needed to do to recover. He admits that he isn't putting as much into his recovery as he should be. I pointed out that he's not putting near as much effort in as he did into getting sober 20 years ago. He admitted that this is true and apologized for making me feel that I am less important. He claims that just having the truth out is a huge relief to him. He says the worst part was not feeling like he could tell me what was going on because he was so ashamed and grossed out by what he was doing. We've been friends for 34 years and I thought we could tell each other anything.
We had a really good talk and I really feel like he is hearing me and that he truly is committed to recovery, but it is still so painful. I was only monitoring the email account to see if his ExW would try to contact him again. I really wasn't expecting this.
I'm so tired of pain and tears.
I have had you ladies on my mind this weekend. Sabina, hope your results continue to show promise. Ghost, I hope you and your children survived the weekend with little damage. Hurt, I hope you can continue to see the positive as WH receives treatment and you can finally focus on yourself. Cheetah, I'm so glad you both made that first step in communicating, hope there is more to come that is more productive. CheaterMagnet, I am so sorry for that blow, but I hope it is helpful in moving forward. TMY and Mrs. O, I loved the posts and keep trying to beat it in my head, LOL.
I had an ok weekend. WH is acting like a good husband. He's picking up the slack, doing what husbands should be doing anyway, LOL. We had a long talk last night about moving, and in that discussion a lot of other things came up. Wound up in tears and he didn't know what to do, which made it worse. He's doing a lot, has changed a lot. But he's still not, IMHO, in full active recovery. He is struggling with finding a new CSAT, finding time to do it during his crunch time at work. Still hasn't got a permanent sponsor in SA meetings. And still is trying to negotiate the terms of his addiction/treatment, etc. Swears that in January he will be able to go after all of this full force, guns blazing, etc. Full on dry drunk stuff, which a therapist/sponsor would call him on it if he had any.
I'm in a catch 22. Where we live now, is not conducive to healthy relationships for me. Not with WH, not with other people, not for my children to have friends/playdates, and the school disctrict is good for now but rapidly losing money and scores. We made the best decision we could where to live on such short notice 1.5 years ago and it's not working out. So we really need to move. But because the area we live in has such a horrific real estate market, it's horrid to buy because it would take forever, if ever, to earn on an investment and likely sit on the market for many months if you needed to sell. At the same time, it's horrid to rent because you never know if who you are renting from is going to foreclose/etc since the rate is so high here, so there's no security in renting either. WH does not want to rent, he wants to buy, wants to commit to a new life here together. I am skittish to buy, because of the bad market and because it is so soon after discovery and early in recovery. He says we should proceed as if we stay together, but leave enough wiggle room in the budget so he can get a condo/apartment for himself in the event we have to split up. He knows every day with me is a gift, that he could do everything "right" and I could still need to leave him, but also knows I will continue to die inside if we stay here.
It was a hard discussion to have. And honestly the hardest part was crying and not having him comfort me. He feels like he needs my permission, my prompting to allow him to comfort me, support me in my times of need. He is hesitant to touch me or even say much when I show pain. He clearly cannot deal with me suffering so badly, knowing he caused it. And can't discuss it with me, or anything in that whole arena. I am not a cryer, so when it happens (and has happened more in the last four months than in the last 15 years together) he literally doesn't know what to do. The rest of the time, he acts like nothing is wrong and is plenty affectionate, talks things out, etc but when I'm upset he shuts down. He doesn't leave or avoid me when I cry, but it's all he can do to stay. And I don't know what hurts more, that he's like this or that I have to detach anyway so I can get where I need to be.
I have not been visiting here for about a month. No particular reason... mainly because I am probably in a depression and wasting time playing Gnometown on facebook
There is not an awful lot to report. I have refused to get involved in my H's legal difficulties. I absolutely refuse to discuss it with him. His problem, he'll have to figure it out. I have also encouraged him to look for work out of town. I'm hoping that if he were to get a job else where, it would give me the space to better figure out what I want. (Pray for the Boston job.) I've started talking with him somewhat about neutral topics. But I expect nothing and that's pretty much what I get. He goes to meetings everyday and seems to be working some sort of a program. I've adapted a radical honesty attitude towards him. Don't pull any punches about how unhappy I am, how poor our marriage is, etc. I must be a joy to live with
The kids are okay. Since the news of H arrest was on Friday afternoon, the new cycle was over by Monday morning. No one at my job even mentioned it. My daughter's friends have surrounded her, so negative comments have not gotten to her. Her relationship with her father is strained, as it is with my oldest son... again, just one more think H will have to fix.
My family and friends have been really supportive. Mainly, I just don't want to talk about it. So they provide distraction and entertainment.
What really is pissing me off right now is my H family. Once again, they want to sweep this all under the rug. As i think I mentioned before, my MIL found out about her son's arrest on TV. I didn't think it would get to the NYC news. I called her... heard about how angry and embarrassed she was. And guilty... for what, I do not know. So she said she wasn't ready to talk to him. Well, she finally called on Friday. No mention of the arrest, the addiction, the pain he has caused his family, how she feels about this mess... I guess they just talked about the weather! I'm just livid. It's this not talking about important issues that made him so screwed up I just can't have a relationship with these people anymore.
Still have no strong feeling yet about divorce or not to divorce. But if I am not happily married to a healthy person by June 2013 (my daughter's graduation date) I will have my answer.
So, that's where I'm at today. I'm going to try to get caught up and join our little community once again. Peace to all.
Keep your fingers crossed for me, please!
In other news, SAWH has been playing 'model H' and cooking & cleaning & taking care of me. It makes me sick. He set the green bean casserole *ON FIRE* in the broiler (with double the crumbles on top!!). No, I don't know why he put it in the broiler. OMG, it was so funny!! Seriously- flames up into the oven & outside the door. Yeah, so no casserole this year, damnit. Everything else was fine. After that little fiasco, He ate one plate of dinner on Thanksgiving & then sat there with his elbows propped on the table. Didn't really want to participate in the conversation or anything. Stupid stick in the mud.
Anyhow. Other than that, things are pretty much the same here. No big changes.
Thanks for the well wishes, TMY, they are much appreciated.
Will update tomorrow night & let you guys know what happened.
P.S. Edited to add casserole story. I couldn't resist. I'm evil. lol
[This message edited by SabinatheOwl at 9:48 PM, November 27th (Sunday)]
"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow
"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."
And here's hoping Ghost and Sager didn't kill her WH and bury him in the back yard after enduring this weekend.
And here's hoping no one has to bail me out of jail today for snapping off at some random stranger for looking at me funny.
Have a good week ladies! Be kind to yourselves.
[This message edited by hathnofury at 7:34 AM, November 28th (Monday)]
Divorce is like death except no on brings you a casserole and your husband isn't dead, he's f*&ing whores in the parking lot of the 99.
I can only say from my experience and what I've learned here on SI from these wonderful ladies, the addiction can't be conquered alone. My sawh in the beginning used to say that he had addictive personality and could handle it, boy did that blow up on us! A few years later, and with the help of counseling and finding SI 8 weeks ago, I have learned so much. And my sawh finally hit bottom and got help. Get help for yourself and take care!
Good luck Sabina!
Special thanks to Hath for always responding and keeping me grounded and same to Ghost!
I survived Thanksgiving. Hath, you were so right. I could NOT have hosted it. Thank God, my sister offered to do it. It saved my sanity!
I can't address all of you due to time constraints, but I admire each and every one of you and the support provided here. Big, big hugs to each and every one of you. May we all survive and thrive!
So girls (and any guy who may be lurking) give me some support here. WHY, after these 3 years, with a remorseful spouse, who is in active recovery, (he's stepped up things considerably) who let's me vent and responds appropriately, WHY aren't I happy? Why can't I regain ME? the optimistic, glass half-full, people are good, there's beauty in rainy days, ME??? I have only fleeting seconds of feeling happy! The last time I felt happy was June of the year before the August I found out about his stripper fixation, 2008. I used to get up every morning, THRILLED to be alive and healthy and to have a wonderful family...you get the picture.
I cannot regain any of this. I HAVE made the choice to. I was on antidepressants, it didn't help, they just kept me from crying all the time. I hate the way I am.
I have significant FOO issues that I dealt with prior to my marriage. Of course all this crap with him unearthed it. Maybe that's the problem, but they aren't issues I am unaware of so I do.
I simply hate that I have lost who I am.